myuhinny

Devoted Member
Sep 7, 2017
8,364
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Yeah you could just buy one pack of seeds and plant the one and then keep clicking on the other empty plots till you have all plots planted with one seed pack. Maybe later he'll be a drug seller and use his butt as a storage place for many items. Need some lube? Here you go. Want some candy? Here you go.
 

dedi33

Member
Jan 27, 2018
144
223
Please remove those erotic posters from the hotel. Thats so unrealistic to have them in a place like this... Also the fact no characters care about it makes it even weirder
 

myuhinny

Devoted Member
Sep 7, 2017
8,364
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It's a sleazy hotel about the only type of people that go there are people like Laura who need a place to fuck to make a quick buck the motel manager also states that there is only a certain type that uses the motel. Which is why the pool was the way that is was because no one came there to stay they just came there to do a quick fuck and then leave.

I touched up Shelly and she's pretty sexy now.

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Actually it looks like when you buy a pack of seeds and then plant the pack and then click on the other empty plots and plant more when you go to the store to buy more seeds it's show that you have -seeds. So if you bought 1 pack and then plant 7 more when you go to the store to buy more it'll show that you have X-7 seeds for what you own.

Also seems you can no longer get Laura's quest every time you go to talk to her after the initial talking and talking about a job for him whenever you go to meet her she's with that D bitch.
 
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BizeBire

Member
Oct 23, 2017
105
125
As for removing the unneeded mechanics and only add them in when there's content
I didn't mean I think he should remove mechanics, that would obviously be a bad design choice as sometimes one thing breaks another.

I only meant removing some buttons/highlights (on the market map) in order not to confuse people. Or add "WIP" disclaimers.

To get back at your example: to me, adding a button that does nothing (because there's no mechanics/content there yet) is a bit like starting a house construction by placing the doors first.

Then again, I don't know anything about Ren'Py, so adding/removing conversation choices might be a bigger issue than what I imagine it to be.

Being in the situation they are in, you priorities would be Water, Shelter, then Food. They got the shelter and water (temporarily at least), and while they can eat at that restaurant, it's not something that's likely to last... Also, everyone eats as it's necessary for survival. I don't know about you but if I was in that situation and I had some seeds, I'd be looking for some place where I could plant and grow them. Then look to sell the excess for extra cash for anything else I might need. If you think about it, it will actually make sense.
I mean... Yeah. If the setting was: you're on an island with 7 other people and the food in the restaurant is going to run out soon.

But it's not, they're in a city. They just need to find an OK-ish paying job and they'll be much better off than if the protag goes off and starts being a farmer in a monastery. Becoming a janitor will give them better survival chances than hoping that a single plot of farmland will give them enough food to sustain a family.

What you're suggesting is that the dev greatly increase his workload for your pleasure. Put yourself in the shoes of a dev working on an early build of an in-progress game that's going to take you months on end (or even years) to be able to complete....
First of all - isn't that kind of the point of being a game dev, though? To have workload for the pleasure of the gamer?

Secondly - again, it might be my Ren'Py ignorance speaking but most languages I know of have an easy way to store global variables. If that were also the case with Ren'Py, what I would do is store the earning from cleaning the pool in something like a `$poolCleaningEarnings` variable and set it from - what is it now? $20? $50? - to, say $150 so that people can quickly get to whatever content there is. Then, once other money earning avenues are available, I'd switch the variable back to the old value.

Let's also keep in mind that the point of publishing these games in such early stages is twofold: one, to get people interested enough to become patrons. Two, to get as many people as possible finding bugs. Isn't it? Now, if you gate content behind a zillion clicks on the "Wait" button, you're not going to get good QA on the "end-game" content, right?

Would you want to waste your time constantly re-adjusting the balance of things week after week, month after month for each minor change you make or would you rather set a meduim/general aim and adjust it after you get the bulk of what you're planning added in first?
I would definitely opt to adjust the rewards depending on the content in place. But, once again, I've never looked Ren'Py under the hood so it might be unfeasible here, I speak from the perspective of someone who dabbled in C++, C# and is a PowerShell scripter.

Assuming Ren'Py is capable of handling global variables, I would most definitely try adjusting the game per release, to ensure a smooth progression feeling instead of having players mindlessly grind early game for money (by clicking "Wait" a million times and then "clean pool" once per week) to get to the later stages of the test build.

rather than having to constantly divide my attention going back over things I've already done only to have to re-adjust them again in the future
Well, you must have god-like planning powers then, seriously. If you're able to plan everything out, then implement that 1:1 and have a perfectly working project, then I am blown away. The projects I saw so far (be it professional, real world projects, or these adult games here) always had to adjust both expectations and implementation during and after development.

You keep saying that you know it's an early build, yet you're acting like this should be nearly 1/2 done already. There are few options and a lot of waiting BECAUSE it's an early build.
Again, in my opinion, that's poor planning but I might be super wrong, depending on how flexible Ren'Py is. If it requires editing half the code whenever you want to change how much money the player earns from cleaning the pool, then you're obviously 100% right and I'm 100% wrong when I say that currently, at this stage, early game should be much quicker.

As a side-note - I hope I'm not coming off as overly critical. I really hope the project takes off as it seems to be MUCH more ambitious than 99% of the adult games genre. And not only in the renders quality, but the story too.
 
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bosp

Active Member
Jan 3, 2018
647
1,313
It says that because of either an error, you don't have the item, or the content is not yet in the game (or actually usable at that time).
Nope. The item is there and I can click on it - motel menu at the beginning of the game.
Besides the point. Bad UX from the start kills the game.
 

Odysseus1979

Newbie
Mar 9, 2018
50
18
I just downloaded the version 0.0.31c after I finished the tutorial in the hotel room , doesn't do anything , doesn't move around , and I got a bunch of errors that made me quit ... I really had a good feeling about this game but now I see it has tons of negative comments all around the pages I looked . I would understand a couple of errors , it happens in almost every game but here we are talking about a disaster ...It is a pity though , this must be fixed asap !
 

Odysseus1979

Newbie
Mar 9, 2018
50
18
I really enjoyed the story of this game I look forward to new updates.
Congratulations, you did very well.
Good luck
Where did you get your version please ??? I got a version full of errors ...and doesn't do anything after the tutorial is finished .
 

myuhinny

Devoted Member
Sep 7, 2017
8,364
6,359
@

Did you download it from a page back or did you download it from the first post? If you downloaded it from the first post then download it from this link instead.

 

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
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Click the comic book cover in the left box and it should work.
What left box? I click on the high lighted read a book, and select the one available and error or this is not how it supposed to work...
 

DragonWrath

Member
Donor
Jun 17, 2017
244
233
Nope. The item is there and I can click on it - motel menu at the beginning of the game.
Besides the point. Bad UX from the start kills the game.
You actually have an error and it sounds like you were/are running the old pre-fixed version (0.0.30 rather than 0.0.31 or 0.0.32) and I was the one that discovered the "fix" for those. Basically you had to use unren.bat file to extract the archive.rpa file as it wasn't detecting certain things inside correctly, however all those issues (and quite a few others) should be fixed for v0.0.32 so just download that one and try again. You shouldn't have any more issues there, however there may be other errors much later on but idk as I've yet to play the fixed build.

I didn't mean I think he should remove mechanics, that would obviously be a bad design choice as sometimes one thing breaks another.

I only meant removing some buttons/highlights (on the market map) in order not to confuse people. Or add "WIP" disclaimers.
Oh ok, I get what you mean now. That was a misunderstanding on my part as I thought you meant removing it completely, not actually hiding it "under the hood" so to speak.

To get back at your example: to me, adding a button that does nothing (because there's no mechanics/content there yet) is a bit like starting a house construction by placing the doors first.

Then again, I don't know anything about Ren'Py, so adding/removing conversation choices might be a bigger issue than what I imagine it to be.
Actually considering it's (likely to be a) core mechanic item, it would be more akin to the door frame rather than the door itself. It's an engine component and the engine is framework of the game much like the walls, door frames, etc are the frames of a house. At least that's how I view it.



I mean... Yeah. If the setting was: you're on an island with 7 other people and the food in the restaurant is going to run out soon.

But it's not, they're in a city. They just need to find an OK-ish paying job and they'll be much better off than if the protag goes off and starts being a farmer in a monastery. Becoming a janitor will give them better survival chances than hoping that a single plot of farmland will give them enough food to sustain a family.
Well that's just the thing. They are in a(n obviously) large city which means the chance of finding even remotely decent work without any education is very low (I've actually heard of a LOT of jobs are requiring at LEAST a high school diploma, yes even custodial work). As for the sustaining of the family with food from the farm plots, it obviously wouldn't be enough however they don't really have any disposable income due to the food and room literally being paid for by the mother working for the hotel owner. The only real disposable income they currently have comes from the mc cleaning the pool and with jobs being both limited and requiring things like a high school diploma (or G.E.D.), they have to take any chance they get even if it's just farming and selling what they can grow. I will agree that it could use a better introduction/hint/suggestion to the farming stuff but it's still pretty early in development so he's most likely focused more on getting mechanics like that implemented and ready for expansion at a later date (it's honestly what I would do if I was making a game myself... Lay the groundwork/foundations first then work on better content implementations which is what your complaint is actually about if I'm not misunderstanding)



First of all - isn't that kind of the point of being a game dev, though? To have workload for the pleasure of the gamer?

Secondly - again, it might be my Ren'Py ignorance speaking but most languages I know of have an easy way to store global variables. If that were also the case with Ren'Py, what I would do is store the earning from cleaning the pool in something like a `$poolCleaningEarnings` variable and set it from - what is it now? $20? $50? - to, say $150 so that people can quickly get to whatever content there is. Then, once other money earning avenues are available, I'd switch the variable back to the old value.
To your first point: Actually... Most devs would look you right in the eye and either laugh or say "fuck no!". Most devs create for the hopes of earning money with a few working simply because they enjoy creating and the money is just a bonus. There are many developers that give 0 fucks for the majority of gamers that play their games as their goals are more money/career focused such as making a product to add to their portfolio for job hunting at big companies, a "look at what I can do" kind of thing, much like artists/photographers do when trying to get a job at various companies (gaming, newspapers, studios, etc).

To your 2nd point: I do know that Ren'Py does have global variables although I'm not sure how they work exactly. The best thing he could do right now is simply increase the current pool earnings from $20 to say $40/50 and that would help a lot... however, at the same time, there's just not enough content to justify doing any of that as the majority of the things you can buy aren't actually fully implemented into the game and are mostly placeholders for the time being (like most of the gardening tools above the first "level"). If you use unren.bat and enable the console/dev menus then you can use jake.money = * to set your money to what you want and that would help a lot with that for the time being. I'm not saying that your point is wrong or invalid, just doesn't really matter at this stage due to so little content involving money (or just in general) and thus it simply just isn't really important at this point in time.

Let's also keep in mind that the point of publishing these games in such early stages is twofold: one, to get people interested enough to become patrons. Two, to get as many people as possible finding bugs. Isn't it? Now, if you gate content behind a zillion clicks on the "Wait" button, you're not going to get good QA on the "end-game" content, right?
Actually I have to disagree somewhat with this... While SOME devs definitely do that in order to gain patreons/donations, it's usually so they can continue their work on the game (by buying assents, tools, programs, needed upgrades, etc). The 2nd part however definitely does NOT apply to the majority of devs because if it did, they why would they "hide" their games/products behind a paywall which in turn would GREATLY reduce the number of potential bug testers due to restricted access to the game... It's just not logical in that sense. The MAIN reason the devs that share their games publicly (without restrictions) is because they have a story/vision that they wish to share with others and that is what drives them more than anything much like some modders on the Nexus that create simply for the sake of creating.


I would definitely opt to adjust the rewards depending on the content in place. But, once again, I've never looked Ren'Py under the hood so it might be unfeasible here, I speak from the perspective of someone who dabbled in C++, C# and is a PowerShell scripter.

Assuming Ren'Py is capable of handling global variables, I would most definitely try adjusting the game per release, to ensure a smooth progression feeling instead of having players mindlessly grind early game for money (by clicking "Wait" a million times and then "clean pool" once per week) to get to the later stages of the test build.[\quote]

With this, you're looking only at a small part of the much larger picture, but also you seem to be focused far more on content rather than what the dev himself said he was focusing on right now which was working on the engine/framework. Don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from but the fact remains that neither you nor I are the developer for this project/game and neither of us knows what he has planned.

I'm fairly confident that Ren'Py can handle global variables, however (again) I'm not entirely sure as to exactly how that works. To be bluntly honest, this game isn't really in an actual "playable" state simply due to lack of content which in turn means that anything that has to do with content directly isn't really important (which is what your argument is actually focused on when you look at it objectively). It IS playable in the sense that the game can boot up, there are mechanics in place, and you are able to do a few things... But the amount of things you can actually do is incredibly minimal at this time. I get the feeling that there will be a bit of a content influx within an update or 2 as it seems (to me) like many of the more important mechanics are in place and just needs to be expanded upon... However I can't say for sure as I'm not the developer and I don't know exactly what his plan is or what other mechanics he plans to add/include. If the lack of content is causing you issues and preventing you from enjoying the game then I'd say come back in 2-3 months and check out how things are going then as there MAY be enough content added that would ease your concerns.



Well, you must have god-like planning powers then, seriously. If you're able to plan everything out, then implement that 1:1 and have a perfectly working project, then I am blown away. The projects I saw so far (be it professional, real world projects, or these adult games here) always had to adjust both expectations and implementation during and after development.
Not at all, not even close to having "god-like planning powers". I just look at things from as many perspectives as I can and take my time in thinking everything I can out while keeping expectations to a realistic level. Almost every plan will always require adjustments but here's the clincher... The AMOUNT of adjustments needed can vary but an incredibly large margin depending on just how much you account for in your planning. If you go in with a base plan of "I'm going to make x" then you're going to have issues, roadblocks, setbacks, etc. However if you go in with a detailed plan of "I'm wanting to make x by including a, b, d, e, f, and g. I want a to be this complex, b to be this simple, c to be a variable for a, e, and f, while having d affect this, e taking advantage of b and d mechanics....." and so on then you'll fair much better as you'll have a relatively solid plan. It's like planning for a vacation to a distant place: You can either just pack your stuff and go with a simple plan of "I'm going to go to x and simply enjoy myself" or you can make a detailed plan of "I'm going to go to x and try to enjoy myself, but I should take y in case z happens. I should also take this map in case I get lost, this extra phone and these numbers in case mine dies, gets lost, or stolen. I should also take x amount of extra cash in case I end up with extra expenses" and so on.

Basically a good plan with contingencies, alternatives, and accounting for some "what if's" will actually save yourself a LOT of issues and trouble. If you run into none of those then great, but if you do then you're prepared. Though I may have a slightly unfair advantage as I have an atypical form of Aspergers which (in my case) directly contributes to being able to see many things from a staggering number of different perspectives. Where most people will see 1, 2, or even 3 possible perspectives/possibilities/solutions, I can usually see dozens which in turn can easily lead to being able to make plans and think ahead while accounting for a large number of things.

Again, in my opinion, that's poor planning but I might be super wrong, depending on how flexible Ren'Py is. If it requires editing half the code whenever you want to change how much money the player earns from cleaning the pool, then you're obviously 100% right and I'm 100% wrong when I say that currently, at this stage, early game should be much quicker.
It shouldn't take that much at all (you'd have to be REALLY bad at coding if it requires that much work to change just the amount you get for cleaning the pool). It would just be a matter of finding the right line (or variable) and changing it in order to get more money out of cleaning the pool. If you got the impression that I was saying you're 100% wrong about everything then my apologies as that's definitely not what I was trying to say and I was only saying you were wrong about one aspect (the part in which I said you were incorrect). The big issue here (from what I gather of your criticisms) is actually almost entirely related to content. If you think about your complaints from an objective view, you will notice that almost every one of your issues stems from a simple lack of content which in turn means a simple lack of options and thus the game feels overwhelmingly "empty" which is why you have to wait so much, so often... There's simply not enough to do at this point in time. The complaint you had about the looking around mechanic stems from there not being any content yet implemented for that function. The complaint you have for having to wait so much before you can do anything stems from there not being enough content in the game yet to actually have anything to do at this time. Your complaint about the money issue also stems from an issue with lack of content simply because the only ways to earn money (currently) is by cleaning the pool and the farming but the farming requires an (somewhat expensive considering how long it takes to get the amount needed for the) investment to start. I could go on but I assume you get what I'm saying by now.

I'm actually wondering if you have realized that almost every one of the issues/critiques/complaints you have are actually (almost) all content related rather than engine/game related. I agree that some elements of the game really suck right now (such as the waiting, how hard it is to earn money, etc) but it ALL still boils down to the same root issue which is simply nothing more than a lack of content at the current stage of the game.

As a side-note - I hope I'm not coming off as overly critical. I really hope the project takes off as it seems to be MUCH more ambitious than 99% of the adult games genre. And not only in the renders quality, but the story too.
You are and aren't coming off as overly critical. By that I mean one the one hand you are trying to provide some constructive criticisms (which is a really good thing), yet it appears (to me) like you've yet to realize that most of your criticisms have their roots (and solutions) on the content side which is what the developer is not yet focusing on. Personally I actually appreciate you sharing your views and opinions and I take no offense of any kind from it (rather the opposite as it pleases me that you have apparently thought a bit about several of these things). It's nice to see someone that thinks quite a bit about what's going in with/in the game and sharing their views/thoughts.

I agree that yes, it is (definitely) far more ambitious than the vast majority of adult games which is all the more reason why it's very important to get as much of the framework/engine work done first because trying to add in a core/big mechanic later down the line will just cause issues. Personally, the way he's tackling this game reminds me of how the dev of Man of the House tackled his game which was he focused almost entirely on the engine first with very little content and now it has a very solid framework that he can easily expand upon in many ways in many different directions without it causing any major issues/problems with previous content/mechanics. He's still doing a bit of work on the engine but it is mostly minimal work (such as bug fixes) or it's adding a new branching content path (such as adding new locations/characters). The games that tried to do both engine and content work at the same time while trying to add more mechanics/framework later have a tendency to fail or require a complete rebuild and starting back from square one (or more often, simply getting completely abandoned). All of those are exactly why I'm engaging directly with you as I'm trying to get you to see that your criticisms are content focused and while they are valid, I would prefer he finish his work on the engine itself before he adds a lot of content so that his focus/time isn't split in a way that would lead to problems later down the line.

Extra note here: The vast majority of games (especially triple AAA games) all have the majority of their framework/engine work done long before they start adding actual content to it because they've discovered that it's easier (and faster) when one doesn't have to constantly go back and change a lot of data to accommodate new random mechanics which in turn can easily lead to having to go back and change how quite a bit of content is accessed/displayed (such as new directories/paths, appending mechanic x and y to mechanic z, or having to go through thousands of assets in order for a new mechanic to be able to utilize it, etc). The more of the framework you get done ahead of time means less time you have to mess with it later overall which in turn leads to more time to spend on creating content that can be added.

I hope you don't take my messages as being critical of you, rude, etc. Just sharing my personal views, opinions, and thoughts. I also would like you to know that I really desire more content as well, the only difference between our views seems to be that I'm willing to put aside that desire and wait as patiently as I can for the engine/framework to get where the dev wants it as I believe that it would be better for the game overall in the long run.
 

Thundorn

Member
Dec 31, 2017
207
985
Morning All. Thanks for the bug reports. I intentionally didn't update the OP with the links i posted on patreon because I knew things were a bit hickle-de-pickle I wasn't aware of the issue with the seeds in the farming game so will fix that before updating the links

Reference the last scene with Laura, i will change the chances of seeing her with Dee to make it more balanced

Regarding my comment about Dual Family and the other games. If it came across as a disparaging comment about those games it wasn't meant to. I was just using them as an example of what a basic visual novel is compared to a more interactive game such as Deeper, MOTH or summertime saga
 
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Seraphi23

Newbie
Sep 4, 2017
67
68
Old save doesn't work for this game?
Yup. Sadly, this is kind of common for games with complex mechanics other than simple VN. They require more time to invest due to complex gameplay, but break saves every couple of versions, especially renpy-based ones.
 
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anschwww

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2017
1,251
6,075
The game still give an exception error at the book for me. Started yet another new game, and then got the "this is not how it works" when tried to click the book.

v0.0.35 changelog
  • fixed bug in farm where you could get infinite seeds
  • fixed various minor bugs in dialogue
  • fixed crash during Laura highstreet scene
  • reduced chance of seeing Laura with "Dee"
Download links:
 

Thundorn

Member
Dec 31, 2017
207
985
InstaHo and the department store are not implemented yet. You can only visit Comix and Tropical Island Records
 
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2.60 star(s) 33 Votes