- Apr 10, 2020
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I have played this game and i really liked it. It is perfect just wanted to know when's the next update
RPGM Defenestration [v0.5c] [Fresh Mulan]
- Apr 17, 2020
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Just like you, I'd like to see updates more often. I believe you are just like me, we want more because we like this game, or we wouldn't care at all.
unfortunately, there are no formal agreements between devs and patrons. devs don't make any commitment to a "measurable" quantity of content.
The reality is: devs decide how much content they want to update, patrons decide how much money they want to pay. Patronization is not a purchase though, it is more like an appreciation to a talented artisan. it is not unusual for an artisan to procrastinate in history.
Anyway, when patrons "patronize" an artisan, they are literally giving their money away because they like the artisan or works of this artisan. It is not necessary for them to get something back.
So, am I a "gullible" altruist? No, I merely have realized it sadly: this is how devs develop those attractive games for us. Of course, I would love to go to Steam and buy completed adult games with my favorite fetishes. But it is not how it works. The gaming market has its rules, I don't like them, yet I can't change them either.
it is not pleasant for us, I believe it is not pleasant for devs either. Coding and painting might not be the only difficulties devs need to overcome. Patronization is not a stable income that could secure a stable future, nobody wants to bet everything on it. it is nice to have it, but you can't live on it.
unfortunately, there are no formal agreements between devs and patrons. devs don't make any commitment to a "measurable" quantity of content.
The reality is: devs decide how much content they want to update, patrons decide how much money they want to pay. Patronization is not a purchase though, it is more like an appreciation to a talented artisan. it is not unusual for an artisan to procrastinate in history.
Anyway, when patrons "patronize" an artisan, they are literally giving their money away because they like the artisan or works of this artisan. It is not necessary for them to get something back.
So, am I a "gullible" altruist? No, I merely have realized it sadly: this is how devs develop those attractive games for us. Of course, I would love to go to Steam and buy completed adult games with my favorite fetishes. But it is not how it works. The gaming market has its rules, I don't like them, yet I can't change them either.
it is not pleasant for us, I believe it is not pleasant for devs either. Coding and painting might not be the only difficulties devs need to overcome. Patronization is not a stable income that could secure a stable future, nobody wants to bet everything on it. it is nice to have it, but you can't live on it.
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- Dec 13, 2019
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I am with you of what you saying but there some points first the money to me 2-3k its not enough its deserver little bit more because they are two people and we dont know about they life status maybe they truly need every penny of that money and second yes rpg maker is very easy tool I use it before and I talk about too but the art really need time I know the art of this game not great but its really good one and story and writing they need time about the idea and content of course and I wish they write less and make it more simple in the next updates three and if you saying the game its been about 4 years and didnt finish yet and update every six month well thats milking ... I wish one day we will have some law and rules in these stuff to make sure the devs do really and we get good content every update with big way to support the devs in work so no side take the advantage on the other side devs or fans and supportive and not in this game only on every game ....
- Sep 18, 2018
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complex map. not going to learn a game just to play it max 10hrs. Keep up the good work I see potential 
- Sep 22, 2016
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2-3K split between two people is a lot more than I make, and I live in Spain, in the Basque country. I can live here with 1300$ a month, and Russia is about 4 times less expensive than Spain. Now go figures.
Not Moscow. Actually just renting a flat within a couple of hours ride to center will be around 1k. Yeah, in other regions you can have it for 100-200.
- Sep 22, 2016
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It is 1k where I live, and I can still live with 1300$
That is, also having to pay for public transport and all that.
Honestly tho: Your job is online, quite literally, nothing attaches you to your place other than having to move everything and maybe friends or wahtever, but if you live somewhere expensive go live somewhere less expensive. I can't cause I would have to take hours of public transports or more than an hour of car travel, but they can do it perfectly.
This ain't at all about "not being able to live with that money", it's about living comfortably with no changes or effort.
I like the game and all, and I support creators here and there, whenever I can. Maybe I pledge for a month, then take it back when I need it for my life stuff...This doesn't mean I don't think 90% of patreon creators are quite lazy and milking people for their money. I work 40 hours a week to pull minimum wage. They probably work 10-20 hours a week to pull, in this case, 1.3k each, but some creators pull about 10k each and deliver literally no content. Wanna tell me art takes time? Programming takes time? Doe, I have both programmer and artist friends. That's bullshit, sometimes you can get stuck in programming, yeah, but you can fix it in a few hours. If all creators were to spend certain amount of time(Not even a full shift, just a half shift) of about 6 hours daily 5 days a week, they would be pulling games faster than you could play them. The art, though, does take some basic time. BUT, it doesn't take nowhere as much as they make people believe it does. If you guys get any artist friends you'll know this; Not even "good good good" art takes more than a week for each doodle if you dedicate time to it, and this ain't even full art, it's Renders most of the time. If you look at the files, the body is in pieces so it can be put in the game without redrawing the character everytime. (Some art is a full pic, tho, but that's because it has no variations.)
They are not interested in developing that fast, because they can just keep going with a slow as fuck updated game and people will keep paying.
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- Apr 17, 2020
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we are keeping talking about Russian living conditions here, But I really think it is irrelevant.
Actually, what you said exactly explains why devs milk around. In the conventional industry, where you and I are working, time is money, efficiency is everything. A company could move to the next project earlier if it finishes one more quickly, it makes more profit in this way. you and I could get a bonus or a commission by "hard-working". So we have a strong motivation to speed up.
But with patronization, devs literally get less by "hard-working". The better quality arts need more time to accomplish, by "hard-working", devs are devaluating their works, the more diligent they are, the earlier they lose their patronization. Why would anyone want to terminate their prize earlier by "hard-working"? Especially those who are trying to give good quality arts --- the quicker, the better ---the more they lose. People always argue: don't go against human nature, this is it.
Patronization is not a market behavior, many are judging a non-market action with the market principles here.
Many programmers work at a fast pace because their prize is not "patronization", their payments are from the Apple store, Steam, etc. The earlier they finish their job, the earlier and more they can make from millions on the Apple store or Steam. I talked with a friend about the idea of making a game on Patreon. he almost choked himself by laughing at me, to him, patronization is not even an "income" at all.
Many devs who developed those deviant games love games and fetishes, this is their motivation. They are actually doing this in their spare time.
If we judge devs with the traditional market rules, none of them would satisfy the market standard. Don't take me wrong though, I also want to see more content. But it is not the devs fault, nor our fault, if that is not happening.
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- Sep 22, 2016
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They are earning much more than most people with a "normal job" in their "spare time" and still cry about money. That's the critizism.
This is like a Streamer doing 3 hours a day and crying about not getting enough money. Work a half shift, or a full shift, instead of 3 hours, then.
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- Feb 26, 2018
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I have 2 questions
1- Every time I go to the imperator , the guards told me ( you are not allowed to pass ) , what should I do ?
2- on mission ( get inside energy factory city gate area ) , I already entered and put the Jammer then then gate did not open , what should i do ?
1- Every time I go to the imperator , the guards told me ( you are not allowed to pass ) , what should I do ?
2- on mission ( get inside energy factory city gate area ) , I already entered and put the Jammer then then gate did not open , what should i do ?
- Oct 14, 2019
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That's somewhat true. It is the easy and lazy way to make money of patrons but there are cases where people that have actually work hard and delivered constant good quality content kept getting more and more money. Some have grown to the point to be able to hire enough staff to be considered a small indie studio and all of it being supported by patrons. So it shows that hard work is also rewarded by patron.
Why shouldnt they be held to the same standards as normal jobs? It is Patreon's fault for not not exacting anything from their "artists" and its devs' fault for abusing a faulty system.
- Sep 22, 2016
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Exactly. Also, just like I said, working harder means more people are gonna go and pledge, meaning you'll get more money, but it's more comfortable to complain about not having enough to live while still not working hard like the rest of us. Funneh.
Patreon and all these websites should DEFINITELY place minimum work or content amounts for certain amounts of income. If the creator is earning 10k a month(For example), there's no excuse not to have at least 4 full scenes per month, easily. You can hire people, pay for artwork, or whatever the heck you want. No excuses.
If anyone wants to rebate this; Check Futadom world(for example) and then come and tell me some(Most) creators don't abuse their supporters on the fake illusion that "It's too hard and we can't possibly put that much work out there so quickly". I dare you.
The day some creators(Not only one, but a few) start putting content constantly out there with interesting kinks that people can be interested in, people will realize their creators have been lying to them and feeding their delusions.
I still don't think it's bad to support creators, but I really can't stand when they're asking for more money cause "they can't live with what they earn." Isn't it a "hobby"? So why do you expect to live from it? Oh, what's that? It's not a hobby, it's a job? Work 8 hours a day then and you'll be able to live from it.
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Sadly, with all this being true. The real problem is the patrons who support such devs. And there is nothing that can be done to make people more responsible with their spending. Either they are forgetful or gullible.
I doubt the platforms such as patreon will implement minimum content levels either since it will decrease their own profits since the patreons will jump ship from the easy life to go to a different platform. It is a question of morality and it rarely aligns with chasing profit.
We can only keep writing these messages to hopefully make more people realize what they are doing.
Now this makes me think: is it just as immoral to keep suporting a dev who milks patreons as compared to this exact dev milking its patreons?
- Sep 22, 2016
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No it's not, you're not immoral for supporting someone for making a game, even if the creator is doing that, specially when most creators do.
And I don't think the solution would really be for people to just stop pledging to them all, all of sudden. The solution would be to have some honest content creators who deliver a nice amount of content per month so people would stop pledging to the old creators, and FORCE them to actually work to get back those backers. But since that's not going to happen, we're just gonna keep listening to creators saying they don't earn enough when they earn x2 what normal people does while working 7 times less.
- Apr 17, 2020
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this is exactly what I am talking about, they wouldn't take it as a normal job because it is not.
apparently, patrons can't do anything about it, otherwise, no one would complain about it. No one can "fire" a dev because of the inefficiency, it is not how it works. one could be very surprised: why a dev don't upload much still get 10+k per month? it doesn't make any sense.... it doesn't match market rules ... but it is fact, isn't it? no one has to be resentful of a fact, just like no one should be bothered by the fact: Picasso"s "rubbish" could worth so much so that this lazy artisan doesn't have to work from 9 -5 like us.
Besides, the way of getting payment is not normal. As I said, patronization creates a twisted prize/penalty pattern. If someone's potential income decrease because of hard-working, then, basically, he/she won't work hard. this is a fundamental axiom. This situation is totally different from a "normal job".
This is not a normal job, so it is not necessary for patrons to be forgetful or gullible to keep paying devs who don't update much, the reason could be they like the dev, they like the arts, they like ..." hope", because they might not be able to find the same thing somewhere else, it is quite usual when it comes to arts. This is not as same as a "normal job".
Because it is not a market behavior~ it is not reasonable, either rational
The context we must be mindful of is that: few players on Patreon can find what they need from other sources. The gaming industry doesn't appreciate kinky/deviant/independent games at all. it is very difficult for devs to move their passion to Steam, and make it a "normal job". SADLY, patronization is the only choice for players and devs in the kinky/deviant gaming field so far, and the relationship is twisted by the nature of "patronization"
Above all, naturally, if the gaming industry(EA, Ubisoft, etc) opens more resources to those independent devs, and players can buy games easily from platforms like Steam so that devs won't get any payment if they don't work efficiently(they could make millions on another hand if they work hard --- such motivation doesn't exist on Patreon ), websites like Patreon would disappear overnight ---- at least it would be true for the adult gaming section. Without Patreon, the "patronization abusing" wouldn't exist, then there wouldn't be "milking" either.
That is the solution. Well, people could keep complaining, but really, this is not the first dev to be confronted, and won't be the last one, as long as patronization is still the only way --- an unreasonable non-market behavior.
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Well said. The only thing i disagree is lack of other options. At least for me there are plenty of japanese h-games with my favourite kinks and themes, many of those are or will be translated and uncensored by Kagura.