RPGM Defenestration [v0.5c] [Fresh Mulan]

[Rutonat]

He did nothing last 16 months. He shown nothing but 3 pictures.

Do you need a WAAAmbulance ?

 

[Readerf2b]

Do you need a WAAAmbulance ?

Yeah, your lance of shining armor paladin hurt my cringe-bone.

 

[Airell]

I'm not saying it's not dodgy. But going all the way to say the dev was scamming people all along is the biggest bullshit imaginable with the amount of work that went into the game so far. If Frehs Mulan had wanted to scam people from the start like some imply (or outright say out loud), they wouldn't have put a tenth of the efforts that went into the game.

From what fans of the game have said, he's been acting pretty bad for a long time, even before the war, doing nothing for long months (over a year) and always collecting money. I am totally in solidarity with the people who are suffering from the war, but remember: If this dev needs money and is in a difficult situation, there are many other ways to receive donations and people will help him, but using war as an excuse for bad practices is a horrible thing.

 

[Readerf2b]

Damn the amount of people tossing the war aside like it's unconsequential really show how much you know nothing about what it does to people, huh... I'd be ready to bet most of you are american, what with their country being sending troops non-stop in the middle-east for the better par of the last who knows how many decades at this point... War is such a faraway thing for you that you consider it having absolutelly no bearing whatsoever.
But jumping on a dev calling scammer makes you feel soooooo much higher and mighter...

I'm interested how many Ukrainians can skip work due to war for several months, still making X10 of median paycheck. Well, except those who run to EU.

You're on a pirate website. Stop acting like you have any fucking moral high ground.

Says pirate.

Also just because the war hasn't been going on for two years doesn't mean anything. You decided you knew the dev was a scammer from day one, yet you know nothing about them. This game has far more, and better quality, content than 95% of the scammy cashgrab we see everyday, but that's this one you attack ? The one that actually had work put into ?

That's how scam works, dumbass. No one will donate to project that looks like shit from the start. You need to make nice demo and hype it. And even if at 2018 it wasn't a scam project, it definitely is now.

 

[xatcat]

Do you need a WAAAmbulance ?

lost the argument gg

if he has issues, then it aint right to be collecting money like nothing. saying "sorry, X has come up" numerous times in a row while still collecting a fat paycheck (imagine making twice more than the average salary in your country) gives everyone the right to doubt you. maybe the 1st or 2nd month was excused, but over a year? come on man, how can you even defend that. that's mad.

he is scamming people. he has been promising updates and never delivered.

the war isnt a joke. but money isnt something that anyone should be allowed to just yoink by making false promises.

 

[Readerf2b]

twice more

Well, its actually much much more.

 

[Rutonat]

From what fans of the game have said, he's been acting pretty bad for a long time, even before the war, doing nothing for long months (over a year) and always collecting money. I am totally in solidarity with the people who are suffering from the war, but remember: If this dev needs money and is in a difficult situation, there are many other ways to receive donations and people will help him, but using war as an excuse for bad practices is a horrible thing.

You know, it's pretty easy to end up going a shit path. I should know, I've had it happen.
You just end up in a wrong way, figure you could just make an exception, to help you get back on your feet. After all, you're not doing good right now, so it's no big deal, right ? So you do. You take that exception. And the next, just to really settle back in a better space, you know. And before you know it, it's been way too long, and the exception ended up being the norm. That slope is unglodly easy to slip up on.

Now, am I saying that Fresh Mulan is 100% innocent like someone else here seems to be accusing me of saying ? No.
What I'm saying, is that there's no way to know why for certain. Because there could be a hundred reasons as to why. But that doesn't change people from deciding they're right because they want to be pissed off and want to feel all big calling out an evildoer. Which is fucking pathetic by the way.

People who were paying have a right to be pissed. And they cal also retract their subscription. Sure, they won't get their money back, but they also tend to forget that there's no contract binding the dev to them. The dev has no obligation to do anything. In fact, Patreon, Subscribestar and the likes are marely a middle-man between the fans and the dev. If fans could hand devs cash directly, that would be the exact same.
Supporting someone on any crowndfunding is basically a gamble. People chose to put their trust on a project, with no garantee it'll pay off in the end. It could be a waste of time and money as much as it could lead to something.

And remember that more often than not, those games are delivered for free anyway. So. Let's say for example that the game gets finished, and still delivered for free for everyone.
Fan A paid, monthly, $10 for the whole duration, let's say 3 years.
3 years, means 36 month, so that makes $360 total. Fan A paid $360 for a game he can get for free anyway. But Fan A doesn't get mad about that because the game got finished. He doesn't ask the dev for his money back. All he got in the end was to see every update a little early, and give his opinion on some polls from time to time.

See where I'm going ? Sure, it sucks to have your money taken away with nothing in return, but the basic point of view is wonky to begin with.
I'm not saying "Well suck it" to people who paid. Just, remember that it's not like there was no risk at all to begin with. You gambled, you lost. That sucks, but that's how it goes with all crowdfunding. You are never guaranteed to get anything for it, and most times it's completely optional to begin with. It's not a requirement for you to get the game 100% at the end. It's literally just a gesture to encourage someone.

But, when people get mad, they prefer to ignroe that fact and act like they have to get compensated because the dev is forced to. Because it makes their anger easier, more confortable to manage, when they decide it's not their fault at all. Shifting the blame to someone else is easier to deal with than admiting you took and risk that didn't pay off.

 

[Readerf2b]

You know, it's pretty easy to end up going a shit path. I should know, I've had it happen.
You just end up in a wrong way, figure you could just make an exception, to help you get back on your feet. After all, you're not doing good right now, so it's no big deal, right ? So you do. You take that exception. And the next, just to really settle back in a better space, you know. And before you know it, it's been way too long, and the exception ended up being the norm. That slope is unglodly easy to slip up on.

Now, am I saying that Fresh Mulan is 100% innocent like someone else here seems to be accusing me of saying ? No.
What I'm saying, is that there's no way to know why for certain. Because there could be a hundred reasons as to why. But that doesn't change people from deciding they're right because they want to be pissed off and want to feel all big calling out an evildoer. Which is fucking pathetic by the way.

People who were paying have a right to be pissed. And they cal also retract their subscription. Sure, they won't get their money back, but they also tend to forget that there's no contract binding the dev to them. The dev has no obligation to do anything. In fact, Patreon, Subscribestar and the likes are marely a middle-man between the fans and the dev. If fans could hand devs cash directly, that would be the exact same.
Supporting someone on any crowndfunding is basically a gamble. People chose to put their trust on a project, with no garantee it'll pay off in the end. It could be a waste of time and money as much as it could lead to something.

And remember that more often than not, those games are delivered for free anyway. So. Let's say for example that the game gets finished, and still delivered for free for everyone.
Fan A paid, monthly, $10 for the whole duration, let's say 3 years.
3 years, means 36 month, so that makes $360 total. Fan A paid $360 for a game he can get for free anyway. But Fan A doesn't get mad about that because the game got finished. He doesn't ask the dev for his money back. All he got in the end was to see every update a little early, and give his opinion on some polls from time to time.

See where I'm going ? Sure, it sucks to have your money taken away with nothing in return, but the basic point of view is wonky to begin with.
I'm not saying "Well suck it" to people who paid. Just, remember that it's not like there was no risk at all to begin with. You gambled, you lost. That sucks, but that's how it goes with all crowdfunding. You are never guaranteed to get anything for it, and most times it's completely optional to begin with. It's not a requirement for you to get the game 100% at the end. It's literally just a gesture to encourage someone.

But, when people get mad, they prefer to ignroe that fact and act like they have to get compensated because the dev is forced to. Because it makes their anger easier, more confortable to manage, when they decide it's not their fault at all. Shifting the blame to someone else is easier to deal with than admiting you took and risk that didn't pay off.

Typical scam apologetics.

 

[Rutonat]

Typical scam apologetics.

Typical "every dev is a scammer. They can release one update per week for free. They don't need money" dumbass.
How about you go to your workplace and tell your boss you don't need to be rewarded for your work, then ?

 

[Readerf2b]

Typical "every dev is a scammer. They can release one update per week for free. They don't need money" dumbass.
How about you go to your workplace and tell your boss you don't need to be rewarded for your work, then ?

There are devs who stops donations when they are on-hold. There are devs who make games. And there are scammers.

 

[Rutonat]

There are devs who stops donations when they are on-hold. There are devs who make games. And there are scammers.

Go ahead. Keep on ignoring what people say and clowning on. Just clown your way through life. Took you this far after all.

 

[Alsaeroci]

Typical "every dev is a scammer. They can release one update per week for free. They don't need money" dumbass.
How about you go to your workplace and tell your boss you don't need to be rewarded for your work, then ?

You simply exaggerated what he said, contradicted your own words, and pathetically tried to win the argument by exaggerating his arguments so much that they turned into nonsense and doing provocations that make no sense. People like you can justify absolutely anything, no wonder they are generally disliked.

 

[Airell]

You know, it's pretty easy to end up going a shit path. I should know, I've had it happen.
You just end up in a wrong way, figure you could just make an exception, to help you get back on your feet. After all, you're not doing good right now, so it's no big deal, right ? So you do. You take that exception. And the next, just to really settle back in a better space, you know. And before you know it, it's been way too long, and the exception ended up being the norm. That slope is unglodly easy to slip up on.

Now, am I saying that Fresh Mulan is 100% innocent like someone else here seems to be accusing me of saying ? No.
What I'm saying, is that there's no way to know why for certain. Because there could be a hundred reasons as to why. But that doesn't change people from deciding they're right because they want to be pissed off and want to feel all big calling out an evildoer. Which is fucking pathetic by the way.

People who were paying have a right to be pissed. And they cal also retract their subscription. Sure, they won't get their money back, but they also tend to forget that there's no contract binding the dev to them. The dev has no obligation to do anything. In fact, Patreon, Subscribestar and the likes are marely a middle-man between the fans and the dev. If fans could hand devs cash directly, that would be the exact same.
Supporting someone on any crowndfunding is basically a gamble. People chose to put their trust on a project, with no garantee it'll pay off in the end. It could be a waste of time and money as much as it could lead to something.

And remember that more often than not, those games are delivered for free anyway. So. Let's say for example that the game gets finished, and still delivered for free for everyone.
Fan A paid, monthly, $10 for the whole duration, let's say 3 years.
3 years, means 36 month, so that makes $360 total. Fan A paid $360 for a game he can get for free anyway. But Fan A doesn't get mad about that because the game got finished. He doesn't ask the dev for his money back. All he got in the end was to see every update a little early, and give his opinion on some polls from time to time.

See where I'm going ? Sure, it sucks to have your money taken away with nothing in return, but the basic point of view is wonky to begin with.
I'm not saying "Well suck it" to people who paid. Just, remember that it's not like there was no risk at all to begin with. You gambled, you lost. That sucks, but that's how it goes with all crowdfunding. You are never guaranteed to get anything for it, and most times it's completely optional to begin with. It's not a requirement for you to get the game 100% at the end. It's literally just a gesture to encourage someone.

But, when people get mad, they prefer to ignroe that fact and act like they have to get compensated because the dev is forced to. Because it makes their anger easier, more confortable to manage, when they decide it's not their fault at all. Shifting the blame to someone else is easier to deal with than admiting you took and risk that didn't pay off.

I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say that people criticizing and demanding is a bad thing. Remember, the only ones who can demand productivity from a dev are game fans, and especially the patrons.

If patrons fail to do this, which is always the case with large and popular projects, we have very counterintuitive situations with such projects collecting thousands of dollars every month without releasing anything for years.

You are right to say that crowdfunding is risky, but when patrons fail to demand, it only makes things worse. Besides, there are ways for you to check the dev's commitment and the project's pace... Productivity. It's not like this is something impossible to read, you can clearly see when a dev is passionate about the game and really works.

What happens is that fans/patrons of the game regularly turn a blind eye to this simply because they like the game, and that's what ends up killing the project.

 

[Rutonat]

I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say that people criticizing and demanding is a bad thing. Remember, the only ones who can demand productivity from a dev are game fans, and especially the patrons.

If patrons fail to do this, which is always the case with large and popular projects, we have very counterintuitive situations with such projects collecting thousands of dollars every month without releasing anything for years.

The ting is true the other way around though. Fans and patrons demanding ultra fast productivity from a dev while ignoring completely the situation of said dev. You can see it very often here, with people demanding devs put out updates every other week like the guy has nothing else to do with his time... Not all devs make enough to quit their job, or can do so from family pressure, even if they make good money. Also, not every man will openly say "yeah I make a porn game so I make 3 grands a month for it". Not the kind of thing you wanna say openly during family dinner...
Yet, a lot of people fail to realize devs are human with their own life circumstances. Not video game vending machines.

You are right to say that crowdfunding is risky, but when patrons fail to demand, it only makes things worse. Besides, there are ways for you to check the dev's commitment and the project's pace... Productivity. It's not like this is something impossible to read, you can clearly see when a dev is passionate about the game and really works.

That's also a thing. Life can throw shit at you.
Simple example is the amount of fire that happened in America the last few years. A lot of people lost their houses from that. Would that be surprising, if that were to happen to a dev, that they'd like to put the money the game makes toward having a new roof over their head ? I don't think so. But in the meantime, I doubt they'd be able to work like they used to, especially on the rauchier games out there...
Some will say "then they should stop taking money". But that's the thing, that money might be their main shot I getting out of that situation...
But, as they should, most devs don't overshare about their personal lives and issues (can't blame them with how many people respond with "we don't care, when's the next update ?"), so I'm not surprised we often have no idea why a dev ends up dropping off.
A somewhat good example of that is the dev of Corruption Time. The guy just completely dissapeared. He comes around the site now and then but we have no news. The only thing we know is that he had some quite serious personal issues, and since then, complete radio silence.
And still, some people decided to come to his thread and call him a scammer.
Only difference is that he never made any Patreon or anything, but that's not the point I'm making here.

So yeah, keeping a Patreon pumping while not saying a word is pretty scummy, but straight up deciding that it has to be because of scam and no other reason ? Come one. Scammers don't make that kind of efforts. If that was the idea, they'd just make the whole game and make it paid for in the end.

What happens is that fans/patrons of the game regularly turn a blind eye to this simply because they like the game, and that's what ends up killing the project.

Exactly. They turn a blind eye and decide they are, therefor, the blameless victims with no weight and responsability. They chose to ignore the fact that supporting wasn't a requirement and demand compensation for being stolen from. But they have some agenda in that, despite claiming otherwise. They made the choice, it slapped them in the face. They aren't as powerless as they pretend they were the whole time.

 

[cocomiel1]

You people are fucking disgusting.

my dude u just dont take comments so personal in this kind of site. as far as i know (except for some comments), opinions are totally valid. Also got news for you, world is in totally crysis and if u got luck enough to born in a shit hole in Latin America like myself and making 200 dls per month to live, well, just asumme that you live in a permament war against no f*cking body but our damn politics and weak economy xd

 

[testicalawrrior]

Ironically he just came out of hiding on Discord
Still not showing anything
just more words

 

[Airell]

The ting is true the other way around though. Fans and patrons demanding ultra fast productivity from a dev while ignoring completely the situation of said dev. You can see it very often here, with people demanding devs put out updates every other week like the guy has nothing else to do with his time... Not all devs make enough to quit their job, or can do so from family pressure, even if they make good money. Also, not every man will openly say "yeah I make a porn game so I make 3 grands a month for it". Not the kind of thing you wanna say openly during family dinner...
Yet, a lot of people fail to realize devs are human with their own life circumstances. Not video game vending machines.


That's also a thing. Life can throw shit at you.
Simple example is the amount of fire that happened in America the last few years. A lot of people lost their houses from that. Would that be surprising, if that were to happen to a dev, that they'd like to put the money the game makes toward having a new roof over their head ? I don't think so. But in the meantime, I doubt they'd be able to work like they used to, especially on the rauchier games out there...
Some will say "then they should stop taking money". But that's the thing, that money might be their main shot I getting out of that situation...
But, as they should, most devs don't overshare about their personal lives and issues (can't blame them with how many people respond with "we don't care, when's the next update ?"), so I'm not surprised we often have no idea why a dev ends up dropping off.
A somewhat good example of that is the dev of Corruption Time. The guy just completely dissapeared. He comes around the site now and then but we have no news. The only thing we know is that he had some quite serious personal issues, and since then, complete radio silence.
And still, some people decided to come to his thread and call him a scammer.
Only difference is that he never made any Patreon or anything, but that's not the point I'm making here.

So yeah, keeping a Patreon pumping while not saying a word is pretty scummy, but straight up deciding that it has to be because of scam and no other reason ? Come one. Scammers don't make that kind of efforts. If that was the idea, they'd just make the whole game and make it paid for in the end.


Exactly. They turn a blind eye and decide they are, therefor, the blameless victims with no weight and responsability. They chose to ignore the fact that supporting wasn't a requirement and demand compensation for being stolen from. But they have some agenda in that, despite claiming otherwise. They made the choice, it slapped them in the face. They aren't as powerless as they pretend they were the whole time.

Moderation is necessary, and it is necessary to analyze each case, I agree with you. That said, we need to make clear standards about what is acceptable and what is not.

Pausing money collection and putting the game onhold to go through a difficult time where you won't be able to work is acceptable.
2 years without any update collecting monthly money and making empty promises to keep the public interest is not acceptable.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

Moderation is necessary, and it is necessary to analyze each case, I agree with you. That said, we need to make clear standards about what is acceptable and what is not.

Pausing money collection and putting the game onhold to go through a difficult time is acceptable.
2 years for an update collecting monthly money and making empty promises to keep the public interest is not acceptable.

Look, full disclosure - you’ve got me. I indeed orchestrated the whole war between Ukraine and Moscovia in order to work even less. Being bombed is a small price to pay when I receave half of my usual income in return.

I don’t post on patreon and I won’t post anything except for an actual update. because I physically can’t talk about anything except the war. I do not want to use it as an excuse, I didn’t use it as an excuse, and I will remain silent for the exact same reason.

In the end it doesn't even matter, because even without the war - I didn’t name any dates, my patreon page has no mentions of any dates, all of that is in your own delusional heads. Toodles.

 

[Airell]

Look, full disclosure - you’ve got me. I indeed orchestrated the whole war between Ukraine and Moscovia in order to work even less. Being bombed is a small price to pay when I receave half of my usual income in return.

I don’t post on patreon and I won’t post anything except for an actual update. because I physically can’t talk about anything except the war. I do not want to use it as an excuse, I didn’t use it as an excuse, and I will remain silent for the exact same reason.

In the end it doesn't even matter, because even without the war - I didn’t name any dates, my patreon page has no mentions of any dates, all of that is in your own delusional heads. Toodles.

Sorry, but you don't owe me explanations. I'm not your patron or fan of the game, I was just responding to some comments to clarify pertinent points.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

Sorry, but you don't owe me explanations. I'm not your patron or fan of the game, I was just responding to some comments to clarify pertinent points.

Same. Just used the last available name to address all questions.