RPGM Demon Deals [v0.06a Public] [Breadman Games]

[Fuchsschweif]

Hmm game has very few content. Dead ends everywhere, not even the main progression with the mom gets far (ends with titjob). Animations are really great and I can tell the game itself is made with passion, however, the in game world clearly shows the dev(s) are a bit unorganized and have not planned out the development well.

It would've been better to build one part of the city first but finish it so that the player has a cohesive experience and then just add new party of the town along with new storypaths in updates.

The way it is now you've got way too many places to visit that don't offer much and many Character-Questlines that end right after 1% because only the first quest is done (cassie).

 

[matriks]

yes, whenever we get there haha

Gonna be great to see how mc kids gonna be look like with each girl and how many he gonna have)

 

[SuddenReal]

however, the in game world clearly shows the dev(s) are a bit unorganized and have not planned out the development well.

It would've been better to build one part of the city first but finish it so that the player has a cohesive experience and then just add new party of the town along with new storypaths in updates.

I beg to differ. It's clear the dev has planned out everything since the whole map is already in place. If the dev had focussed on one part first, it would mean we'd be stuck there and not be able to progress with anything. Sabrina's quest, for instance, send us all over town, not to mention the main quest.

The way it is now you've got way too many places to visit that don't offer much

Well, yes... Because that's how in-game worlds work (not just here). Unlike the real world, progress is gated. If you need to buy a bottle of wine for a quest, you won't find a bottle of wine anywhere prior to that quest. Because that's how RPG's work.

many Character-Questlines that end right after 1% because only the first quest is done (cassie).

Yes, because that's the introduction of that character. Obviously several "minor" characters will be tied in with other story lines, so you need to progress with other storylines to advance with those characters. It makes the world feel more alive because it's all intertwined.

 

[Deybigson]

Any Spanish or Portuguese version of V0.5 (for android)? I found only from V0.4.

 

[Count Morado]

When the next update release?

Answered on the previous page: #5,359

 

[Fuchsschweif]

I beg to differ. It's clear the dev has planned out everything since the whole map is already in place. If the dev had focussed on one part first, it would mean we'd be stuck there and not be able to progress with anything. Sabrina's quest, for instance, send us all over town, not to mention the main quest.

I wrote "not planned out well", not "not planned out", speaking about differentiation. And no, it would not mean you're stuck. You'd just start with 2-3 parts of the town instead of 10 and you could put all neccessary shops and places into that. It doesn't really matter if the tech shop and the gym and the hospital are all in the east or spread across all sky directions. Or you just go with the current city, but still do finish introduced storylines first (or progress them far) instead of adding 6 new characters that you only do one quest for.

And plenty of other ways to assure the development is thight and focussed. It's important to keep the player in mind when developing an early access game that people should fund and play in its given state.

Well, yes... Because that's how in-game worlds work (not just here). Unlike the real world, progress is gated. If you need to buy a bottle of wine for a quest, you won't find a bottle of wine anywhere prior to that quest. Because that's how RPG's work.

Again, if I need to walk across the whole town to the gym just to do one intro quest with Cassie only to figure out there isn't more yet, and then repeat that for several characters all over place, it gets pretty tidious. Players would enjoy more to start questlines they know that offer at least something. Even if they're not finished. Having too many loose ends during development isn't a good sign of structuring / well thought out plans.

 

[SuddenReal]

You'd just start with 2-3 parts of the town instead of 10 and you could put all neccessary shops and places into that. It doesn't really matter if the tech shop and the gym and the hospital are all in the east or spread across all sky directions.

But then you'd have the same situation, just that the districts are bigger. Right now, every district is about four screens. With your suggestion, yes, we'd have less districts, but districts that would be about twelve screens. With the quick travel, it's easier to get to a location since the district is smaller, but with a bigger district, it would take longer and thus be counter productive.

Having too many loose ends during development isn't a good sign of structuring / well thought out plans.

That's the result of introducing new characters. No doubt it'll set up a "loose end" that will be continued in a later update. The bane of too many games is that two or three characters are introduced, the dev puts up a poll to ask who to focus on, and then introduces another character to follow up with another poll. Obviously the newly introduced character won't be picked and the "old" characters will end up with more content than the new ones. Breadman, however, introduces a few characters, so it doesn't put "old" characters against "new" characters in polls, and he has already said he'll rotate the characer pool in polls, so there won't be any "favouritism" and everyone will have the same content.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

But then you'd have the same situation, just that the districts are bigger. Right now, every district is about four screens. With your suggestion, yes, we'd have less districts, but districts that would be about twelve screens. With the quick travel, it's easier to get to a location since the district is smaller, but with a bigger district, it would take longer and thus be counter productive.

You would just re-organize the placing of buildings and swap some important ones for the filler ones, so the map size would stay the same. Or you simply just plan (right from the beginning) how you could progressively start with the story over 3-4 map parts and then just focus on that before you move on to add 100 more houses and dead-end-characters that have no value for the players at their given state.

That's the result of introducing new characters. No doubt it'll set up a "loose end" that will be continued in a later update. The bane of too many games is that two or three characters are introduced, the dev puts up a poll to ask who to focus on, and then introduces another character to follow up with another poll. Obviously the newly introduced character won't be picked and the "old" characters will end up with more content than the new ones. Breadman, however, introduces a few characters, so it doesn't put "old" characters against "new" characters in polls, and he has already said he'll rotate the characer pool in polls, so there won't be any "favouritism" and everyone will have the same content.

That's another story. My comment was about introducing 2-3 characters and give them decent progression instead of introducing 10+ new characters that you barely can interact with.

If you have, let's say, 50 hours of pure development until the next update, which will spit out 25 quests (just as example) then it's smarter to have 3 new characters with ~8 quests each rather than 10 new characters with 2,5 quests each.

So it would be smarter to approach new characters linear instead of in parallel.

 

[PixelKatto]

I think Babs is a girl we underestimated a bit, it will be a lot of fun at some point to see what this nerdy girl will bring. Tuesday Sam!

 

[SuddenReal]

You would just re-organize the placing of buildings and swap some important ones for the filler ones, so the map size would stay the same. Or you simply just plan (right from the beginning) how you could progressively start with the story over 3-4 map parts and then just focus on that before you move on to add 100 more houses and dead-end-characters that have no value for the players at their given state.

Given how big some buildings are by necesity (the hospital, the school and the mall for instance), mapsize would increase if you put more locations there. Also, it wouldn't make sense since it's modelled after a US city pattern. While in Europe, "districts" aren't really a thing, they are in the US. Residential houses next to shops aren't common (even though it's, well, more convenient). Adding new locations in new area's would make no sense and just complicate things in the long run. Need a shop? Don't bother looking at the shop area, because there's no shop area, but go and find it in one of the other locations.

So it would be smarter to approach new characters linear instead of in parallel.

The thing is, the whole point is that it's supposed to be parallel instead of linear. Yes, some characters will be locked away by other storylines, but in the completed game, you're supposed to be able to choose which "main" girl you're going after, rather than finish them in a linear fashion. Also, this brings up the "problem" with polls again. Previous introduced characters will always win in the polls, rather than new characters. By introducing all the characters as soon as possible, you take away that bias.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Given how big some buildings are by necesity (the hospital, the school and the mall for instance), mapsize would increase if you put more locations there. Also, it wouldn't make sense since it's modelled after a US city pattern. While in Europe, "districts" aren't really a thing, they are in the US. Residential houses next to shops aren't common (even though it's, well, more convenient). Adding new locations in new area's would make no sense and just complicate things in the long run. Need a shop? Don't bother looking at the shop area, because there's no shop area, but go and find it in one of the other locations.

You're thinking way too complicated. Maps like the Hospital are standalone maps, so you don't need to merge them anywhere and they don't affect the size of any other maps.

You do imagine this like the town would already exist and the devs have to deal with it (Like: Oh shit, we need a tech shop, but we don't have a shopping district so we need to put it between houses which is unrealistic for the USA). They're the creators, they can plan it right away.

So let's imagine the first 1/4 of the game requires the school, the hospital, the grocery store, comic book store, tech shop, the gym and some casual houses where people live.

So school and hospital are unique maps just like now. All the stores can be in one shopping mall or district, or you can split half of them in one and half of them in another map (district / mall). Then we have the neighbourhood with the gym (or you can put it into one of the other two maps with the shops).

So you see, no problem getting all these elements into 3-4 map parts. And then you just progress the story first in these 4 map parts, and focus on the characters given there. No need to have another 5 districts with another 10 characters out there that you can't interact with yet, that have nothing more than 1 quest to offer.

As the first 1/4 of the game progresses, the 4 parts of maps are being filled with life and the characters all have something to offer in terms of quests, then the game can naturally expand and unfold into new areas, introduce new characters and make previous progressions more complex.

This would be a way more ideal approach that is more streamlined and structured and offers the people more easy-to-figure and further progressed content rather than running around in a huge empty world looking for little snippes of dialouges or intro-quests that lead to nowhere yet.

Also, this brings up the "problem" with polls again. Previous introduced characters will always win in the polls, rather than new characters. By introducing all the characters as soon as possible, you take away that bias.

There's no problem, you make a poll, give people 5 characters to favour and then, when creating let's say the first additional map with new buildings, start with the first 2 characters the community wants to see the most. Then you slowly add the picks 3-5, and this way the new map and its characters come to life. But all the time with content that really matters and offers more than just a simple intro quest.

Of course, you'd only offer 5 characters that are part of the next additional map that they come with so it all makes sense in the context of the game and the current progression. This is a modular approach and would fit best for early access games that are supposed to be enjoyed and funded by a community during development. Polls are also something that devs have control over, it's not that they just need to deal with whatever the community picks and then flip their whole game over for it.

Like I said this just needs to be well thought through from the beginning, but it's easily possible.

 

[matriks]

I think Babs is a girl we underestimated a bit, it will be a lot of fun at some point to see what this nerdy girl will bring. Tuesday Sam! View attachment 2346451

I think give little bit more bigger breasts like and she will be awesome

 

[SuddenReal]

You're thinking way too complicated. Maps like the Hospital are standalone maps, so you don't need to merge them anywhere and they don't affect the size of any other maps.

I'm not talking about the interior maps, but the buildings in the world. You can't sell a hospital having a large map if the exterior building is just a small building. It's not the Tardis. You can't have a one story building have several floors with additional wings.

You do imagine this like the town would already exist and the devs have to deal with it (Like: Oh shit, we need a tech shop, but we don't have a shopping district so we need to put it between houses which is unrealistic for the USA). They're the creators, they can plan it right away.

They did plan it right away, that's what you're complaining about.

As the first 1/4 of the game progresses, the 4 parts of maps are being filled with life and the characters all have something to offer in terms of quests, then the game can naturally expand and unfold into new areas, introduce new characters and make previous progressions more complex.

But again, it's not supposed to progress linear. For instance, right now we have the Sabrina questline, but in the completed game, we could decide to do one of the teachers first before we even touch Sabrina (pun intended). That would mean we'd go to the "newer" area's before we go to the "old" ones. But as it is right now, there's no old or new area's, so it all flows logically once the time's there for more characters.

There's no problem, you make a poll, give people 5 characters to favour and then, when creating let's say the first additional map with new buildings, start with the first 2 characters the community wants to see the most. Then you slowly add the picks 3-5, and this way the new map and its characters come to life. But all the time with content that really matters and offers more than just a simple intro quest.

And that would limit the progress to the available area's. By unlocking the world right at the start, you can place anything anywhere. If you lock things away, you're restricted to what's available. With your method, it's more showcasing what the new area has to offer, rather than focussing on the character's storyline.

I mean, I get what you're saying, there's nothing more annoying than have a character that just has one line, but given that we're merely at the start, I think we can be a bit lenient here. It's clear Breadman has things planned out, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Boopeeman]

The animation art of 0.5 was of worse quality than 0.4. The scenes were hotter but the quality of the art itself downgraded.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

I'm not talking about the interior maps, but the buildings in the world. You can't sell a hospital having a large map if the exterior building is just a small building. It's not the Tardis. You can't have a one story building have several floors with additional wings.

Nobody said the exterior should be a small building. And of course you can, you'll just unlock the new floors and additional wings gradually when there's content for it avaiable. This is especially easy since the game anyways works with the classical approach of requiring the player to have absolved certain parts of the game to access specific areas.

They did plan it right away, that's what you're complaining about.

Again, I never said they didn't plan anything. I said they did not plan it well. They planned the whole game and didn't think about their target audience and what would've been the best approach, which is why they ended up with a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere which is very tidious to find and little rewarding in the same time, while it's disappointing that main progressions can't be unlocked further. Stuck with the main mom-content at home because they rather created 12 other quests that offer nothing because they don't progress yet neither.

But again, it's not supposed to progress linear. For instance, right now we have the Sabrina questline, but in the completed game, we could decide to do one of the teachers first before we even touch Sabrina (pun intended).

That's something you can implement later once it's all done. So for now, we'd have the full questline from Sabrina, then they add another teacher, then another teacher, then another teacher. And then when the game is out and done, they can make it avaiable that you pick by yourself in what order you want to progress them simply by spending more time with their quests.

This would require to have a good roadmap right from the start with all their characters and relationships, so that you can plan well out to also create complex and interwoven content, just in your first 3-4 areas of the game already.

And that would limit the progress to the available area's.

Quite the opposite - for instance, the gym could have a fully fledged questline with Cassie now. But it hasn't, it has been sacrificed to add other 12 NPCs to the empty world that also don't have anything to offer because all of them only got intro quests. That's why it's better to focus more rather than have 100 places in the same time under construction without much of value.

If you lock things away, you're restricted to what's available.

You're saying yes to high quality content and no to a lot of under-construction little rewarding content. That's the desired approach when creating an early access game that is supposed to be enjoyed during development.

With your method, it's more showcasing what the new area has to offer, rather than focussing on the character's storyline.

No, why would that? Like I said, for instance we could have the whole gym questline with Cassie now. But the time was spent adding more and more under-construction content instead.

I mean, I get what you're saying, there's nothing more annoying than have a character that just has one line, but given that we're merely at the start, I think we can be a bit lenient here. It's clear Breadman has things planned out, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

IMO many developers don't understand that when they go for crowdfunding/patreon/early access, the would benefit so much from that modular approach instead of trying to be a jack of all trades and do everything at once. Breadman is no exception here, unfortunately.

It's important to set priorities, there are really better ways to plan such a huge open world out if you go for early access.

 

[SuddenReal]

They planned the whole game and didn't think about their target audience and what would've been the best approach, which is why they ended up with a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere which is very tidious to find and little rewarding in the same time, while it's disappointing that main progressions can't be unlocked further.

And if you follow one questline, you'll stil lend end up a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere. Because that's how questlines work.

And then when the game is out and done, they can make it avaiable that you pick by yourself in what order you want to progress them simply by spending more time with their quests.

This would require to have a good roadmap right from the start with all their characters and relationships, so that you can plan well out to also create complex and interwoven content, just in your first 3-4 areas of the game already.

And now we have a woven and interwoven content, in all the area's of the game. If we did it your way, we'd have entire sections of the town that are just untouched while we do our stuff. And what if several characters need something similar? Are you going to put in three locations that sell wine, or going to revisit an older location (which makes more sense)?

Quite the opposite - for instance, the gym could have a fully fledged questline with Cassie now.

That's assuming Cassie's questline involves only the gym. Sabrina's questline had (going by memory) the school, several shops, the MC's old home, all in different area's. Cassie's questline, so far, also had several locations as well, each in a different area.

IMO many developers don't understand that when they go for crowdfunding/patreon/early access, the would benefit so much from that modular approach instead of trying to be a jack of all trades and do everything at once. Breadman is no exception here, unfortunately.

On the contrary, Summertime Saga (amonst others) started out with a world that got stuff added later on, causing the map to change. If you use Ren'py it's easy to change the world map, but in RPG maker it's a lot harder. You need to have everything set out at the start so you can fit it all together.

 

[Lewyn Collins]

Given how big some buildings are by necesity (the hospital, the school and the mall for instance), mapsize would increase if you put more locations there. Also, it wouldn't make sense since it's modelled after a US city pattern. While in Europe, "districts" aren't really a thing, they are in the US. Residential houses next to shops aren't common (even though it's, well, more convenient). Adding new locations in new area's would make no sense and just complicate things in the long run. Need a shop? Don't bother looking at the shop area, because there's no shop area, but go and find it in one of the other locations.

The thing is, the whole point is that it's supposed to be parallel instead of linear. Yes, some characters will be locked away by other storylines, but in the completed game, you're supposed to be able to choose which "main" girl you're going after, rather than finish them in a linear fashion. Also, this brings up the "problem" with polls again. Previous introduced characters will always win in the polls, rather than new characters. By introducing all the characters as soon as possible, you take away that bias.

So we're going to have one main girl and multiple side chicks? We can still finish the game having completed all their storylines though, I take it, in just one playthrough.

 

[SuddenReal]

We can still finish the game having completed all their storylines though, I take it, in just one playthrough.

Well, since the premise is to bang 30 women, I should hope so.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

And if you follow one questline, you'll stil lend end up a huge empty world with snippets of content spread across everywhere. Because that's how questlines work.

It won't happen because instead of placing 12 random npcs all over the world with only 1-3 quests, you put 6 npcs in your well planned out first 1/4 of the map with a dozen of quests, which are interwoven with each other and lead the player to different parts of the currently unlocked town, including side-characters as well.

And now we have a woven and interwoven content, in all the area's of the game. If we did it your way, we'd have entire sections of the town that are just untouched while we do our stuff.

That isn't true. These other sections wouldn't exist yet, and as soon as they're added they come of course with content and new characters and expansions of previous story lines.

And what if several characters need something similar? Are you going to put in three locations that sell wine, or going to revisit an older location (which makes more sense)?

Then I will include the whine shop in one of the first big 4 chunks of the avaiable town, and if some future characters need whine they can of course also go there and get it there. Where's the problem?

That's assuming Cassie's questline involves only the gym.

I just mentioned it because that's where it all starts. You can also take her to the school, the neighbourhood, your home, the hospital, the shopping mall or any other of the avaiable buildings in the first quarter of the avaiable map and get insanely creative with dozens of ways of implementing her into all the other happenings in the city and story.

Free your mind!

Cassie's questline, so far, also had several locations as well, each in a different area.

Yeah but then you're moving to the gym, are exited to meet her there more often and progress with her shower scene and all of that but there's nothing, because they decided to rather focus on building other NPCs at the very other end of the town which don't offer anything of value yet.

On the contrary, Summertime Saga (amonst others) started out with a world that got stuff added later on, causing the map to change. If you use Ren'py it's easy to change the world map, but in RPG maker it's a lot harder. You need to have everything set out at the start so you can fit it all together.

That isn't true, in RPG maker it's actually as simple as it gets, because map-events are hardwired to maps.
Little example:

Let's say you have 5 different visits / quests with the girl in the fashion store. Now, later, the devs want to switch that store to another location of the map, from the north all down to the south. Do you know what's neccessary to do that?

Just build a new building down there and place the teleport event that leads to the fashion store on its door - that's it. The fashion store itself with all it events and stories, variables and so on stays untouched. RPG maker is pretty easy and streamlined in that regard.

In fact, all the interior maps you see are completely disconnected from the outside world. It's just simple teleport fields that bring the player to the desired map. They could completely puzzle the whole overworld map and flip districts and places around in an hour if they wanted.

 

[SuddenReal]

It won't happen because instead of placing 12 random npcs all over the world with only 1-3 quests, you put 6 npcs in your well planned out first 1/4 of the map with a dozen of quests, which are interwoven with each other and lead the player to different parts of the currently unlocked town, including side-characters as well.

Not every NPC needs to be connected with another NPC, and a dozen quests for 6 NPC's is still more than 1-3 quests for 12 NPC's, so that's more work. And we're still in the introduction phase of the game. It's only 0.5, people.

That isn't true. These other sections wouldn't exist yet, and as soon as they're added they come of course with content and new characters and expansions of previous story lines.

In the full game they would exist. Stop thinking this game won't attract new players. There will be people who play from v0.10 and if they don't follow the quests as they were implemented, they'd end up skipping all those previous area's, wondering why there's nothing there before they get to the area's that do matter.

Where's the problem?

The problem is that you want to designate area's to certain NPC's and suddenly a quest for that NPC is in a entirely different area you haven't gone to yet.

I just mentioned it because that's where it all starts.

But Cassie's storyline doesn't start at the gym. The main focus will be there, yes, but it doesn't start in, nor will it be limited to the gym.

In fact, all the interior maps you see are completely disconnected from the outside world.

I'm not talking about interior maps, but exterior maps. Those need to fit correctly.