VN Others Completed Double Homework [Ep. 19] [Palmer/Love-Joint]

[AL.d]

A lot of people don't like Dennis, although most seem to be taking it in stride. Some are upset. The Patreon post was apparently prompted by some discussion on their Discord about if it was too dramatic. Maybe I'm over-reacting to the situation. But maybe others are under-reacting? All I can say is that some people think they took it a little too far, and it did reach a boiling-over point with some people apparently. We'll have to see if the Devs back down from it or not, although I don't really see a way to make this right. Maybe they're going for some grandiose story here, but they're mistaking Drama for great storytelling.

It's not new with this dev. They seem to be good in building up a setting but when it comes to resolving their plots, their writing is horrible. They like to railroad MC into seemingly impossible situations that could have been easily resolved if MC was allowed to act like a normal human.

We've had pretty solid evidence of Dennis committing multiple criminal offenses during the course of the game for example. It should have been easy to just get rid of him but can't because plot armor.

I mean it's a Palmer game so I should expect that by the end I will be hating every single character in it (MC included).

 

[GrammerCop]

OK - My two cents worth. I actually don't think the NTR tag applies. NTR means "Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC."

I think the MC is just going to get murderously pissed at Dennis for trying to fuck his sister. That seems more like protective brotherly love than jealousy.

 

[thorin0815]

Brotherly love? A few minutes/hours ago you fucked her.

 

[GrammerCop]

Brotherly love? A few minutes/hours ago you fucked them both.

So? They are both his sisters. I know if some evil lecher tried moving in on my sister I would be pissed regardless.

 

[imaginatus]

Will we finally be able to rip Dennis' head off and stick it on a spike?

 

[GrammerCop]

I think it would be more fun if all the girls got together to beat the hell out of him. Of course, it will take quite a beating to do that.

 

[micojive]

So can you have sex with the sisters yet?

 

[Settum]

My 2 cents on the issue that blew this thread:

Lazy, writing. The end scene is based on who you picked, meaning, one decision mattered, in the whole game, 1. Worse than that, the one you pick is the one that ends in said scene, which is simply moronic. Tamara showed to be smarter than MC so she should have understood there'll be no end to the blackmailing, even commented about preferring the 5 IQ guy than the antagonist. Jo, although helpful and innocent, even selfless, looks to be way too involved with the MC as the first choice to do something like that. Maybe if he had spilled the beans to her and wasn't the first choice, thus, wanting to protect her sister and MC, I could get behind that although I personally despise NTR.

Instead, we have an idiotic scenario that doesn't make sense and is designed to raise angst in the player for angst's sake. Also, I feel the MC is losing IQ at an astonishingly quick rate.

For many other reasons others have already pointed out, the tag is appropriate at this point, while it might have been debatable in the past (since the MC didn't actually go out with anyone or the girls in question at that point) it's pretty solid now. Whether there should be a distinction for emotional betrayal, or "about to" ntr, the lack of explanation and way the cliffhanger was presented, that's the intended purpose. Thus, at least until said cliffhanger is resolved in an appropriate manner, the tag should stay.

 

[Sancho1969]

Quite possibly the largest understatement in VN history:

Spoiler: Multi-O's from E13

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[KingWeWuz]

Thus, at least until said cliffhanger is resolved in an appropriate manner, the tag should stay.

While I agree with most of what you've said, the tag should stay because it counts by the site rules definition of ntr.

• Ntr [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]

There is no further requirement for this tag at all. Given the heavy ntr focus of the story and its arcs (girl here is blackmailed into agreeing to have sex with Dennis, Dennis "dates" tamara, etc) the tag really deserves to be there. I'd say about half the game is this character making you jealous by coercing your love interests into sexual/romantic situations with him.

 

[yctracon]

If the definition starts with "Designed to cause jealousy", how can anything be considered ntr if the game designer says its not ntr? This may sound weird but I mean it. Anybody can feel jealous over anything, that doesnt mean that it deserves the NTR tag, just because something has that effect on 1 out of 1000 persons playing the game. Looking at what the intent of the game designer is makes sense, so as soon as they say its not an ntr game, that should be gospel.

If too many people feel jealousy towards Dennis, then thats an area where the designer failed.

I for one have at no point been jealous of Dennis. I was worried about what he might do, I was worried about the other ppl involved with him, for example Tamara dating him, I was annoyed by him and wished he wasn't there.
I never once considered him a rival for any of the LI.

So speaking for me I can say, if the designers intendet no ntr they succeeded.

Looking back at this post I dont even know why I wrote it, because honestly I find the discussion in the last couple of pages pretty annoying, and hope we can just lay it to rest.
When someone asks whether there is ntr in the game, the best answer one can give is describing as plain as possible what happens in game that some people might consider ntr. Nobody is going to convince anybody whether those things are ntr or not. And nobody needs that discussion either.

 

[KingWeWuz]

If the definition starts with "Designed to cause jealousy", how can anything be considered ntr if the game designer says its not ntr? This may sound weird but I mean it. Anybody can feel jealous over anything....

Woah woah woah.

OK allow me to interject. The focus according to some of the posts by the mods was that it applied to the protagonist, not the player. The player's feelings are irrelevant, if the protagonist doesn't give a shit it's not ntr.

 

[Settum]

While I agree with most of what you've said, the tag should stay because it counts by the site rules definition of ntr.

Yeah,... I agree... was being way to polite with the "appropriate"... since, unless outright mind control was involved, or goons with a gun on every other girl's head, there's really no appropriate way to resolve the tag. Once the game is finished, though, there should be an explanation of the tag.

 

[daklord664]

as long as Dennis gets his ass whooped or ends up dead without getting pussy whatsoever i think we'd all be satisfied

 

[tewinter]

Gonna be honest, I'm just following this thread because I want to know how this game is going to end, I really want to see if the dev is going to kill Dennis cus he is the worst villain I have ever seen and the MC is the most oblivious MC in all games I've played.

 

[GrammerCop]

So can you have sex with the sisters yet?

Yes

 

[Corambis]

as long as Dennis gets his ass whooped or ends up dead without getting pussy whatsoever i think we'd all be satisfied

Nope. I don't really see anything that happens to Dennis being ultimately satisfying. There will be relief in that he can't cause new grief, but it won't erase what he's already done. I'm sure the devs are going to downplay it all and have everyone be smiles and stuff at the end unless they're intentionally going for the unhappy ending. But realistically, this should be the type of thing that requires a lot of work to overcome and doesn't really leave anyone feeling good at the end. There might not be any fresh wounds, but there will always be scars.

Another thing that strikes me is that the MC has been pretty dispassionate throughout the game. If he's with all of these women, and the one person that ends up eliciting decisiveness and emotion out of him is Dennis... how awful would that be?

Really, I mentally see the last scene of the game being the MC and some or all of the women in the game standing together, somewhat dejected and talking about how they'll get through this. But in the background there's the faint image of Dennis' smirking face as he knows he got the last laugh.

 

[wittnotyoyo]

OK allow me to interject. The focus according to some of the posts by the mods was that it applied to the protagonist, not the player. The player's feelings are irrelevant, if the protagonist doesn't give a shit it's not ntr.

Player's feelings are always relevant and there is plenty of NTR where the protagonist starts wanting it, learns to accept it or doesn't even know.

Dennis is an NTR antagonist whether he ever succeeds in having sex with any LI. He is pursuing the MC's family/LI's in a manipulative and nefarious way. The MC has to repeatedly fend off his advances and plots.

Ignoring the dating designed to make the MC jealous, this game may not fit a strict definition of NTR by your standards. It is designed to give feelings of jealousy, helplessness etc. to the player. Do we need to wait to see how the MC reacts next episode to determine if this scene deserves an NTR tag or not?

It was a purposeful decision to end the episode where they did rather than say with Dennis gagged and tied to a chair. A negative response from players had to be expected.

There is definitely an NTR vibe to this game. Particularly with the way it is structured and the way Dennis is written and by F95 site definition the NTR tag fits.

 

[introvtx]

I expect this game will end soon... ntr or not I'm still curious what will happen in ep19, but this Dennis thing is getting too ridiculous.

 

[Corambis]

I expect this game will end soon... ntr or not I'm still curious what will happen in ep19, but this Dennis thing is getting too ridiculous.

One of my thoughts long ago about this game was that Dennis should have been Denice. Denice could still try to steal the girls, but I suspect people wouldn't mind as much. Meanwhile there'd be this tension building between the MC and Denice that finally gets resolved when Denice admits she lost, and joins his harem.