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Corambis

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
1,311
2,184
People use the tags for multiple reasons. I know I look for certain tags, but will turn my interest elsewhere if I see other tags. I actively look for incest stuff, so to me it's frustrating that I might download a game, only to find out that the incest tag is for two NPCs that are step cousins having some lesbian fun while the PC watches. For me, that wouldn't really be worthy of the incest tag, or at least not what I was looking for. But at the same time I can see how people really turned off by incest wouldn't see it that way, and would appreciate the tag.

It goes without saying that a lot of people do not like the idea of rape. Even anything that hints at it is a turnoff to them, or even painful. You'll often see that reflected in content advisories for tv shows or movies where anything vaguely rape-ish earns the show that warning, although it's not always consistent.

NTR is something else that a lot of people don't like, but for different reasons obviously. It's not just the stuff that falls under the strict definition of NTR that they don't like, but an awful lot of stuff leading up to or implying it. There was a lot of that going on in the game, especially in the last update. We don't really have an easy term for "it's not NTR but if you don't like that, you won't like this either". So we're kind of left with a tagging system that on the one hand risks drawing people in who want NTR but leave disappointed, while on the other hand risks not warning people that things sure feel like they're heading that way. I don't think there's really an easy way to find a balance between the two, because two sides of the debate use the tag differently and have different expectations for what it means. Like others, I've gotten used to digging through comments for clarification on some tags, but that isn't always quick or easy. But if I don't see a tag at all, I can't get clarification on it, so that kind of biases me to being liberal with applying tags versus risk leaving something out.
 

ꜱᴛᴀɢᴡᴏᴏᴅ

Bush Rustler
Donor
Aug 23, 2018
1,080
2,053
Well shit. I go away for a few weeks and come back to this awful news. Rest in peace. I dare say DFD was one of the first games in this whole ecosystem of smut to get me to delve further into it. I'm thankful for that.
My thoughts go out to his family and friends and I wish the best for the rest of the team going forwards.
 
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SeveredRealms

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Apr 10, 2020
1,542
6,066
oh boy.... all I can say is after dealing with people like Dennis in real life... I would have buried that fucker under the school parking lot long before he had any chance to try anything. threaten me once I warn ya threaten me twice... your lying on the ground in a pool of your own blood. I hope thats what happens to him in the end cause he doesnt deserve the share the air they all breath.
 

10xRecoil

Member
Aug 28, 2020
115
193
Can we just acknowledge how MC's personality developed throughout the story. He was stupid, in denial of things and he overcame those little by little. Had he not been that naive at the beginning, Dennis would never had any upper hand on him.

Also certain childish things the MC's did , I would have personally done myself in real life without having a second thought.
Its funny how I get to have that fraction of wisdom from Palmer through a porn game(generally speaking). I do not know If DH is Palmer's one of the best work but I am happy I came across this vn.
Peace.
 

lordfridge9

Emperor of Universe 7
Donor
Aug 24, 2017
3,273
3,922
How the hell did this whole Palmer thing happen and I just randomly found out about it? Talk about this year being a bitch. Hope you're watching over us from where ever you are, and please, please haunt the shit out of your development team if they make crap games or stuff you wouldn't approve of.
Rest In Piece Mr. Palmer
Sincerely, The Guy whom you've dragged into this adult games mess via excellent work
 
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Fu321d

Newbie
Oct 6, 2018
38
22
May you rest in peace Palmer,i've had such an awesome journey with your games, it's not even about porn at this point but the plots are really interesting, i may not be a big fan of how DH is kind of ending but much respects to you man,i hope you may rest in peace and these guys continue your legacy so to say,lots of love to you Palmer and the dev team that remained
 

SeveredDylopolis

New Member
May 22, 2020
11
9
What happened to Palmer? How do you guys know this? Rest in Peace if you really did die Palmer! I really did enjoy your game and it's probably top 5 in my list. Rest easy.
 

cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
66,793
33,658
What happened to Palmer? How do you guys know this? Rest in Peace if you really did die Palmer! I really did enjoy your game and it's probably top 5 in my list. Rest easy.
his co-workers told about it, didn't tell on what he died.
 

John Smythe

Member
Oct 11, 2017
103
75
It's too bad Palmer is not with us anymore, but I hope that ch. 19 comes out in Nov. like they said, because I am dying to see how things turn out. It will be interesting to see if zeta gives Dennis his comeuppance, or if it is the mc who kicks his ass.
 

KingWeWuz

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2019
1,197
3,671
Except that it's not my definition of the term, it's the THE definition of the term. NTR occurs when the love interest is being stolen from the protagonist willingly, as in they willingly hook up/kiss/have sex with someone other than the protagonist and it is then rubbed in their face to invoke feelings of jealousy and anger.
The definition of the tag on this site:
  • Ntr [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
By this sites rules, I think it's fair to say there is ntr in this game. It doesn't necessarily have to be willing. Google ntr there's a million rape plots or blackmail plots where the li is coerced. Does the mc feel jealous of the situations Dennis worms his way into? Yes. You can tell the mc is irritated when Denis dates Tam. Does one of the characters appear to be about to have (probably blackmailed) sex with Dennis before your interruption? Yes.

I don't know why that tag was taken down, the whole game is themed around barely overcoming an ntr antagonist, if you hate ntr you'll probably hate this game. At the very absolute minimum there should be a warning in the op about the controversial scenes for those on the fence about whether or not they're willing to play this type of game.
 
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Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,527
The definition of the tag on this site:
  • Ntr [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
By this sites rules, I think it's fair to say there is ntr in this game. It doesn't necessarily have to be willing. Google ntr there's a million rape plots or blackmail plots where the li is coerced. Does the mc feel jealous of the situations Dennis worms his way into? Yes. You can tell the mc is irritated when Denis dates Tam. Does one of the characters appear to be about to have (probably blackmailed) sex with Dennis before your interruption? Yes.

I don't know why that tag was taken down, the whole game is themed around barely overcoming an ntr antagonist, if you hate ntr you'll probably hate this game. At the very absolute minimum there should be a warning in the op about the controversial scenes for those on the fence about whether or not they're willing to play this type of game.
Except that none of the LIs are or ever will be "involved" with Dennis, that's why there is no NTR tag. Tam had no interest in Dennis and did it only to get a rise out of the MC, which she did, but that's not NTR because if it were she would have done something with Dennis in front of him, but she didn't. She had no intention of doing so because she knew the MC would come to "rescue" her.

The MC is also never "jealous" of Derek at any point, he's merely annoyed by him continually being a nuisance, and in terms of the scene at the end of Ch 18, nothing will happen. Anyone who thinks that it will or already has clearly did not know Palmer very well because he would never have that in his games, ever.

This game is not themed around NTR, not in the slightest, and the fact that you think that is yet more proof that this term has been bastardised to the point where people have forgotten what it actually involves. NTR does not apply when there is another male character in the story who is interested in any of the LIs, nor does it apply simply because this other male character is in the same room with any of the LIs. It applies only when a LI is stolen from the protagonist by another male character, either by force or by the LI willingly being with the other male character. That's it. That's all it ever was until sensitive incels on the internet started labeling any LI interaction with another male as "NTR" because they can't tell the difference between LIs who have an interest in other male characters, and LIs that don't and never, ever will have an interest in other male characters.
 

Lozloz

Newbie
Aug 16, 2020
43
85
A
There's no NTR in the game and therefore it will not get the NTR tag, now move the fuck on and go find a cuck game to fap to.
A staff member\mod who is kink shaming Cucks. I am no cuck so no hard feelings but damn ... now we know why the last two pages turned into a shit show.

Yea delete my post if you want but that wont mean anything it is just a message to you and whether you delete it or not I know you have read it.

Now to hell with this thread I am out.
 

bosp

Active Member
Jan 3, 2018
647
1,316
How about you guys cut it on the petty bickering?

Palmer passed away (RIP Palmer) and you are dishonoring him and his legacy.
There are far more important things to discuss... like backing up the Love-Joint team to help them continue and finish this VN.
I think Palmer would have wanted it most of all, he was a kind-hearted fellow very passionate about his work.
 

Corambis

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
1,311
2,184
How about you guys cut it on the petty bickering?

Palmer passed away (RIP Palmer) and you are dishonoring him and his legacy.
There are far more important things to discuss... like backing up the Love-Joint team to help them continue and finish this VN.
I think Palmer would have wanted it most of all, he was a kind-hearted fellow very passionate about his work.
I don't think debating over the NTR tag is dishonoring him at all. The fact that he made characters people could identify with enough to care about what happens to them, or to feel jealousy for when they're with Dennis is a testament to Palmer's skill as an artist. If he had thrown Tam or Jo into bed with Dennis and no one blinked, I think they'd have found that far more disheartening. Although I didn't always like all of the story he was telling, Palmer was one hell of a storyteller. As long as people keep playing his games, and just as importantly talking about and discussing them, he'll live on in that special form of immortality reserved for artists.
 

bosp

Active Member
Jan 3, 2018
647
1,316
I don't think debating over the NTR tag is dishonoring him at all. The fact that he made characters people could identify with enough to care about what happens to them, or to feel jealousy for when they're with Dennis is a testament to Palmer's skill as an artist. If he had thrown Tam or Jo into bed with Dennis and no one blinked, I think they'd have found that far more disheartening. Although I didn't always like all of the story he was telling, Palmer was one hell of a storyteller. As long as people keep playing his games, and just as importantly talking about and discussing them, he'll live on in that special form of immortality reserved for artists.
If those previous posts were more like this one of yours I don't think anybody would have minded but sadly that was not a debate but nitpicking and, if I might add, not at the most appropriate moment and certainly not about the subject Palmer always avoided introducing in his stories.
 

KingWeWuz

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2019
1,197
3,671
If those previous posts were more like this one of yours I don't think anybody would have minded but sadly that was not a debate but nitpicking and, if I might add, not at the most appropriate moment and certainly not about the subject Palmer always avoided introducing in his stories.
I think you should really take the mod's warning seriously like I am and drop the subject.

Seriously. Let's move on to a subject that you brought up before.

I would encourage others to do as I have done, go here:



and report it with the message that the creator has died

That's what I have done, I'm not sure if there's a better way, but as of right now, unless we have a virtuous hacker, nothing's going to shut down funding to that account so that people can put it into lovejoint. I'm surprised it's still up even though a few weeks have passed.
 

cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
66,793
33,658
well patreon is known for it's slow movement (unless game has even hint of incest etc).
 

Corambis

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
1,311
2,184
I think you should really take the mod's warning seriously like I am and drop the subject.

Seriously. Let's move on to a subject that you brought up before.

I would encourage others to do as I have done, go here:



and report it with the message that the creator has died

That's what I have done, I'm not sure if there's a better way, but as of right now, unless we have a virtuous hacker, nothing's going to shut down funding to that account so that people can put it into lovejoint. I'm surprised it's still up even though a few weeks have passed.
well patreon is known for it's slow movement (unless game has even hint of incest etc).
The whole concept of "what happens to my online stuff when I die" is something that's really unclear at the moment. Most companies don't have provisions for when that happens, and honestly if Patreon can keep the page up and hold onto the money longer, they're happy. They may have to eventually give it to someone or declare it as lost money, but for now they can earn interest on it, or more than likely they're investing it for even higher rates of return.

If Palmer told his next of kin about the site and/or they knew about it, I'm sure they could start some legal process. But would they know, given the subject matter Palmer deals with? I wouldn't have told anyone I knew personally. Maybe the other developers he worked with didn't even know his real name.

For now, it's maybe a useful lesson to keep a list of what online accounts each of has and try to make some kind of arrangement for it to go to our next of kin in case we die. Especially if you might have thousands of dollars or more in it. Our legal system is severely lagging behind the reality of the high-tech world we live in.
 
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