GetOutOfMyLab

Conversation Conqueror
Modder
Aug 13, 2021
6,057
16,220
Yeah that never even crossed my mind. And now I just think it's hilarious that people go to that extent to avoid a tag.

I'll be honest I don't even know what tags are on my game at this point. I'd have to check the OP. :p
It's pretty insane. I've even recently been in a thread where people said they would abandon the game entirely if it even had optional fetish content. That close-minded view I'll never understand. Don't like it? Don't choose the options to see it. Pretty straightforward.
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,571
14,565
It's pretty insane. I've even recently been in a thread where people said they would abandon the game entirely if it even had optional fetish content. That close-minded view I'll never understand. Don't like it? Don't choose the options to see it. Pretty straightforward.
And on the other side I've seen people claiming to abandon a game if some kink included was made optional for the wimps and simps who do not want to play it. "If you do not enjoy a game in the same way I do you're doing it wrong!"
 

GetOutOfMyLab

Conversation Conqueror
Modder
Aug 13, 2021
6,057
16,220
And on the other side I've seen people claiming to abandon a game if some kink included was made optional for the wimps and simps who do not want to play it. "If you do not enjoy a game in the same way I do you're doing it wrong!"
yeah, I've seen that too. Let people play the game the way they like to play it. Options are there for a reason.
 

linkinn

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2020
1,069
7,951
I admire your entusiasm and always striving to be better and different, but if that's the direction you are taking i'll take my leave, even if i love the story and every character you've built so far it'll be too much of a change out of nowhere.

I don't play VNs as i watch porn or series episodes, i like to be immersed, having multiple protags breaks that line completely, having to split decisions between them and even in this case having multiple opinions on characters(LIs) from different points of view, it'll feel like i'am the dude from the movie Split.
 

RomanHume

Sommelier of Pussy & Purveyor of Porn
Game Developer
Jan 5, 2018
2,390
13,340
It's pretty insane. I've even recently been in a thread where people said they would abandon the game entirely if it even had optional fetish content. That close-minded view I'll never understand. Don't like it? Don't choose the options to see it. Pretty straightforward.
And on the other side I've seen people claiming to abandon a game if some kink included was made optional for the wimps and simps who do not want to play it. "If you do not enjoy a game in the same way I do you're doing it wrong!"
At the end of the day I personally try to give the players as much agency as absolutely possible because again, as a player that's what I'd want.

People who avoid my game because of tags, optional kinks, etc...I mean I can't help 'em.

At it's heart I'm making the game I'd want to play. And I'm a player that likes choice. And that includes choices that let me avoid content.



One of my most recent peeves with a game was Red Dead Redemption II. You hit a cutscene and Arthur's all like, "You can't do that shit, it's crazy. And you can't hurt these people or break those laws. Come on Dutch, we're good guys!"

And I'm sitting there with the controller going, "Bitch, we just robbed a bank and killed 40 civilians making our escape. Then we shot that dude and stole his horse and sold it at a profit. So what the fuck are you talking about!"

Like, don't let me play a bad cowboy and then force me into a cut scene where I suddenly forgot all that terrible shit I did and want to be a good guy.

Anyway...I digress.
 

RomanHume

Sommelier of Pussy & Purveyor of Porn
Game Developer
Jan 5, 2018
2,390
13,340
I admire your entusiasm and always striving to be better and different, but if that's the direction you are taking i'll take my leave, even if i love the story and every character you've built so far it'll be too much of a change out of nowhere.

I don't play VNs as i watch porn or series episodes, i like to be immersed, having multiple protags breaks that line completely, having to split decisions between them and even in this case having multiple opinions on characters(LIs) from different points of view, it'll feel like i'am the dude from the movie Split.
And that's perfectly fair. At the moment I haven't committed to a decision. Just playing with ideas. Right now that's like step 238 and I'm still on step 5. So it's not a choice I'm going to make any time soon.

If I did do something with multiple protags it would be 15 or 16 episodes in after Roger's story is well developed. And who knows, maybe by then I'll have improvised a way to turn multiple protags on or off, once more giving player agency to how the game is experienced.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
13,696
32,050
And that's perfectly fair. At the moment I haven't committed to a decision. Just playing with ideas. Right now that's like step 238 and I'm still on step 5. So it's not a choice I'm going to make any time soon.

If I did do something with multiple protags it would be 15 or 16 episodes in after Roger's story is well developed. And who knows, maybe by then I'll have improvised a way to turn multiple protags on or off, once more giving player agency to how the game is experienced.
I still think the original idea of sequels is better, or maybe 'modules', where you pick an MC at the start, and do their story. Like an Expansion Pack, or a DLC by today's standards.
 
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desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,133
14,150
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
You know, I have a suspicion you always had something like in the back of your mind. The game is called Dr. Amana, Sexual Therapist and not Roger's Therapy Adventures.

Jokes aside, I actually think the episodic format (real episodic format that follows a self contained arc) is much more suited to the patreon model than the serialized chunks of updates that is more common. It's just that most devs don't actually study writing or plan much of anything. Of course, there are plenty of devs that create amazing stories in the serialized format, but episodic probably does need a bit more studying to get things right.

The issue I see at this point is if the transition into an episodic format will feel too sudden. Ideally, the shift (if there would be a shift) should have come after 1 introductory chapter for each character. Right now, some chars have more screen time than others. Switching all of a sudden might seem arbitrary.

We should keep in mind the narrative structure is that of a series of therapy sessions. I've never been to therapy, but I would guess that these sessions would indeed work more like an episode. The therapist probably asks you to elaborate on an incident or whatever you are dealing with. So perhaps the story telling so far that focuses on just 1 character per session is more limiting and unrealistic. It's just that a shift in narrative style mid way could come off as too "meta." It would be nice to try to tie it into the narrative somehow. Maybe Amana says something like, "Alright, now that we know a bit about the people close to you, tell me about the _____ incident."

As for the MCs interacting with other MCs, I personally don't understand this "not showing MC's face" fad. Perhaps it's because I don't self insert, but even if I were to do so, I don't see why the MC's face would prevent that. It's not like most people have the same build, same experiences, same personality, or same circumstances as Roger or any MC. If you are able to immerse yourself into this well defined MC, does seeing his face really make a difference?

Lastly, I still feel like it would be advisable to at least finish Roger's story before moving on. Mainly because people are already invested in his storyline. I'm not even considering the crossovers, "NTR" dilemmas, or anything else. The people playing this most likely are interested in Roger's story at this point. After this MC is done, everyone would likely be cool with exploring multiple MCs simultaneously.

There is a real concern of developmental bloat. If the entire completed game as you envision it drops at once, that's absolutely cool. As it stands, this game does have a glacial pace of updates (at least for now) and having multiple MCs might make it a 100 year endeavor.

PS. I want to mention your attempts to keep the MC consistent based on blue/red and past choices. It might seem like a bunch of work for no reason, but it's really appreciated. I mean, a lot of devs make different renders for multiple routes and branches, but they don't even take the time to make sure the dialogues are in sync with the character archetype that the player is pursuing (something that the devs themselves enabled with the moral split in choices). Case in point, the schizophrenic MC in Radiant.
 
Last edited:

Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,699
10,943
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
I love it! This speaks so clearly to some of my own thought processes. Your expressed thoughts have given me more clarity and inspiration. I wish you all the best in this new format.

One thing about a female protagonist--perhaps it is a woman seeing Dr. Amana. Whether she's getting involved men or women would not matter--she's still seeking help.
 
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D9074

Active Member
Feb 21, 2021
718
1,325
I dont mind if there is optional NTR and all of that stuff, id rather have the choice. Multiple protagonist thing to me is not as fun, i prefer controlling one character, also if over half way through the game i could just randomly control another character id find it a bit weird and confusing. I feel like if its going to be multiple its better from the start. thats just my opinion though and we are all different.
 

Blaq Mask

Member
Jun 25, 2019
167
260
I dont mind if there is optional NTR and all of that stuff, id rather have the choice. Multiple protagonist thing to me is not as fun, i prefer controlling one character, also if over half way through the game i could just randomly control another character id find it a bit weird and confusing. I feel like if its going to be multiple its better from the start. thats just my opinion though and we are all different.
Yeah, suddenly shoving multiple protags into a game that used to have one is pretty jarring. Not to mention, having the same pool of LIs for multiple people will end up playing hell with pacing. They're all gonna be throwing themselves on the closest dick, or taking forever to get anywhere. I honestly can't see what it'll add to this project but dev time and complication.
 

Kionashi

Active Member
Jul 11, 2021
526
1,116
Yeah, suddenly shoving multiple protags into a game that used to have one is pretty jarring. Not to mention, having the same pool of LIs for multiple people will end up playing hell with pacing. They're all gonna be throwing themselves on the closest dick, or taking forever to get anywhere. I honestly can't see what it'll add to this project but dev time and complication.
hey we should at least give the dev the benefit fo the doubt, it could be pretty cool is done well...
 
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mightybored

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2021
1,403
2,277
I think there needs to be a clarification between multiple protags and multiple concurrent protags. If the game is ultimately about Dr. Amana's clients, each client being the protag of their story makes sense, but their stories don't have to all happen at the same time.

Like, we got Roger now, but then he'll get his (happy?) ending, and we'll move on to "Bob" and his story. And then "Alexa" and her story.
 

K18

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2018
1,008
6,998
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
My two cents on the MC topic. As a fan I'm personally against the idea of multiple protagonists, especially with shared love interests across the board. Or any other crossover/shared universe. I think the wording (the end specifically) did a disservice to the poll option "Even if each partner is an MC that I control, I still get jealous.", It's not about jealousy, for me at least. I simply don't like multiple protagonists, constantly switching back & forwards between each MC's POV, then viewing multiple different relationships, the story would become more convoluted after a while. I prefer to following the journey of a single protagonist playing his cards right with his many optional love interests in a linear plot, straight narrative. Especially in a game where i've been following a single protagonist (Roger) adventure since the very beginning this long, so to suddenly change it to multiple protagonists would be very jarring. To me, It's the equivalent of a game that was initially a "choice-based linear-plot visual novel" then suddenly changing into a "free-roaming sandbox management grinding game". Just an example, i know nothing has happened yet.

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.
I wouldn't want to see that. Not with a different MC (who's not Roger) at least. Now, following just a Single MC (Roger) you could mention Jane had a promiscuous/flirtatious past of using her sexuality on others to get want she wants or to get out of situations.

I didn't grasp the part of what you meant by episodic structure. Unless you meant future update being listed as chapters/episodes and the updates themselves being a linear plot low (Like a movie) with scenes transitioning automatically and MC interacting with multiple characters, instead of players choose between 2-3 girls in any order each update to follow their subplot with MC. Then that sounds fine to me.

Again just my two cents on the idea.
 
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Bloodguard

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Feb 20, 2021
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If I did do something with multiple protags it would be 15 or 16 episodes in after Roger's story is well developed. And who knows, maybe by then I'll have improvised a way to turn multiple protags on or off, once more giving player agency to how the game is experienced.
Just my 2 cents on multiple protags. If the Doctor is the true MC, and you finish one chapter and start another with a new protag, that is fine, as long as you don't go switch back and forth. I like to put myself in the shoes of the MC, and that is pretty difficult if they keep changing. Good example of this is Eva Kiss. I Loved Good Girl Gone Bad, one of my all time favorite AVNs for branching paths and freedom of choice. I Am pretty much hating Our Red String right now, due to the switching protags, and the inability to really immerse myself in the story. Just makes me feel disconnected and unable to really get invested in either protag, or the story in general. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
 
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Jul 1, 2018
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I really don't like the multiple protags, I just don't see the point of switching characters, It kills the immersion. Just imagine right now you are playing Being A Dick or whatever VN you like and the developer decides to remove the MC for a new one. How would you feel?


And if I'm pretty sure that It's not a popular tag so even from a financial point, I don't see the use.
 

Dragon59

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Apr 24, 2020
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I really don't like the multiple protags, I just don't see the point of switching characters, It kills the immersion. Just imagine right now you are playing Being A Dick or whatever VN you like and the developer decides to remove the MC for a new one. How would you feel?


And if I'm pretty sure that It's not a popular tag so even from a financial point, I don't see the use.
The developer being inspired by the concept is the use.

It might be, as you say, a financial risk, but for many developers, these projects are first and foremost artistic endeavors. If a developer finds enough people to support it, that's gravy on top.
 

dontcarewhateverno

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Jan 25, 2021
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Just my 2 cents on multiple protags. If the Doctor is the true MC, and you finish one chapter and start another with a new protag, that is fine, as long as you don't go switch back and forth. I like to put myself in the shoes of the MC, and that is pretty difficult if they keep changing. Good example of this is Eva Kiss. I Loved Good Girl Gone Bad, one of my all time favorite AVNs for branching paths and freedom of choice. I Am pretty much hating Our Red String right now, due to the switching protags, and the inability to really immerse myself in the story. Just makes me feel disconnected and unable to really get invested in either protag, or the story in general. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
IMO, the two best AVN creators for more realistic(ish) drama-based games. I personally don't mind the duel protag in ORS and think the game in general is better than GGGB. But the way Eva does it - where it's almost cannon that they're both each others' main love interests - creates a whole bunch of headaches development-wise. Might be interesting for RomanHume and her to bounce ideas off of each other, since I know she's run into a lot of pitfalls developing that game that maybe he can avoid. She does tend to design out-of-control branching paths without a structured game-plan though, where DAST has a simpler good/bad/neutral set-up, so if the new game design is close to this one in that respect, duel protag likely won't cause as many headaches. Plus it sounds like MCs won't directly interact here.
 
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