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Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,706
10,972
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
I love it! This speaks so clearly to some of my own thought processes. Your expressed thoughts have given me more clarity and inspiration. I wish you all the best in this new format.

One thing about a female protagonist--perhaps it is a woman seeing Dr. Amana. Whether she's getting involved men or women would not matter--she's still seeking help.
 
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D9074

Active Member
Feb 21, 2021
718
1,328
I dont mind if there is optional NTR and all of that stuff, id rather have the choice. Multiple protagonist thing to me is not as fun, i prefer controlling one character, also if over half way through the game i could just randomly control another character id find it a bit weird and confusing. I feel like if its going to be multiple its better from the start. thats just my opinion though and we are all different.
 

Blaq Mask

Member
Jun 25, 2019
220
362
I dont mind if there is optional NTR and all of that stuff, id rather have the choice. Multiple protagonist thing to me is not as fun, i prefer controlling one character, also if over half way through the game i could just randomly control another character id find it a bit weird and confusing. I feel like if its going to be multiple its better from the start. thats just my opinion though and we are all different.
Yeah, suddenly shoving multiple protags into a game that used to have one is pretty jarring. Not to mention, having the same pool of LIs for multiple people will end up playing hell with pacing. They're all gonna be throwing themselves on the closest dick, or taking forever to get anywhere. I honestly can't see what it'll add to this project but dev time and complication.
 

Kionashi

Active Member
Jul 11, 2021
545
1,139
Yeah, suddenly shoving multiple protags into a game that used to have one is pretty jarring. Not to mention, having the same pool of LIs for multiple people will end up playing hell with pacing. They're all gonna be throwing themselves on the closest dick, or taking forever to get anywhere. I honestly can't see what it'll add to this project but dev time and complication.
hey we should at least give the dev the benefit fo the doubt, it could be pretty cool is done well...
 
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mightybored

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2021
1,403
2,279
I think there needs to be a clarification between multiple protags and multiple concurrent protags. If the game is ultimately about Dr. Amana's clients, each client being the protag of their story makes sense, but their stories don't have to all happen at the same time.

Like, we got Roger now, but then he'll get his (happy?) ending, and we'll move on to "Bob" and his story. And then "Alexa" and her story.
 

K18

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2018
1,035
7,307
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
My two cents on the MC topic. As a fan I'm personally against the idea of multiple protagonists, especially with shared love interests across the board. Or any other crossover/shared universe. I think the wording (the end specifically) did a disservice to the poll option "Even if each partner is an MC that I control, I still get jealous.", It's not about jealousy, for me at least. I simply don't like multiple protagonists, constantly switching back & forwards between each MC's POV, then viewing multiple different relationships, the story would become more convoluted after a while. I prefer to following the journey of a single protagonist playing his cards right with his many optional love interests in a linear plot, straight narrative. Especially in a game where i've been following a single protagonist (Roger) adventure since the very beginning this long, so to suddenly change it to multiple protagonists would be very jarring. To me, It's the equivalent of a game that was initially a "choice-based linear-plot visual novel" then suddenly changing into a "free-roaming sandbox management grinding game". Just an example, i know nothing has happened yet.

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.
I wouldn't want to see that. Not with a different MC (who's not Roger) at least. Now, following just a Single MC (Roger) you could mention Jane had a promiscuous/flirtatious past of using her sexuality on others to get want she wants or to get out of situations.

I didn't grasp the part of what you meant by episodic structure. Unless you meant future update being listed as chapters/episodes and the updates themselves being a linear plot low (Like a movie) with scenes transitioning automatically and MC interacting with multiple characters, instead of players choose between 2-3 girls in any order each update to follow their subplot with MC. Then that sounds fine to me.

Again just my two cents on the idea.
 
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Bloodguard

Engaged Member
Feb 20, 2021
2,809
4,380
If I did do something with multiple protags it would be 15 or 16 episodes in after Roger's story is well developed. And who knows, maybe by then I'll have improvised a way to turn multiple protags on or off, once more giving player agency to how the game is experienced.
Just my 2 cents on multiple protags. If the Doctor is the true MC, and you finish one chapter and start another with a new protag, that is fine, as long as you don't go switch back and forth. I like to put myself in the shoes of the MC, and that is pretty difficult if they keep changing. Good example of this is Eva Kiss. I Loved Good Girl Gone Bad, one of my all time favorite AVNs for branching paths and freedom of choice. I Am pretty much hating Our Red String right now, due to the switching protags, and the inability to really immerse myself in the story. Just makes me feel disconnected and unable to really get invested in either protag, or the story in general. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
 
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Jul 1, 2018
94
281
I really don't like the multiple protags, I just don't see the point of switching characters, It kills the immersion. Just imagine right now you are playing Being A Dick or whatever VN you like and the developer decides to remove the MC for a new one. How would you feel?


And if I'm pretty sure that It's not a popular tag so even from a financial point, I don't see the use.
 

Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,706
10,972
I really don't like the multiple protags, I just don't see the point of switching characters, It kills the immersion. Just imagine right now you are playing Being A Dick or whatever VN you like and the developer decides to remove the MC for a new one. How would you feel?


And if I'm pretty sure that It's not a popular tag so even from a financial point, I don't see the use.
The developer being inspired by the concept is the use.

It might be, as you say, a financial risk, but for many developers, these projects are first and foremost artistic endeavors. If a developer finds enough people to support it, that's gravy on top.
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,279
5,444
Just my 2 cents on multiple protags. If the Doctor is the true MC, and you finish one chapter and start another with a new protag, that is fine, as long as you don't go switch back and forth. I like to put myself in the shoes of the MC, and that is pretty difficult if they keep changing. Good example of this is Eva Kiss. I Loved Good Girl Gone Bad, one of my all time favorite AVNs for branching paths and freedom of choice. I Am pretty much hating Our Red String right now, due to the switching protags, and the inability to really immerse myself in the story. Just makes me feel disconnected and unable to really get invested in either protag, or the story in general. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
IMO, the two best AVN creators for more realistic(ish) drama-based games. I personally don't mind the duel protag in ORS and think the game in general is better than GGGB. But the way Eva does it - where it's almost cannon that they're both each others' main love interests - creates a whole bunch of headaches development-wise. Might be interesting for RomanHume and her to bounce ideas off of each other, since I know she's run into a lot of pitfalls developing that game that maybe he can avoid. She does tend to design out-of-control branching paths without a structured game-plan though, where DAST has a simpler good/bad/neutral set-up, so if the new game design is close to this one in that respect, duel protag likely won't cause as many headaches. Plus it sounds like MCs won't directly interact here.
 
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d1Polterghost

Member
Jul 22, 2017
325
507
It's pretty insane. I've even recently been in a thread where people said they would abandon the game entirely if it even had optional fetish content. That close-minded view I'll never understand. Don't like it? Don't choose the options to see it. Pretty straightforward.
The problem is that the development time goes to a thing they couldnt care less about and whats interesting gets sidetracked.
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,279
5,444
Here, if any one is bored and wants to waste some time inside my head, I truncated the conversation for convenience.

Synopsis from Discord:

There has been a lot going through my head as of late regarding the game. I'm working up a giant ass post that will kind of detail the thought process.

But if you want the short version, I've been writing this game the only way I know how. In the traditional novel/short story, 3-act fashion. Each character with a beginning, middle and end.

But because I wanted players to be able to pick whatever character they want, when they want, I have near zero control over the order the characters are played in. That limits how much cross over I can do which makes the chapters very narrow and only focused on a single character. it's fine, but it's very one dimensional.

Suddenly, when writing for Amanda I fell into the vicious cycle of If Roger says this, and the character already has blue/red scores, then the answers need to change this way or that and before I know it I had 2,500 words of text in the scene, of which only about 500 would be seen in a play through. The rest were just alternate versions to accommodate the possibility of other events happening first.

But since each character had their own plot, it was like having all the characters in the same pool, swimming in one direction but every had to stay in their own lane or things would quickly get murky.

Then it was like out of the blue I had an epiphany. Rather than write this game like a novel or a movie, it needs to be more like an episodic TV show. Reoccurring characters, evolving story lines. But each chapter/episode needs to be a self contained plot that can lend to character development, tell and engaging story, but not be concerned with where they'll be six episodes from now.

So over the weekend I started reading books and watching videos on screenwriting for television and suddenly this whole fucking world of possibility opened up in front me.

In a typical 1-hour show you have five well defined acts. The plot is contained entirely in those acts. But you also have up to 4 parallel story lines unfolding at once, with each new story having a lower priority and impact within the episode.

So I put this to the test with the Amanda chapter and all of the sudden I had this amazing 12-scene, multicharacter story unfolding with Amanda having the primary story, Cassie having her own plot with the secondary story, Jane having a tertiary tale unfolding, and a single scene with Emily that sets up future events but is itself a three act drama in a single scene.

It's hands down some of the best writing I've done for this game yet.

There is cross-over, development, rising action and lots of players choices in each scene.

This has me thinking that maybe I've been tackling this all wrong. If I want the kind of detail characterization and evolving story that I've always envisioned, in which all these characters co-exist, know each other and have an impact on each other as well as the MC, then an episodic structure might be the best way to go.

And it opens up the possibility of Amana actually getting her own chapters and scenes and we can tell the story of the evolving relationship between her and Roger.

It means the game unfolds in a more linear fashion, episode 1, episode 2, etc. But since each plot is self contained, we can continue voting on who is next and develop the stories in any order want. Plus by having 3 to 4 sub plots per episode, we can start giving screen time to the characters that aren't getting much of it.

And yes, writing cross character story arcs becomes a shit load easier because I won't have to consider all the what-ifs. The past will be well written and deviations can be made for the choices the character made previously. The upside is we'll know what those choices were and can account for them specifically rather than writing a ton of 'if' statements to cover our ass.

And none of this has to impact the improvements I've made with the development. We can still crank out scenes at the same pace. Release playtests for each act and then bundle them up at the end of the month as a complete 12-16 scene episode.

At the end of the day, what I know is that rewriting Amanda's chapter this way, was some of the fastest, easiest, and best writing I've done. And the plot I have laid out for the opening is stronger than any previous iteration.

Oh, another side perk is that I can provide a sex scene per episode because even for a slow burn character like Amanda, the sex can happen in a side plot with another character until such time as we pop dat cherry!

I never wanted the blue/red system to lead to player punishment by not making the 'correct' choice. That is why I opted for a system where your decisions impact the way other characters behave and act, but ultimately all roads lead to Rome. An episodic structure would make it easier to explore 'side paths' without much difficulty. But I still want to avoid the players feeling like they are missing out 'rewards' just because they chose differently than other players or the way the developer thinks they should have.

Anyway, all this kind of leads me back around to the poll on F95.

First off, let's be clear, I've already made choices. The poll is out of curiosity and nothing else. If this was a poll to determine game content it would be left strictly to supporters.

But I got to thinking, if I'm going to do this episodic, and I'm just doing it for shits and giggles because I enjoy making it and I love telling stories, does the game really need an end. Or do I just let it trail on forever in an endless series of episodes like any other good 14 season show?

But if I do that, then I'll never get to make the other games I have hovering in the back of my mind.

Then I realized that with the new naming system I have already implemented, and the relationships system that lets characters define their relationships with each other and not just the MC, there is no reason I can't have more than one MC. The programming is already there!

But then I'm like, ok, what if one MC is a teacher and he catches Jane trying to jimmy the lock of the principal's door. If she tries to fuck him to get out of trouble, is that going to piss of the players who are enamored with Roger and his story line. I was curious about the answer.

Plus with an episodic structure my workload goes down exponentially.

Because I no longer have to think about the big picture. I don't have to write a chapter and think about how it's going to impact things four chapters down the line.

Instead, 100% of my creative energy gets to go directly into the chapter I'm working on now and the rest of the story can just naturally evolve.

And if each of the MC's was a patient of Dr. Amana, there becomes this common thread the binds them together.

But the population of characters around these MC's would be free to move between story lines without longer term ramifications and we would get to see how they behave in different situations and really evolve them multidimensionally.

Ideally these other MC's wouldn't be one shot characters. They'd have their own stories and histories to be told. Plus they offer opportunities to bring in other students......I um....I mean characters. And it alleviates me having to explain how it is Roger has the ability to maintain 15 individual relationships simultaneously.

Understand that I've not yet committed to the idea of multiple MCs.

Right now it's just a thought I'm playing with based on the idea that I wouldn't have to do anything to code it and make it work. And writing it would just fall within the natural context of the episode by episode evolution.

But the MC's would never cross paths with each other because if they do then I have to commit to giving them faces and I don't want to do that.

I want each MC to be singularly immersive and the only way to do that is to never show their face.

And the only way I can avoid ever showing their face is to make sure the MC's always stay isolated from one another.

And while I would consider including female MC's, I never want to get inside the head of any of the LI's. I like keeping that part a mystery.

Much as I hate to say it, but this change would just be another one in a long line of major switch ups. I think the best compliment I've ever gotten was from a patron whose been around since version 1. He basically said, 'I hate that you change your mind about your game once a year. But every time you do it becomes even more fucking AMAZING!'

I can only hope that this episodic switch is another in that line of annoying, yet pleasure multiplying changes.
Quite honestly, this sounds fucking brilliant. That's some high-concept masturbation material right there. [Monocle gif].
Sounds like you've got a well-organized plan and a substantial vision on making something very innovative and impressive. There's a reason I follow this one, despite some people's 'bobs n vagine' bitching about lack of content updates. I think you're on to something here, where even the best lewd game creators (which are few and far between as-is, tbh) lack the understanding of what it takes to write a professional-level narrative.

Sounds like you've got the workflow locked-in to get it done too, even if it may take a while with the necessary day-job stealing your time. IMO, trust your instincts rather than listening to us.
 
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jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,378
23,553
I wouldn't consider multiple MC's NTR, why/how could you be jealous when you're controlling the MC's? I do think however LI's being with multiple MC's, at the same time behind their backs, would potentially downgrade their characters. Emily already has an NTR route, so I'm not counting her. Naomi and Jane I could see too. They're pretty sexually charged. Monica is similar, she's a single mature lady, she can do whatever she wants.

But Cassie, Amanda? I'm not sure I see a path where they could "cheat" on Roger that doesn't involve degrading/being taken advantage of. Or them becoming depraved cum dumps on their red paths. Lupita can be taken advantage of too, considering her situation.

But let's assume you figure out how to make it work from a story POV. I still think it adds too much complexity. This game, and I don't like saying this, is already approaching the "This is never going to be finished" category. We're close to 1 update per year. As I said in my previous post, you talk about making updates quicker and then decide to make things more complex. Those two things fundamentally don't go together.

If you want to add more MC's and change how the story unfolds, I think you should just reboot the entire game. Adding more MC's in the middle of the game is too jarring. Changing how the story unfolds in the middle of the game is too jarring. It's like when a VN game decides to turn into a sandbox halfway through. It just doesn't work 95% of the time. Having that from the start would at least make sense.

And let's be honest, if other MC's show up in the middle of the story, nobody is going to immerse as them anyway. They're random "Who the heck is this?" characters. People who immerse in these games view themselves as MC, they can't view themselves as MC if they keep body-hopping around. People who don't immerse just want an interesting story. And you can immerse into the story and the characters alone, you don't need to "be MC" to immerse yourself. Do you immerse as Harry Potter or Legolas? Darth Vader? I hope not. That's weird.

And I understand not wanting to show MC's face, but I disagree with that too as you probably can guess. You can immerse when and see MC's face, it's no different than any other body part. That's not your penis, it's the MC's penis. It's not your arm, it's MC's arm. Just doing POV renders limits your rending ability. That's why Mr.Dots ditched it for Sunshine Love, for example.

And back to the multi-MC. I still like my idea of the LI's themselves being MC's who interact with each other more than other random male MC's showing up. Not because of NTR!!! but because it's just more interesting. I understand not wanting to go inside their heads, but you can separate the MC's from the players immersion as I said above.

I think people would be more interested about what's in Amanda's head than her teacher. You can be a LI for the "Main" MC, and a "secondary" MC's in their own way. If they're interacting with other male "MC's" on their own, I'd already consider them defacto MC's. You're seeing their life outside of Roger and the main scope of the story. It makes them more dynamic and interesting. You see how they interact with the other girls and build their relationships with them. This is what happens in a lot of games, especially harem games. *hint hint* ;)
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
14,392
33,732
I wouldn't consider multiple MC's NTR, why/how could you be jealous when you're controlling the MC's?
Role Playing. They are different people/characters, so I can compartmentalize it. It's not really 'jealousy' for me, but there are a lot of levels where that is not that fun (this can be done well, but generally isn't).

More than anything, trying to win over the same people, over and over would not be fun...
 
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4.40 star(s) 78 Votes