VN Ren'Py Dual Family [v1.22.1ce] [Gumdrop Games]

2.10 star(s) 189 Votes

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
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Don't rack your brains train to understand what's going on here, to me it's very clear: his Patreon must be a front for money laundering or who knows what.
I still believe in humanity, therefore I refuse to accept that almost 1,000 people are still paying this disgusting scammer on a monthly basis.
I'd love to hear how that would be manageable. Knowing the payment methods you got with Patreon. You supported any creator at Patreon before at all? Or even know what it takes to do actual money launder?

Oh, and humanity is flawed.
 
Jan 9, 2019
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829
I'd love to hear how that would be manageable. Knowing the payment methods you got with Patreon. You supported any creator at Patreon before at all? Or even know what it takes to do actual money launder?

Oh, and humanity is flawed.
If you have an illegal business where customers only spend a tiny amount/commission, then this scheme could work, there would be no suspicious activity on their end as quantities would be too low and could be easily explained by them as a result of being "fans of the game". You set up a patreon (added to the alternative payment method on his site) to collect all payments and when questioned about it you can always claim it's for a game you are developing, denying the existence of your real business. The end result is that dirty money from an undisclosed, potentially illegal business ends up in your account. You would use the facade to justify those movements if questioned/inspected by authorities.

Since the fake "business" basically runs for free (as a result of being a scam), it costs nothing to keep it alive and to inflate numbers (increased "patrons") without having to match them with increased costs. One of the reasons why hotels or restaurants are often used to launder money (on top of being able to deal with cash).

Regardless of whether he is laundering money or not, what we do know for sure is that this guy is a scammer whose true nature, countless lies and scummy tactics should be exposed, at least until he admits what he is really doing.
 
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Turret

Engaged Member
Jun 23, 2017
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I'd love to hear how that would be manageable. Knowing the payment methods you got with Patreon. You supported any creator at Patreon before at all? Or even know what it takes to do actual money launder?

Oh, and humanity is flawed.
Hate to tell you, but every system can be rigged, if you put enough brain power/resources into it. But that is beside the point, since gumdrop´s patreon presence exhibits many charactristics of a front, no matter for what, as has been told by many users.

He get´s a lot of money for practically near nothing (couple of pics in years) back, lots of proven lies and simply unprofessional behaviour (two rather optional animations the reason for an unlimited delay, really? Even if true, which is near zero probability, that would be clashing with his skill at marketing) and more, the oszillation of patron numbers is less than standard. Far less than expected considering his behaviour and output.
Hell, there are internationally known undertakings with sterling reputation with more fluctuation in patron numbers. Yes, there are the truly dedicated fans, but gumdrop has so many unwavering ones compared to developers who are far more productive, nicer and reliable than gummy ever will be, that it stretches credibility.
But I should not have to tell you all this, sicne you are a chummer or an alias of gumdrop. You might deny it, but the hints e.g. posting history and topics into that direction speak louder.

It would be like me stating "I hate chocolate". Anybody only slightly aquainted with me would scoff at such a statement and rightly so. Luckily I have the genetics to stay thin even with my considerable chocolate consumation and that I gift rare chocolates to other persons are strong hints that any statement of hating chocolate cannot be true.
Now we look at your "unrelated bystander" posting history in this thread and wonder...;)

Yes, humanity is flawed, especially when we look at the masses of political limp dicks filling out the majority of our western parliaments today due to few alternatives available (unfortunately politicians like Disraeli, Lincoln, Erlander or Bismarck, even Kohl, Kinkel, G.H.W. Bush or Mitterand do not grow on trees), but that does not fly here in this case.
It is near the far end of the probability curve, that a lazy liar like gumdrop could gather a core of roughly a thousand absolutely gulllible sheeps, incite them to give him money for nothing for nearly two years now and has no rebellion on hand. While there will be some holdouts hoping that they will get something back for their money (which is their right), I doubt it they are so numerous to fill out a regiment!
And even they will be fed up, only holding out to see some value return with an update.
But ca. 1000 people just handing out money without a thought to a person who does few things to hide the disdain he has for his followers is hard to swallow. And when you look at enterprises with solid reputation having difficulties for partly little things in comparison it becomes even more of a stretch. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
 
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Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
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If you have an illegal business where customers only spend a tiny amount/commission, then this scheme could work, there would be no suspicious activity on their end as quantities would be too low and could be easily explained by them as a result of being "fans of the game". You set up a patreon (added to the alternative payment method on his site) to collect all payments and when questioned about it you can always claim it's for a game you are developing, denying the existence of your real business. The end result is that dirty money from an undisclosed, potentially illegal business ends up in your account. You would use the facade to justify those movements if questioned/inspected by authorities.

Since the fake "business" basically runs for free (as a result of being a scam), it costs nothing to keep it alive and to inflate numbers (increased "patrons") without having to match them with increased costs. One of the reasons why hotels or restaurants are often used to launder money (on top of being able to deal with cash).

Regardless of whether he is laundering money or not, what we do know for sure is that this guy is a scammer whose true nature, countless lies and scummy tactics should be exposed, at least until he admits what he is really doing.
Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.
 
Jan 9, 2019
173
829
Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.
"Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through."

Nope, it wouldn't. Did you read what I wrote? if your illegal business has many small customers, then activity would be easily concealed by the Patreon front you would instruct your customers to use. That's the whole point.

"Money launder works where physical money changes hand."

You are choosing a restrictive definition you made up to try to exonerate this scammer of being a potential money launderer because we all know what you are doing here since forever. In reality, we don't know what he is really doing besides scamming. But you could launder money through Patreon if your illegal business has many small customers. It's not impossible as you imply.

"At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime,"

Why are you so obsessed with repeating this line? literally every time you try to defend this scammer you say something along these lines: "this is not a crime, nothing to see here folks, move along". Quite suspicious if you ask me.

"Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic."

You are the only one on this thread who still defends this scammer. Clearly, you have a problem with people exposing this dude. Don't pretend you only have a problem with "unfounded allegations", you have a problem with all criticism.

Bottom line, this guy is a scammer whose tactics should keep being exposed. Garbage people like this dude are cancer to society. Nothing you say will change that, as the scam becomes more evident than ever.
 
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Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
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"Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through."

Nope, it wouldn't. Did you read what I wrote? if your illegal business has many small customers, then activity would be easily concealed by the Patreon front you would instruct your customers to use. That's the whole point.

"Money launder works where physical money changes hand."

You are choosing a restrictive definition you made up to try to exonerate this scammer of being a potential money launderer because we all know what you are doing here since forever. In reality, we don't know what he is really doing besides scamming. But you could launder money through Patreon if your illegal business has many small customers. It's not impossible as you imply.

"At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime,"

Why are you so obsessed with repeating this line? literally every time you try to defend this scammer you say something along these lines: "this is not a crime, nothing to see here folks, move along". Quite suspicious if you ask me.

"Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic."

You are the only one on this thread who still defends this scammer. Clearly, you have a problem with people exposing this dude. Don't pretend you only have a problem with "unfounded allegations", you have a problem with all criticism.

Bottom line, this guy is a scammer whose tactics should keep being exposed. Garbage people like this dude are cancer to society. Nothing you say will change that, as the scam becomes more evident than ever.
I'm trying to stay grounded in reality where concept of proof is the governing factor. If I repeat something, it's because its a fact and proven. What crime can you prove taken place? I mean not your opinion, because, just like assholes, everyone got those. So actual proof?

There is no need to expose him for breaking his word when he done such a good job at that himself. When I state he been deceiving and not truthful, that isn't critics?

Internet is filled with garbage people, among them you find those that throw out accusations without valid claim as well.
I got no problem with expose people/whatever if there is evidence and facts to back it up.

Don't be a dotard....
 

thenono

Member
Oct 16, 2017
138
316
At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime
technically it can be argued that it is:

"wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"

there's a legal name for the above, ill let you check that one yourself......

(for disclaimer purposes this isnt a personal opinion, nor an accusation simply providing "facts" as some are overly fond of)
 

lostraven

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Apr 27, 2017
2,902
12,898
Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.
Also for anyone interested in how Patreon handles Money laundering, as a lot of people have never actually seen this side of things),

As someone who has used Patreon's system as a content creator and has had money flagged up 'due to it being possibly money laundering', here's how it works.

The algorithm works by quantity X time, for example, if someone was to 'donate' three thousand dollars straight up the money would be suspended and you talk to a Patreon staff member via email to explain the situation. You present your case and evidence and once you pass that you get to withdraw your money.

For me, and my work on Taffy Tales especially, this is a pain in the ass as I just use it as a portal payment for some content creators.

But, for people actually trying to launder money, it's a good barrier for large scale laundering...Though every system has cracks if you know what to look for.

There are two ways money launders could exploit the Patreon system from what I've deduced.

1.) The obvious way. Multiple small payments across a long period of time, the algorithm simply won't pick up on lots of small donations from everywhere. (Though this would be an absolute nightmare with the number of bank cards needed to do on a large scale like this).

2.) Goes back to the quantity X algorithm I mentioned earlier, once someone submits and 'proves' their claim is legitimate, the algorithm won't pick up on it if it is left as a repeatable monthly payment after the approval. For example, if someone is donating 1-3K thousand dollars a month, as long as the Patron doesn't alter their payment plan and has passed the censor, the money will continue to pass through as the algorithm has already registered it as a pass, (unless as stated they do it as a one-off payment and then try re-submit) until human eyes actually look at it and go 'Huh...Jimmy 69 has donated a thousand dollars every month to the same dev for the last eight months now...'

Do I think Gumdrops is laundering Money?
If he is, I imagine he'd be far more likely to do it through his site than through Patreon where he'd have more control to balance the books etc and not have the Patron censor leaning in so much, on his site, he'd only have to balance the books for Paypal.
Neither of the methods I've mentioned is particularly practical given the number of Patrons he has. If he IS laundering money through the Patreon, it's probably small scale and mixed in with actual donations.

Conspiracy theories aside though,
It's more than likely he's just a Dev who clearly understands how to exploit the hell of sunk fallacy cost and how to exploit marketing in an industry that heavily relies on self-regulation when it comes to actual 'quality' through sites like F95 that *Ahem* don't have a lot of legal power when it comes to actually stopping these devs.

Is Gumdrops a liar? Yes
Is he incompetent? Yes
Is he a con artist? Most likely
Is he a money launder? ...Meh.

It wouldn't be the first time I've seen Devs be wildly supporting by fanatical fans too deep into something to back out, plenty of devs have come and gone before *cough* Team Nimbus *Cough* Wootch *Cough* Aorrta with similar strategies. You keep the front of house clean, make it look presentable, release enough of a 'good' product to keep people hooked and then just release constant teasers with ready-made excuses why you couldn't make the deadline and folks will support you, either blindly following, or stumbling onto it unaware of the bullshit going on back of shop.

Now if you want to talk about something far more credible legally in a case against gumdrops,
I think you could definitely make one for False Advertising.
 

sob

Newbie
Apr 3, 2017
93
286
Well just to inform some people here: .
Patreon CEO and co-founder says "we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity".
So it is possible to launder money through Patreon as the owner of Patreon itself says it.
Just so we are clear about that narrative that Patreon takes care of everything and it's not possible to launder money and do "other illegal activities" there.
I could even explain through 3 or 4 examples how to launder money on Patreon and other similar platforms but this is not the place to discuss how to do 'illegal activities".
 

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,556
Now if you want to talk about something far more credible legally in a case against gumdrops,
I think you could definitely make one for False Advertising.
That would probably only apply in regards of his steam release though. As patreon is based on donations, and not a purchase of goods. He also said a few times over that people shouldn't support/pledge if they think it take to long before release. If people still throw money at him, that would be on them. There so much noise about him and this game now that if someone does a google and still support, it's a bit like read a bad review and still go with it. If people throw money at someone without check anything first, that's on them too.
 

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,556
Well just to inform some people here: .
Patreon CEO and co-founder says "we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity".
So it is possible to launder money through Patreon as the owner of Patreon itself says it.
Just so we are clear about that narrative that Patreon takes care of everything and it's not possible to launder money and do "other illegal activities" there.
I could even explain through 3 or 4 examples how to launder money on Patreon and other similar platforms but this is not the place to discuss how to do 'illegal activities".
Because no one does any illegal activities on a pirate site....

It's nice you included the reference link, but probably been nice to include the full quote as well.

"And as Patreon gets more mainstream, we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity, requiring teams of product managers, engineers, and operations folks, just to maintain the status quo. All of that work is invisible from the outside. "

So they are maintaining status quo. You could always set up some shady shit on patreon and see if they catch on.
 

lostraven

Engaged Member
Donor
Game Developer
Apr 27, 2017
2,902
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That would probably only apply in regards of his steam release though. As patreon is based on donations, and not a purchase of goods. He also said a few times over that people shouldn't support/pledge if they think it take to long before release. If people still throw money at him, that would be on them. There so much noise about him and this game now that if someone does a google and still support, it's a bit like read a bad review and still go with it. If people throw money at someone without check anything first, that's on them too.
The false advertisement would come in from the time line of false promises he's failed to meet, you could at this point literally prove he has consistently failed to meet any deadlines despite numerous sworn guarantees all there in writing, Incompetence? Maybe, but over such a prolonged period and so systematically, it definitely raises issues of fraudulent activity and deceptive practices.
 

Jeancul

Member
Mar 17, 2017
358
567
So Gumdrop is actualy a local drogues drugs dealer who use patreon to drop all is money on a legal activity ?… :unsure:
That explain why all that non sense about why he get 7k-10k per month for nothing after all this time :LOL: !
 
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Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,556
The false advertisement would come in from the time line of false promises he's failed to meet, you could at this point literally prove he has consistently failed to meet any deadlines despite numerous sworn guarantees all there in writing, Incompetence? Maybe, but over such a prolonged period and so systematically, it definitely raises issues of fraudulent activity and deceptive practices.
It kinda changes when it go from donation based to a store front with a set price tag up front. But reading into what he posted on steam, I don't think you can nail him for it there either. He says part X will be released as a stand alone installment after it get released on his own site, and no time frame given for any of it.

Just about any game released main stream or not, can be pointed at for false advertisement, but nothing really comes out of it, other than the creators behind gain a bad reputation.

GD at this point sort of turned into the adult games version of Derek Smart.
 

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,556
So Gumdrop is actualy a local drogues dealer who use patreon to drop all is money on a legal activity ?… :unsure:
That explain why all that non sense about why he get 7k-10k per month for nothing after all this time :LOL: !
"A drogue is a device trailed behind a boat on a long line attached to the stern. A drogue is used to slow the boat down in a storm...."

I guess GD could need a drogue at this point... lol
 

Jeancul

Member
Mar 17, 2017
358
567
"A drogue is a device trailed behind a boat on a long line attached to the stern. A drogue is used to slow the boat down in a storm...."

I guess GD could need a drogue at this point... lol
Drugs i mean ! Drogue is the word in french, sorry ;)
 

sob

Newbie
Apr 3, 2017
93
286
Well, well you're so into shady tactics that you confused me with gumdrop. I included the link exactly so that people could click it and read it all.

First of all "just to maintain the status quo " in this context means what the CEO said later: "The compounding complexity, infrastructure, process, humans, and capital required, just to keep up, is practically unfathomable."

Second point is regardless of how you turn it around there was, there is and there will be money laundering and illegal activity on Patreon. We just don't know yet which of the creators there are doing it until Patreon enforces its "status quo".

They banned adult content from public view because the "status quo" at that time included real child pornography, rape, abuse, bestiality not just games and drawings. Same with Tumblr.

The only "status quo" is that if investors demand change the status quo will change.
 

Bunta

Member
May 6, 2018
198
468
How to make money with your porn game:

>release some news with long texts about fucking nothing
>long periods without any news about anything
>stupid excuses to justify the delay and missed deadlines
>ban everyone who shows insactisfaction with your "job"
>repeat

1569533622285.png
 
2.10 star(s) 189 Votes