VN Ren'Py Dual Family [v1.22.1ce] [Gumdrop Games]

[Bonhart]

today has posted another vote, for me it is clear that it is all a fiction


(Sorry my english)

 

[Joshua Tree]

If you have an illegal business where customers only spend a tiny amount/commission, then this scheme could work, there would be no suspicious activity on their end as quantities would be too low and could be easily explained by them as a result of being "fans of the game". You set up a patreon (added to the alternative payment method on his site) to collect all payments and when questioned about it you can always claim it's for a game you are developing, denying the existence of your real business. The end result is that dirty money from an undisclosed, potentially illegal business ends up in your account. You would use the facade to justify those movements if questioned/inspected by authorities.

Since the fake "business" basically runs for free (as a result of being a scam), it costs nothing to keep it alive and to inflate numbers (increased "patrons") without having to match them with increased costs. One of the reasons why hotels or restaurants are often used to launder money (on top of being able to deal with cash).

Regardless of whether he is laundering money or not, what we do know for sure is that this guy is a scammer whose true nature, countless lies and scummy tactics should be exposed, at least until he admits what he is really doing.

Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.

 

[Deleted member 1150609]

Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.

"Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through."

Nope, it wouldn't. Did you read what I wrote? if your illegal business has many small customers, then activity would be easily concealed by the Patreon front you would instruct your customers to use. That's the whole point.

"Money launder works where physical money changes hand."

You are choosing a restrictive definition you made up to try to exonerate this scammer of being a potential money launderer because we all know what you are doing here since forever. In reality, we don't know what he is really doing besides scamming. But you could launder money through Patreon if your illegal business has many small customers. It's not impossible as you imply.

"At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime,"

Why are you so obsessed with repeating this line? literally every time you try to defend this scammer you say something along these lines: "this is not a crime, nothing to see here folks, move along". Quite suspicious if you ask me.

"Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic."

You are the only one on this thread who still defends this scammer. Clearly, you have a problem with people exposing this dude. Don't pretend you only have a problem with "unfounded allegations", you have a problem with all criticism.

Bottom line, this guy is a scammer whose tactics should keep being exposed. Garbage people like this dude are cancer to society. Nothing you say will change that, as the scam becomes more evident than ever.

 

[Joshua Tree]

"Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through."

Nope, it wouldn't. Did you read what I wrote? if your illegal business has many small customers, then activity would be easily concealed by the Patreon front you would instruct your customers to use. That's the whole point.

"Money launder works where physical money changes hand."

You are choosing a restrictive definition you made up to try to exonerate this scammer of being a potential money launderer because we all know what you are doing here since forever. In reality, we don't know what he is really doing besides scamming. But you could launder money through Patreon if your illegal business has many small customers. It's not impossible as you imply.

"At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime,"

Why are you so obsessed with repeating this line? literally every time you try to defend this scammer you say something along these lines: "this is not a crime, nothing to see here folks, move along". Quite suspicious if you ask me.

"Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic."

You are the only one on this thread who still defends this scammer. Clearly, you have a problem with people exposing this dude. Don't pretend you only have a problem with "unfounded allegations", you have a problem with all criticism.

Bottom line, this guy is a scammer whose tactics should keep being exposed. Garbage people like this dude are cancer to society. Nothing you say will change that, as the scam becomes more evident than ever.

I'm trying to stay grounded in reality where concept of proof is the governing factor. If I repeat something, it's because its a fact and proven. What crime can you prove taken place? I mean not your opinion, because, just like assholes, everyone got those. So actual proof?

There is no need to expose him for breaking his word when he done such a good job at that himself. When I state he been deceiving and not truthful, that isn't critics?

Internet is filled with garbage people, among them you find those that throw out accusations without valid claim as well.
I got no problem with expose people/whatever if there is evidence and facts to back it up.

Don't be a dotard....

 

[thenono]

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime

technically it can be argued that it is:

"wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"

there's a legal name for the above, ill let you check that one yourself......

(for disclaimer purposes this isnt a personal opinion, nor an accusation simply providing "facts" as some are overly fond of)

 

[lostraven]

Consider the payment methods that Patreon does cover. Money launder would be hard to pull off, as you would need so many accounts/cards to pull it through. I would like to see you manage to funnel 10k through patreon a month with what options they give. What he pull off on his alternative payment, idk. But that isn't tracked through Patreon either though.

Money launder works where physical money changes hand. The name itself have its origin in laundromats after all. Using money with digital footprint to launder money is silly and services such as resturants and similar work great. Of more recent I read about, inflate gym memberships etc. The people GD would require to have involved in such through Patreon would be ludacris.

At best he deceived and lied to people about progress and release dates of his game. Of which is not a crime, what is more criminal in that regard is people supporting him. But seeing the great flux in his numbers, the chance of he got a long term fan base of any size left supporting him is rather slim. He said before, (several times), that if people sick of waiting for a update, they should stop pledge to him. Kinda in line with the "don't push the red button". If people still do, that is on them right? It's not like he begging people to support him. Heck, if you look at that Harry potter game or what it's called on this site. The dev there almost held players ransom and said he wouldn't update it if he didn't get x amount.

Call out people for what they actually are and do should be plenty without apply all kinda unproven stuff on top. It just make people look toxic.

Also for anyone interested in how Patreon handles Money laundering, as a lot of people have never actually seen this side of things),

As someone who has used Patreon's system as a content creator and has had money flagged up 'due to it being possibly money laundering', here's how it works.

The algorithm works by quantity X time, for example, if someone was to 'donate' three thousand dollars straight up the money would be suspended and you talk to a Patreon staff member via email to explain the situation. You present your case and evidence and once you pass that you get to withdraw your money.

For me, and my work on Taffy Tales especially, this is a pain in the ass as I just use it as a portal payment for some content creators.

But, for people actually trying to launder money, it's a good barrier for large scale laundering...Though every system has cracks if you know what to look for.

There are two ways money launders could exploit the Patreon system from what I've deduced.

1.) The obvious way. Multiple small payments across a long period of time, the algorithm simply won't pick up on lots of small donations from everywhere. (Though this would be an absolute nightmare with the number of bank cards needed to do on a large scale like this).

2.) Goes back to the quantity X algorithm I mentioned earlier, once someone submits and 'proves' their claim is legitimate, the algorithm won't pick up on it if it is left as a repeatable monthly payment after the approval. For example, if someone is donating 1-3K thousand dollars a month, as long as the Patron doesn't alter their payment plan and has passed the censor, the money will continue to pass through as the algorithm has already registered it as a pass, (unless as stated they do it as a one-off payment and then try re-submit) until human eyes actually look at it and go 'Huh...Jimmy 69 has donated a thousand dollars every month to the same dev for the last eight months now...'

Do I think Gumdrops is laundering Money?
If he is, I imagine he'd be far more likely to do it through his site than through Patreon where he'd have more control to balance the books etc and not have the Patron censor leaning in so much, on his site, he'd only have to balance the books for Paypal.
Neither of the methods I've mentioned is particularly practical given the number of Patrons he has. If he IS laundering money through the Patreon, it's probably small scale and mixed in with actual donations.

Conspiracy theories aside though,
It's more than likely he's just a Dev who clearly understands how to exploit the hell of sunk fallacy cost and how to exploit marketing in an industry that heavily relies on self-regulation when it comes to actual 'quality' through sites like F95 that *Ahem* don't have a lot of legal power when it comes to actually stopping these devs.

Is Gumdrops a liar? Yes
Is he incompetent? Yes
Is he a con artist? Most likely
Is he a money launder? ...Meh.

It wouldn't be the first time I've seen Devs be wildly supporting by fanatical fans too deep into something to back out, plenty of devs have come and gone before *cough* Team Nimbus *Cough* Wootch *Cough* Aorrta with similar strategies. You keep the front of house clean, make it look presentable, release enough of a 'good' product to keep people hooked and then just release constant teasers with ready-made excuses why you couldn't make the deadline and folks will support you, either blindly following, or stumbling onto it unaware of the bullshit going on back of shop.

Now if you want to talk about something far more credible legally in a case against gumdrops,
I think you could definitely make one for False Advertising.

 

[sob]

Well just to inform some people here:

You must be registered to see the links

.
Patreon CEO and co-founder says "we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity".
So it is possible to launder money through Patreon as the owner of Patreon itself says it.
Just so we are clear about that narrative that Patreon takes care of everything and it's not possible to launder money and do "other illegal activities" there.
I could even explain through 3 or 4 examples how to launder money on Patreon and other similar platforms but this is not the place to discuss how to do 'illegal activities".

 

[Joshua Tree]

Now if you want to talk about something far more credible legally in a case against gumdrops,
I think you could definitely make one for False Advertising.

That would probably only apply in regards of his steam release though. As patreon is based on donations, and not a purchase of goods. He also said a few times over that people shouldn't support/pledge if they think it take to long before release. If people still throw money at him, that would be on them. There so much noise about him and this game now that if someone does a google and still support, it's a bit like read a bad review and still go with it. If people throw money at someone without check anything first, that's on them too.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Well just to inform some people here:

You must be registered to see the links

.
Patreon CEO and co-founder says "we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity".
So it is possible to launder money through Patreon as the owner of Patreon itself says it.
Just so we are clear about that narrative that Patreon takes care of everything and it's not possible to launder money and do "other illegal activities" there.
I could even explain through 3 or 4 examples how to launder money on Patreon and other similar platforms but this is not the place to discuss how to do 'illegal activities".

Because no one does any illegal activities on a pirate site....

It's nice you included the reference link, but probably been nice to include the full quote as well.

"And as Patreon gets more mainstream, we see increasingly more fraud, money laundering and other illegal activity, requiring teams of product managers, engineers, and operations folks, just to maintain the status quo. All of that work is invisible from the outside. "

So they are maintaining status quo. You could always set up some shady shit on patreon and see if they catch on.

 

[lostraven]

That would probably only apply in regards of his steam release though. As patreon is based on donations, and not a purchase of goods. He also said a few times over that people shouldn't support/pledge if they think it take to long before release. If people still throw money at him, that would be on them. There so much noise about him and this game now that if someone does a google and still support, it's a bit like read a bad review and still go with it. If people throw money at someone without check anything first, that's on them too.

The false advertisement would come in from the time line of false promises he's failed to meet, you could at this point literally prove he has consistently failed to meet any deadlines despite numerous sworn guarantees all there in writing, Incompetence? Maybe, but over such a prolonged period and so systematically, it definitely raises issues of fraudulent activity and deceptive practices.

 

[Jeancul]

So Gumdrop is actualy a local drogues drugs dealer who use patreon to drop all is money on a legal activity ?…
That explain why all that non sense about why he get 7k-10k per month for nothing after all this time !

 

[Joshua Tree]

The false advertisement would come in from the time line of false promises he's failed to meet, you could at this point literally prove he has consistently failed to meet any deadlines despite numerous sworn guarantees all there in writing, Incompetence? Maybe, but over such a prolonged period and so systematically, it definitely raises issues of fraudulent activity and deceptive practices.

It kinda changes when it go from donation based to a store front with a set price tag up front. But reading into what he posted on steam, I don't think you can nail him for it there either. He says part X will be released as a stand alone installment after it get released on his own site, and no time frame given for any of it.

Just about any game released main stream or not, can be pointed at for false advertisement, but nothing really comes out of it, other than the creators behind gain a bad reputation.

GD at this point sort of turned into the adult games version of Derek Smart.

 

[Joshua Tree]

So Gumdrop is actualy a local drogues dealer who use patreon to drop all is money on a legal activity ?…
That explain why all that non sense about why he get 7k-10k per month for nothing after all this time !

"A drogue is a device trailed behind a boat on a long line attached to the stern. A drogue is used to slow the boat down in a storm...."

I guess GD could need a drogue at this point... lol

 

[Jeancul]

"A drogue is a device trailed behind a boat on a long line attached to the stern. A drogue is used to slow the boat down in a storm...."

I guess GD could need a drogue at this point... lol

Drugs i mean ! Drogue is the word in french, sorry

 

[sob]

Well, well you're so into shady tactics that you confused me with gumdrop. I included the link exactly so that people could click it and read it all.

First of all "just to maintain the status quo " in this context means what the CEO said later: "The compounding complexity, infrastructure, process, humans, and capital required, just to keep up, is practically unfathomable."

Second point is regardless of how you turn it around there was, there is and there will be money laundering and illegal activity on Patreon. We just don't know yet which of the creators there are doing it until Patreon enforces its "status quo".

They banned adult content from public view because the "status quo" at that time included real child pornography, rape, abuse, bestiality not just games and drawings. Same with Tumblr.

The only "status quo" is that if investors demand change the status quo will change.

 

[Bunta]

How to make money with your porn game:

>release some news with long texts about fucking nothing
>long periods without any news about anything
>stupid excuses to justify the delay and missed deadlines
>ban everyone who shows insactisfaction with your "job"
>repeat

 

[Trapezio]

Most people here are amazed that so many Patrons still fund this Gumdrop guy... BUT I am mostly amazed that some people even reply to Joshua Tree's posts

This is so shocking

 

[MegaV]

wow its been like what two years since an actual main story update for this game?

I don't get why everything just goes round in circles on this thread, yeah seems like he's just one of those lazy devs who just cashes checks but hey people can pull their support at any time on Patreon, so I just don't see the issue why the resentful posts....

I can understand some of the members here being pissed if they supported the game but there are far better games out there, both graphically and story wise yet this thread is approaching 500 pages, I mean yeah if you supported and didnt get an update then yeah that's annoying as hell but if like me and never given the guy a dime then i'm not going to complain, I bet most of the pages only contain people running down GumDrop....

First time I checked in on this page for ages and the same conversations are happening lol, I personally don't think this game is worth all the fuss that's been kicked up over it, there are far better ones out there to be honest....

 

[whippetmaster]

Just try this scenario: Someone sells drugs and needs a legit method to declare income. He gets a few people in his group to get rechargeable credit cards, set up multiple Patreon accounts, and submit monthly payments. Then he disburses the cash to them and they take a cut of it for the trouble. When they get low, they simply go the business where they can load the rechargeable credit card to deposit the cash into the card then use the card on Patreon or his own site.
So he CAN be money laundering through that method. Money laundering is simply a process of turning illegal money into legal funds.

 

[LazyName]

As we all know in between selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of drugs and organziing groups of people to launder money its common to actually write out and render images of smut. Hes a shitty dev profiting off of the sunk cost fallacy and the fact that most other porn games are honestly pretty shit. It doesnt need to be more complicated than that.