VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[FanOfEcchiSensei]

Cool, but you still don't get to fucking label is as deceptive, you can be wrong as many times as you want, and still be completely open and honest about the fact you think things are gonna be fine. They are paying the consequences for what is happening, they don't need to also have inaccurate labelling done to them just because you think that honesty is somehow subjective.

Being a hapless idiot who trusts that shit will work out, does not make one a liar when it doesn't. There is no god damn time limit that makes it okay to accuse someone, just because they suck at what they do. You can mock the fact they have been failing to put out a merge for an entire year, attack the fact that they suck at this (I don't blame anyone who does this, cause its true).

This however does not give you license to attack someone's integrity just because you're pissed off, you're building up a strawman argument using a basis of a perceived deception on the part of the developer. What is actually happening is an inexperienced man is floundering as his project fails due to mismanagement of a situation and delays from his lead employee. You know, like a legitimate business will do when it as well begins to go belly up for the same fucking reason and nobody accuses it of being illegitimate.

But it is deceptive? Unless he pauses pledges until the merge is 100% done and released, it is 100% deceptive towards potential patreons. There is no innacurate labeling done when calling someone who's lied about the state of the game for over a year, a liar.
I for sure hope that after over a year of working on the merge, BC has learned to stop being a "hapless idiot who trusts that shit will work out", and be someone who makes sure shit GETS done.

The merge was "Almost done" in december 2020. We're in december 2021, after being promised the game would be released this year at the expense of charinfo. Only to find out INDIRECTLY, that it's not happening. Not even just "not happening", but not even close (again) as apparently the testers do not even have their hands on an alpha build.

As someone who's been deceived out of money by lies and false promises, (we don't technically pay patreon for the game, however let's be real. We pay for the game) I have the right to be upset.
I did not attack his integrity, I stated that based on experiences the past 1+ year, he's a liar. Which is a proven fact.

Is your name supposed to be ironic?

No? I would not stick this much time in a game I hate. I am a fan of the game, I just think the developer sucks. Being a fan of the game =/= being a fan of BC. That's like saying if you like a movie, you automatically have to like the producer/director as well.

 

[kiribito]

Why don't the admins just nuke this thread or label it as abandoned? I think many people look into this forum for games to support, and having something like this up without the proper abandoned tag is quite deceiving.

 

[FanOfEcchiSensei]

Why don't the admins just nuke this thread or label it as abandoned? I think many people look into this forum for games to support, and having something like this up without the proper abandoned tag is quite deceiving.

Because "Abandoned" tag would ruin the last few patreons he gets from this site, every 2.5 months he posts a status update (with pretty much nothing), as the site rule is 3 months with no info from the developer

 

[AnimeKing314]

Because "Abandoned" tag would ruin the last few patreons he gets from this site, every 2.5 months he posts a status update (with pretty much nothing), as the site rule is 3 months with no info from the developer

What's funniest about that is that in his discord, he openly hates on f95 because everyone here is a pirate (even though I'm sure at least half of his support if not more originated from here) so he hasn't actually posted on here for at least the entire merge. Since the last year of "updates" has been paywalled I for one think they shouldn't count as info from the dev that the game should be marked as abandoned. If he really cares enough about us to avoid the tag then let him post here personally with an actual update or at least make an update that isn't paywalled.

If he openly doesn't care about this site then an abandoned tag here shouldn't bother him.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

This game used to make nearly 7k per month. This merge failure is probably the worst self-inflicted wound a developer, or at least a fairly well known one, has ever done.

This entire situation was easily avoided too, there is really no reason to merge the game. There isn't a need for extra stuff like phones or character sheets. And even if you did need that stuff, it's all been done before. So a decent programmer shouldn't have much of an issue. If worst comes to worst, just copy someone else's code from another game.

Actually at its peak it made 15k a month, so yeah, massive losses. As well, you gotta remember, 20% of that cash goes to Patreon's pockets, and then taxation takes a nice healthy chunk as well. I don't think people fully understand how business expenses and taxes work. Revenue is not profit, and all you see is the revenue factor on the site, not all the back end where shit gets paid out to everyone's cuts.

Beyond that, there is no need for an abandoned tag, as the game is still in active development whether you want to listen to what I say or not. So long as I have at least some information and continued interactions, I do believe I count as dev activity. I do not get paid for my volunteer work but Bluecat and I are friends, being completely transparent, and I enjoy helping.

It is gonna be fucking uphill battle to clean this thing up once this nightmare is over, I do not look forward to it, but I am a man of my word so I'll be sticking around. I'd say everyone chill out for the holiday season, enjoy the last few weeks of the year, and once the year is up, I'll have an update on the status of shit. I'mma go back to being lurky mcgee now, I have a tremendous fucking headache from dehydration.

 

[sam1234567]

well with 2 weeks to go until he has to meet his new deadline and no new status update since the last one i think its safe to say the merge isnt happening at least not the way it was meant to, heres hoping we at least get the basic renpy merge

 

[RandoCard3]

Being wrong once, I agree. Being wrong twice, I agree. Being wrong 3x, starting to get a little suspicious.

Being wrong and feeding us info that turns out to be wrong (again...), is lying.

There are people out there that think licking surfaces in a public shop is both moral and smart. There's no cap on stupidity and incompetence.

No one's denying that they've cocked this up to a ludicrous extent, but as Skummy said, that doesn't mean they're trying to con their fanbase. Honestly, I think assuming BC and his team could pull of a scam like that, is giving them to much credit.

This entire situation was easily avoided too, there is really no reason to merge the game.

No, there was. Even someone like me, who has no knowledge of coding, understands that you need a solid foundation if you want to build on top of it. The early releases were janky as fuck, and would have definitely caused problems going forward. It's worth remembering that despite it's release cycle, Ecchi Sense is a single game, not a bunch of smaller games. What effects one part, will eventually come into contact with the others.

If they actually manage to get it out the door, and in a better state than the first merge, then this will probably be a good thing in the long run. That's a dubious "if" at the moment though, unfortunately.

well with 2 weeks to go until he has to meet his new deadline and no new status update since the last one i think its safe to say the merge isnt happening at least not the way it was meant to, heres hoping we at least get the basic renpy merge

Seems likely, but I don't think it's safe to say anything until the day. As far as we know, they're waiting until they're absolutely sure it's going to happen, so as to not wrongfully promise anything like has happened in the past.

I do wish they'd stop being coy about what this back up plan they've alluded to is though. It's just a capstone to their poor communication this whole year.

 

[Dukez]

I think Skummy's comments on deception etc earlier while replaying to FanOf was moreso probably directed at me (though I guess at others in a general sense too) since I called him a scammer etc recently.

I just think his dishonest. You can be a dishonest person while telling nothing but 'truths' and that's in general how I feel about BlueCat after this period of time.

I'm not sure why Skummy gets upset, I can get it on a personal level when you care about something you don't want to see it fail etc but on a business level he brought this upon himself and at any point in the past year could've pivoted his plans to bring him out of this state and has yet to do so. Even now, 2 weeks away from a deadline with zero communication we've heard nothing to say if it'll be released this month as previously scheduled or if the other plan has now come into effect because he SHOULD know by now and he should've already let his patrons know.

Saying his inexperienced is a crutch. I don't know exact timings but going off when this thread started, July 13 2018, he has had MORE than enough time to turn that inexperience into experience to successfully (not saying he has to thrive) navigate the waters his been sailing through the past year or so.

On top of the fact that he should hire another programmer, maybe he should also hire a producer that can track and work out exactly how long something should take so he can create accurate time frames on releases when it starts falling behind schedule...

 

[hotdog10101]

Rain Check: Nothing yet (no suprise there) blue ca.... naah nvm dont want to start something ,might offend dev's supporters

Anyways

Advance Happy holidays guys

cheers

 

[GuacamoleBen]

I really liked the game though i only played to about day 4. I stopped because i saw there was a merge coming.

Personally i just struggle with the decision to either play the game as separate releases or wait. I've such a "sunk cost" with waiting this far, i'll just keep on holding on.

As a consumer of a paid product you can choose to not pay in the future OR actually be angry if you think you were misled. I think that's reasonable. Ascribing malicious intent i think is just petulant - I really do believe Skummy that BC intends to continue this and it is his passion. Either he's just milking it and has no intent to continue (which would be douchy but I definitely do not believe to be the case) or it really is just that he's struggled with getting the right development progress. All of our harassment only serves to make it MORE likely BC will just say fuck it and move on. As i mentioned that I believe this seems like it would be his passion, I see absolutely no value in delaying his release or purposefully deceiving / alienating / losing a once strong customer base. He's losing a lot of money.

I see no reason to ascribe malicious intent to skummy for distributing bad timelines either. There's even less of a reason for him to be purposeful or maliciously deceiving. And in the most recent posts from Skummy we can see he is frustrated too. Feel better dude and thanks for putting up with the trolls.

If you're not a paying user (ie not Patreon supporter) and just consuming for free, just stfu and/or thank BC if you enjoy whatever you're getting for free. Honestly even in the current state it's one of my favorite games in terms of writing and animation.

Also, as a 25+ year IT project management professional (yeah i'm old), I can confirm that:
- Development almost never goes to plan
- Developers are often not the most accurate in terms of status and timelines. And i deal with professionals who are dedicated to my projects. I can't imagine using someone who has a real day job.
- It is VERY hard to know when to make the "fish or cut bait" decision to scrap something and start from scratch, or to lose all of your current team'sknowledge do a transition to different developer(s). Yes if this was done 10 months ago we'd likely be in a better position. Only the internal team knows how close we are and if we can gain in the short/mid term by taking pretty massive steps back.
- It may be a good idea for BC to do something for his most loyal fan base for free once he is able to. Maybe even just something like the halloween special just for patreons. who have stuck with him......... See above for how much he owes to free-subscribers like me.

So, with that in mind, thanks BC for a pretty awesome game so far, I hope to see the merged version soon..

 

[PrimeGuy]

I really liked the game though i only played to about day 4. I stopped because i saw there was a merge coming.

Personally i just struggle with the decision to either play the game as separate releases or wait. I've such a "sunk cost" with waiting this far, i'll just keep on holding on.

As a consumer of a paid product you can choose to not pay in the future OR actually be angry if you think you were misled. I think that's reasonable. Ascribing malicious intent i think is just petulant - I really do believe Skummy that BC intends to continue this and it is his passion. Either he's just milking it and has no intent to continue (which would be douchy but I definitely do not believe to be the case) or it really is just that he's struggled with getting the right development progress. All of our harassment only serves to make it MORE likely BC will just say fuck it and move on. As i mentioned that I believe this seems like it would be his passion, I see absolutely no value in delaying his release or purposefully deceiving / alienating / losing a once strong customer base. He's losing a lot of money.

I see no reason to ascribe malicious intent to skummy for distributing bad timelines either. There's even less of a reason for him to be purposeful or maliciously deceiving. And in the most recent posts from Skummy we can see he is frustrated too. Feel better dude and thanks for putting up with the trolls.

If you're not a paying user (ie not Patreon supporter) and just consuming for free, just stfu and/or thank BC if you enjoy whatever you're getting for free. Honestly even in the current state it's one of my favorite games in terms of writing and animation.

Also, as a 25+ year IT project management professional (yeah i'm old), I can confirm that:
- Development almost never goes to plan
- Developers are often not the most accurate in terms of status and timelines. And i deal with professionals who are dedicated to my projects. I can't imagine using someone who has a real day job.
- It is VERY hard to know when to make the "fish or cut bait" decision to scrap something and start from scratch, or to lose all of your current team'sknowledge do a transition to different developer(s). Yes if this was done 10 months ago we'd likely be in a better position. Only the internal team knows how close we are and if we can gain in the short/mid term by taking pretty massive steps back.
- It may be a good idea for BC to do something for his most loyal fan base for free once he is able to. Maybe even just something like the halloween special just for patreons. who have stuck with him......... See above for how much he owes to free-subscribers like me.

So, with that in mind, thanks BC for a pretty awesome game so far, I hope to see the merged version soon..

I very much appreciate your point of view. There's a lot of good information in there. The only thing I'd like to add to the discussion, though, is that when you subscribe to Patreon you're not purchasing a product. You're funding the production process, and that's a difference that a lot of people don't understand.

Even in a professional business sense, there's no guarantees when you're funding a production. If the movie you fund flops, you don't get your money back. If it goes over budget, and doesn't get finished, all you get to do is cut your losses. Patreon is a similar thing. People should be aware of this before subscribing.

Do I think that those who have been funding and never stopped deserve something for their loyalty? Absolutely. Do I think that people who subscribed, and found they missed a date for a release are entitled to be livid, and abusive? No, I do not. (not even here, where how long it's been missed by is so extreme - they had the option to cancel at any time) When this happens, as a patreon, you have the option to either stop subscribing until you get what you were promised, or keep subscribing and hope the funding helps to make what you want come out sooner, even if it's late.

Did I subscribe to this VN? No. And I probably won't any time soon. If I had, would I have stuck it out? No, though I might've hung on for a couple months of missed deadlines before dropping the sub. If you're hanging on, I personally applaud your loyalty, and the fact that you're probably ensuring that the project has the possibility of continuing. That's your choice, though, so anyone who's upset about how long they've held on without "getting the product they paid for" doesn't really understand the way patreon, and subscribestar, etc, are intended to work.

 

[Wacky Woohoo Pizza Man]

Also, as a 25+ year IT project management professional (yeah i'm old), I can confirm that:
- Development almost never goes to plan
- Developers are often not the most accurate in terms of status and timelines. And i deal with professionals who are dedicated to my projects. I can't imagine using someone who has a real day job.
- It is VERY hard to know when to make the "fish or cut bait" decision to scrap something and start from scratch, or to lose all of your current team'sknowledge do a transition to different developer(s). Yes if this was done 10 months ago we'd likely be in a better position. Only the internal team knows how close we are and if we can gain in the short/mid term by taking pretty massive steps back.
- It may be a good idea for BC to do something for his most loyal fan base for free once he is able to. Maybe even just something like the halloween special just for patreons. who have stuck with him......... See above for how much he owes to free-subscribers like me.

So, with that in mind, thanks BC for a pretty awesome game so far, I hope to see the merged version soon..

As a project manager how do you deal with a deadline failure of 1 year+ length, or even 1 month+?
Lets have an honest answer here. Lets also assume the employ was being paid 2000$+ each month for the whole year as well.

 

[Smarmint]

Well, there is no sense shooting the messenger. Whatever we think of Bluecat's lack of progress, it isn't Skummy's fault. If he weren't here, we wouldn't have any info at all.

I think while nobody can say what Bluecat's true motivations have been over the last year, the fact that he has been nearly silent the entire time, even on his Patreon, and when he did release a status update, just under the wire to keep the game from being marked abandoned, it was either vague, totally misleading about what was specifically was going on as far as actual game development, or both. I suspect that he just decided to take a break from the game, waiting for Latecomer to complete the merge as an excuse for taking a year+ vacation from game development. Whether Bluecat has the motivation to restart development in January, I guess we will all see pretty quickly one way or the other.

But that is just my guess based on the evidence shown so far, maybe he has a whole load of new content saved up that he has worked on during the last year, just waiting to release, which we will all see shortly, once the merge deadline hits in January.

There are still a few more weeks for the deadline, so I would say it's best to just try to be patient at least until then, until we hear, hopefully, what the new plan is, hopefully with actual release dates, rather than just more "we are working on it, be patient" for the next 6 to 12 months.

I don't know what the new year will bring for ES. It seems like the "put up or shut up" moment for Ecchi Sensei. Either Bluecat will release new content, in some reasonable time frame in 2022, or he won't. Other than a few of his hardcore patrons, which seem to me to have more money than sense at this point, I doubt many of his supporters or those of us hanging around here will stick around for another year of waiting for new content.

 

[RandoCard3]

My issue with all the accusations of scams, is that, if you really think about, only a fucking buffoon would see it as a good idea. Who in their right mind would tank their reputation for a quick buck, when bigger profits for a longer period of time can be gained from simply committing to what you said.

Even the greediest of devs can see that it's just not worth it.

Anyway, for the sake of keeping my post on topic. Which of the girls do you think will take it in the arse, and which do you think will remain anal virgins for the whole ingame year? Not counting T8s, due to their unreliable nature.

 

[Wolfen5]

My issue with all the accusations of scams, is that, if you really think about, only a fucking buffoon would see it as a good idea. Who in their right mind would tank their reputation for a quick buck, when bigger profits for a longer period of time can be gained from simply committing to what you said.

Even the greediest of devs can see that it's just not worth it.

Anyway, for the sake of keeping my post on topic. Which of the girls do you think will take it in the arse, and which do you think will remain anal virgins for the whole ingame year? Not counting T8s, due to their unreliable nature.

The flaw in your argument is it's only true if BC stays a dev making games. If, perchance, he's found a salary job and is content in the change, then it's plausible to say that "milking" the existing patrons until it runs out just to have that pittance of extra income is within the realm of possibility.
Now, I'm not saying this is the case, nor do I believe this is happening but given the circumstances, any outcome is possible and would not surprise me one bit anymore.

 

[RandoCard3]

The flaw in your argument is it's only true if BC stays a dev making games. If, perchance, he's found a salary job and is content in the change, then it's plausible to say that "milking" the existing patrons until it runs out just to have that pittance of extra income is within the realm of possibility.
Now, I'm not saying this is the case, nor do I believe this is happening but given the circumstances, any outcome is possible and would not surprise me one bit anymore.

Sure, but I'm not not just talking about BC, and none of the big name "scammers" have left game development. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the frequency that you see devs accused of being scammers is a bit much. Burnout and incompetence are the more likely culprits.

I'm avoiding dropping names to minimize the chance of my post getting removed, but most of the people in this thread no at least one of the people I'm referring to.

 

[Wolfen5]

Sure, but I'm not not just talking about BC, and none of the big name "scammers" have left game development. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the frequency that you see devs accused of being scammers is a bit much. Burnout and incompetence are the more likely culprits.

I'm avoiding dropping names to minimize the chance of my post getting removed, but most of the people in this thread no at least one of the people I'm referring to.

I was only speaking of this instance (game/dev). While I don't know the names of those you may, or may not, be referring to as scammers, I would not be surprised this happens. It can be seen everywhere in the real world and has been there throughout history, so I just try to stay informed, be a little skeptical and usually wait things out before committing. As the old adage goes; "There's a sucker born every minute"

 

[Deleted member 3482284]

An incompetent developer is not any better than a scamming developer. Being a bad developer is not in any way a positive. Who cares what their intentions are

Being unable to do your job and being a liar are both as bad as each other

 

[darkjam93]

Well my comment about scummy brown nosing was delated...so he can post bullshit and its ok?
sure the game is being updated soon...year later just a bit longer.,, Don't make fun of the dev he's doing his best doing nothing while making easy cash

 

[headhunter32]

Aight I been slackin and you guys are going on a tear again so I'll put this down for you guys to tear into:

-Game ain't goin nowhere, somehow shit will come out next year, understand that much
-Yes there has been a lot of internal issues, but no it really doesn't concern anyone here
-We're all fatigued, if you don't care anymore then you are free to leave, but stop bringing up the same topics please
-Chill the fuck out, go play one of the other many awesome games on offer, much like I'm doing now.

That's all really, I'm out of energy, and I'll probably get told I need to take a break, which I've been doing as it is. I just stepped in to try and shift people's hate at me for a bit. Laters.

Stay Solid, Stay Ecchi!

~Skummy Out

U cant blame people to be negative and venting there frustration, yes arguments are repeated yes its constant the same, but can u blame people.

I have support the dev in the past and i realy liked his game, but the constant next, then next and next with failed and failed promises can make people frustrated.

Some time its then better to put a project on hold or keep a total radio sillence inplace of feeding info that frustrated people more because of the constant maby next time.