VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[Dukez]

Completely unrelated, but does Illusion let people use it's games to make other games, or have they just not gotten around to cease and desisting everyone yet? Cause using another game in place of original character models seems like a legally risky move. Anyone know how it's happening?

From what I understand when I looked into this, you aren't allowed so you are taking a risk when you do this. I think the creators even commented on it at some point saying this (or maybe it was the anime game version creators?) but the logic here is I think a Patreon project is technically won't get in trouble but if you sell it as a product you run the risk of legal action. Some doubt it would happen even then since there is so many so it'd have to be quite a popular game?

I wish there was a game/engine that did let you. Currently Vroid is the only one you can legally use the models from as far as I know.

And 2D does not help either , you need a character to wear a different dress in the same situation. Needs to be positioned and rendered.. and if she needs to wear this different dress in other situations then.. well.. position and render.

3D is a big initial payload at first BUT once you have the main things going for you , it is just making animations which are ALWAYS reusable in nearly all situations and maybe some clothes which are also be useable in all situations.

Or.. maybe to get it simple , imagine creating a sims game in 2D. Imagine now that you would have to make pictures for EVERY possible combination of things that can happen.
With 3D you just enable and disable clothes and done. BUT the initial payload is massive.

This is what i think , why many of the 2D games are getting slower.. and slower.. and slower overtime."

Kind of disagree with this, having used the software myself. It's still very much a 3d game, you can load animations and poses onto your models, changing clothes is a few clicks. The hard part is like with every other 3d game, making assets from scratch, modeling clothes to existing models, etc. The only part I find tedious is since it's a game it has more limitations and they can be quite annoying, personally I found positioning npc's and what not to be annoying. On the flip side a lot of stuff is already made to make things easier, tons of assets to find, mods to get, etc. Each have their pros and cons in the end.

 

[Soulonus]

From what I understand when I looked into this, you aren't allowed so you are taking a risk when you do this. I think the creators even commented on it at some point saying this (or maybe it was the anime game version creators?) but the logic here is I think a Patreon project is technically won't get in trouble but if you sell it as a product you run the risk of legal action. Some doubt it would happen even then since there is so many so it'd have to be quite a popular game?

Another game had a run in with Illusion Devs, although it was officially resolved on the point that the renders technically weren't being used for commercial purposes.
The Dev further removed the Patreon (or he didn't have them from the start I don't remember as of now), so the game was indeed completely free to play and of non commercial nature.
They are using Patreon as a tip jar and no part of the content has any sort of pay wall, so yea.

 

[layer1avn]

Regarding graphic design, this game has some extremely weird proportions at times and I wonder why. Matsu has cankles, a giant head and huge hands. One girl's hand was also the size of her head but I forget which scene it was. Quite a few girls have tiny, skinny upper bodies compared to their hips, and I'm not talking about the thicc girls either. Kaede had a still shot like that in one of the bathroom scenes.

Fuyu's shin length is epic. She'd go full Weidman/Silva if she threw a low kick in a fight.

.

 

[Dragon59]

You're sick. And so am I. Fuck Tigger, obviously cowgirl. Marry Piglet. Kill Pooh Bear and steal his honey stash.

I shudder to contemplate the sound Tigger would make during climax. (hoo hoo hoo!)

 

[Dragon59]

I am afraid I would fuck that cake

Cream filling?

 

[Deleted member 440241]

I shudder to contemplate the sound Tigger would make during climax. (hoo hoo hoo!)

Has to be better than the noise Goofy makes.

 

[Parnso]

Guys the game engine is Ren'Py, all based on Python and perfectly made so that even someone without knowledge can make a simple VN and the more complex part is very easy to learn.
Ren'Py is also 17 years old, everything that can be done with it has been done and is documented, just look it up and use it.
You don't need vast coding knowledge for this and if a merge won't work you could rewrite everything from zero in a month and copy over the pictures and story.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

To settle something, no they aren't looking for anyone for merge shit, that's not on the table, and what help they were looking for otherwise, they found. Also explanation is gross incompetence of a generally common degree with what happens in this sphere. If you've been around adult gave development long enough you know how this goes, considering I've been in this sphere and watching as this went from niche shit still in all flash to now....Yeah I'm well aware of how this shit goes. The only silver lining is knowing that eventually something will be produced, only time will tell when.

Moving on now that clarifications have been made:

Sloth-Chan Oven Mitts, how much do you pay for them if Sloth-Chan made them herself?

 

[layer1avn]

3 jugs of saki per mitt. edit: 10 jugs if it's the one with her phone in it.

 

[rostabu]

for which set? I'd pay more for the black ones

 

[Soulonus]

Kind of disagree with this, having used the software myself. It's still very much a 3d game, you can load animations and poses onto your models, changing clothes is a few clicks. The hard part is like with every other 3d game, making assets from scratch, modeling clothes to existing models, etc. The only part I find tedious is since it's a game it has more limitations and they can be quite annoying, personally I found positioning npc's and what not to be annoying. On the flip side a lot of stuff is already made to make things easier, tons of assets to find, mods to get, etc. Each have their pros and cons in the end.

The game is a 3D game, definitely.

But I think you missed the point, what the earlier guy was saying is also right.

Inside HS or Daz even, everything is 3D, and the game Dev didn't have to make every scene for you. It has 3D models that you can turn and play around with. But in the case of using these 'assets' in VNs, they are indeed 2D. You put renders (which as 2D) into renpy, which in turn requires you to not only make the model in this software but also take renders for every branching scene/situation you introduce.

The difference being. In a 3D game, you would texture the 3D model, and the player is free to take the model (character) anywhere in the world that you made (also textured 3D models) and that's that. But in the case of these 2D games, you have to texture the models and also render out every possible action/situation possible. And that just makes it a bit tedious and complicated in the long run.

 

[Dukez]

The game is a 3D game, definitely.

But I think you missed the point, what the earlier guy was saying is also right.

Inside HS or Daz even, everything is 3D, and the game Dev didn't have to make every scene for you. It has 3D models that you can turn and play around with. But in the case of using these 'assets' in VNs, they are indeed 2D. You put renders (which as 2D) into renpy, which in turn requires you to not only make the model in this software but also take renders for every branching scene/situation you introduce.

The difference being. In a 3D game, you would texture the 3D model, and the player is free to take the model (character) anywhere in the world that you made (also textured 3D models) and that's that. But in the case of these 2D games, you have to texture the models and also render out every possible action/situation possible. And that just makes it a bit tedious and complicated in the long run.

Maybe I am but I also think the explanation still isn't right and is highly dependent on the game. You aren't 'texturing' 2D assets in renpy, it's a picture. It's already been' textured' in other programs prior to hitting renpy, all renpy is receiving is a screenshot of something.

Now depending on the game, the background, characters etc may all just be part of one image. This is how Ecchi Sensei does it, he builds the characters in Illusion's PlayHome software, environments (or built in unity and ported into PlayHome) then they are placed for the scene in 3d space (since it's all 3d models) and screenshotted > picture into renpy. Some times picture animations (or videos? Not sure BlueCat does actual videos).

Other games may separate the background, characters etc into separate images and overlay them to reduce game size bloat or other design reasons, just a different way of doing it but when done wrong makes characters feel detached from their backgrounds.

I think it mainly just comes down to the game's design, you could have equal tediousness in a fully 3d game that had branching actions as well. 3D games that let you walk around have more things to consider and potentially fix compared to a Renpy game where every action is fully controlled and directed.

I guess mainly I think calling it a 2d game while technically correct simplifies how it's made too much imo.

 

[Soulonus]

Maybe I am but I also think the explanation still isn't right and is highly dependent on the game. You aren't 'texturing' 2D assets in renpy, it's a picture. It's already been' textured' in other programs prior to hitting renpy, all renpy is receiving is a screenshot of something.

Now depending on the game, the background, characters etc may all just be part of one image. This is how Ecchi Sensei does it, he builds the characters in Illusion's PlayHome software, environments (or built in unity and ported into PlayHome) then they are placed for the scene in 3d space (since it's all 3d models) and screenshotted > picture into renpy. Some times picture animations (or videos? Not sure BlueCat does actual videos).

Other games may separate the background, characters etc into separate images and overlay them to reduce game size bloat or other design reasons, just a different way of doing it but when done wrong makes characters feel detached from their backgrounds.

Taking screenshots is essentially the extra step here, and as you said it is indeed highly dependent on the game. Some concepts would be easier to pull off in 3D than in 2D in vice versa.

As far as I understand, he was quoting a friend, and that friend was only talking in general terms (and definitely not in terms of ES). Hugely branching paths would indeed make designing every scene and taking out renders for each a real headache, and as mentioned in the original quote would make it harder to go back and change things as you would have to consider multiple branches.

And as you mentioned it isn't exactly true in the case of ES as the story is mostly linear (you choose to see/or skip things) and there are essentially no real branching paths here.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just think you missed the point of the OP in being that it indeed can be hard to change up things in a branching story (compared to a linear one).

I think it mainly just comes down to the game's design, you could have equal tediousness in a fully 3d game that had branching actions as well. 3D games that let you walk around have more things to consider and potentially fix compared to a Renpy game where every action is fully controlled and directed.

I agree entirely, it is at its core down to the design decision. Because of this point only, traditionally, 3D games would be largely linear, and 2D games would use branching paths.

I guess mainly I think calling it a 2d game while technically correct simplifies how it's made too much imo.

For all intents and purposes, renpy games (like the ones we are talking about) are indeed 2D games that have 3D CG. Having 3D CG doesn't make the game a 3D game. Again HS (or PH) is a 3D game, but ES (other similar renpy games) are 2D. HS is being used as a tool to produce 3D graphics for a 2D game. So again in the context of the original conversation, I would like to stand on my point that it (the ES like renpy games) are 2D games. They do use 3DCG from a 3D game (Illusion titles) but they are still only using pictures (as you yourself pointed out) from these games, making them technically and rightfully 2D.

The tool in this case is a 3D game in itself is beyond the point I believe.

 

[Dukez]

Taking screenshots is essentially the extra step here, and as you said it is indeed highly dependent on the game. Some concepts would be easier to pull off in 3D than in 2D in vice versa.

As far as I understand, he was quoting a friend, and that friend was only talking in general terms (and definitely not in terms of ES). Hugely branching paths would indeed make designing every scene and taking out renders for each a real headache, and as mentioned in the original quote would make it harder to go back and change things as you would have to consider multiple branches.

Yeah that's true, I was forgetting how much more of a headache it would be in games like this to go back and change things since you would have to re-render pictures out each time. Even if you had the scenes saved so it was 'easy' to implement the changes you want to do it's still extremely more tedious than a 3d game where changes can be retroactive like replacing the main model and it applying to the whole game instantly.

I wonder if the merged game will have stuff like this done and to what extent, though I'm not sure if I'd believe them if they said they were until I see the finished product given how much time has passed at this point.

For all intents and purposes, renpy games (like the ones we are talking about) are indeed 2D games that have 3D CG. Having 3D CG doesn't make the game a 3D game. Again HS (or PH) is a 3D game, but ES (other similar renpy games) are 2D. HS is being used as a tool to produce 3D graphics for a 2D game. So again in the context of the original conversation, I would like to stand on my point that it (the ES like renpy games) are 2D games. They do use 3DCG from a 3D game (Illusion titles) but they are still only using pictures (as you yourself pointed out) from these games, making them technically and rightfully 2D.

The tool in this case is a 3D game in itself is beyond the point I believe.

Yeah, in the end it is very much a 2D product that we as consumers experience so fair enough on that point. It sometimes makes me wonder how a 3D game done in real time would turn out while still using the same directed game design you see in most renpy games. Quality would have to be lower if going for the more realistic approach that some games can do with their rendering since it's does in pictures instead of real time, along with the performance needed to even get close to that but with UE5 stuff I do wonder if something could be made pretty close and have a faster production schedule as a result.

 

[Soulonus]

I wonder if the merged game will have stuff like this done and to what extent, though I'm not sure if I'd believe them if they said they were until I see the finished product given how much time has passed at this point.

Personally keeping my hopes low.

Yeah, in the end it is very much a 2D product that we as consumers experience so fair enough on that point. It sometimes makes me wonder how a 3D game done in real time would turn out while still using the same directed game design you see in most renpy games. Quality would have to be lower if going for the more realistic approach that some games can do with their rendering since it's does in pictures instead of real time, along with the performance needed to even get close to that but with UE5 stuff I do wonder if something could be made pretty close and have a faster production schedule as a result.

Yea, since the launch of UE5 I've been thinking about it too. It's pretty accessible really. But it is kind of uncharted territory. A lot of game decisions make it actually worth it for both the developer and the player.

Also the thing about releasing a UE game in parts? Not sure if that would work well without a proper infra to support updates etc. It is really something exciting to think about surely.

 

[zd69]

Finished week 1 integrated. Are there any specials I should play before playing Week 2 integrated (D8-14_v1.0_Final)? Is there a way to import my save, or do the decisions I made in Week 1 not carry over in any way at this time to Week 2?

 

[rostabu]

for me it was a straight play through until late day 8 or early day 9

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse but any news on when month 1 will be done? Crazy how long it's taken. I get they're working on a lot for this update but it's been over a year now-never seen another VN take that long

 

[rentintin]

ren'py is a glorified picture slide software/platform. it's about as simple as they come.
the vn:s DO NOT have 3D rendering. it's all pictures, sprites or videos. 2D from front to back.
that's the beauty of it. it is supposed to be dead simple.
yes, you can do more complex things with it, but its very idea is to give devs an easy and simple platform.

you could teach a monkey to make a vn on it. there is just no excuses for this never ending delay, other than gross incompetance in leadership and lack of effort, if there indeed ever really was a team.

ANYTHING at this point, short of an actual release, is complete and utter bullshit.

 

[Neobrakeon]

The money is down to 3.2k
Anyone want to guess when it will go under 3k?