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Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,673
1,899
I hadn't even considered Rachel myself, but the more I think about it the more it seems to be inline with her behaviour on non-siren routes. I kind of hope it is really her now. She does have access to the mansion and could reasonably know a lot of the goings-on.

It could well fall in line with the "I disappear for a year"-type of "solutions", she's thought up before. Being piss-poor at taking other people's feelings into consideration.
I don't think there's crazy enough sex should could do to make up for it, if that's what she did. It makes a sick kind of sense, but would just be so entirely reprehensible that I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire, if I were Ashe. Playing the support role for your own Machiavellian scheme is just disgusting. But it would be napalm quality drama, I suppose.

Edit: I think that might kill the game for me, if that's the reveal. Kinda nauseous just thinking about it.
 
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songlick

Newbie
May 19, 2024
34
63
Not sure many would argue that Natasha is a good person or behaves well, or that her actions are legal. But equally, there are those on here who bang on about her being 'RapeCop' when, if the player chooses it, the most she does is grope, drop her towel in a gym changing room and then grope, for which she is kicked in the face. Low grade sexual assault? Yep. Wrong? Yep. Worth all the preaching? Nope.

If Ashe is turned on what happens with Natasha and allows it to continue and escalate then we have a very exciting consensual dynamic. If not, we don't. End of, so far.
She truies to blackmail her into sex essentially. That doesn't sound like consent... sex without consent is... ah well
 

Braga96

Newbie
Feb 25, 2024
30
54
There's a vast difference between discussing moralistic consequences of fetishes and moralistic consequences of ignoring consent. This is kind of what I'm talking about with people not understanding the point, because even if you discuss something like incest, at a baseline you are still discussing and arguing from the point of view of consent which is MUCH easier to navigate from a moral standpoint because both parties are on the same page and one party won't be irrevocably fucked up due to the other.

You can find PLENTY of incestuous relationships in real life, you can find plenty of examples of cheating and such, but there's a reason why non-consent is only ever relegated to fantasy or roleplaying, because the reality of that situation is beyond morally reprehensible.

This is the core argument as to why me and a few others are noting that just saying "oh this character is fine" isn't exactly fine because you can't compare what's going on with that character with any other fetish representation in this game, and it's pretty messed up seeing people defend that.
Even with it being fiction, the fact that certain people in here can't even admit that "alright yeah it's fucked up but I like it" and instead try to defend that character is just nuts to me.
Depending on who you ask there is no such thing as consensul incest and incest is just as illegal as rape.
 
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meh123456789

Newbie
May 26, 2024
57
45
She truies to blackmail her into sex essentially. That doesn't sound like consent... sex without consent is... ah well
Ashe has the choice to leave and reject Natasha's advances as abusive and unwanted or to stay and consent to Natasha's advances as dominating and arousing.

While the above is true, Ashe's choices do not change the morality/immorality of Natasha's behaviour. Natasha still gropes her, abuses her position as a police officer and blackmails her. Natasha is not a good person.

However Ashe is not forced to submit to Natasha. If she chooses to submit, then that is a consensual kittenish choice that Ashe herself finds intensely arousing. The fact that the power dynamics are wildly skewed in Natasha's favour does not make Ashe's choice to submit or the pleasure she takes in it, invalid. Not in the context of a game where binary choices have to be made in order to register decisions.
 
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Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
845
You make a lot of good points. Thanks for bouncing ideas around, it's fun!

Why blackmail, when you can just ask? That is a great point, and I think whoever is revealed to be the blackmailer it will revolve around the nature of the blackmail being centred on sexual pedagogy for Ashe. Why is it so benign and sexual? Finding that combination will be the key. As for Victoria, she may have seen how messed up Ashe is, how harsh on herself, how insecure, etc., and this whole production is a way to open her doors and come to grips with her own sexuality. A bit like her dream demon self. Maybe Victoria wants to either prepare her for Delilah, or show Delilah how Ashe isn't going to be a good fit for her? I don't know, but I don't think the theory is necessarily blown up, but it does need more nuance. It could even be a shotgun of motivations, with some altruistic, some inherently selfish and sexual. The form of the blackmail, 'try out this anal plug,' 'take sexy pics of yourself,' 'try and get laid on your date,' really don't match the seriousness of blackmail. It's more like a game, some kinky foreplay that Ashe has been coerced into.
Oh yeah no worries, I enjoy bouncing ideas around.

Yeah I wouldn't dismiss it, I just don't think we've uncovered a good enough reason for Victoria to do what she's doing, hence why I also noted that there's a chance the blackmail is hinging on information that we don't have access to, perhaps a shared past event between Ashe and whomever the blackmailer is that lies as an unseen trigger for that character.
And yeah as you said, it's more like a game than conventional blackmail which makes it a bit difficult to pinpoint whom the blackmailer is and why they are blackmailing to begin with.

I did ponder the idea of Victoria potentially doing it to show that Ashe isn't a good fit for Delilah, I think out of all the reasons for Victoria to blackmail, that one makes the most kind of sense in a twisted way. Mainly because we don't really know Victoria or what she's like, so it's absolutely a possibility and gives an adequate reason for Delilah to be involved other than Victoria being a sociopath.

Delilah as a white knight is a very interesting theory. I like that. Not sure if it's how it will play out, but the pieces are there. That implies that she found out when Ashe and Zoey fucked at the sleepover, and she came up with the plan on the fly. Possible, but I get the feeling Delilah would need more time to mentally build herself up to that.
I think a character as wired and apparently into Ashe is a bit of a coinflip in terms of how they would react or do things in that they either take WAY too long to mentally build themselves up and think of plans, or they do things WAY too quickly and rashly. The current blackmail and Delilah's behaviour would fit into the latter where she might have jumped the gun and she isn't really sure where to go with things or what she's doing, and only really thinking that she wants Ashe to turn to her.

I think it's the strongest theory involving Delilah atleast since it would explain her erratic and almost unhinged behaviour a bit better than most I've seen thus far, and it would also fit in with how much she seemingly romanticizes Ashe.


Fiona seems pretty stoked for Ashe's hookups, like Lexi, and so determined to keep themselves casual, I can't quite see it. But good to look at every possibility. I'd be very surprised, as it just doesn't feel like her style. Her style was to watch porn with Ashe and eat her out. And hang out and fuck her another day. It's so 'go with the flow' compared to the manipulation and effort of the blackmail plot.

Agreed on Kate and Zoey. Neither feel like good suspects.
Yeah, I think Fiona is a fairly weak possibility, but it's also one I have a hard time letting go of completely with all the media I've seen/read that involved a best friend blackmailing someone. But yeah it is basically the weakest out of all the 'possible' ones, but given that the blackmail started after Fiona potentially got a handjob, there's always a small possibility that it triggered something with Fiona.


Moira has the means, but I think circling back to the nature of the blackmail being almost a soft sexual bootcamp, it doesn't match her cutthroat potential. I'd expect something more definitive, rather than this cat playing with its food style of things. And pushing for her to sleep with Vanessa and the tone around it...I'd expect more snark or a patronising tone to have snuck in. It all seems too small fry for her, in my book. As you say, she has many more efficient ways of pushing Ashe out of her daughter's life, if that was the goal.

And I agree, I think all the clues pointing towards Delilah means there's more to the story than it just being Delilah (though if that had been revealed in Chapter 5, I would have been very happy). And the logical conclusion of it being someone we haven't seen yet is why Victoria jumped out at me as a candidate.

If it turns out to be Rachel, then yes, that's about as evil and conniving as a character can get. I can't see how it wouldn't destroy Ashe and blow up the family, especially with the incongruity of that kind of betrayal with the asks of the blackmail. That'd be so brutal, and I hope it's anyone else.
Oh yeah, Moira has the means but that's about it, you pretty much perfectly pointed out why it's not feasible.
If it turns out to be Victoria then hot damn that situation will be complicated going forward.. you're potentially banging her wife, and her daughter is into you to an unhealthy degree and now you're getting blackmailed by that person. That's a LOT of potential drama and potential to blow up several peoples lives.

Rachel would be the worst case scenario, fully DEFCON 1 status and would probably cause me to drop the game.
 
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Buletti

Active Member
Nov 7, 2023
829
734
Oh yeah no worries, I enjoy bouncing ideas around.

Yeah I wouldn't dismiss it, I just don't think we've uncovered a good enough reason for Victoria to do what she's doing, hence why I also noted that there's a chance the blackmail is hinging on information that we don't have access to, perhaps a shared past event between Ashe and whomever the blackmailer is that lies as an unseen trigger for that character.
And yeah as you said, it's more like a game than conventional blackmail which makes it a bit difficult to pinpoint whom the blackmailer is and why they are blackmailing to begin with.

I did ponder the idea of Victoria potentially doing it to show that Ashe isn't a good fit for Delilah, I think out of all the reasons for Victoria to blackmail, that one makes the most kind of sense in a twisted way. Mainly because we don't really know Victoria or what she's like, so it's absolutely a possibility and gives an adequate reason for Delilah to be involved other than Victoria being a sociopath.


I think a character as wired and apparently into Ashe is a bit of a coinflip in terms of how they would react or do things in that they either take WAY too long to mentally build themselves up and think of plans, or they do things WAY too quickly and rashly. The current blackmail and Delilah's behaviour would fit into the latter where she might have jumped the gun and she isn't really sure where to go with things or what she's doing, and only really thinking that she wants Ashe to turn to her.

I think it's the strongest theory involving Delilah atleast since it would explain her erratic and almost unhinged behaviour a bit better than most I've seen thus far, and it would also fit in with how much she seemingly romanticizes Ashe.



Yeah, I think Fiona is a fairly weak possibility, but it's also one I have a hard time letting go of completely with all the media I've seen/read that involved a best friend blackmailing someone. But yeah it is basically the weakest out of all the 'possible' ones, but given that the blackmail started after Fiona potentially got a handjob, there's always a small possibility that it triggered something with Fiona.



Oh yeah, Moira has the means but that's about it, you pretty much perfectly pointed out why it's not feasible.
If it turns out to be Victoria then hot damn that situation will be complicated going forward.. you're potentially banging her wife, and her daughter is into you to an unhealthy degree and now you're getting blackmailed by that person. That's a LOT of potential drama and potential to blow up several peoples lives.

Rachel would be the worst case scenario, fully DEFCON 1 status and would probably cause me to drop the game.
You two brought up some really good points.

And honestly the more I read them I think from a writers perspective it would make the most sense that it`s Rachel with Delilahs weird acting being a red herring and completely unrelated to the blackmail thing.

That would be pretty dark indeed but a pretty strong plot twist imho.

I very much appreciate the writing of this VN and think it`s extraordinary that a porn game (with actually really good porn in it) is able to evoke these discussions.

Btw: Who is Kendra? When was she mentioned?
 
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Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
845
You two brought up some really good points.

And honestly the more I read them I think from a writers perspective it would make the most sense that it`s Rachel with Delilahs weird acting being a red herring and completely unrelated to the blackmail thing.

That would be pretty dark indeed but a pretty strong plot twist imho.

I very much appreciate the writing of this VN and think it`s extraordinary that a porn game (with actually really good porn in it) is able to evoke these discussions.
I didn't really delve into Rachel as a possibility mainly because I'm kind of scared that it actually would be her.. but for the sake of argument, let's dig into it a bit.
As previously noted, the blackmail seem to be more like a game for the blackmailer, and is geared towards both making Ashe more sexual and to mentally corner her and isolate her, which usually points towards someone wanting to take advantage of that cornered mentality whether it's to create an emotional and physical bond, or to physically take advantage of the person getting blackmailed, or to make sure that they can be controlled to the fullest extent etc.
By those metrics, we then need to look into what Rachel could possibly gain from doing so and her motives, there are a few possibilities that spring to mind;
-Rachel wants Ashe to get involved with someone so that the way Rachel treated Ashe with her whole blowup and ignoring Ashe will be swept under the rug and partially forgotten about.
-Rachel wants to tie Ashe up in her own sexual stuff so that Rachel can mess around with whomever she wants without Ashe interfering somehow.
-Rachel wants to somehow groom Ashe to fit her own personal kinks.
-Rachel, given that she seems extremely disrespectful and selfish, might want to get back at Ashe for what happened between them.

Honestly it's a bit difficult to find a convincing motive for Rachel if we assume that she's not interested in anything romantic or physical with Ashe at this point (which she doesn't seem to be), the only other plausible scenarios would then be fueled by either greed or malice.
Though then again, there's always the possibility of Rachel potentially acting on information that we haven't got access to. I might also be completely missing something, it's been a while since I've played the game and I am also sleep deprived at the moment.

It's always kind of fun to analyse and try to dissect narratives so I'm always down for some of that.

Buletti said:
Btw: Who is Kendra? When was she mentioned?

You can find Kendra being mentioned in this poster that outlines characters;
Here you can see which characters have a vagina and which ones have a penis.
View attachment 4217219
Truthfully, I cannot recall where and if she's referred to in the game itself, but she's apparently tangentially linked to Evelyn somehow.
 

Buletti

Active Member
Nov 7, 2023
829
734
I didn't really delve into Rachel as a possibility mainly because I'm kind of scared that it actually would be her.. but for the sake of argument, let's dig into it a bit.
As previously noted, the blackmail seem to be more like a game for the blackmailer, and is geared towards both making Ashe more sexual and to mentally corner her and isolate her, which usually points towards someone wanting to take advantage of that cornered mentality whether it's to create an emotional and physical bond, or to physically take advantage of the person getting blackmailed, or to make sure that they can be controlled to the fullest extent etc.
By those metrics, we then need to look into what Rachel could possibly gain from doing so and her motives, there are a few possibilities that spring to mind;
-Rachel wants Ashe to get involved with someone so that the way Rachel treated Ashe with her whole blowup and ignoring Ashe will be swept under the rug and partially forgotten about.
-Rachel wants to tie Ashe up in her own sexual stuff so that Rachel can mess around with whomever she wants without Ashe interfering somehow.
-Rachel wants to somehow groom Ashe to fit her own personal kinks.
-Rachel, given that she seems extremely disrespectful and selfish, might want to get back at Ashe for what happened between them.

Honestly it's a bit difficult to find a convincing motive for Rachel if we assume that she's not interested in anything romantic or physical with Ashe at this point (which she doesn't seem to be), the only other plausible scenarios would then be fueled by either greed or malice.
Though then again, there's always the possibility of Rachel potentially acting on information that we haven't got access to. I might also be completely missing something, it's been a while since I've played the game and I am also sleep deprived at the moment.

It's always kind of fun to analyse and try to dissect narratives so I'm always down for some of that.




You can find Kendra being mentioned in this poster that outlines characters;


Truthfully, I cannot recall where and if she's referred to in the game itself, but she's apparently tangentially linked to Evelyn somehow.
Have some sleep mate! :D

I understand that you are trying to make sense of this from a charcter`s perspective. Where i was coming from was more from the writers perspective. it would just be a good plot twist. The real motives of the character Rachel might just be that she still hates Rachel for what she has done to her or that she also thinks that she had killed her Mom like Ashe is told by "the other one". Or something else that is revealed later.

This very chart/poster is where I saw her name and was wondering whoever Kendra is. Especially when she is related to Evelyn and therefore should be in the inner family circle.
 
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Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
845
Have some sleep mate! :D

I understand that you are trying to make sense of this from a charcter`s perspective. Where i was coming from was more from the writers perspective. it would just be a good plot twist. The real motives of the character Rachel might just be that she still hates Rachel for what she has done to her or that she also thinks that she had killed her Mom like Ashe is told by "the other one". Or something else that is revealed later.
Yeah I'll hopefully get some rest later tonight.

Ah, yeah I mean from an authors perspective I can definitely agree that it would be the most insane twist. It's not the first time I've seen blackmail being used by a familial person in a story, but given Rachel and Ashe's history, it would be a brutal reveal for sure.
And yeah I mean no matter how much I think about it, I think that Rachels motive would have to be in either malice or revenge, perhaps both. Would be hard to make sense of it if it was due to misguided love or something like that.

Buletti said:
This very chart/poster is where I saw her name and was wondering whoever Kendra is. Especially when she is related to Evelyn and therefore should be in the inner family circle.
I can't recall that name being mentioned in the game, but if I had to guess, then it's likely either a sister of Evelyn (as I don't think Evelyn has ever talked about her family either) or a very close friend perhaps.
It'll be interesting to see when that character pops up however.
 
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Nemesis.

Newbie
Oct 14, 2021
17
23
For the people who thinks that Victoria is the blackmailer, i have a question:

You have the choice to avoid Kate. If you do, the blackmail still happens, right? Then she's not a possibility for me, because she wouldn't have a reason for that, right?

This is a honest question because i didn't refuse Kate, so i don't know the possibilities here. The DEV can make an infinite list of blackmailers for each choice/path you make? yes, but i doubt it.
 
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Lonestarman

New Member
Feb 20, 2018
9
5
Speaking of Kendra, Stella seems like the kind of woman (based on what we saw at the end of episode 4) that would enjoy watching Evelyn get railed by her sister. Also Victoria and Evelyn being a CQ route relationship would be interesting, especially if they work at the same place (I don't remember if it was stated where Victoria works). Another interesting CQ route event could be Victoria "taking" Kate back from Ashe.
 

MadfireMonkey

Member
Dec 1, 2022
323
260
I didn't really delve into Rachel as a possibility mainly because I'm kind of scared that it actually would be her.. but for the sake of argument, let's dig into it a bit.
As previously noted, the blackmail seem to be more like a game for the blackmailer, and is geared towards both making Ashe more sexual and to mentally corner her and isolate her, which usually points towards someone wanting to take advantage of that cornered mentality whether it's to create an emotional and physical bond, or to physically take advantage of the person getting blackmailed, or to make sure that they can be controlled to the fullest extent etc.
By those metrics, we then need to look into what Rachel could possibly gain from doing so and her motives, there are a few possibilities that spring to mind;
-Rachel wants Ashe to get involved with someone so that the way Rachel treated Ashe with her whole blowup and ignoring Ashe will be swept under the rug and partially forgotten about.
-Rachel wants to tie Ashe up in her own sexual stuff so that Rachel can mess around with whomever she wants without Ashe interfering somehow.
-Rachel wants to somehow groom Ashe to fit her own personal kinks.
-Rachel, given that she seems extremely disrespectful and selfish, might want to get back at Ashe for what happened between them.

Honestly it's a bit difficult to find a convincing motive for Rachel if we assume that she's not interested in anything romantic or physical with Ashe at this point (which she doesn't seem to be), the only other plausible scenarios would then be fueled by either greed or malice.
Though then again, there's always the possibility of Rachel potentially acting on information that we haven't got access to. I might also be completely missing something, it's been a while since I've played the game and I am also sleep deprived at the moment.

It's always kind of fun to analyse and try to dissect narratives so I'm always down for some of that.




You can find Kendra being mentioned in this poster that outlines characters;


Truthfully, I cannot recall where and if she's referred to in the game itself, but she's apparently tangentially linked to Evelyn somehow.
She's Evelyn's sister. Evelyn says something about them not having a good relationship or something like that
 

Drex

Member
Nov 22, 2017
133
24
I use Renpy Plugin version 8.0.3_7.5.3_009
and Joiplay version 1.20.540
I cant get it to run. It only seems to allow other versions to run it on this version of Joiplay. And the ones I tried and don't want to use anymore I don't know how to uninstall from it. Man why is this so complicated sometimes or I'am I dumb?
 

doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
716
I don't think there's crazy enough sex should could do to make up for it, if that's what she did. It makes a sick kind of sense, but would just be so entirely reprehensible that I wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire, if I were Ashe. Playing the support role for your own Machiavellian scheme is just disgusting. But it would be napalm quality drama, I suppose.

Edit: I think that might kill the game for me, if that's the reveal. Kinda nauseous just thinking about it.
It's potentially inline with her cuck-route personality. It would be a terrible (for Ashe) reveal, but it's definitely within the realm of possibilities. Would explain some of her fucked up behaviour.

It would be quite diabolical for the dev to use Rachel like that. So.. probably it's her? :Kappa:
 

Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
11,761
15,157
honestly if Rachael ends up being the blackmailer which I hope isn't the case. I'm gonna have to pull out my simp card. Cause I will still want to like her as my 2nd favorite LI. Tho that isn't hard to do in this game , as only a handful of characters in this game I consider someone id romance a main LI rest is content

For me Content = Fiona , Natasha , Isabella , Kate , Mc's mother, Cleo any other random girl I forgot about

LI for me = Vanessa , Rachael , Zoey

Unsure about = Spike , Lexi , Delilah
 
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Buletti

Active Member
Nov 7, 2023
829
734
honestly if Rachael ends up being the blackmailer which I hope isn't the case. I'm gonna have to pull out my simp card. Cause I will still want to like her as my 2nd favorite LI. Tho that isn't hard to do in this game , as only a handful of characters in this game I consider someone id romance a main LI rest is content

For me Content = Fiona , Natasha , Isabella , Kate , Mc's mother, Cleo any other random girl I forgot about

LI for me = Vanessa , Rachael , Zoey

Unsure about = Spike , Lexi , Delilah
Come on Mate, Delilah is also pretty hot :D

The outfit she is wearing for the big party looks pretty sexy and her business Dress suits her also very well. I was just as surprised as Ashe how good she looks in it.
 
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Sep 25, 2020
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RapeCop spoils everything. Can't support a project with RapeCop
Ha! I bet Natasha will get nice redeeming arc in latter parts of the story and she's gonna catch and lock up the blackmailer, anyway, if situation goes out of hand. :D

blackmail = coercion
Nah, you are wrong here. Blackmail isn't really coercion, especially when it comes to reputational blackmail.

If blackmailer doesn't act like terrorist (ie. threatens your life or life of members of your family in order to push you into becoming his tool of destruction or demanding evil doing from you) and whole blackmail is based just on knowledge of true information you would prefer to stay private, it isn't really coercive. Because unlike your life or health you don't own exclusive rights on what other people should know or not know about you. You can stop people telling lies about you, which damage your reputation, but not the truth.

Truth-based kind of reputational blackmail isn't really coercive and is based on your choice. If blackmailer knows the truth, he or she can go public with it anyway, and if you agree to pay for silence, you're just paying for prefered postponement of getting it leaked. So, you can pay to buy some time and prepare your damage control, you wouldn't have chance to set up, if not that warning. If blackmailing person wouldn't be greedy and go public for free straight on, you couldn't control even that time shit hits the fan.

Nobody is obliged to help you keeping up your appearances. And it's your problem, if you're not open about yourself and need to mask up in order to function in society. When you aren't, your potentially giving much power over yourself to other people, which is dumb thing to do.

Duplos should get out of the closet! :D
 
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