Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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What is even more dangeros for Caribdis is the music in the game.

I can't remember exactly if it was here or on discord that the are no music rights are bought.
Looks like this game is flying under the radar of many copyright owners. If any one of the owners gets wind about this game and notices how much money is generated through this game, Caribdis is in great trouble. He will be for sure sued to hell and back, let's hope that will never happen.
?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a significant* chunk of music in Eternum (i.e. Run Boy Run, Rock this Joint, Silverware) are Royalty/Copyright Free stuff, right? So...what, you're saying he dl'ed them offsite and didn't purchase them from sites like Epidemic or something?

*Yes, I know this doesn't cover certain songs like "Cancion del Mariachi" (the taco song)
 
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Mortarion

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?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a significant* chunk of music in Eternum (i.e. Run Boy Run, Rock this Joint, Silverware) are Royalty/Copyright Free stuff, right? So...what, you're saying he dl'ed them offsite and didn't purchase them from sites like Epidemic or something?

*Yes, I know this doesn't cover certain songs like "Cancion del Mariachi" (the taco song)

Even buy the music Epidemic is a real problem. Especially if the has game adult content. They are really uncool about using the music for that kind of stuff. Even if the artist has no problem with it, the license owner last the last word - if they say no you are screwed.

Do you know the game Summer's Gone from Ocean? He was forced to remove a shitton of his music from the game because of that shit. And we are talking about music rights that was bought for several thousand euros. Ocean will now hire a third person for the music stuff and use a attorney just to be proof to not get screwed again.
Drifty, the dev from Leap of Faith got a DMCA strike from such a asshole license owner. Same case, same shit. Music bought for a shitton of money and it can't be used 'cause of "no"
 
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Frowster

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Nov 4, 2022
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Eternum uses a mix of stuff licensed under Creative Commons and songs owned and licensed by third-party sites.

The former are safe, even if the copyright holders were to disapprove of their music being used in a game with adult content. That's the nature of Creative Commons - the restrictions they come with are limited, the licenses are perpetual and can't be revoked.
Now, even so, a copyright holder could ask him to remove their song(s), which is what happened to DPC with The Friday Prophets, but he wouldn't be obligated to comply. Doing so would be discretionary and a gesture of goodwill. Any claim of copyright infringement could be easily contested and dismissed as made in bad faith.

The one exception to this would be if the Creative Commons stuff that's in the game was licensed under one of the NC (Non-Commercial) licenses. In that case, it would have to be removed as otherwise Caribdis would be making himself liable to a DMCA takedown.

As for the music acquired from music libraries, it depends on where he got it from. I do know for a fact that he got at least some of the songs from Epidemic Sound and Artlist. Examples:

- I heard it in the game, liked it, looked it up and saw where it's from.

- yes, Luna's song, as I like to call it, comes from here, unfortunately.

As soon as I found out that Caribdis is getting music from Epidemic, I sent him a DM where I told him of all the problems Ocean's had with them and cautioned against using them and a few other sites and suggested an alternative that's been safe for others to use so far. Premiumbeat and Jamendo Licensing haven't caused anyone problems, as far as I know (though they do have that pesky obscenity clause in their TOS, whose interpretation is very subjective).

As for Artlist, it caused Drifty a lot of grief and soured Leap of Faith's otherwise successful Steam release.

The short of it is that their TOS prohibit the use of their content in pornographic material. For long-term security, every song sourced from them would need to be removed, unfortunately. Even if Eternum can't be released on Steam, a DMCA takedown could still be filed directly with Patreon.

Those sites don't go actively looking for instances of people misusing their content. I reckon how they find out is because of people leaving comments on YouTube music videos ("Eternum brought me here!" and such) which might cause them or the artist of the song to see what it's all about... and if they don't like what they see, that's when the problems start.

Negotiating and securing licenses directly from the musicians is the safest way, even if it's quite a bit of hassle.
 

Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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Even buy the music Epidemic is a real problem. Especially if the has game adult content. They are really uncool about using the music for that kind of stuff. Even if the artist has no problem with it, the license owner last the last word - if they say no you are screwed.

Do you know the game Summer's Gone from Ocean? He was forced to remove a shitton of his music from the game because of that shit. And we are talking about music rights that was bought for several thousand euros. Ocean will now hire a third person for the music stuff and use a attorney just to be proof to not get screwed again.
Drifty, the dev from Leap of Faith got a DMCA strike from such a asshole license owner. Same case, same shit. Music bought for a shitton of money and it can't be used 'cause of "no"
Eternum uses a mix of stuff licensed under Creative Commons and songs owned and licensed by third-party sites.

The former are safe, even if the copyright holders were to disapprove of their music being used in a game with adult content. That's the nature of Creative Commons - the restrictions they come with are limited, the licenses are perpetual and can't be revoked.
Now, even so, a copyright holder could ask him to remove their song(s), which is what happened to DPC with The Friday Prophets, but he wouldn't be obligated to comply. Doing so would be discretionary and a gesture of goodwill. Any claim of copyright infringement could be easily contested and dismissed as made in bad faith.

The one exception to this would be if the Creative Commons stuff that's in the game was licensed under one of the NC (Non-Commercial) licenses. In that case, it would have to be removed as otherwise Caribdis would be making himself liable to a DMCA takedown.

As for the music acquired from music libraries, it depends on where he got it from. I do know for a fact that he got at least some of the songs from Epidemic Sound and Artlist. Examples:

- I heard it in the game, liked it, looked it up and saw where it's from.

- yes, Luna's song, as I like to call it, comes from here, unfortunately.

As soon as I found out that Caribdis is getting music from Epidemic, I sent him a DM where I told him of all the problems Ocean's had with them and cautioned against using them and a few other sites and suggested an alternative that's been safe for others to use so far. Premiumbeat and Jamendo Licensing haven't caused anyone problems, as far as I know (though they do have that pesky obscenity clause in their TOS, whose interpretation is very subjective).

As for Artlist, it caused Drifty a lot of grief and soured Leap of Faith's otherwise successful Steam release.

The short of it is that their TOS prohibit the use of their content in pornographic material. For long-term security, every song sourced from them would need to be removed, unfortunately. Even if Eternum can't be released on Steam, a DMCA takedown could still be filed directly with Patreon.

Those sites don't go actively looking for instances of people misusing their content. I reckon how they find out is because of people leaving comments on YouTube music videos ("Eternum brought me here!" and such) which might cause them or the artist of the song to see what it's all about... and if they don't like what they see, that's when the problems start.

Negotiating and securing licenses directly from the musicians is the safest way, even if it's quite a bit of hassle.
So what you guys are basically saying is that royalty free license holders are regressive puritanical imbeciles and it would be wiser for Caribdis or any other adult game dev to just hire independent artists to compose tracks for their game instead.

I mean that's going to take a dent on the dev time but the soundtrack will sound a bit uniform and thematic if done right instead of just being all over the place.

(And yes that was a jab at Caribdis' usage of "Run Boy Run" in Annie's first scene. Still think it sounds out-of-place given the mood and context of that particular scene, but I'm sure others would vehemently disagree)
 

Takkatakka

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So what you guys are basically saying is that royalty free license holders are regressive puritanical imbeciles and it would be wiser for Caribdis or any other adult game dev to just hire independent artists to compose tracks for their game instead.
It would also be a lot more expensive and probably not viable.
 

Mortarion

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So what you guys are basically saying is that royalty free license holders are regressive puritanical imbeciles and it would be wiser for Caribdis or any other adult game dev to just hire independent artists to compose tracks for their game instead.
When you put it that way, it could well be understood that way....

It would also be a lot more expensive and probably not viable.
Thats for sure, only minor fraction of devs could be able to master this financial effort, and now we don't even talk about the time ...
 

misfolk

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Jan 22, 2021
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I'm deeply sorry for you man, but it doesn't work with me I don't feed trolls, better for you to search elsewhere if you need to get facepalm reactions... ;)
What? Having her mouth open all the time is a part of Nova's design, she's a huge dork and that's what makes her adorable.
 

Dylan741

Forum Fanatic
Nov 18, 2019
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What? Having her mouth open all the time is a part of Nova's design, she's a huge dork and that's what makes her adorable.
Then you should have worded your post a little bit better, because I assure you that you sounded like a full fledged troll, not someone that was expressing love toward her.
Anyway let's say it was a misunderstanding and yeah, she's adorable on that I couldn't agree more with you. :) (y)
 

ShadowLordV1

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Aug 18, 2022
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Actually a likely possibility if all the legal questions about that can be worked out. AI could also be used to voice them as well.
I think with that music creators themselves will start changing the legality of copyright.
Remember the best way to deal with shit like this is to create competition.
Free Market Baby lessgo
 

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
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I think with that music creators themselves will start changing the legality of copyright.
Remember the best way to deal with shit like this is to create competition.
Free Market Baby lessgo
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Legal stuff like that is often very persistent in most countries, even if reality has moved far beyond it.
 

Frowster

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Nov 4, 2022
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So what you guys are basically saying is that royalty free license holders are regressive puritanical imbeciles and it would be wiser for Caribdis or any other adult game dev to just hire independent artists to compose tracks for their game instead.
Pretty much, though in most cases it's not the artists themselves kicking up a fuss about it. Many of them have no objections to their music being used in adult games. It's the large music libraries they sign up with for extra exposure that prohibit it... even if the artists themselves give you the green light!

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The name "Epidemic" really suits them just right. I think of them and yersinia pestis comes to mind...

In Drifty's case, it was actually a musician who initiated the DMCA claim... It turned out that she's a devout Christian and the song he used had been written by her for her wedding... where she also sang it to her now-husband. Then she saw it used in a "porn game"...
Awkward. :LOL:

Custom music is an option, but it's super expensive. Caribdis shouldn't consider that until he buys himself a place like Luna's uncle has and goes on early retirement. :HideThePain:
 

Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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Pretty much, though in most cases it's not the artists themselves kicking up a fuss about it. Many of them have no objections to their music being used in adult games. It's the large music libraries they sign up with for extra exposure that prohibit it... even if the artists themselves give you the green light!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The name "Epidemic" really suits them just right. I think of them and yersinia pestis comes to mind...

In Drifty's case, it was actually a musician who initiated the DMCA claim... It turned out that she's a devout Christian and the song he used had been written by her for her wedding... where she also sang it to her now-husband. Then she saw it used in a "porn game"...
Awkward. :LOL:
That's why I specifically said license holders, not artists (though as you pointed out, some artists may find issue with the use of music as well, but in that case they shouldn't really have handed over the rights off to their work to some faceless company if the piece means something to them. But that's just my opinion on the matter).

Custom music is an option, but it's super expensive. Caribdis shouldn't consider that until he buys himself a place like Luna's uncle has and goes on early retirement. :HideThePain:
Or he could just put it up as a Patreon goal. Because...you know, that's the point of those things, really. :whistle:
 
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Elhemeer

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Jun 20, 2022
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Pretty much, though in most cases it's not the artists themselves kicking up a fuss about it. Many of them have no objections to their music being used in adult games. It's the large music libraries they sign up with for extra exposure that prohibit it... even if the artists themselves give you the green light!

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The name "Epidemic" really suits them just right. I think of them and yersinia pestis comes to mind...

In Drifty's case, it was actually a musician who initiated the DMCA claim... It turned out that she's a devout Christian and the song he used had been written by her for her wedding... where she also sang it to her now-husband. Then she saw it used in a "porn game"...
Awkward. :LOL:

Custom music is an option, but it's super expensive. Caribdis shouldn't consider that until he buys himself a place like Luna's uncle has and goes on early retirement. :HideThePain:
Funny ... Drifty just shared some of his experience dealing with the music for u4ia today in his weekly update ...
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Frowster

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Funny ... Drifty just shared some of his experience dealing with the music for u4ia today in his weekly update ...
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Thanks, I didn't check my mail today and missed it.

Yep, getting licensed music for an AVN is a lot trickier than it might seem at first. The good days when those companies didn't give a damn are gone. Thankfully there are plenty of open-minded musicians out there, but I wish those companies stopped throwing logs under devs' feet like this.

More quality, story-driven AVNs (as opposed to "porn games") such as Eternum might help remove some of the stigma surrounding the genre.
 
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