VN Ren'Py Abandoned Evil Never Dies [Ch. 1 Complete] [Sylver Games]

[Rory Smith]

Got Android version apk. 484 mb

 

[Deleted member 1776160]

I don't mind sandboxes as long as it isn't too grindy or there are mods that help reduce the grind. That said, sometimes it is very annoying for any random reason to need to restart a game and redo the entire grind. I don't play these for the "game" (I have a 100 Steam game for that) I play for the wank. Having a story behind the wank or a decent tease/build is why I exist on F95. Else I would go to pornhub, get a quick release, and then hop on what ever Steam game I have.
Games that cater too much to the grind masochist need their own tag

 

[TheDevian]

I'm seeing a couple of different viewpoints in the "to free roam or not to free roam" question.

One, it seems that some players want to be 'spoon-fed' the story, without having to fire too many synapses along the way (I'm in that group).
Others like to exercise their cortical layer, or they get bored (TheDevian seems to be in that camp). If you're a 'lazy reader', like me, you'll avoid choice driven, multi-path games. The more cerebral the player, the more challenge they're looking for.

Two, so many 'sandbox' projects are designed to utilize "grind" for stats management . . . something that is poorly done, far more often than not. Since so many devs don't seem to understand the concept of efficient stats management in game mechanics, many players assume that ALL devs have no understanding of it. When you ignore ALL games that contain 'free roam', you'll likely miss out on only a very few 'gems', but you will miss a few 'gems', indeed.

To me, the worst tag a 'game' could get is 'kinetic novel', if I wanted that, I would just watch porn or read a book. Mindlessly clicking enter doesn't entertain me. I need choices, I need options, I need to feel like I am the one in control of my character. I am like that with all games, some on the rails shooter holds no interest for me either, but it takes all kinds.

I don't mind some grind as long as it doesn't go overbord, I like some management, I like strategy, I like planning, I Like to think, but most of all, I like being able to chose what I do. I need to feel like I am doing something.

I don't think there will be any grind in here, even if there are technically stats for the girls. There is a hint system, so you don't really have to think. She is going to add notifications on the map as soon as she figures it out. She said that scenes you miss on one day, will be able to be seen later (though the points might be different).

I think she is on the right track here, and that almost everyone can play this without using too many brain cells if they don't want to, while still allowing for some player agency.

 

[Norman Knight]

To me, the worst tag a 'game' could get is 'kinetic novel', if I wanted that, I would just watch porn or read a book. Mindlessly clicking enter doesn't entertain me. I need choices, I need options, I need to feel like I am the one in control of my character. I am like that with all games, some on the rails shooter holds no interest for me either, but it takes all kinds.

I don't mind some grind as long as it doesn't go overbord, I like some management, I like strategy, I like planning, I Like to think, but most of all, I like being able to chose what I do. I need to feel like I am doing something.

What you are describing its not a visual novel, its an Age Of Empires spin-off

the problem with the sandbox and the reason that people hate them is because:

1--they are full of grind, making the player waste ours grinding just to get a render

2--they are empty, they show you a huge map or a free roam of a place, but there is nothing to do there, which leads to the player clicking everywhere trying to find the next content.

3--they give you fake choices, they give you the choice on what to do and with whom, but to advance the main story line they require that you finished all other content before you can proceed, so all those choices you made that make you feel in control where all fake and you have to do all that content you ignored.

A sandbox that manages to avoid these 3 points can be an enjoyable game, but so few do it that the usual response of complaining about the sandbox its more often then not justified, perhaps this dev will do things differently its too early to tell.

 

[Jsd16]

No... Just no. In most cases, sandboxes are just time-wasting filler. Waste time hunting for an event through multiple areas. Waste time grinding points/stats/$$$/items. Waste time waiting for the right time of day. Wasting time repeating the same scene to get the next one. You're literally just wasting time to get the same amount of content. Wait... actually, you might be getting less content because the dev has to implement sandbox and resolve any issues that come with it...

I totally agree with Crosaith , It's common for majority of players to hate SANDBOX aspect of the game which requires specific time of day , stats and locations using map which always becomes hectic and grind even with hints , where we have to skip to specific time of day to have content and instead of dev focusing on story he has to work on both sandbox aspects and story which will takes larger time inbetween updates and atleast 70 % players playing games will hate Sandbox and if dev decides to do a poll it will be always VN that wins . And being sandbox it doesn't reach wider audience due to fact that most of people usually skip games with sandbox tag .I for one decided to skip this game only for this sandbox aspect though the story seems interesting . Anyway it's her game she can work on this game as she wishes it .( sry for my english , it's not my native language )

 

[zeerin]

This is a very minor nitpick, but [brackets] and (parenthesis).

 

[TheDevian]

What you are describing its not a visual novel, its an Age Of Empires spin-off

the problem with the sandbox and the reason that people hate them is because:

1--they are full of grind, making the player waste ours grinding just to get a render

2--they are empty, they show you a huge map or a free roam of a place, but there is nothing to do there, which leads to the player clicking everywhere trying to ring the next content.

3--the offer fake choices, they give you the choice on what to do and with whom, but to advance the main story line they require that you finished all other content before you can proceed, so all those choices you made that make you feel in control where all fake and you have to do all that content you ignored.

A sandbox that manages to avoid these 3 points can be an enjoyable game, but so few do it that the usual response of complaining about the sandbox its more often then not justified, perhaps this dev will do things differently its too early to tell.

No, what I am describing, are things I like in games. Isn't that some freemium bullshit? Fuck that crap.

1) Not all of them, no.
2) Not all of them, no.
3) Not all of them, no.

You can't blame the type of game because of some people who don't know how to make one. There are shitty games here that are not sandbox too, but do you paint all of THEM with the same brush too? Do you hate on all VN style one because of some garbage games? Do you hate on all Daz games, because some people don't know how to use it? Or just use premade models?

Yes, there are many sandbox games that are poorly done, just as there are with every other type of game there is. This will not be a grind-fest.

What I will never understand, is why people see a game with a tag they don't like, and then spend a lot of time complaining about it, rather than to move on to one of the other thousands of games here.

 

[Sylver Games]

I totally agree with Crosaith , It's common for majority of players to hate SANDBOX aspect of the game which requires specific time of day , stats and locations using map which always becomes hectic and grind even with hints , where we have to skip to specific time of day to have content and instead of dev focusing on story he has to work on both sandbox aspects and story which will takes larger time inbetween updates and atleast 70 % players playing games will hate Sandbox and if dev decides to do a poll it will be always VN that wins . And being sandbox it doesn't reach wider audience due to fact that most of people usually skip games with sandbox tag .I for one decided to skip this game only for this sandbox aspect though the story seems interesting . Anyway it's her game she can work on this game as she wishes it .( sry for my english , it's not my native language )

Contrary to what everyone thinks about sandboxes, this particular game has and always will have zero grinding, there is no need to wait for 'x' time of day to unlock content. The real reason for the map of the resort and the city is to introduce the ability to choose what to do and where to go at any time (there is always content available in certain places on the map, either content directly related to the main story or extra content not directly related to the story).

 

[Norman Knight]

No, what I am describing, are things I like in games. Isn't that some freemium bullshit? Fuck that crap.

1) Not all of them, no.
2) Not all of them, no.
3) Not all of them, no.

You can't blame the type of game because of some people who don't know how to make one. There are shitty games here that are not sandbox too, but do you paint all of THEM with the same brush too? Do you hate on all VN style one because of some garbage games? Do you hate on all Daz games, because some people don't know how to use it? Or just use premade models?

Yes, there are many sandbox games that are poorly done, just as there are with every other type of game there is. This will not be a grind-fest.

What I will never understand, is why people see a game with a tag they don't like, and then spend a lot of time complaining about it, rather than to move on to one of the other thousands of games here.

I wasn't complaining, I was just explaining why people don't like sandbox games and since the dev is here they can read the comments and now what to avoid, while you have a point that there is poorly made games on all genres and styles, the sandbox ones are the worst in that regard because unlike a regular novel you can't skip anything, you have to go true that grind again if for any reason you have to start again. Fortunately this game is not shaped as a grind fest so that must be conceded.

I find it ironic that you don't like it when people generalize about sandbox, but you generalize about kinetic novels, saying its the worse tag a game can get, a little consistency perhaps?

In the end the dev is whiting theirs rights to make their game in the way they like just as people are whiting theirs rights to comment on what aspect of the game they don't like.

I actually liked the game, and if the dev reads this ill just say good luck with your project, I will only advise that you don't let yourself be influenced by the blind haters and the blind fanboys, try to find among the critics the ones that make sense, not every criticism is a hate letter.

 

[Norman Knight]

Contrary to what everyone thinks about sandboxes, this particular game has and always will have zero grinding, there is no need to wait for 'x' time of day to unlock content. The real reason for the map of the resort and the city is to introduce the ability to choose what to do and where to go at any time (there is always content available in certain places on the map, either content directly related to the main story or extra content not directly related to the story).

And this is the best way to make a sandbox, no grind and no empty locations.

Don't take my early comments as hate against your game, I actually like it, the characters were interesting and the way the game is designed doesn't make the players waste their time with grind, I actually want to play more of this game because I like how the sandbox aspect was handled, its just that sandbox games have a stigma that won't go away as long as people keep making the same poorly design grind fest.

 

[Jsd16]

Sandbox tag removed , Sandbox game with no sandbox tag . If Sandbox is how u will develop ur game it's fine , we'll just ignore it but don't try to fool people who doesn't like Sandbox games , it's worse than having Sandbox tag .

 

[TheDevian]

I wasn't complaining, I was just explaining why people don't like sandbox games and since the dev is here they can read the comments and now what to avoid, while you have a point that there is poorly made games on all genres an styles, the sandbox one are the worst in that regard because unlike a regular novel you can't skip anything, you have to go true that grind again if for any reason you have to start again. Fortunately this game is not shaped as a grind fest so that must be conceded.

I find it ironic that you don't like it when people generalize about sandbox, but you generalize about kinetic novels, saying its the worse tag a game can get, a little consistency perhaps?

In the end the dev is whiting theirs rights to make their game in the way they like just as people are whiting theirs rights to comment on what aspect of the game they don't like.

I actually liked the game, and if the dev reads this ill just say good luck with your project, I will only advise that you don't let yourself be influenced by the blind haters and the blind fanboys, try to find among the critics the ones that make sense, not every criticism is a hate letter.

I try not to generalize, and there are exceptions to prove every rule (there is one I don't hate, because it is very short, and you can at least click the different camera angles, so not enough time to get bored), but I am not generalizing there, that is the one defining thing about a Kinetic novel, there is nothing to do except click 'next'. That is not a generalization, but the definition, and it is something I personally hate. They bore me to death.

I started off responding to people who said "sandbox? I'm out!", which is where that came from. Glad you are not one of them. Personally, I don't mind some grind, if there is plenty to do, but like she said, this isn't one of those games. Sadly, this issue tends to be almost as bad as the NTR one.

Personally, I see a lot of real potential in this game, and I am not just saying that because I am bias.

Sandbox tag removed , Sandbox game with no sandbox tag . If Sandbox is how u will develop ur game it's fine , we'll just ignore it but don't try to fool people who doesn't like Sandbox games , it's worse than having Sandbox tag .

It DID have one...

 

[Norman Knight]

I think there needs to be a tag for this type of game, something like "Free Roam", like a sandbox but without the grind and the confusing navigation, the only sandbox element in this game is the map that lets you chose what to do.

 

[Jsd16]

It DID have one...
Where is it now ?
Surprising players with sandbox elements like map with no sandbox tag will lead to lower ratings and severe criticism . U made a Sandbox game , own it , instead of trying to correct it or fool people .

 

[TheDevian]

It DID have one...
Where is it now ?
Surprising players with sandbox elements like map with no sandbox tag will lead to lower ratings and severe criticism . U made a Sandbox game , own it , instead of trying to correct it or fool people .

No one is trying to fool anyone, I don't know what happened, seems like one of the mods removed it.

 

[Norman Knight]

I try not to generalize, and there are exceptions to prove every rule (there is one I don't hate, because it is very short, and you can at least click the different camera angles, so not enough time to get bored), but I am not generalizing there, that is the one defining thing about a Kinetic novel, there is nothing to do except click 'next'. That is not a generalization, but the definition, and it is something I personally hate. They bore me to death.

I started off responding to people who said "sandbox? I'm out!", which is where that came from. Glad you are not one of them. Personally, I don't mind some grind, if there is plenty to do, but like she said, this isn't one of those games. Sadly, this issue tends to be almost as bad as the NTR one.

Personally, I see a lot of real potential in this game, and I am not just saying that because I am bias.

It DID have one...

No problem man it was just an exchange of opinions, I don't hate sandbox games, I hate poorly made grind fest.

I'm actually helping a dev with the translation of his game and that game is a "Free roam" like this one, there is no grind, but the game is made to let the player explore and talk to the characters, and you can actually find secrets by exploring, or you can just follow the journal and get to the main story line.

Unfortunately the bad reputation of the sandbox games is not going away anytime soon, as long as people keep making the same poorly design grind fest cash grabs.

 

[TheDevian]

No problem man it was just an exchange of opinions, I don't hate sandbox games, I hate poorly made grind fest.

I'm actually helping a dev with the translation of his game and that game is a "Free roam" like this one, there is no grind, but the game is made to let the player explore and talk to the characters, and you can actually find secrets by exploring, or you can just follow the journal and get to the main story line.

Unfortunately the bad reputation of the sandbox games is not going away anytime soon, as long as people keep making the same poorly design grind fest cash grabs.

Yup, making my own game in much the same way.

Yup, there is a lot of trash out there, sandbox and non. It almost makes me glad I don't have time to play many games these days, but Syvler is quite dedicated to making a good game and is eager to improve.

 

[Sylver Games]

It DID have one...
Where is it now ?
Surprising players with sandbox elements like map with no sandbox tag will lead to lower ratings and severe criticism . U made a Sandbox game , own it , instead of trying to correct it or fool people .

The sandbox tag is there

 

[zeus04]

Looks great

 

[Sylver Games]

The sandbox tag is there

Now, I changed the internal tag to 'Free roam', It's more faithful to the idea behind the map.