Ren'Py Fashion Business [Ep.4 v7.01 Extra] [DecentMonkey]

3.50 star(s) 222 Votes
Discussion Reviews (222)
agn25

agn25

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Nov 20, 2017
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DSM010 said:
Never mind, the trucker finally showed up. But I still have no idea what the RED / BLUE / YELLOW designations mean, lol. Whatever, no worries.

Anyway, this is generally a very good game all round.

However, I think that there is a huge lost opportunity for additional eroticism. In my opinion, the greatest potential for eroticism occurs inside the mind of the main character, and their internal responses to the circumstances & events happening to them. Many games focus only on presenting the external events / circumstances / dialogues / physical actions, and miss the internal aspects completely.

Fashion Business does make consistent attempts to present some internal dialog, and this is commendable. But the internal content still misses the mark in my opinion.

In Monica's case, we have an internal dialog that is comprised primarily of disgust / anger / resistance / complaining / hatred / etc. And this would be totally understandable coming from someone who is presented with an unpleasant circumstance, and then immediately runs away in horror.

But Monica does not run away. She proceeds headlong into bad situations and participates in the activities, often to a greater degree than any normal person ever would. And yet she remains almost entirely unaffected by it. Her only internal response is that she hates it. And this response has remained fairly consistent throughout Episodes 1-3. There have been only a couple of occasions where she acknowledges the erotic aspects or the pleasant sensations connected to the activities. This doesn't make sense, and is a lost opportunity in my opinion.

Monica has unwillingly engaged in more sexual activities with more partners than most people would ever have opportunity to do, even if they were totally willing. She is a sex maniac without actually being a sexual person. That is an interesting dichotomy, but it does not make sense to leave it as static condition.

No semi-normal human being could sustain that dichotomy without eventually responding to it somehow; even if just as a coping mechanism. At some point, a person would evaluate their goals verses the personal costs of attaining those goals. Monica sometimes does this in a superficial sense, but it does not seem very meaningful, and it doesn't seem to make any difference to her overall actions. It usually occurs before or after the event, and so does not contribute any erotic quality during the event itself. It actually feels more like the writer's attempt to justify the improbable choices made by their main character.

I believe that there needs to be a gradual arc in her internal response to all of the activities she engages in. And it should be possible to have this internal 'response arc' occur while leaving her primary ambitions intact. Most sexual experiences are inherently pleasurable because that's sort of how biology works. And even if the experience is not pleasurable because of the circumstances, it will certainly be deeply felt by the participant because that's how the central nervous system works. So Monica cannot be left physically & emotionally unaffected by her experiences. She is not a sex robot.

I suspect that the developer's response to all this would be, “How a normal person behaves here is irrelevant. This is an erotic fantasy game.” Fair enough. However, that still leaves the missed opportunity of increased eroticism unaddressed. “This is an erotic fantasy game” after all. And of course, the target audience of this game is comprised of real human beings that do have internal dialogues from which erotic tendencies originate from. So we can't dispense with psychological & emotional realism entirely here.

Another interesting game is called Downfall - A Story of Corruption. The game itself is much shorter, has a totally different style of play, and is a different story. But the writers did decent job of presenting the MC's internal response arc to their experiences. And that internal response arc is one of the most erotic aspects of the game. You find yourself asking - “How does she feel while she is doing this? How will she feel about this after experiencing it? Does / did it turn her on? Will she acknowledge this fact? How will it influence her future actions?” These questions lingering in the background make the physical aspects of the sexual situations on-screen much more arousing. The MC in this story often acknowledges the unsavoury aspect of the situations, but revels in the naughtiness & pleasure of the physical sensations – which is very erotic. She is responding sexually.

In Fashion Business, Monica frequently acknowledges the unsavoury aspect of her situations, but makes very little acknowledgement of the physical sensations – which is very mundane and un-erotic. She is not responding sexually, and thus, the player (you & me) might also have reduced sexual response.

If there needs to be a persistent dichotomy in Monica's character, it would be more interesting to have it grow into a situation where she starts to really enjoy the sensations of the sex, while still disliking the circumstances & the other characters. In fact, this internal conflict can turn into an ongoing thematic element of its own. The writers are providing the raw materials for this conflict within the general framework of the story, but are not really using or developing these materials to proper effect.

Even if Monica persistently hates everyone & everything, my question is – When will she start enjoying the sex?

Because that is when I (the reader) will also start enjoying it more too.
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Good post. I enjoyed reading it. I have no idea what the colours of the days mean either. :)

I don't agree that any opportunities have been missed with eroticism in not having Monica internally liking or wanting sex. In my opinion the eroticism of the game comes from the escalation of the acts Monica takes part in. There is a definite gradual arc of her normalising her new life, not of her enjoying it. She is in no way a sex maniac and that is the point. She will endure what she needs too if it will, as she believes, enable her to gain her power and position in society back. (or earn $10):)

Many would agree with you in wanting a Monica who becomes sex mad( Or even just liking sex) from what she is going through but in my view that would ruin the game. Its Monica's attitude to life and the people around her that separates this game from the crowd. Her attitude of contempt of the people she is engaging with as she performs more lewd acts followed by even more lewd acts misses no opportunities of eroticism. The eroticism I find in the game is the escalation and Monica's improvement through experience with sex acts e.g.,deeper blowjobs, anal, dp's.

The game does show her attitude change. A good example of her internal mind having been affected from her new life, is her enthusiasm of the alcohol being offered at the latest Campbell public event. Comparing her attitude from the first Campbell party for instance illustrates how her morality has changed towards it, as it has for many other things. She just has never wanted or liked sex.(I don't want to use the A word:)) I don't believe her keeping these traits throughout, harms the game. I believe they improve it.

This post, like yours was for you, just my opinion. Happy to disagree.
 
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DSM010

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May 6, 2022
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agn25 said:
Good post. I enjoyed reading it. I have no idea what the colours of the days mean either. :)

I don't agree that any opportunities have been missed with eroticism in not having Monica internally liking or wanting sex. In my opinion the eroticism of the game comes from the escalation of the acts Monica takes part in. There is a definite gradual arc of her normalising her new life, not of her enjoying it. She is in no way a sex maniac and that is the point. She will endure what she needs too if it will, as she believes, enable her to gain her power and position in society back. (or earn $10):)

Many would agree with you in wanting a Monica who becomes sex mad( Or even just liking sex) from what she is going through but in my view that would ruin the game. Its Monica's attitude to life and the people around her that separates this game from the crowd. Her attitude of contempt of the people she is engaging with as she performs more lewd acts followed by even more lewd acts misses no opportunities of eroticism. The eroticism I find in the game is the escalation and Monica's improvement through experience with sex acts e.g.,deeper blowjobs, anal, dp's.

The game does show her attitude change. A good example of her internal mind having been affected from her new life, is her enthusiasm of the alcohol being offered at the latest Campbell public event. Comparing her attitude from the first Campbell party for instance illustrates how her morality has changed towards it, as it has for many other things. She just has never wanted or liked sex.(I don't want to use the A word:)) I don't believe her keeping these traits throughout, harms the game. I believe they improve it.

This post, like yours was for you, just my opinion. Happy to disagree.
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Your response is well-considered and much appreciated. An excellent counter-argument to my opinions. I could probably ultimately be convinced to settle on a position that is somewhere in the middle.

I don't actually think she is truly a sex maniac. Indeed, she openly hates most of the activities she participates in. However, her outward actions do seem to mirror the activities of someone who is a maniac. And yes, that is part of her interesting internal conflict. But I honestly don't think any real person would go the extremes that Monica does in achieving personal goals without some kind of sexual / psychological pathology gradually setting in.

I would still like to see a more reflective & slightly erotic variety in her internal dialog. But not to the detriment of the game arc, as you rightly pointed out.

Another interesting, but unrelated, theme in this game is personal fulfillment despite non-acquisition of material assets. Monica is gradually achieving greater influence & control in her world, while still living in slums / hostel / shared apartment / basement room, i.e. poverty. That is also improbable, but fascinating. It would be very cool if Monica could some day achieve all of her tactical goals while still living in slums. That would possibly signify that she had achieved a kind of ultimate liberty, in addition to the moral liberty that she is unwittingly moving towards.

Reminds me a little of John Berger's comments (Ways of Seeing essay) on the real nature & influence of glamour & fashion on people's worldviews. Somewhat appropriate in context of a game set in the fashion business.

(By the way, i haven't finished the game. So my opinions are limited by that.)
 
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Stan5851

Stan5851

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Oct 18, 2019
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DSM010 said:
Your response is well-considered and much appreciated. An excellent counter-argument to my opinions. I could probably ultimately be convinced to settle on a position that is somewhere in the middle.

I don't actually think she is truly a sex maniac. Indeed, she openly hates most of the activities she participates in. However, her outward actions do seem to mirror the activities of someone who is a maniac. And yes, that is part of her interesting internal conflict. But I honestly don't think any real person would go the extremes that Monica does in achieving personal goals without some kind of sexual / psychological pathology gradually setting in.

I would still like to see a more reflective & slightly erotic variety in her internal dialog. But not to the detriment of the game arc, as you rightly pointed out.

Another interesting, but unrelated, theme in this game is personal fulfillment despite non-acquisition of material assets. Monica is gradually achieving greater influence & control in her world, while still living in slums / hostel / shared apartment / basement room, i.e. poverty. That is also improbable, but fascinating. It would be very cool if Monica could some day achieve all of her tactical goals while still living in slums. That would possibly signify that she had achieved a kind of ultimate liberty, in addition to the moral liberty that she is unwittingly moving towards.

Reminds me a little of John Berger's comments (Ways of Seeing essay) on the real nature & influence of glamour & fashion on people's worldviews. Somewhat appropriate in context of a game set in the fashion business.

(By the way, i haven't finished the game. So my opinions are limited by that.)
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hebezoo

New Member
Sep 18, 2021
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Qixoni said:
I found something odd, suddenly i´m not able to sleep on the bed of my house in the slums, it´s that suppose to happen? I Already paid the rent sucessful 2 times, so, everything is in order in that aspect. I already slept 3 times with Ralph, but i don´t see how that denies me sleeping in the slum´s house

Edit: Due to this for some reason, the Kebab guy doesn´t appear on my apartment to collect rent. Supposey i need to sleep from friday to saturday in the apartment for him to automatically appear right?
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Have you been able to solve this issue? I have the same problem.
 
Stan5851

Stan5851

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Ostego said:
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Btw, don`t you think that Victoria pushing Melanie to confront Monica now?
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Yeah, I think so too. The question is, why is she doing this? Is it just her way of having fun or is it Philip's order? There's a lot to consider.
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Astrid Hofferson

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Aug 12, 2020
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Stan5851 said:
Welcome to the internet, bro. :giggle: I've never made a secret of it. There are other people in this thread who speak excellent Russian. Moreover, the developer himself knows Russian and originally wrote all the dialogues for Fashion Business in that language.
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I know cause it's my native language) And I was surprised when I saw it in preferences and thought that maybe the developer from my country
 
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Astrid Hofferson

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Aug 12, 2020
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Stan5851 said:
Welcome to the internet, bro. :giggle: I've never made a secret of it. There are other people in this thread who speak excellent Russian. Moreover, the developer himself knows Russian and originally wrote all the dialogues for Fashion Business in that language.
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Well, but do you know how to contact him?..
 
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3.50 star(s) 222 Votes