HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[slatts00]

Unbelievable that the output so far represents 6 years of someone's life. We must be looking at not far off an hour a word. I'm not particularly bothered about it, because it's not costing me anything, but I find it utterly amazing that this is the case.

 

[DashaTaran]

soon soon soon soon soon

and again...

soon

wtf

 

[Ripe]

It can take 1 month, but even at that rate as a developer after 12 updates like this I would burn out most likely.

I can name at least two developers on this site that are (or were) releasing monthly updates for their games and have been doing that for 4+ years before they slowed it down to bi-monthly updates... one of them doing an RPGM text based game and the other doing Ren'py fully 3D art one. Not to mention that I can think of one who releases game with 3D animations on bi-weekly schedule (every 2nd and 15th of the month). Granted, I think that one finished most of the game before starting to release it considering his (or hers) 3rd game is not yet fully complete but he (or she) already started working on 4th game...

And all of those developers have a whole lot more content in their releases then Crush have in his.

Also, the idea is to try and get crush into an update schedule that is actually doable for HIM, not that an actual great developer could do. This is why I have decided that a 3 month update schedule is perfectly reasonable, if you've been reading my posts and trying to understand them that is. Most games don't update faster than 3 months, with like very few exceptions like Star Knightess Aura, or some text game that has little or no art overheard / real porn. A 3 month update schedule is bearable, for the developer and for the people waiting for the update. It means 4 major updates a year. Which means the game could actually be completed in 6 more years vs. the 6 years we've had and aren't even halfway there.

No, 3 months update schedule for a text base game is not reasonable or acceptable. Especially not for a game with next to no art. For a game like this, 2 months would be pushing it to the point of it being unacceptable. And we're now at 4 months and it will most likely be 5 before next update gets released...

The base update SHOULD be done in 2 months. CRUSH can have his 1 month of editing. Giving us a 3 month update schedule. Lets have the audience/patreons/crush himself agree with this minimally before we go claiming 3 weeks is enough to do everything. "There is absolutely no reason for updates to take more then a few weeks, a month at most .." Which to me seems like you're pushing on the extreme end if you expect any game on this site to be 3 weeks, you'll be disappointed.

For amount of content Crush releases... yeah, a month is reasonable. As I said, I can name at least three games that have or had at most monthly releases while still adding more new content than Crush does.

Also, I have said for a long time that the story for the game needs to be pre-written in order for updates to be fast and consistent. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence the story for the game from beginning to end is planned and written. It seems like crush does everything on the fly, which is why every update takes so long since the creative process involves sitting and thinking sometimes about where you want to take the story. Ideally crush should post the whole story from beginning to end so we can see that there is some pre-planning involved.

Yeah, at this point it should be pretty clear that Crush doesn't have a plan for what to do with the game... or what direction he want the game to go.

 

[yoloman12]

reminder this guy earns €6,021/month

you can hire at least 2 people to work 40 hours a week on this game.
as a hardworking person i personally find his

*
I put in about 80 more hours last week, and was able to achieve the following:

• Reworked the ending scenes so they flow better
• Coded in the new episode art
• Punched up several scenes and made them way better

*

just crap but that's just a opinion

 

[Ripe]

So you can name 2 games out of 1000 on this site? You recognize this is not disagreeing with anything I said?

That is because don't I play that many games... but of the limited number of developers whose games I play (which is less then 10), three of them are providing updates regularly.

a) I said there are a few who do faster than 3 month updates
- But usually: the game is real porn.
- But usually: the game is browser based/RPGM with limited or bad graphics.
- Sometimes the developer is just good (Star Knightess Aura etc).

None of the games are mentioned use real porn. One is RPGM with limited graphic (but then again, FA is browser based game with extremely limited graphic) and others use fully rendered 3D art.

b) I said it's possible for crush to update in 1 month, but this has a potential to lead to burnout.

You basically said the exact same thing: "releasing monthly updates for their games and have been doing that for 4+ years before they slowed it down to bi-monthly updates." Sure, different people will begin to slow it down at different times but eventually everyone slows down and everyone will have different tolerances for how much they can work before burning out.

Yeah, they slowed down but both of those games are in their 60's (one is closing on 70 update) for number of updates and that slow down didn't happen until version number hit mid 50's... not to mention that one of those developers also released FIVE other complete games during those 5+ years! And none of those games are short games either! And the reason for going from monthly to bi-monthly wasn't burnout... it was the fact that games because too complex with way too many moving parts so it was getting harder to do all the work needed.

And that doesn't account for that last developer that is closing ending on it's third game (he also started working on his fourth game) and is still releasing fully rendered 3D animations on bi-weekly schedule.

Within the realm of what is reasonable as opposed to what is strictly possible on paper: 1 month updates are reasonable, but so are 2 months, and 3 months I would say is at the very limit of what is reasonable? But this would include the 1 month of editing that Crush wants to do. It's not 3 months to compose the update, and then 1+2 months of editing which is what Crush is currently doing.

We're talking about browser based text game with paperdoll avatar. Two months development for at most 20-30 minutes gameplay is borderline acceptable for that. Everything longer than that is absolutely unacceptable.

So let's say I agree with you that 1 month is reasonable. First crush would have to have the whole game story and all branching paths pre-written and planned. This can take maybe 3 months of writing? Just halt his patreon and compose everything before beginning individual updates again. The issue is crushtation will never do this and currently there is no evidence of pre-planning, when pre-planning would be a huge boon to production speed of updates. Which already puts a huge strain on the 1 month update cycle when you have to plan and write everything on the fly.

So in other words, Crush sucks at his job.

Also, even if 1 month were reasonable, the games update schedule is usually not dictated by the writing, it's almost always dictated by the art because that's what can take a longer time. If the artist needs 2 months to do all the art for the game, then guess what? The game is now on a 2 month update schedule. If one update becomes really art heavy with minimal reuse of previous art assets or lots of clothing choices, then the artist likely need 2 months. So why not just stick to a 2 month update schedule and stop pushing the 1 month schedule? You even said there was a good developer who did monthly updates and then switched to 2 month updates; clearly even the best developers have issues with sticking to an update every month.

How much are you willing to bet art takes that long due to artist not being able to start working on the art because Crush didn't provide any input into what he'll need for the update? And that once Crush provides that input it takes his artist only a week or two to complete the work? Because we're not talking fully rendered 3D animations or art... we're talking a 2D paperdoll!

IMO it's extreme to expect a monthly update schedule. While a good writer can probably write new content every month without pre-planning, I don't think Crush is a particularly strong writer capable of doing this, especially if he's indecisive as a character trait — you need to be very certain of yourself to write without planning. The only way 1 month updates would fly is if he had everything pre-planned. This is why I could never claim Crush can do 1 month updates, even though it's possible on paper with the right developer.

Well, now I wonder what is his strong side. It's not writing, it's not planing, it's not decisiveness...

I think I could compromise with you and agree 2 months is reasonable. But I'd still be happy with 3 months. This 4-5 month BS isn't justifiable at all though.

Two months with occasional three would be fine IF the updates take an hour or two to go through... but with updates taking at most 30 minutes, two months is stretching it.

I think the issue is that developers are usually not very moral people, but it's not a trait of developers, as much as it's a trait of regular normal society and people. Nobody studies morality or anything. So imperfect people will do things imperfectly... it's not to say crush is immoral, or that most people are immoral, but morality requires practice and awareness, and so to some degree you also need to study some concepts to be aware of them really.

If I were a developer, I would just be totally transparent with people giving me money. In other words, I'd release all my notes, pre-planned stuff, if people want spoilers they can go spoil themselves. I would be honest and say, "No way in hell am I working 8 hour weeks, even if my patreon is making 8k a month." But I would tell people this. I'd say I am working 5 hours a day. The rest of my day I spend on myself and relaxing. I take weekends off, and 2 months in the summer, and I have 2 weeks at christmas off. And still I would probably push out 2 month updates. But my point is I'd be honest about it. People don't like I make 8k a month and have a nice life? well.. I'm lazy by nature, these are the conditions I enjoy working in, and this way the updates are more quality based.

It's not just developers... it's patreons who keep throwing their money on people like Crush and so many others.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Isn't it pretty clear that his strong point is sales? If there's one thing you genuinely cannot fault him, is that. He is fantastic at getting people to "invest" into a subpar product.

 

[Tallyhoe]

I think he put more time and effort to write these 'it doesn't feel right but it will come out soon I only have a few things to do' update log than the actual game.

 

[Davkin]

At this pace, assuming this game doesn't become abandoned, The Wind of Winter might be out before this game develop any significant plot progress.

 

[restlez]

At this pace, assuming this game doesn't become abandoned, The Wind of Winter might be out before this game develop any significant plot progress.

€6,021/month reason assures it won't get "abandoned".

It's not just developers... it's patreons who keep throwing their money on people like Crush and so many others.

Maybe he has a lot of supporters on the lowest tiers that don't feel the pinch of the cost of one coffee per month.

 

[bllx]

I can name at least two developers on this site that are (or were) releasing monthly updates for their games and have been doing that for 4+ years before they slowed it down to bi-monthly updates... one of them doing an RPGM text based game and the other doing Ren'py fully 3D art one. Not to mention that I can think of one who releases game with 3D animations on bi-weekly schedule (every 2nd and 15th of the month). Granted, I think that one finished most of the game before starting to release it considering his (or hers) 3rd game is not yet fully complete but he (or she) already started working on 4th game...

And all of those developers have a whole lot more content in their releases then Crush have in his.


No, 3 months update schedule for a text base game is not reasonable or acceptable. Especially not for a game with next to no art. For a game like this, 2 months would be pushing it to the point of it being unacceptable. And we're now at 4 months and it will most likely be 5 before next update gets released...


For amount of content Crush releases... yeah, a month is reasonable. As I said, I can name at least three games that have or had at most monthly releases while still adding more new content than Crush does.


Yeah, at this point it should be pretty clear that Crush doesn't have a plan for what to do with the game... or what direction he want the game to go.

could you give me the names of the games? don't trying to sound passive-aggressive, I just don't play many games on this site

 

[Breezerr]

reminder this guy earns €6,021/month

you can hire at least 2 people to work 40 hours a week on this game.

I won't defend him because It's definitely a lot of cash, and he is delivering not nearly enough for it, but I think you have miscalculated it. He still needs to pay taxes. Considering he keeps a decent amount for himself, and also considering he isn't some crappy employer who pays minimum wage, his Patreon income isn't really that much.

 

[Takkatakka]

I won't defend him because It's definitely a lot of cash, and he is delivering not nearly enough for it, but I think you have miscalculated it. He still needs to pay taxes. Considering he keeps a decent amount for himself, and also considering he isn't some crappy employer who pays minimum wage, his Patreon income isn't really that much.

He also has to pay Patreon from that, I think. So he probably won't even see half of the money after taxes and Patreon. I mean...depending on where you life that is still a decent amount, but he doesn't go home with 6k each month.

 

[rbx4]

I'm not defending anything, but I will say that customer engagement takes time, effort, and energy. If we're looking for what Crush is good at, it's customer engagement. It might not be his actual time sink, however (nobody is revealing that, although a hint drops occasionally).

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I won't defend him because It's definitely a lot of cash, and he is delivering not nearly enough for it, but I think you have miscalculated it. He still needs to pay taxes. Considering he keeps a decent amount for himself, and also considering he isn't some crappy employer who pays minimum wage, his Patreon income isn't really that much.

Every job needs to pay taxes. Every job tells you the amount that you'll earn before taxes. I don't know why that needs to be different here.

 

[Takkatakka]

Every job needs to pay taxes. Every job tells you the amount that you'll earn before taxes. I don't know why that needs to be different here.

Because he is self-employed. So depending on where you live that can make a big difference in a lot of terms compared to someone just being employed at a company.

 

[I-No]

reminder this guy earns €6,021/month

It's not easy to get this kind of money via Patreon & Co. - feel free to try! And as much as I hate Crush's embarrassingly slow update cycle - just like everyone does - in fact I am afraid only his patreons are entitled to complain. It's their money and therefore it's their descision. If those guys are ok with Crush's approach why should he change anything? If he manages to keep his patreons happy and ready to pay for his work then he's probably doing something right, isn't he?

 

[yoloman12]

I won't defend him because It's definitely a lot of cash, and he is delivering not nearly enough for it, but I think you have miscalculated it. He still needs to pay taxes. Considering he keeps a decent amount for himself, and also considering he isn't some crappy employer who pays minimum wage, his Patreon income isn't really that much.

even if he has to pay 3000 on taxes then he still earns more than the average person that has a normal job.
and if he earns to little to pay wages for workers. then he needs to work harder because if this is the amount of updates what is equal to 3 months of payments from patreon(or more)than i find it a scam but that is just an opinion of a guy that really works 60 hours a week.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Because he is self-employed. So depending on where you live that can make a big difference in a lot of terms compared to someone just being employed at a company.

Yeah, and depending on his personal life (married, children, disability, properties he owns and an obnoxious amount of conditions) or if he's using a company to pay himself he may have to pay even less taxes or significantly more. It doesn't change the fact that every job needs to pay taxes, and that, when someone says "I get paid 72k every year" we all know you don't end up with 72k in your bank account.

 

[Breezerr]

even if he has to pay 3000 on taxes then he still earns more than the average person that has a normal job.
and if he earns to little to pay wages for workers. then he needs to work harder because if this is the amount of updates what is equal to 3 months of payments from patreon(or more)than i find it a scam but that is just an opinion of a guy that really works 60 hours a week.

But that wasn't my point. I explicitly stated that he earns a lot of money and that his work isn't enough. My only point was, that your quoted statement about 2 full time employees isn't reasonable.

 

[Takkatakka]

But that wasn't my point. I explicitly stated that he earns a lot of money and that his work isn't enough. My only point was, that your quoted statement about 2 full time employees isn't reasonable.

I mean...he technically earns the money he earns. Patreon is in some ways the purest form of capitalism and people can pay him as long and as much as they think his work is worth to them. And while you might think it takes him too much time (and I would actually agree with that assessment) others apparently don't.