HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[Diconica]

I'm reasonably familiar with the source, although I just look at, don't really use Twine.

Avatar image list is arrays displayed as absolutely positioned layers... not sure if you're just not seeing it but Dev Tools in your browser and:

SugarCube.State.variables.avatar.body
SugarCube.State.variables.avatar.underwear
SugarCube.State.variables.avatar.clothing
etc.

used in SugarCube as a widget macro:

<<widget "avatar">>
...
<<for _i to 0; _i lt $avatar.clothing.length ; _i++>>
...

Then there's a ton of repetitious widgets for adding and removing clothes, facial expressions, tattoos etc.

The assumption was he would do the same thing I would have done given that is the simplest solution.
I didn't bother to investigate the entirety of it just assumed he got that right. Which you seem to confirm.

No idea what you mean about creating a store and using a single code base. Like updating state in React + Redux? Single code base? There's some evidence in code comments that some of the developers are compiling e.g. // import initAvatar from './scripts/avatar' but I wouldn't consider that a separate codebase.

Each time she buys something from the a store he created a separate store rather than just one store front and swaping the items out.

Guessing you didn't see:

<tw-passagedata...>>
<<header>>
<<page>>
...

Yeah, the main writer is probably using the Twine IDE. It's pretty obvious, if you look, that there have been other developers working on the game. I wouldn't be so quick to shit on their abilities and code if I were you... don't cast the first stone.

Their game works. It looks good. People want more. They massively don't care about our code review discussion.

I'm saying most of his so called coding comes down to formatting. Not usually counted as programming work by any reputable company or organization.
That doesn't discredit the work he did that is programming. Just says that there isn't much to that effect. Most of the heavy lifting is actually handled by twine and its developers.

It isn't as if he went out and created a game engine and wrote the game from the ground up.
Nor did he take something like Node.js and electron and write his own system on it or pure wrote this in html and js and css on his own.

That isn't to get down on people who use game engines other people created. In many cases there is still a lot of programming that goes on. Just not in this case. Most the programming in this case comes purely down to formatting.

The truth is the pages could have been designed in such a way to handle more of the formatting for him.
I know I wrote a story engine that does all the formatting. The game developer's job is to give select the images and the dialog and then what page the dialog leads to.

If there's one thing that Crush likes doing it's editing, am I right?!

My point was it is something that still takes them a good deal of work it isn't a free copy and paste.

Disagreeing with 'There is very little actual coding needed'. Sorry, the quoting on F95 only seems to do one level of quotes.

Fiddling to add complexity when you should rewrite the avatar code. Except you shouldn't because it's super good enough.

Would I rewrite it to solve bigger issues like images loading async or not at all? Only if people stopped paying me money because of this.

Without intending any offense whatsoever, I'm guessing you don't have decades of experience in web development? In my experience, if something complicated works good enough you learn to leave it TF alone and focus on something productive.

My point was it would have taken less code and work for him to do the same thing if he stuck with the SVG.
He could have created 1 svg and wrote one system to modify the color of it rather than having to create multiple images in different colors then widgets to swap them in and out.

Sounds great! I'm guessing they're just exporting from Illustrator and programmatically modifying SVGs is more than they want to deal with. But if you want to work for free, why not volunteer your time? =)

Modifying and SVG is the same as modifying HTML open one up and look at it in a text editor.

Except for a vocal minority of Patreon simps, nobody thinks they shouldn't have put out more content this release. And I don't think it's the code quality or assets conversion workflow that is holding them back.

This discussion started over how much work he put into the last release.
My point was he didn't do much and it didn't comes to but about 3 days works out of the 180 or so days he had.

 

[Breezerr]

It's from how the game was initially developed, pre 1.12 version. You can still play the older build, with the "we need you to work as undercover hooker from the start" storyline from the author's web site. (iirc it's the old engine 1.6.3 build which has that included, the 1.7-1.11 rework in the new engine petered out before getting to that point) The discussions which surrounded the revamp are likely spread across this thread, but please forgive me, i don't really feel determined enough to hunt relevant excerpts for you.

My question was where you got the information about the current premise, not the old one.

 

[Davkin]

If the dev wanted realism he would probably send Kate just as a field agent/overseer who navigates the whole operation and controls recruited bargirls who snitch for money. Then *insert story twist* happens and Kate have to step in or abort mission. This claim is a bit stronger than current one, anyway.

Don't give the game maker any new ideas on starting over the origin story...

 

[Crackcocaine]

Don't give the game maker any new ideas on starting over the origin story...

I would honestly be surprised if the origin story would make him redo some shit, I feel like the whole devilfish thing would be more likely to warrant that. I was under the impression that devilfish was somehow important to the bar but apparently not..........really don't know why they can't have people running stores outside of the bar or some shit. Sending an agent in for who knows how long simply because he's just a customer there (according to another comment) is kinda dumb to me.

Either way, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything good coming out of this game. Feels like he's just writing a novel now, lol.

 

[ffive]

My question was where you got the information about the current premise, not the old one.

Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find

You must be registered to see the links

which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

For example: as noted in the 1.12 reflections post, in the two months of 1.12's development, for 50% of that time the action was set in Scotland, not Malaysia, and the sex scenes were totally different (involving selecting a partner from Tinder, and having sex with him in a safehouse as part of a training exercise).

Like I said...these scenes weren't working for me in testing. I had to figure out why and also invent a solution (changing the mission spec from "hooker" to "topless barmaid" so the training sequence could be cut; deciding to switch the action to a new country and repurpose the Max scene instead)

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that

You must be registered to see the links

:

Looking at the list, one of the things I’m most excited about is the variety of sex quests that’ll become available after the heroine settles into her deep cover role as a hooker for the club. There are 32 hooker quests planned so far – some in the club, some that she’ll be called out to.

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find

You must be registered to see the links

which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that

You must be registered to see the links

:

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

If you go far back into this very same thread, you can find some posts from Crushtation himself that explains how the game came to be. Don't quote me on this, but the summarised version is: "I initially wanted to make whoring simulator. A good friend told me that wouldn't be successful and I needed a decent story, so the spy thing came to be".

Basically, "you become turbo whore" was always the initial thought. I don't like it mind you, and it is undeniable that the game was never advertised as that.

 

[boobthief]

Modifying and SVG is the same as modifying HTML open one up and look at it in a text editor.

Yeah... I once spent a few months of my life programmatically generating SVGs confined by multiple legal regulations that are displayed in at least a few million households. Probably safe to assume I know about and like SVGs.

I still don't think anyone should screw around with a working super-good-enough workflow. This is an indie game. They have a talented artist creating great assets they successfully integrate into their game. And nobody is complaining about the avatar!

Do you see? You or I can think of valid ways to improve the code but none of this is impeding them from releasing more content regularly.

This discussion started over how much work he put into the last release.
My point was he didn't do much and it didn't comes to but about 3 days works out of the 180 or so days he had.

Agree! Except I think they put in many more days of unproductive work.

From a project management perspective, one problem is the minimum timescale is one week not days or even hours. But there's nobody managing or tracking that or asking about work done yesterday, being done today, problems. So back to the old school question of how did a 60 day project take 180 days... Answer: one day at a time.

But I want to end on a positive: the reason why we and so many other people discuss this game is that they really enjoy it and it has great potential. It's far easier to criticize than create, fun too. I hope they stop listening to the sycophants on Patreon, take their medicine from the last update, and work to a release schedule.

 

[MrAnarchy]

Yeah... I once spent a few months of my life programmatically generating SVGs confined by multiple legal regulations that are displayed in at least a few million households. Probably safe to assume I know about and like SVGs.

I still don't think anyone should screw around with a working super-good-enough workflow. This is an indie game. They have a talented artist creating great assets they successfully integrate into their game. And nobody is complaining about the avatar!

Do you see? You or I can think of valid ways to improve the code but none of this is impeding them from releasing more content regularly.



Agree! Except I think they put in many more days of unproductive work.

From a project management perspective, one problem is the minimum timescale is one week not days or even hours. But there's nobody managing or tracking that or asking about work done yesterday, being done today, problems. So back to the old school question of how did a 60 day project take 180 days... Answer: one day at a time.

But I want to end on a positive: the reason why we and so many other people discuss this game is that they really enjoy it and it has great potential. It's far easier to criticize than create, fun too. I hope they stop listening to the sycophants on Patreon, take their medicine from the last update, and work to a release schedule.

From what I’ve seen, the posters on Patreon have actually been pretty critical of the last update, all the sycophants have moved to the toxic ass discord.

 

[Breezerr]

Like i said, you'd have to dig through the thread for the mention of it. Although there's always a question of which parts are just speculations, and which are actual dev quotes from discord or wherever.

E.g, if you dig around the patreon reports, you can find

You must be registered to see the links

which suggest the whole revamp was more of a spur of the moment thing:

Which is... quite a thing. "So, i've changed the story premise because i needed excuse to cut a scene from the introduction that i struggled with. How will that impact the fact the heroine was supposed to be undercover hooker and have tons of sex as such? lol, i didn't even think about it."

However, you can also find in these reports that

You must be registered to see the links

:

This was posted after the bargirl revamp was already in place. So, yeah. People who think they'll spend entire game as a bargirl are in for some severe disappointment.

Thank you.
I agree with you, that people will be disappointed if they expect something else from crush.
However, I don't think it's their fault if someone asks for a barkeeper-only route. The way crush is promoting the game, it would fit right in. You can't expect everyone to read hundreds of Patreon posts.


By the way, I think you mix up the words. If I'm correct, bargirls are the hookers.

 

[ffive]

By the way, I think you mix up the words. If I'm correct, bargirls are the hookers.

Am not sure, i was using the terms in the context of the game -- the bargirls serve the customers beer while working topless, and the hookers fuck the clients for money and "dance" i.e. publicly masturbate and have sex with one another on the stage.

You're right, should've been barmaid not bargirl :V

 

[boobthief]

From what I’ve seen, the posters on Patreon have actually been pretty critical of the last update, all the sycophants have moved to the toxic ass discord.

The latest Patreon comments seem to be at least 60:40 nauseatingly positive:

Don’t be so hard on yourself, Crush. You’re still the best storyteller out of all game creators...

Please don't be disheartened. It seems to me that you agonised over this release and wanted to get the theme of the story's corruption and compromise back to the fore following several scenes of badass spy Kate...

I had to think on it, but I really loved the update...

To me Kate’s reaction made perfect sense... While I don’t want you to not take in other people’s feedback I also don’t want you taking criticism too personally...

Sorry that we are a bunch of pervs...

No comments I've seen address the hype cycle: the longer you take to release, the more people expect. If you say you're polishing scenes for six weeks then people rightly expect some substantial fucking content.

It's a solved problem: release early, release often to allow for the occasional misfiring update and to get feedback then act on it. Always be working towards the demo.

Next update, late December 2023?

 

[Deniz31]

People on discord trying to find excuses and rationalize for her to suddenly become a prude on bj scene be like:

 

[XJ347]

Being sex positive doesn't mean being sexually abused doesn't hurt you mentally. Shouldn't matter if Kate is a prude or a black widow, this isn't mentally easy for her. You can get used to it, like losing a parent but it take time getting used to the change.

Think of it like putting your hand over a flame. Reluctant Kate will take her hand off REALLY fast, slutty Kate probably can keep her hand on it longer. A black widow Kate might not even move her hand BUT she will notice that it fucking hurts!

Overall though I think it's odd that people want to completely ignore it the trauma. This is a major component of corruption, breaking down someone defenses and molding them into someone else. Kate is being groomed into being a whore, and that can still happen after having a small breakdown. Actually it's kind of important. Corruption doesn't work if you are start completely deprived.

Is the problem that some people don't see this as a corruption game?

Do I think this update is written poorly? Sort of yeah, this trauma scene should be moved to when Connor first forces himself on you... or changed to describe it so it doesn't feel so out of no where, and better yet edited for the type of Kate.

 

[ffive]

Overall though I think it's odd that people want to completely ignore it the trauma.

I don't think people want to ignore the trauma. They just balk at things proceeding seemingly out of order, with the trauma explosion over a blowjob when the heroine was already made to fully fuck multiple people (and one of them repeatedly) with little to no apparent reaction from her other than "man it was kinda hot".

 

[MrAnarchy]

^This right here. It’s not the fact that there is trauma, it’s that the particular meltdown she’s having isn’t consistent with where we are in the story.

 

[ZebCaff]

Do I think this update is written poorly? Sort of yeah, this trauma scene should be moved to when Connor first forces himself on you... or changed to describe it so it doesn't feel so out of no where, and better yet edited for the type of Kate.

Yes - there's nothing wrong with the update as written, but it absolutely does need a trigger event - maybe something Ian says during the black bag at the medical office, which festers in her brain at night and on the way to work. Then having the BJ sprung on her u8nexpectedly can just push her over the edge. Having a serious wobble in her resolve is dramatically a good thing.

 

[MrAnarchy]

People on discord trying to find excuses and rationalize for her to suddenly become a prude on bj scene be like:
View attachment 2878427

I’m convinced that half the people on there are ashamed of themselves to be playing a porn game so they desperately perform mental gymnastics to convince themselves that they aren’t and when they give out suggestions it’s to force the game into not being “lewd”.

 

[Diconica]

There is no reason he couldn't track a stat like corruption, smuttiness, lust... and used it to ensure he had a measure for the correct reaction at the point in game.
He also could have story board it and that would have helped him keep track of stuff far easier.
There is software for doing it. Or one can even use HTML and SVG to make one real easy. Even software like Krita's SVG system can be used easily to handle it. Create a box with SVG and set the internal to an image and you can write text in the box regarding the scene. Then create another for the next scene and draw a line from one to the next.
For that matter you can do it the old fashion way with pencil and paper.

With the free tools available to help with such issues I'm not sure even if inexperience is even a good enough excuse for this.
It seems after 6 years you would have at least take the time to look for stuff to make such issues simpler to keep track of.

 

[rbx4]

With the free tools available to help with such issues I'm not sure even if inexperience is even a good enough excuse for this.
It seems after 6 years you would have at least take the time to look for stuff to make such issues simpler to keep track of.

I'm not sure how long inexperience will be applied to Crush, but for sure 6 or 7 years seems a stretch. I don't believe that inefficiency here has anything to do with technology--and I predict that Crush would not be much better or faster with the best technology than with the worst. I could speculate on the real issue, and I have, but this isn't the place to start mentioning personal speculations about real people. The game went from having many stats to having (from what I hear) none, which looks like in part a response to critique (I saw particular posts about this).

I'm here mostly for the bizarreness of this whole thread, but a secondary interest is the unusual complete overhaul of the game that took place. I think that normally someone is trying to create something similar to what they envision for a game in the first public release. To have something so different now is interesting. It suggests to me to again potentially stem from the early apparent complete shock and dismay that negative feedback of FA could have ever happened from any person. To not expect any negative feedback on the Internet, I don't know how someone gets there.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I'm not sure how long inexperience will be applied to Crush, but for sure 6 or 7 years seems a stretch. I don't believe that inefficiency here has anything to do with technology--and I predict that Crush would not be much better or faster with the best technology than with the worst. I could speculate on the real issue, and I have, but this isn't the place to start mentioning personal speculations about real people. The game went from having many stats to having (from what I hear) none, which looks like in part a response to critique (I saw particular posts about this).

I'm here mostly for the bizarreness of this whole thread, but a secondary interest is the unusual complete overhaul of the game that took place. I think that normally someone is trying to create something similar to what they envision for a game in the first public release. To have something so different now is interesting. It suggests to me to again potentially stem from the early apparent complete shock and dismay that negative feedback of FA could have ever happened from any person. To not expect any negative feedback on the Internet, I don't know how someone gets there.

The (latest) reboot and, especially the removal of the lifepath (technically, hiding, the code is still there) is based on one reason (note that it isn't a *logical* reason): "If I have to take into account all these variables and choices I will never get to Bangkok! Therefore I must remove those parts of the game altogether"

It is of course really silly considering the variables weren't even being used to begin with, and he could have chosen to ignore them altogether like he already did (seriously, back in the days you had stuff like "+1 Riding Motorcycle" and "+1 Rock Music")