VN Ren'Py Completed Freeloading Family [v0.32] [FFCreations]

[tanstaafl]

Sure that went well, she is not the one you are married to for 20 years, just you or her were smart enough to end it amicable after a year or so. Well if you are married for 20 years now, you should know the difference between what works short term and long term, that is the thing. Those kind of things work for a while as long as both parties have no jealousy, but the constant tensions it brings on longer lasting relations if you have bad relations with her significant emotional others can not be ignored and does not work without someone taking a serious backseat.

It has nothing to do with the sex in the first place, that is why I used the BFF example and not one she is also sexual with. The fact sex is also involved though beyond just the emotional investment in a serious non-romantic relation, makes it even worse qua impact over time.

The choice, well if you are married to someone or are in a real long term relation and you decide to have someone enter your life that is at least as important to you as that old partner, but does not like that partner and cannot integrate with that partner in a happy relation where they want to coexist and be friends together as well even if no sex together, you know that is going to give tensions and loads of stress for all involved over time if you are over 50 like I am as well. I never seen it work out happily, unhappily yup loads and loads of time even if those friends did not divorce for "reasons". Well that means by entering you actually choose that person over your original relation and is more important to you or you would not do that to your already existing relation. That is why I said she acts childish and egoistic with that choice and if she had been male that would have been the same whether in a polyamory relation or a single lover relation..

Like I said earlier, like what you like and don't like what you don't like. No issues with not liking the story or how it turned out. I personally preferred Mel's ending. I loathed Leah's ending and felt like THAT ending is the much more insulting of all of them. MC following her around like a puppy after she chose everything else over him. But, my point is that if a couple agrees to date other people and then proceed to date other people it is not cheating, it is not NTR, etc. That's my entire point. Especially when the rules of engagement are defined as "no one is more important than each other."

And as for my relationships, that one was one of my better ones until I met my wife. Everyone was friends, everyone had a good time. It didn't last forever, just like most relationships don't. Most people don't have one relationship and that's it. Trying to say that my open relationship, that you know nothing about, was a failure because it didn't last forever is sorry logic at best.

 

[DA22]

Like I said earlier, like what you like and don't like what you don't like. No issues with not liking the story or how it turned out. I personally preferred Mel's ending. I loathed Leah's ending and felt like THAT ending is the much more insulting of all of them. MC following her around like a puppy after she chose everything else over him. But, my point is that if a couple agrees to date other people and then proceed to date other people it is not cheating, it is not NTR, etc. That's my entire point. Especially when the rules of engagement are defined as "no one is more important than each other."

And as for my relationships, that one was one of my better ones until I met my wife. Everyone was friends, everyone had a good time. It didn't last forever, just like most relationships don't. Most people don't have one relationship and that's it. Trying to say that my open relationship, that you know nothing about, was a failure because it didn't last forever is sorry logic at best.

A, I never said it was NTR and do not think anyone else did, childish and egoistic yes.

B. Sure, I do not know all the ins and outs of your life, but well you did end up in a long term relation with someone else which in itself is telling. Second, you already say it, everyone was friends and so became emotional significant to each other and could easily mix all the time when there were pressures and help each other and be part of that instead of excluded and miss their partner in those times since other needs more attention and life has funny habit of doing things like that when both need support emotionally. Alice's other partner is not friends with MC or an integrated part of their life. A throuple, even if non-sexual can be even stronger as a one-on-one relationship, this is not an emotional throuple though but two separate relationships she has and then it only weakens it. (yeah you would be surprised how often people do have those emotional throuples, even if they are not romantic or sexual )

 

[tanstaafl]

A, I never said it was NTR and do not think anyone else did, childish and egoistic yes.

B. Sure, I do not know all the ins and outs of your life, but well you did end up in a long term relation with someone else which in itself is telling. Second, you already say it, everyone was friends and so became emotional significant to each other and could easily mix all the time when there were pressures and help each other and be part of that instead of excluded and miss their partner in those times since other needs more attention and life has funny habit of doing things like that when both need support emotionally. Alice's other partner is not friends with MC or an integrated part of their life. A throuple, even if non-sexual can be even stronger as a one-on-one relationship, this is not an emotional throuple though and then it only weakens it.

I've seen a few posts calling it NTR or a talking about others calling it NTR, wasn't trying to call you out on it personally. As for my open relationships, I never intended them to be permanent. This was the 90s, lol. I was way too busy doing the club kid scene and making an ass of myself to think about permanent relationships. The fact that this particular one lasted for over year was amazing in and of itself, not because it couldn't due to being open, but due to the lifestyle we all were leading. (Sad to say, drugs, raves, etc. Clean 22 years now btw).

Edit: I also agree that a throuple can be stronger than a couple depending on circumstances, but that requires quite a bit of trust and lack of insecurity.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I made a off handed comment about marrying off Hailey in the other's endings was a slap in the face from the writer and it was like ntr to me...

It was no reflection on the horrible Alice ending just two other of the horrible endings...

Sorry if I'm a little responsible for the current ntr talk. I'm still hurt over Hailey being changed like that.

I hope she finds her rightful place back in the harem ending because she belongs.

In all the endings the mc has been replaced as the person of importance by the LI. That is hard for a lot of us fans of the vn where the focus was mc centric to accept or like when it changes to LI centric in the endings...

 

[ghjjkkle]

Does anyone know what model the DEV uses for Karina

 

[Avaron1974]

I made a off handed comment about marrying off Hailey in the other's endings was a slap in the face from the writer and it was like ntr to me...

To play devil's advocate.

The MC was no longer seeing her in that ending, do you expect her to stay single and just dwell on what could have been before ultimately dying alone and depressed?

In all the endings the mc has been replaced as the person of importance by the LI. That is hard for a lot of us fans of the vn where the focus was mc centric to accept or like when it changes to LI centric in the endings...

Technically the girls were always the more important part of the story.

I'll elaborate.

If you take the girls away, the MC really has nothing, he brought nothing to the group except his penis.

However if you took away the MC....

Leah and Alice still had each other, they were a thing before the MC was in the picture. Leah would still have had her food blog and would have ended up with Alice rather than the MC.

Mel had the shop and sounded like she wasn't exactly lacking for choice of partner. The business would still have expanded and life would have moved her on.

Carina was a cheerleader and probably one of the popular girls, sooner or later she would have come out of her shell on her own and met someone.

Hailey would still have met someone eventually.

While she did enjoy it he was still just a fuck to Susan. He wasn't the only one either.

Point being, the girls were always the more important part. They didn't need him but he sure needed them. They still had things going on when he wasn't around, he didn't.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

To play devil's advocate.

The MC was no longer seeing her in that ending, do you expect her to stay single and just dwell on what could have been before ultimately dying alone and depressed?



Technically the girls were always the more important part of the story.

I'll elaborate.

If you take the girls away, the MC really has nothing, he brought nothing to the group except his penis.

However if you took away the MC....

Leah and Alice still had each other, they were a thing before the MC was in the picture. Leah would still have had her food blog and would have ended up with Alice rather than the MC.

Mel had the shop and sounded like she wasn't exactly lacking for choice of partner. The business would still have expanded and life would have moved her on.

Carina was a cheerleader and probably one of the popular girls, sooner or later she would have come out of her shell on her own and met someone.

Hailey would still have met someone eventually.

While she did enjoy it he was still just a fuck to Susan. He wasn't the only one either.

Point being, the girls were always the more important part. They didn't need him but he sure needed them. They still had things going on when he wasn't around, he didn't.

Since you asked I would rather Hailey be said to living well and happy. That would of been enough. Saying she married and was happy was Salt in the wound when she got got robbed of her own ending.

Again you asked my thoughts.

As for your points as the LIs being more important I can see where you would feel that way. Sadly the writer apparently feels that way too.

But me as the mc I'm forced to have my father who fucked my whole great times I was having and changed my life as suddenly my confidant.

Then all the ladies I've grown to love have changed or done way too much off screen "growing up" til they are not the women I fell for in the vn.

Except Niagara (I still recognized her) who sadly drew the straw of the drama laiden after school special tear jerky.

The vn was solidly written and so enjoyable! then I feel everything I loved about it got fucked for these artistic LI endings.

To me it's how to alienate and disappoint a majority of your vn's fans by horrible endings. I truly not trying to troll or be a "douchebag". I feel passionate because I care for these characters in the vn but not the ones In the endings...

 

[V.A. Laurie]

Since you asked I would rather Hailey be said to living well and happy. That would of been enough. Saying she married and was happy was Salt in the wound when she got got robbed of her own ending.

Again you asked my thoughts.

As for your points as the LIs being more important I can see where you would feel that way. Sadly the writer apparently feels that way too.

But me as the mc I'm forced to have my father who fucked my whole great times I was having and changed my life as suddenly my confidant.

Then all the ladies I've grown to love have changed or done way too much off screen "growing up" til they are not the women I fell for in the vn.

Except Niagara (I still recognized her) who sadly drew the straw of the drama laiden after school special tear jerky.

The vn was solidly written and so enjoyable! then I feel everything I loved about it got fucked for these artistic LI endings.

To me it's how to alienate and disappoint a majority of your vn's fans by horrible endings. I truly not trying to troll or be a "douchebag". I feel passionate because I care for these characters in the vn but not the ones In the endings...

this reply isn't douchey. you laid your thoughts out well, even if i don't agree with them entirely.

I felt like i had set up these characters during the 30ish chapters of the main story so that their endings all made sense and did the characters justice. Seeing you call them "artistic" endings still doesn't really make sense to me because I feel like as the endings to the stories, these are the natural stories to be told. I already explained how each of the characters had their endings teased or built up so I won't go into that, but I'll just say that I get confused seeing people say things like this because of the lead ups I had put into the game.

As Avaron1974 said, the girls really were always the focus. MC had been kept as blank a slate as possible so that all players could put themselves into the character's shoes. That's why the perversion/pacifism options were there with little impact overall. They were a means to let the player have MC act the way they would. The results were, by and large, always going to be the same.

 

[tanstaafl]

this reply isn't douchey. you laid your thoughts out well, even if i don't agree with them entirely.

I felt like i had set up these characters during the 30ish chapters of the main story so that their endings all made sense and did the characters justice. Seeing you call them "artistic" endings still doesn't really make sense to me because I feel like as the endings to the stories, these are the natural stories to be told. I already explained how each of the characters had their endings teased or built up so I won't go into that, but I'll just say that I get confused seeing people say things like this because of the lead ups I had put into the game.

The endings are the only place where the girls decisions are not driven by love of the MCs dick (or love of the MC if you prefer). The endings show these women as people, with lives and goals that are completely separate from the MC. Sure the story leading up to it mentioned these things, but primarily as obstacles to the MCs time or minor plot points to show how "supportive" the MC is. In the endings they become the driving plot points. The irony is that this is what becomes unpopular to many people on these forums. The mere thought that something can be more front and center in their lives than the MC is taboo.

 

[BTLD]

F95 Overview :
Freeloading Family is a adult 3D game about a man living alone with his step-sister while attending college. What events will unfold from the unusual living situation he finds himself in with a step-sister he barely knows? How will college life treat him? These question will not go unanswered.

Spoiler: patreon overview

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So...out of curiosity could you point out from these 2 overviews where it says the focus is on the girls and not MC? cause from my point of view it all points out towards the MC
All could have been avoided if dev would have implemented multiple protagonists...but since this is a story about a MaleMC it doesn't make sense to say that the focus was the girls....focus was the MC not the girls unfortunately

 

[V.A. Laurie]

Wow, the ignore function on f95 works wonders.

 

[Naxos]

Technically the girls were always the more important part of the story.

I'll elaborate.

If you take the girls away, the MC really has nothing, he brought nothing to the group except his penis.

However if you took away the MC....

That's absolute trollop and you know it.

Take the girls away and they would have just been replaced by other girls.

There is a reason he is the MC, which in case you forget is MAIN Character. If he brought nothing to the story that is a failing of the dev, thinking that only the girls need a decent story and the mc can be nothing more than a walking dildo. Which is kind of how he's shown and treated in the endings, which is what many are upset or disappointed in.

 

[Naxos]

As Avaron1974 said, the girls really were always the focus. MC had been kept as blank a slate as possible so that all players could put themselves into the character's shoes. That's why the perversion/pacifism options were there with little impact overall. They were a means to let the player have MC act the way they would. The results were, by and large, always going to be the same.

And this right there is why we are upset over the endings, especially for me the Alice one. You want me as the player to insert myself in the characters shoes, then take away the choice of having Alice to myself or not. I get it your mind it's all about the poly relationships and what not, but for a lot (see those who complained or where upset) it is not.

A simple choice for the player to let Alice and the mc to pursue happy open relationship, or stay purely loyal to each other, would have solved 90% of the negative feedback.

I truly believe there is a large disconnect between you as the author and the audience (I could be totally, wrong but it's what I believe) in that you've intended it one way and see it, especially with Alice's ending as being about poly relationship which you're trying to show. I recalled one of your comments saying and I paraphrase "it's an aspect of poly relationships not often shown in vn's and i wanted to show it". Where the audience see's the game primarily as a harem game, a harem game for the MC. I know that it what I see it as.

 

[Avaron1974]

Wow, the ignore function on f95 works wonders.

It is an amazing button. So simple yet so useful.

 

[V.A. Laurie]

I get it your mind it's all about the poly relationships and what not, but for a lot (see those who complained or where upset) it is not.

Ok but I've been writing a game about a poly relationship for four years. This shouldn't have come as a surprise. That's the thing I can't stand about what you're saying... This isn't a sudden choice on my part, and it has been an integral part of the story the entire time. And when people say things to me along these lines, it feels like you're saying "you should have written this the way I wanted, because I am the player that matters most."

I'll just say that as vocal as you, and some others, have been, you aren't everyone. We have hundreds of patrons who support us, even still. I get private messages and see discussions on some discord servers about how people enjoyed the ending.

F95 is a big name in this industry, but at the end of the day it's a forum, and forums very often are filled with people who want to express displeasure with something. That's a thing that people note often in creative spaces: people will be more vocal about the things they dislike. Far fewer people will come to comment "that was good" than will to say "I disliked this."

I appreciate that you've put your feelings into better terms so it doesn't feel trolly, but I do want to continue to defend my work.

But I also hear you. A simple choice could have solved the problem here. Maybe that was an oversight, but either way, I think that the chapter is a good one.

 

[Avaron1974]

I get it your mind it's all about the poly relationships and what not, but for a lot (see those who complained or where upset) it is not.

I truly believe there is a large disconnect between you as the author and the audience

There is a disconnect it seems.

It looks like some of you haven't payed any attention to the game at all.

You played an entire game based around a poly relationship and then suddenly expected something entirely different at the end especially from a girl that's shown interest in other girls before she even started seeing the MC.

It's almost like you ignored everything that happened before the ending.

Like someone mentioned earlier about Alice being the most important person to the MC but the MC not being that for Alice and it's true. Leah was just as important to Alice as the MC was, she would have kept that relationship going had their lives not gone in different directions and at the end it broke her heart they had split up.

Then we have Alice and her pursuit of Carina, trying to corrupt her into swinging both ways. She went as far as ignoring the MC and carried on that pursuit against his advice.

Add on Alice watching the Mc with Hailey and getting off on it plus her constant invitations to Mel.

Alice wanted other women involved from the very start, before anything happened with the MC and carried that on long after they got together.

To expect her to suddenly change and go solo is to ignore the entire game and everything she did before that point.

This isn't like WVM where the girls do nothing unless the MC is involved, they carried on off screen with Leah and Alice having a full blown relationship just like she had with the MC. They fucked a lot.

 

[Naxos]

I'll try make this the last post on the matter.

Ok but I've been writing a game about a poly relationship for four years. This shouldn't have come as a surprise. That's the thing I can't stand about what you're saying...

I think this is symptom of the episodic release of games. As a dev you've been working on it (daily) for years and have a good idea of what's happening and what the core story is and what you want to convey which is all good. Players start at some point and go many months between touching it and don't have that constant idea of the game in their mind, mixed in with the 20,30,50, 100 other vn's played the story becomes skewed in the players mind, or bit's forgotten.

Personally if I restarted I might pick up that idea of the polly focus, but I don't remember it that way. Even Alice, I don't remember being involved with anyone else besides Leah, and frankly (and my fail on this) I dismissed her relationship with Leah as the typical bi-sexual girl in harem trope that is in every other harem novel which I said is what I saw this as.

And when people say things to me along these lines, it feels like you're saying "you should have written this the way I wanted, because I am the player that matters most."

I certainly don't think of myself like that at all and if that's how I come across it's a failing on my part and I'm sorry. Of course, I'd love it if was written the way i'd like it and anyone who says otherwise is a liar, but I don't expect or demand it.

And you're 100% right about more complaining than saying they like it, it's human nature. I seems it's always easier to find fault than find positives.

Avaron1974 A lot of what you mention about Alice I don't recall at all. Granted the pre-ending stuff was last played at least a year ago, but I seem to recall things between her and Leah quietened down a lot after they got involved with the MC. Her thing with Mel was never more than teasing, because Mel was very strictly dickie (V.A. Laurie that is one thing I really loved about the game) .

It's funny how you're pefectly happy for him to go solo and ignore the entire game and everything he did before that point for Alice, but for her to do the same is too much. I know V.A Laurie has said they're not solo, but I reiterate the breaking up the endings by girl implies they are solo and therefore it should have been a solo Alice+Mc ending, or at very least given that option.

That said, we're not going agree on the ending so may as well agree to disagree.

 

[NoxLaw]

This is a pointless discussion at this point. The ending won't change anyway and the writer is so full of himself that he won't even consider that he might be the one at fault for this shit show and not the players.

 

[Avaron1974]

This is a pointless discussion at this point. The ending won't change anyway and the writer is so full of himself that he won't even consider that he might be the one at fault for this shit show and not the players.

So, to clarify, the writer has the character behave one way throughout the entire game, a character none of you complained about at the time, yet because the ending didn't match what you thought but was still in line with how that character behaved THE ENTIRE GAME that writer is now full of himself?

 

[FlipFish]

So, to clarify, the writer has the character behave one way throughout the entire game, a character none of you complained about at the time, yet because the ending didn't match what you thought but was still in line with how that character behaved THE ENTIRE GAME that writer is now full of himself?

At no point in the game does Alice's behavior indicate that the MC would end up in some weird one sided poly relationship with her and her girlfriend. If this was the writer's intention then they would've shown or at the very least hinted that pursuing Alice to the end wouldn't result in a classic happy ending between her and the MC and there would be a third party involved. A badly written ending that is telegraphed beforehand is more digestible and understandable than one that just pops up at the end while the writer tries to claim it was their intention all along.

If you're going to go with the argument that for Alice her top priority was always Leah then I honestly think it would be better if she didn't have an ending with the MC at all and just ends up with Leah regardless. MC would have to realize that Alice preferred Leah over him and move on. But because of her ending Alice just looks like a selfish cunt trying to have her cake and eat it too and that "relationship" is a disaster waiting to happen because the dynamic between the three is so unbalanced.