VN Ren'Py Completed Freeloading Family [v0.32] [FFCreations]

[FFCreations]

I would like to react on the linear/non-linear story. I guessed that non-linear meant sandbox, so it's a big NO. But it would be nice to have some branching greatly impacting the story, unlike in FF where choices was mostly "cosmetic"

Your guess is correct. As for the branching, obviously the more branches we add the less content each branch can have. So it's more of a problem in terms of making the content feel meaningful. But we will definitely try and include some non-"cosmetic" branches and balance it nicely with content.

Will his new game have animations?

Maybe some. But the problem is that I'd rather have 20-30 unique images as opposed to one small 1-2 second looping animation. There's a trade-off, making animation takes extremely long time. So if we include animation then I will have to cut a severe amount of images an update can have. I'll keep it in consideration though. So it's not off the table.

Serious question, will the game still have the same writer as this one?

No. Val (FF's writer) was supposed to leave once FF was completed. So he will not be the writer for the next game. Which of course means that the next game will not have the same writing as FF. Some may consider that a blessing and others a curse. But I hope it's at least given a chance.

 

[sidsan]

will there be Susan ending?

 

[Tarrang]

will there be Susan ending?

There might not be any more endings given the circumstances.

 

[Arthoneceron]

will there be Susan ending?

If the last update where Susan appeared is some kind of evidence, I suppose that the Susan's ending is the breakup one, since having sex with her gives -1 point with all the other girls.

 

[Arthoneceron]

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Next Game Poll #2
And here we have our next poll. Most of these questions are based on the results of the previous poll and is meant to further expand on them. And I have included a bit more new things that you can vote on whether or not to include.
More polls will most likely come in the future, so keep an eye out here on Patreon and/or Discord.
As before, if you have anything you want me to include then simply mention it in the comments or tell me directly through Discord either on our server or in the DMs.
Link to poll:

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[Tarrang]

Depending on how much there is supernatural, I probably won't want to play. Given play over wanted play even more.

 

[riverrungames]

TLDR: What we're currently looking at seems to be a linear story set in modern time, following a male main character in a first person perspective. It's reasonably balanced between realistic and unrealistic, favoring realism slightly more. A school setting will be part of the story with some family love at home. The game will feature a supernatural/superpower twist. And it will have a reasonable amount of male domination.

And this is why devs shouldn't listen to their fanbase, the premise sounds like a generic Japanese anime or a superhero origin story. Have people suggest fetishes they want to see, and nothing else. Trying to add in every popular and fashionable genre into the game will be a huge detriment to the story and character development.

 

[Settum]

And this is why devs shouldn't listen to their fanbase, the premise sounds like a generic Japanese anime or a superhero origin story. Have people suggest fetishes they want to see, and nothing else. Trying to add in every popular and fashionable genre into the game will be a huge detriment to the story and character development.

Well, depends. As much as I was disappointed (not really, more like... had tiny kindling of hope) the game is not going to be a female on female semi-linear romance dealing with male domination (Truthfully, the combo sounds hard to execute well, I just picked unusual choice combos)... as long as the story, renders and choices are done properly, I won't mind giving it a go.

Since Incest, School and Female on Female won, now that the second pool choices are out, I am personally hoping for a DilF - like game similar to Single Again, but possibly dealing more with the protagonist's strict first person perspective and choices involving his two daughters who are in secretly in love with each other, but most of the sex would involve their friends who come over from school, possibly their parents too, with a possible path leading to bondage dominating and corrupting the two?...
if he made the daughters red-head twins, there's a nice Palmer reference (may her rest in peace) right there too.
Hell, as people are pointing out the supernatural/hero, I don't think there's more than 3 powerpuff parodies... though, if a ghost or an unseen supernatural element would be prevalent in the story, I wouldn't mind... especially if said element would make the player wonder if it's real or just a feeling/imagination.

But... regardless of personal feelings about the matter, I feel you when games become generic copies of one another, as this community is cluttered with them. But every now and then there's a game with great story, or that is able to convey it in a great manner. What FFc needs is a writer passionate about such project with some skills but also the ability to accomodate both their boss' and the patreons/future players' demands.

Also, apologize if this rant/post seems like it's directed at you, riverrungames; in reality I just made a small reply and used it to vent some opinions I have about the polls at the same time, so don't take it personally.

 

[Uriel ☁]

I will watch this experiment with much curiosity but I cannot help but think the result will be the same as asking people "what will our next pizza be like?".

Tomato? Sure.
Ham? Yeah.
Sausage? Hell yeah!
Pineapple? Ewww.
Tuna? Gimme...

The result would be a generic bunch of everything that might even contrast with each other.

Also the age of the MC is a deciding factor for most questions there. I like young MCs and coming-of-age stories, so for a young MC it makes sense for the school life to be in foreground. For an older MC instead a school settings means corruption in most cases and I tend to avoid those (not my cup of tea).

 

[Arthoneceron]

And this is why devs shouldn't listen to their fanbase, the premise sounds like a generic Japanese anime or a superhero origin story. Have people suggest fetishes they want to see, and nothing else. Trying to add in every popular and fashionable genre into the game will be a huge detriment to the story and character development.

FFC mentioned before that he's ultimately gathering the interests over a new game, not actually summarizing them and adding one by one. He only mentioned that he wants something different from Freeloading Family.

 

[dolfe67]

FFC mentioned before that he's ultimately gathering the interests over a new game, not actually summarizing them and adding one by one. He only mentioned that he wants something different from Freeloading Family.

The first poll is close to the same thing as this game, minus the supernatural...

 

[Settum]

Indeed. Hence my quip about an older MC and having the school as a background. Though, Octavianus did mention his personal dislike for corruption games, there are games out there that do not follow that route, some even have the daughters corrupt the father, for example (I believe incest was strong suggestion in the polls). You can also have a sweet love story or do something another game or 50 others have done, but right.
After all, the creator is doing a business, as small as it might be, not an off-time project they are releasing for free everywhere and having patreons just support with the small expenses. As such, market research is necessary and smart, besides showing how they care about attracting customers/patrons and listening to the fanbase's opinion... by showing the result of the poll should be indicative of a creator that listens, though reality is often twisted... big reason why no big company ever publishes their market research, satisfaction polls, etc. People tend to be dissatisfied the more control and information you give them.

 

[riverrungames]

FFC mentioned before that he's ultimately gathering the interests over a new game, not actually summarizing them and adding one by one. He only mentioned that he wants something different from Freeloading Family.

I never said FFC was systematically adding the genres one by one, it's just harder to step out of those genre choices now that they've polled people and gathered reliable data. The summary of the results is a fairly representative overview as to the direction of the new project, where it's likely headed.

Trial balloons are a common practice when it comes to promotion and marketing, where developers gauge the interests of the player base and find out their likes and dislikes by "ballooning", or introducing potential ideas and observing how people react. The problem with catering to the audience's wants is that this process is disconnected from developing the story and characters. Farming out suggestions and creating a game by audience participation through a committee of wants is not going to work out in the way the dev expects it to work; it'll lead to a mishmash of disparate ideas which isn't developed through an organic process, and often leads to conflicting interpretations on what people actually want.

Incest? Of course.
Modern day school setting? Yes.
Female on female sex focused on male domination? Yes.
Harem? Blackmail? Pregnancy? Corruption? Most likely.
Fantastical supernatural elements with superpowers? Possibly.
Anything else? Probably not.

The result: Generic plug-in, play by the numbers premise which doesn't cohere into a singular vision and lacks any possibilities for the story to go anywhere interesting. The developer should decide what they want to do and how to execute their vision in the best way without caring so much what the audience might think, at least that's what I'm hoping FFC will do, but it's hard to do given the insight they have into their market base. If he wants to do something completely different to Freeloading Family, then he should do better than to ask his fanbase who wants Freeloading Family 2.0.

 

[FFCreations]

I never said FFC was systematically adding the genres one by one, it's just harder to step out of those genre choices now that they've polled people and gathered reliable data. The summary of the results is a fairly representative overview as to the direction of the new project, where it's likely headed.

Trial balloons are a common practice when it comes to promotion and marketing, where developers gauge the interests of the player base and find out their likes and dislikes by "ballooning", or introducing potential ideas and observing how people react. The problem with catering to the audience's wants is that this process is disconnected from developing the story and characters. Farming out suggestions and creating a game by audience participation through a committee of wants is not going to work out in the way the dev expects it to work; it'll lead to a mishmash of disparate ideas which isn't developed through an organic process, and often leads to conflicting interpretations on what people actually want.

Incest? Of course.
Modern day school setting? Yes.
Female on female sex focused on male domination? Yes.
Harem? Blackmail? Pregnancy? Corruption? Most likely.
Fantastical supernatural elements with superpowers? Possibly.
Anything else? Probably not.

The result: Generic plug-in, play by the numbers premise which doesn't cohere into a singular vision and lacks any possibilities for the story to go anywhere interesting. The developer should decide what they want to do and how to execute their vision in the best way without caring so much what the audience might think, at least that's what I'm hoping FFC will do, but it's hard to do given the insight they have into their market base. If he wants to do something completely different to Freeloading Family, then he should do better than to ask his fanbase who wants Freeloading Family 2.0.

I've mentioned it before but I can say it again. This is merely meant to gauge what people want/don't want. Something being top voted on in the polls doesn't mean it'll be included in the game if it doesn't fit. Things will be added/discarded based on what actually works. For instance, I'll easily discard both incest and school setting if I feel that it would clash with the vision for the game. Even though those two are top voted ones. I guess you could say it's more to make sure that the new game isn't a game that no one wants as opposed to being a game that everyone wants. Because it's obvious that it's not gonna be a game that everyone wants. It's not gonna be just a potluck of ideas thrown together into a Frankenstein's monster of a game.

 

[riverrungames]

I've mentioned it before but I can say it again. This is merely meant to gauge what people want/don't want. Something being top voted on in the polls doesn't mean it'll be included in the game if it doesn't fit. Things will be added/discarded based on what actually works. For instance, I'll easily discard both incest and school setting if I feel that it would clash with the vision for the game. Even though those two are top voted ones. I guess you could say it's more to make sure that the new game isn't a game that no one wants as opposed to being a game that everyone wants. Because it's obvious that it's not gonna be a game that everyone wants. It's not gonna be just a potluck of ideas thrown together into a Frankenstein's monster of a game.

That's perfectly fine. I was just never a fan of the idea of the developer being impeded by the audience in any way, and being constrained by the arbitrary whims of the money market. I was in the group of people that liked what you and V. A. Laurie did for Freeloading Family, and how the endings were followed through. It was risky, new, and inventive. I'd love to see you continue to go down this route of doing interesting things, and following your imagination even if it means disappointing some people along the way.

Lastly, here's a funny video to demonstrate how other creatives approached a similar situation:

 

[Uriel ☁]

This polls reminded me of a few years ago when a dev asked his patrons to pick the hair color of a new character. His game was mainly focused on a ginger family and, to the surprise of none, red won.

Keep in mind that whoever answered those polls is already invested in FF enough to either be a patron or follow the game's development. Especially take with a grain of salt the answers about content already present in FF (like school settings, first person). I'm not saying they're wrong, just kinda skewed by the target audience.

 

[FFCreations]

That's perfectly fine. I was just never a fan of the idea of the developer being impeded by the audience in any way, and being constrained by the arbitrary whims of the money market. I was in the group of people that liked what you and V. A. Laurie did for Freeloading Family, and how the endings were followed through. It was risky, new, and inventive. I'd love to see you continue to go down this route of doing interesting things, and following your imagination even if it means disappointing some people along the way.

Lastly, here's a funny video to demonstrate how other creatives approached a similar situation:

Well there always must be a balance in this situation. Because at the end of the day, I'm only able to do these games because of the people that support it through Patreon. And to make a game that no one currently supporting it wants is pretty detrimental. For instance you mentioned the endings for FF that they were risky, new and inventive. But if for instance people disliked the ending so much that everyone just stopped pledging altogether. We wouldn't even be able to continue making those risky, new and inventive stuff because we would have no one funding it. And that's where the balance comes in. Making something people, especially those supporting the development, wants. But also being able to be flexible and creative with the vision without being impeded by what they want.

It's more about understanding what people want and keeping it in mind as opposed to just doing what they want no questions asked.

Like I mentioned prior, it's not going to be just blindly following what everyone wants like "Oh you want it to be grounded, sure. Oh you want it to contain incest, let's go." (and so on and so forth). But it also helps with understanding that maybe we shouldn't do a game called "Welcome to the tentacle male-only gay sex island".

The questions in the polls are really broad/vague stuff. In the end, there is a lot of flexibility in how or even if we implement it into a story. I mean just take a look at FF's tags. If you knew nothing about FF, then the tag it has doesn't exactly make it stand out at all. In fact, it make it seem pretty damn generic. It's all about execution. And that's an area people won't be able to influence. That would be all me and the writer.

 

[Tarrang]

"Tentacle male-only gay sex island" would definitely be a niche.

 

[Settum]

"Welcome to the tentacle male-only gay sex island".

Well... there is a concept in business called... diversification. You'd certainly get a lot of brand new patreons... though, mind you, only if you really wanna do a game like that. In which case I would wanna caution to put new patreon tiers so the two types of patreons don't see the content they hate to see, by keeping tiers separate.

I did chuckle at that title drop.

 

[FFCreations]

FFCreations I like this game personally but found it has been underachieving in terms of patrons. I wonder if you are willing to do something for that. For example, you can publish your game assets for fan arts. That kind of activities did positive effects for certain games these days.

Have tried a variety of things with little to no success. Posting general art never really led to an increase in patrons. Having commissions never really led to an increase in patrons. Selling merch wasn't really popular. So sadly, only thing to do is to simply keep working on the game.

As for publishing game assets for fan arts. Then that's illegal and Daz can hit you really hard for that. Since even if you've purchased and modified their assets, you aren't allowed to re-distribute it.