VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch.10 v0.71] [NeonGhosts]

[Silwith]

Ashe would never even give MC a second look without the money. She most likely gets tons of attention otherwise, she doesn't need a poor overworked middle aged guy.

Which would actually be kinda ironic for me... because she is very much at the low end in terms of looks of the LIs, personally I think she is actually punching up with Guy She feels like the definition of average looking...

 

[Joshy92]

Oh hey, this speaks to a revelation I had early on in the whole dev process. For a while, I was really struggling to make the story compelling, while basically making Guy a cipher. And it didn't take me too long to realize that just wouldn't work for me. Sometime around Chapter 4, I decided to switch tacks and approach Guy less like a blank slate, and more like a character we just happen to steer. It's the difference between playing Fido in GTA3, versus Tommy Vercetti in GTA: Vice City. The former is an entirely blank slate that the player can project themselves onto, while the latter is a multidimensional character that has his own wants, needs, etc.

These days, I try to split the difference a bit by having Guy be his own character, but staying out of his head a bit, so the player can interpret his words and actions how they want.

I honestly think that the trend of blank, faceless 'John Smith' protagonists, is part of why I soured on the western AVN genre a bit. It's a game format that's almost entirely driven by dialogue. So, when you have a hero who really has no personality, the dialogue will always fall a bit flat. In a format like an RPG or even a sandbox game, I think you can get away with that kind of hero, because most of the gameplay is spent doing other things - fighting, exploring, etc. And in the case of an RPG, you usually have party members/NPCs that carry the bulk of the story/dialogue on their backs, and the player only occasionally interjects with a broad morality-by-dialogue check.

"Oh no, they're slaughtering the villagers!"

• "This won't stand! To arms!"
• "It's unfortunate, but it's not our fight."
• "We'll save them, but I expect a reward."
• "Great, let's wait for them to finish fighting and kill whoever's left!"

I sometimes wonder if this is why a game like Bad Bobby has endured and had several remakes, despite being kind of crude in its execution (by today's standards). In a genre defined by bland, faceless heroes, Bobby is an extremely memorable character.

I agree in an AVN but I absolutely hated the witcher 3 because of how predefined the mc was.

 

[HiP1]

I think it's far more than you should reasonably expect or ask for ... which is why I'm extra nice and extra careful with Nicki.

forgot to add "ideal" in that sentence
though Nicki did date and fuck MC's nemesis for no good reason, and she did leave MC when he confessed to her and only came back when/because she needed him.
most of what she does is because she feels she owes him everything and can't forgive herself yet. that has to be addressed sooner rather than later because it creates a huge unbalanced relationship, especially if you add the fact that she tends to devotes herself to her boyfriend even if he doesn't deserve it.

Which would actually be kinda ironic for me... because she is very much at the low end in terms of looks of the LIs, personally I think she is actually punching up with Guy She feels like the definition of average looking...

it's just a matter of taste on the 3D model used to represent her. but in the story, she is supposed to be beautiful and hot, that's part of her character's traits to build on her traumas and past. without that, her story doesn't work

 

[Silwith]

I agree in an AVN but I absolutely hated the witcher 3 because of how predefined the mc was.

I often see myself agreeing with you, but seeing this I am doubting myself, the sacrilege! Heretical behaviour :O :O :O !!!
I am flabbergasted!

 

[Joshy92]

I often see myself agreeing with you, but seeing this I am doubting myself, the sacrilege! Heretical behaviour :O :O :O !!!
I am flabbergasted!

I just prefer to self-insert no matter which game I play including avns so it's hard the more info I get about the mc.

I've dropped a lot of games because of that.

 

[TrixRabbit]

forgot to add "ideal" in that sentence
though Nicki did date and fuck MC's nemesis for no good reason, and she did leave MC when he confessed to her and only came back when/because she needed him.
most of what she does is because she feels she owes him everything and can't forgive herself yet. that has to be addressed sooner rather than later because it creates a huge unbalanced relationship, especially if you add the fact that she tends to devotes herself to her boyfriend even if he doesn't deserve it.

True, although that's not the entire story. She dated Brent because he asked - not as a way to hurt Guy, and she didn't stay away because she didn't want to see him - but because she was embarrassed and after losing everything else didn't want things to go south with him too. Her issues will obviously have to be addressed but that seems more like a years of therapy thing than just a long talk over dinner thing. But from MC's perspective at least he knows that she's not there just because of the money - since they were close before - and he can't be 100% sure with the others (especially since he hasn't known any of them long).

I've never been wealthy but if I was I've always thought you should get the things you wanted when you were poor, but be wary of things you didn't want until you were rich.

 

[HiP1]

True, although that's not the entire story. She dated Brent because he asked - not as a way to hurt Guy, and she didn't stay away because she didn't want to see him - but because she was embarrassed and after losing everything else didn't want things to go south with him too. Her issues will obviously have to be addressed but that seems more like a years of therapy thing than just a long talk over dinner thing. But from MC's perspective at least he knows that she's not there just because of the money - since they were close before - and he can't be 100% sure with the others (especially since he hasn't known any of them long).

I've never been wealthy but if I was I've always thought you should get the things you wanted when you were poor, but be wary of things you didn't want until you were rich.

Brent asked, yeah, but tons of other guys asked too. so why Brent in particular ? the one guy MC hated the most, and that picked on MC constantly... there were other guys, decent guys even, guys that shared her interests for sure, MC is not the only nerd. and she stayed with him despite all his BS. her dating brent is just a plot device, at this point.

Dude, she ghosted MC for three months. you can be embarrassed and even awkward about some stuff with your friend, but MC was her best friend, and she began to realize her own feelings too. and the excuse of losing her phone can't work, she got another phone, and she knew where MC lived. even if she didn't want a handout to solve her problems, going to see him and talk about what is happening to her, and about the confession, is the least she can do.
She wanted to fix her problems herself, sure. but she could fix them while still being in contact.
if you ghost your best friend overnight just after they confessed, you send a very clear and devastating message. she is supposed to be a character that cares about the others before herself, with a good amount of empathy, but in the one instance where it mattered and with the one that should have mattered most, she couldn't call upon her inner traits and qualities ?

Just to be clear, I like Nicki, and her character and story. but there are still plot holes that need addressing. and she needs another boost in growth.
She is the only character that MC can really be sure of, 100%, like you said. though she have limits too as we can find out in her dark path.

When you reach new thresholds of wealth, you open your mind to new "wants" as before you didn't allow yourself to consider them without the means. it's like when you're dirt poor, you focus only on survival, food and essential items. but when you get decent incomes, entertainment comes into the picture.

 

[TrixRabbit]

Brent asked, yeah, but tons of other guys asked too. so why Brent in particular ? the one guy MC hated the most, and that picked on MC constantly... there were other guys, decent guys even, guys that shared her interests for sure, MC is not the only nerd. and she stayed with him despite all his BS. her dating brent is just a plot device, at this point.

Dude, she ghosted MC for three months. you can be embarrassed and even awkward about some stuff with your friend, but MC was her best friend, and she began to realize her own feelings too. and the excuse of losing her phone can't work, she got another phone, and she knew where MC lived. even if she didn't want a handout to solve her problems, going to see him and talk about what is happening to her, and about the confession, is the least she can do.
She wanted to fix her problems herself, sure. but she could fix them while still being in contact.
if you ghost your best friend overnight just after they confessed, you send a very clear and devastating message. she is supposed to be a character that cares about the others before herself, with a good amount of empathy, but in the one instance where it mattered and with the one that should have mattered most, she couldn't call upon her inner traits and qualities ?

Just to be clear, I like Nicki, and her character and story. but there are still plot holes that need addressing. and she needs another boost in growth.
She is the only character that MC can really be sure of, 100%, like you said. though she have limits too as we can find out in her dark path.

When you reach new thresholds of wealth, you open your mind to new "wants" as before you didn't allow yourself to consider them without the means. it's like when you're dirt poor, you focus only on survival, food and essential items. but when you get decent incomes, entertainment comes into the picture.

Yeah but that's kindof what I mean about wealth. It's a dangerous road and almost an addiction. I've seen people start off poor and then they get to sort of the middle ground, and they buy a house and a decent car and upgrade their grocery shopping a bit - all good. And then they get some more, and start thinking of other things they could have. The problem is that every step up the ladder they go they find more and more things they want - boats and country club memberships and bigger houses and more cars and ... stuff until they are making 2-300k but are still basically living paycheck to paycheck because they keep finding more stuff that they need. Something like 70% of 7 figure lottery winners are broke within 5 years. ... I've always thought that if I suddenly because wealthy that I'd do what Guy is doing (the nice version). Pay off all debt, buy a nice house - not lavish but a good average sized, well built home, with solid, well built furniture - then take care of family and then help people, professionally (not exploit them, just help).

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

I like the balance struck here as a good hybrid. There are rails to experience and also the freedom to build how the character is shaped (exploitative, nice, romantic, etc.) over the duration of the game.

Perfectly said!

And I thank you for that.
I like main characters with their own name and behaviour, that I just happen to influence and interact with some stuff.
I never self inserted in any of this games, I enjoy then just like I enjoy a movie or such.
I've always hated those JRPGs that the protagonist is silent and have little to no personality (one of my biggest complaints about Persona 5, for example).
Even worse when they use a headless/faceless protagonist on those adult games for the players to imagine is themselves. I fucking hate that. Hahaha

Haha, I actually love that kind of design

To be perfectly honest, I love self-inserts, I like it when they don't show the protagonist's head/face so I can imagine whoever I want (in my case, ME ), I like the mostly blank-slate approach, I like POV images, and so on. However, after playing a decent number of VNs and then finally discovering this one, it's occurred to me how those qualities I seek in a game are possibly at least part of the reason why the stories and characters end up so much weaker.

I could be wrong, but I think the kinds of authors that try to do self-insert blank-slate VNs probably don't really care so much about the story, and care more about giving the player (or themself) a fantasy to live vicariously through. Which is fine, and I think it's possible to do correctly, but so, so, so many of them just are utter dog doodoo. With games like FiN, I feel like the author's perspective itself, on what's important in a VN, namely the story and its characters, plays a large role in shaping its quality.

Also, dialogue and subtlety is by far the biggest hurdle for most authors on this site it seems, and there's just too many that don't quite get it; whether being clunky and awkward, too cliche, too on-the-nose, over-preferencing the player's fantasy of what they want the LI to say or desire rather than servicing the LI speaking and what they should realistically be thinking or saying in this moment (with respect that it's still an erotic VN at the end of the day, of course), or just downright cringe. I'm so glad Neon has a good idea of how people actually think and talk and interact lol

I think Gabby's alleyway scene in the latest chapter is a great example of this; it was an awesome start to what her and Guy's corrupted/dark relationship could become. Most other games play into the "she secretly loves it" trope way too fast and easy. I think it's not entirely implausible that sort of dynamic could develop in a messed up kind of way, but it needs great care; like, what is Gabby thinking in some of those moments? Is it purely her body reacting in opposition to her actual feelings? Does she feel guilty about it? Will that lend to confusion and eventual acceptance in the end? Are these mixed feelings actually exhilirating in some way to her? Is it purely the human tendency to seek relief or pleasure, in any form really, in a new fucked up normal? Any and all of that could work and I think the complexities are communicated well in the story without coming off as stupid and simple as other VNs would execute.

For what it's worth, I tried yet again not to write another wall, but fuck it, it must be integral to my personality.

 

[HiP1]

Yeah but that's kindof what I mean about wealth. It's a dangerous road and almost an addiction. I've seen people start off poor and then they get to sort of the middle ground, and they buy a house and a decent car and upgrade their grocery shopping a bit - all good. And then they get some more, and start thinking of other things they could have. The problem is that every step up the ladder they go they find more and more things they want - boats and country club memberships and bigger houses and more cars and ... stuff until they are making 2-300k but are still basically living paycheck to paycheck because they keep finding more stuff that they need. Something like 70% of 7 figure lottery winners are broke within 5 years. ... I've always thought that if I suddenly because wealthy that I'd do what Guy is doing (the nice version). Pay off all debt, buy a nice house - not lavish but a good average sized, well built home, with solid, well built furniture - then take care of family and then help people, professionally (not exploit them, just help).

I get what you mean. It's mostly about knowing when you are actually happy with what you have at the moment, and not trying to seek more that won't bring any happiness. balancing happiness and burden/chores is tough for most people. Especially in the era of social media.
MC is mostly immune to social media influence until now, except to take care of his public image. staying away was the right decision for him, given his anger management issues

I think Gabby's alleyway scene in the latest chapter is a great example of this; it was an awesome start to what her and Guy's corrupted/dark relationship could become. Most other games play into the "she secretly loves it" trope way too fast and easy. I think it's not entirely implausible that sort of dynamic could develop in a messed up kind of way, but it needs great care; like, what is Gabby thinking in some of those moments? Is it purely her body reacting in opposition to her actual feelings? Does she feel guilty about it? Will that lend to confusion and eventual acceptance in the end? Are these mixed feelings actually exhilirating in some way to her? Is it purely the human tendency to seek relief or pleasure, in any form really, in a new fucked up normal? Any and all of that could work and I think the complexities are communicated well in the story without coming off as stupid and simple as other VNs would execute.

we also got a good glimpse of that in Ashe's date in the corruption path. you can see her change her mind over the course of the date, finally letting go and accepting it at the end. it's a little too fast, but the process is interesting to read and watch happen

 

[cooldevo]

I think that is a overestimation, would it be "too much" for many women? Yeah. For the majority of women even? Probably, but 99.9%? Nah man, I kinda doubt that. I mean, there is no rule that it has to go in balls deep in the first place and to get to the point you are either kinda dating, then she wont just up and leave just because the dick is too big or you organized a hookup, then she probably already knows what size you are.

(Also, a dick like a baseballbat gets you laid a lot nowadays thanks to hookup apps xP Enough size queens out there that jump on the opportunity, but yeah, the chance it works with a random girl at a bar is pretty low xD)

Late reply to this one, but I'd cautiously disagree. In some games, if you look at the renders and the MC puts it up against the girl it literally reaches to near the heart or sternum. One thrust to the hilt from from that would literally punch right through the reproductive system, and rearrange the intestines, diaphragm, stomach, and maybe even hit the lungs. I can't imagine in any world that would be pleasurable. But with no basis of comparison, I can just speculate.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Here’s a little peek at the opening of Chapter 11!

 

[cooldevo]

View attachment 4328169
Here’s a little peek at the opening of Chapter 11!

There's two ways the previous Chapter ended at the police station, both start the same way but are flavored differently?

 

[Joshy92]

View attachment 4328169
Here’s a little peek at the opening of Chapter 11!

Oh, I have to make a conversation out of this render.

Cassie - I found your porn collection Joshy how much fucking tentacle hentai do you need you pervert.
Me - But Cass sometimes I get horny.
Cassie - Save it you creep I can't even look at you right now.
Me - Come on sweetie lets go have some fun and cool off with some sexy roleplay in bed I'll be a tentacle monster, and you can be a Japanese school girl.

 

[soprano31]

View attachment 4328169
Here’s a little peek at the opening of Chapter 11!

A beautiful Cold war negotiation scene !!
Who is going to break the ice and start talking to the other and making peace with each other ?

The normally most adult,but who sulks and angry sits there like a toddler whose toy has been taken away,
or the much younger sis,whose eyes almost come to tears from sadness,regret and loss for him,
and who really thinks,trembling about taking the first step ?

 

[Jarulf]

Sis really is kinda hot, I think maybe I should a put a collar on her and lead her away from here.

 

[Joshy92]

Sis really is kinda hot, I think maybe I should a put a collar on her and lead her away from here.

Sorry buddy but I saw her first. You can have Gabby or Madison.

 

[Jarulf]

LOL, I thought you were into sharing and stuff?

 

[NeonGhosts]

There's two ways the previous Chapter ended at the police station, both start the same way but are flavored differently?

Yup! Modest spoilers, but it opens with Cassie AND Guy in trouble, or just Cassie, while Guy waits for his lawyer to show up.

 

[Joshy92]

LOL, I thought you were into sharing and stuff?

Yeah, in those games that it's built around dude. In here I don't even know if I want a threesome with Nicki and Mason lol