ename144

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Thats a bit of a contraditon right there.

I am willing to concede the MC could in theory fritter it away frivolous toys... but come on New Scams?.
To fall for any scam requires a willingness by the MC to take risk's.
And in you own words the MC is now risk averse.
You can't have it both ways either he's risk averse or he's not.
Just Sayin.
There are scams that don't rely on pressuring the mark to do something risky. As a less than random example, we know for a fact the MC hired a lawyer; how exactly did he vet her?

If the MC's letting her handle his legal affairs, he's obviously taking some level of risk that she isn't going to con him. Seeing him struggle with that decision could have been a nice way to show the MC starting to grow his much needed backbone. Instead we just skip over the crucial moment and imply the MC is still incapable of decision making, he just somehow lucked into the right drill sergeant.
 
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LWtbo

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There are scams that don't rely on pressuring the mark to do something risky. As a less than random example, we know for a fact the MC hired a lawyer; how exactly did he vet her?

If the MC's letting her handle his legal affairs, he's obviously taking some level of risk that she isn't going to con him. Seeing him struggle with that decision could have been a nice way to show the MC starting to grow his much needed backbone. Instead we just skip over the crucial moment and imply the MC is still incapable of decision making, he just somehow lucked into the right drill sergeant.
Nice try but you just proved my point either he's risk averse or he's not.
If he's Risk averse it just means he will do what he can to minimizes any risk in anything he do's
Not that he avoids any risk at all... thats practically impossible best case he minimizes the Risk.
Like if he checks the Lawyer credentials and track record first.
There is usealy a regulatory body for things like Lawyers and such so checkings not that hard.
Scams no matter what type normally only work if the person being Scammed doesn't do any checks.
Infact most any type of Scams rely on the target not checking so if he gets Scammed it means he didn't check.
Which intern means he's not risk averse So again its either he is or he isn't not both.
 

ename144

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Nice try but you just proved my point either he's risk averse or he's not.
If he's Risk averse it just means he will do what he can to minimizes any risk in anything he do's
Not that he avoids any risk at all... thats practically impossible best case he minimizes the Risk.
Like if he checks the Lawyer credentials and track record first.
There is usealy a regulatory body for things like Lawyers and such so checkings not that hard.
Scams no matter what type normally only work if the person being Scammed doesn't do any checks.
Infact most any type of Scams rely on the target not checking so if he gets Scammed it means he didn't check.
Which intern means he's not risk averse So again its either he is or he isn't not both.
Perhaps I'm not being clear. The new version of the MC blew his money on a crypto scam, and was so traumatized that he spent the next ten years taking absolutely no chances whatsoever. This means that in the intervening time he has had exactly zero opportunities to improve his basic judgement or his tolerance for risk. Yet the instant he makes a fortune selling his old KobaltKoins, he's not only willing to make rapid fire risky decisions (hiring a financial advisor, investing in real estate, hiring a lawyer), but based on the way the original game played out he's done a pretty shrewd job on all of them (though I suppose he did decide to ghost Nicki, so that does break up the streak a bit).

Given the way the game had gone to that point I'd find either of those outcomes unexpected on their own, but both together just seems out of character for the MC as he was (re)established. Remember, we didn't see a montage of the MC making some sound decisions prior to his drunken YOLO investment. We opened with him making one of the stupidest decisions possible, then watched him refuse to learn any useful lessons from as he writhed around for a decade.

The only thing this MC is demonstrably good at is fucking up. If he struck it rich, I'd expect him to either stuff the money under his mattress and be paralyzed by indecision, or decide he's bulletproof after all and go right back to making poorly thought out spending decisions. We know he didn't hoard the money, so that means he's back to being a high roller... and thus an industrial-strength scam magnet.

I know that's not what happens because I played the original version, but that MC had a lot more leeway to exercise good judgement either before or after the fateful incident. The remake spends more time fleshing out his actions but they're all terrible. Hence my assertion that if he came into money, I'd expect him to lose it rapidly.
 
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Pixillin'

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Perhaps I'm not being clear. The new version of the MC blew his money on a crypto scam, and was so traumatized that he spent the next ten years taking absolutely no chances whatsoever. This means that in the intervening time he has had exactly zero opportunities to improve his basic judgement or his tolerance for risk. Yet the instant he makes a fortune selling his old KobaltKoins, he's not only willing to make rapid fire risky decisions (hiring a financial advisor, investing in real estate, hiring a lawyer), but based on the way the original game played out he's done a pretty shrewd job on all of them (though I suppose he did decide to ghost Nicki, so that does break up the streak a bit).

Given the way the game had gone to that point I'd find either of those outcomes unexpected on their own, but both together just seems out of character for the MC as he was (re)established. Remember, we didn't see a montage of the MC making some sound decisions prior to his drunken YOLO investment. We opened with him making one of the stupidest decisions possible, then watched him refuse to learn any useful lessons from as he writhed around for a decade.

The only thing this MC is demonstrably good at is fucking up. If he struck it rich, I'd expect him to either stuff the money under his mattress and be paralyzed by indecision, or decide he's bulletproof after all and go right back to making poorly thought out spending decisions. We know he didn't hoard the money, so that means he's back to being a high roller... and thus an industrial-strength scam magnet.

I know that's not what happens because I played the original version, but that MC had a lot more leeway to exercise good judgement either before or after the fateful incident. The remake spends more time fleshing out his actions but they're all terrible. Hence my assertion that if he came into money, I'd expect him to lose it rapidly.
There is a middle ground though between stuffing the money under his mattress and buying lottery tickets with it - it's what most people with money do - hire a money guy and a lawyer and make some safeish diversified investments. At any rate, I don't think we are going to have any influence on whether Guy finishes rich or poor (unless one or the other is a consequence of the moral path you take).
 
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Indeed. That's the problem with the new Nicki. She's a stereotypical character, a flawless Mary Sue. She's one-dimensional and without edges. She presents no conflicts. And she's not interesting as a character. She's downright boring. Will her conflicts and edges be presented later? Maybe. But right now she's a very weak character.

Something, by the way, that already happened with Ashe in Chapter 2, and which was also criticized at the time.
Manic Pixie Dream Girl is probably the term you're looking for. Nicki isn't flawless or a Mary Sue really. She categorically is stated to push other people's buttons. Even after this remake she makes loads of mistakes which remain in the story. The most Mary Sue behaviours are that she's important to the story, and that she ends up being good at the job position Guy hires her to fill. One-dimensional maybe, more so as a manic pixie dream girl, though there are scenes and interactions which suggest otherwise. There's more of a case to be made for Ashe being one-dimensional since she's usually portrayed as a ditz. The lawyer off the top of my head is probably the closest example of a Mary Sue in the story, though she'd probably need to start kickboxing people and crash her car into center stage of the story first.

Thats a bit of a contraditon right there.

I am willing to concede the MC could in theory fritter it away frivolous toys... but come on New Scams?.
To fall for any scam requires a willingness by the MC to take risk's.
And in you own words the MC is now risk averse.
You can't have it both ways either he's risk averse or he's not.
Just Sayin.
You didn't actually quote the contradictory statements, but they're definitely contradictory. He is risk averse and appears to invest the bulk of his money into a risk averse strategy. Since the story isn't him day trading, its probably just all tossed into the S&P or something, definitely not surprising for the established character. I agree his charity could be him frittering away his wealth. I'd add even toys seems unlikely since he comes off like he'd just move back into his old apartment lol.

The attempt was pretty unsuccessful in my eyes. I mean, I get why the MC was too scared to ask her out himself, that part makes sense. But why on earth would he ever encourage her to date Brent? The new Brent is a pretty insufferable asshat from the instant you meet him, so the MC's assertion that he "seems.. fun" seems extremely dubious.

There should be plenty of room for the MC to self-sabotage his chances with Nicki without inflicting that lunkhead on her, but the plot needs her to date Brent so the MC encourages it just because. Blech.
Turning Brent into Mason is the true dark path. I agree there are points you aren't given an option for the most reasonable course of action (especially in chapter one), but if everything worked out before the story even began there'd be no story.
 

Pixillin'

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Manic Pixie Dream Girl is probably the term you're looking for. Nicki isn't flawless or a Mary Sue really. She categorically is stated to push other people's buttons. Even after this remake she makes loads of mistakes which remain in the story. The most Mary Sue behaviours are that she's important to the story, and that she ends up being good at the job position Guy hires her to fill. One-dimensional maybe, more so as a manic pixie dream girl, though there are scenes and interactions which suggest otherwise. There's more of a case to be made for Ashe being one-dimensional since she's usually portrayed as a ditz. The lawyer off the top of my head is probably the closest example of a Mary Sue in the story, though she'd probably need to start kickboxing people and crash her car into center stage of the story first.
I don't think anyone qualifies as a manic pixie dream girl, or a Mary Sue at this point. I think Nicky might be perfect for MC, but definitely not flawless and she's certainly not the light hearted pixie, pushing guy toward new adventures - if anything she's a bit overprotective and jealous. There is still a lot of character development that needs to happen for all of them, but I don't see anyone filling those roles really. None of them really ooze confidence and ambition, nor do any of them seem like they want to take guy by the hand and lead him into a life of adventures and new experiences. At this point most of them are cautious about guy, absorbed in their own problems, and looking for safety and stability more than anything.
 
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I don't think anyone qualifies as a manic pixie dream girl, or a Mary Sue at this point. I think Nicky might be perfect for MC, but definitely not flawless and she's certainly not the light hearted pixie, pushing guy toward new adventures - if anything she's a bit overprotective and jealous. There is still a lot of character development that needs to happen for all of them, but I don't see anyone filling those roles really. None of them really ooze confidence and ambition, nor do any of them seem like they want to take guy by the hand and lead him into a life of adventures and new experiences. At this point most of them are cautious about guy, absorbed in their own problems, and looking for safety and stability more than anything.
She definitely has character qualities which meet the typical criteria, which is why I suggested it for his criticism. Mary Sue was inaccurate, she isn't beloved by everyone who meets her, seen as beautiful or flawless by other characters and she isn't instantly skilled at everything she does. I don't actually think anyone truly meets the Mary Sue criteria, but the lawyer probably really is the closest. The sister instantly falls in love with her and she gives Guy story relevant advice in the remake of chapter one. There could be a better example, but I don't believe any character is one so they'd need to suddenly develop uncharacteristic skills and then probably die heroically in the final act. Nicki is, at least in the remake, the catalyst which spurs Guy on to new adventures though, she's the inciting incident for his charity. I'm not meaning the term negatively, but it's definitely a tick in the manic pixie dream girl direction. I think there's depth as we've seen Nicki act differently with different people and different situations in a believable manner.
 

Pixillin'

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She definitely has character qualities which meet the typical criteria, which is why I suggested it for his criticism. Mary Sue was inaccurate, she isn't beloved by everyone who meets her, seen as beautiful or flawless by other characters and she isn't instantly skilled at everything she does. I don't actually think anyone truly meets the Mary Sue criteria, but the lawyer probably really is the closest. The sister instantly falls in love with her and she gives Guy story relevant advice in the remake of chapter one. There could be a better example, but I don't believe any character is one so they'd need to suddenly develop uncharacteristic skills and then probably die heroically in the final act. Nicki is, at least in the remake, the catalyst which spurs Guy on to new adventures though, she's the inciting incident for his charity. I'm not meaning the term negatively, but it's definitely a tick in the manic pixie dream girl direction. I think there's depth as we've seen Nicki act differently with different people and different situations in a believable manner.
But usually with the manic pixie dream girl it's not an accident. Usually she finds a guy who is underconfident, kind of a shy, loner and literally drags him into things - believing in him when no one else does - Guy breaks out of his shell after what happens with Nicky but she doesn't drag him into it, and while she does boost his confidence it's more like she notices the changes in him, rather than pushing him into the changes. I guess she might qualify in kind of an abstract way but she doesn't really fit the mold - and for her to even sort of qualify, you have to treat her really well.
 

Naps-On-Dirt

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I didn't understand why a Ch1 remake arrived but after playing it I think it is great; it introduces story elements a bit smoother (like how he came to own the convenience store) and I wholeheartedly approve of the earlier introduction of Carolina. :love:

A technical note, I played the Patreon version first (it was the first to show up, I think?) and the sprite for Nicki (with green shirt and dark hair) kept appearing for a split second between each render or line of dialogue. It doesn't seem to be happening as I flip through the SS version.
 

soldano

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Manic Pixie Dream Girl is probably the term you're looking for. Nicki isn't flawless or a Mary Sue really. She categorically is stated to push other people's buttons. Even after this remake she makes loads of mistakes which remain in the story. The most Mary Sue behaviours are that she's important to the story, and that she ends up being good at the job position Guy hires her to fill. One-dimensional maybe, more so as a manic pixie dream girl, though there are scenes and interactions which suggest otherwise. There's more of a case to be made for Ashe being one-dimensional since she's usually portrayed as a ditz. The lawyer off the top of my head is probably the closest example of a Mary Sue in the story, though she'd probably need to start kickboxing people and crash her car into center stage of the story first.
A Mary Sue is a type of idealized female character, usually young and pretty, who has no flaws (and if she does, they're there to enhance the character even more). The new Nicki fits that stereotype perfectly. The only flaw that could be attributed to the new Nicki is being too nice. And that's something typical of Mary Sues, too. Want to call it something else? Okay. But I'm referring to this archetype: an idealized female character with no noticeable flaws.
 

Pixillin'

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A Mary Sue is a type of idealized female character, usually young and pretty, who has no flaws (and if she does, they're there to enhance the character even more). The new Nicki fits that stereotype perfectly. The only flaw that could be attributed to the new Nicki is being too nice. And that's something typical of Mary Sues, too. Want to call it something else? Okay. But I'm referring to this archetype: an idealized female character with no noticeable flaws.
well we haven’t spent a ton of time with her but Nicky got dragged into nude modeling and almost into porn, she had some ptsd, self esteem issues, and is a bit jealous and overprotective. She’s also covered in tattoos she doesn’t like and didn’t want. I’m glad you like her enough to think she’s perfect anyway, so do I. She is not a Mary Sue though.
 

ffive

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well we haven’t spent a ton of time with her but Nicky got dragged into nude modeling and almost into porn, she had some ptsd, self esteem issues, and is a bit jealous and overprotective.
Getting dragged into trouble because you're just too nice to your shit boyfriend and/or don't want to be nuisance to your best friend is painting the character in positive light, if anything. Similarly being humble and suffering from trauma that makes others feel protective about you.

Jealousy is a toss-up, some people enjoy being on the receiving end of it, so for them it's also a plus. That said, i don't really remember any instances of Nicki being annoyingly jealous and/or overprotective.

edit: That said, "Mary Sue" isn't the term i'd use for her. "Writer's pet" might be closer, but i don't think this would be entirely accurate, too. It's more like she simply has a large role in the story.
 

Pixillin'

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Getting dragged into trouble because you're just too nice to your shit boyfriend and/or don't want to be nuisance to your best friend is painting the character in positive light, if anything. Similarly being humble and suffering from trauma that makes others feel protective about you.

Jealousy is a toss-up, some people enjoy being on the receiving end of it, so for them it's also a plus. That said, i don't really remember any instances of Nicki being annoyingly jealous and/or overprotective.

edit: That said, "Mary Sue" isn't the term i'd use for her. "Writer's pet" might be closer, but i don't think this would be entirely accurate, too. It's more like she simply has a large role in the story.
I think ‘because she was too nice’ is over simplifying. I think she had self esteem issues then too and problems with saying no. Being a people pleaser on that level is usually a result of childhood trauma / abuse.
 
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LWtbo

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Well not Annoyingly Jealous no but she gets a Bit Jealous if you remeber the Jacuzzi installation scene.
Atleast on the nice route with Niki she gets a catty with the Instalation babe/Selfdefence trainer.
 

Pixillin'

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Well not Annoyingly Jealous no but she gets a Bit Jealous if you remeber the Jacuzzi installation scene.
Atleast on the nice route with Niki she gets a catty with the Instalation babe/Selfdefence trainer.
She also really doesn’t like Risa.
 

ffive

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She also really doesn’t like Risa.
To be fair all she knows about Risa is that she's dragged Guy into criminal den without even as little as heads up. If someone did that to my close friend i'd be pretty pissed off at them, too.

I think ‘because she was too nice’ is over simplifying. I think she had self esteem issues then too and problems with saying no. Being a people pleaser on that level is usually a result of childhood trauma / abuse.
Yeah but again, those aren't really perceived as negative qualities, at least when it comes to girls. More of a "aww look at the poor abused cutie, she needs a hug and be protected and told how great she really is" catalyst.
 
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