VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[Joshy92]

I personally think Nicki is the best written character so far, especially after the chapter one remake.
Her dynamic with Guy is so good. It's the main selling point for me with this avn.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I think ‘because she was too nice’ is over simplifying. I think she had self esteem issues then too and problems with saying no. Being a people pleaser on that level is usually a result of childhood trauma / abuse.

In Nicki's case i believe the trauma likely comes from her toxic relationship with Brent that went on for years before and after we first meet the characters of this story. Plus all the shit that happened to her later as result of said toxic relationship.

I personally think Nicki is the best written character so far, especially after the chapter one remake.
Her dynamic with Guy is so good. It's the main selling point for me with this avn.

While i mostly agree about Nicki being a very well written character i think we could say the same of others too, like Ashe or Mason or Risa and even Guy himself.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

I don't actually think anyone truly meets the Mary Sue criteria, but the lawyer probably really is the closest. The sister instantly falls in love with her and she gives Guy story relevant advice in the remake of chapter one.

That's not a Mary Sue my friend A Mary Sue is a (female) character without any real flaws or drawbacks or struggles. The character doesn't arc, and all of their 'challenges' serve merely to prove their own knack for winning at everything they do. I've never really put much thought into it enough to have any real good examples, and it doesn't seem like it's that common anyways, at least the kind of material I consume, but off the top of my head, think of like the PC in a video game; like say, Shepherd in Mass Effect series or Dragonborn in Skyrim or something. Obviously, it makes perfect sense for those sorts of characters, but if the player makes all the right decisions, their PC can do anything and everything. Now just pretend that they're a third-person character in a story; they'd be boring and eye-rollingly annoying to follow. The lawyer is definitely not that, and is just a minor character serving a purpose like every other minor character.

In Nicki's case i believe the trauma likely comes from her toxic relationship with Brent that went on for years before and after we first meet the characters of this story. Plus all the shit that happened to her later as result of said toxic relationship.


While i mostly agree about Nicki being a very well written character i think we could say the same of others too, like Ashe or Mason or Risa and even Guy himself.

Think the author said that Nicki's past with her brothers (or at least one of them) was sexually abusive So, I think it starts way before Brent, and in fact is the reason why she accepted a prick like him in the first place.

well we haven’t spent a ton of time with her but Nicky got dragged into nude modeling and almost into porn, she had some ptsd, self esteem issues, and is a bit jealous and overprotective. She’s also covered in tattoos she doesn’t like and didn’t want. I’m glad you like her enough to think she’s perfect anyway, so do I. She is not a Mary Sue though.

Yep, this.

Also, guys, I'm not saying that complex, layered, flawed characters shouldn't be the ultimate goal of every story, but we have to remember this is a porn VN at the end of the day... the LIs have to lean into a relationship fantasy; I mean, they don't have to, but it really goes against the business model if they don't. And anyways, I think the LIs do have flaws, especially Nicki who I view as one of the most flawed of the bunch.

Plus, consider this: if you want to develop your own head canon of the LI's flaws, not that it would count, but there's really enough uncertainty with the LIs to do that. For example, on Ashe's first scene, she tells Guy she doesn't usually do this sort of thing with men; well, she could be telling the truth.. or she could be telling Guy what he wants to hear for fear of losing her chance with him. I kind of like to pretend it's the latter, because I'm a sucker for complications. And Nicki; she tells you that she wasn't raped at the porno shoot, but was she being honest? Or is she choosing to keep that trauma to herself? Maybe she wants to tell her best friend, but every time she tries, it just won't come out? That's not uncommon for victims.

So, really, there's lots of things that Neon gives us to kind of make up for ourselves, if we really, really want to. I don't actually think any of this is really the case, but I like to pretend there's things they aren't telling us or being completely honest about.

 

[Ryofu888]

Is there no dark path with the chapter 1 remake?

 

[ffive]

That's not a Mary Sue my friend

There's

You must be registered to see the links

, none of them really official or right. Though if someone feels bored they can try

You must be registered to see the links

, i guess.

 

[Nerv_rr]

Is there no dark path with the chapter 1 remake?

you need download the patch , and pick every bad option , its also in the end of the chap , so you need to be patient to see it

 

[LWtbo]

Is there no dark path with the chapter 1 remake?

Patch it first.
And I haven't tried it but I believe way you get to it was changed.
You need to pick misogynistic, selfish and creepy'ish choices for Guy From the start.
Stuff like when Ashe runs past the two cat calling assholes and they make lewd comments.
You choose for Guy to think similarly to them.
And not think their assholes for Cat calling Ashe

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Think the author said that Nicki's past with her brothers (or at least one of them) was sexually abusive So, I think it starts way before Brent, and in fact is the reason why she accepted a prick like him in the first place.

Don't remember hearing about that before.
Going to try asking Neon later about this.

 

[Radical_Dreamer]

Hello, all.

So I saw this update and saw that Chapter 1 was remade. Is the whole game getting a remake, or just Chapter 1? Does the remake need to be added into the game itself or is it standalone?

Just trying to make sure I don't mess up my downloads.

 

[Pixillin']

Don't remember hearing about that before.
Going to try asking Neon later about this.

IIRC he said something about her behavior indicating childhood abuse but I don't think he was specific about from whom or even if it was a fact. I think in his head it's true, but I don't think it's mentioned in the game yet. (My memory could also be faulty - maybe he was specific at some point.)

 

[fleetp]

Hello, all.

So I saw this update and saw that Chapter 1 was remade. Is the whole game getting a remake, or just Chapter 1? Does the remake need to be added into the game itself or is it standalone?

Just trying to make sure I don't mess up my downloads.

See linked post ->https://f95zone.to/threads/friends-in-need-ch-1-remake-v0-25-neonghosts.112500/post-16996831

 

[Nerv_rr]

Hello, all.

So I saw this update and saw that Chapter 1 was remade. Is the whole game getting a remake, or just Chapter 1? Does the remake need to be added into the game itself or is it standalone?

Just trying to make sure I don't mess up my downloads.

just the chap 1 thats getting a remake , maybe some dialogue changes too in chap 2 too ? the remake is currently standalone , but will be added to the game in the future

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

There's

You must be registered to see the links

, none of them really official or right. Though if someone feels bored they can try

You must be registered to see the links

, i guess.

Maybe it's not objective or anything and lots of people disagree over which characters in whatever content qualifies, but the lawyer in FiN is definitely, definitely not an example of a Mary Sue I don't really see how Mary Sue could even apply to any of FiN's LIs, they're all vulnerable and struggling with various problems the MC can decide to resolve or exploit. I mean, you can sexually assault all of them.. isn't that kind of the antithesis to a Mary Sue? I think whoever brought up Mary Sue was actually looking for another term, maybe? For a 'perfect' character with no unlikeable traits. Which, again, I don't think any of the LIs are except maybe Viola until we see more of her, but it can at least be argued. I don't think Mary Sue can.

 

[ffive]

I mean, you can sexually assault all of them.. isn't that kind of the antithesis to a Mary Sue?

Not really, no. In fact, one of possible Mary Sue's traits is that she'd evoke intense loathing from villains, the same way she makes all the good guys simp for her and adore her. So, the evil guy going as far as rape (especially if he's been fixated on her the way prologue Guy does) would be on brand

But like i said, personally i don't think this label really applies to Nicki, at least not in the classic sense.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Not really, no. In fact, one of possible Mary Sue's traits is that she'd evoke intense loathing from villains, the same way she makes all the good guys simp for her and adore her. So, the evil guy going as far as rape (especially if he's been fixated on her the way prologue Guy does) would be on brand

But like i said, personally i don't think this label really applies to Nicki, at least not in the classic sense.

Well, ok, maybe I was thinking more of a protagonist hero Mary Sue like Rey or something when mentioning assault, but yeah, point is all of these LIs are very vulnerable and ripe for the helpin' or the hinderin' or somewhere in between If anything, Guy is by far the closest to a Mary Sue (Gary Stu = dude version?), but clearly Guy is ripe with issues and doesn't win at everything. To be completely honest, I don't care so much about all of this being present in a porn VN as long as it's all compelling and sexy, which it is.

 

[Acardia02]

No girl In her right mind no matter how easygoing or Naive they appear.
Is ever going to stay friends with an misogynistic asshole let alone care about him.

Lol... Go outside — a lot of girls choose to date assholes. Heck, some even marry them. They love the drama and "the challenge".

 

[Boopadooparoop]

But usually with the manic pixie dream girl it's not an accident. Usually she finds a guy who is underconfident, kind of a shy, loner and literally drags him into things - believing in him when no one else does - Guy breaks out of his shell after what happens with Nicky but she doesn't drag him into it, and while she does boost his confidence it's more like she notices the changes in him, rather than pushing him into the changes. I guess she might qualify in kind of an abstract way but she doesn't really fit the mold - and for her to even sort of qualify, you have to treat her really well.

Guy begins as all of those things, and Nicki does drag him into doing things. She states that she made moves on him, she's the catalyst for the coffee trysts, and when he ignores her she shows up at his doorstep and makes him spend time with her which leads to the inciting incident. I'm not meaning the term for its negative connotations, more of a neutral term for an archetypal character in modern media, I don't know of a more positive or accurate term. Mostly I think its accuracy would be shallow, the hair, attitude, quirky gamer aesthetic, and then just the one example of being good with children because she shares interests with them. As you mentioned she isn't actually there dotting over him and she isn't forcing the characters growth, she's ultimately just a solid female lead.

A Mary Sue is a type of idealized female character, usually young and pretty, who has no flaws (and if she does, they're there to enhance the character even more). The new Nicki fits that stereotype perfectly. The only flaw that could be attributed to the new Nicki is being too nice. And that's something typical of Mary Sues, too. Want to call it something else? Okay. But I'm referring to this archetype: an idealized female character with no noticeable flaws.

What happens after the remake of chapter one still happens in the story. It's been awhile since I played it, but her stripper/prostitute past should still be there in subsequent chapters. Maybe people don't consider it a character flaw, but she appears to derive shame from it, I believe evil Guy uses it as a method of control over her and it seems to be an integral issue to the problem presented in the plot of recent updates. In the lens of just remake chapter one I'd agree with you though.

well we haven’t spent a ton of time with her but Nicky got dragged into nude modeling and almost into porn, she had some ptsd, self esteem issues, and is a bit jealous and overprotective. She’s also covered in tattoos she doesn’t like and didn’t want. I’m glad you like her enough to think she’s perfect anyway, so do I. She is not a Mary Sue though.

Exactly this.

That's not a Mary Sue my friend A Mary Sue is a (female) character without any real flaws or drawbacks or struggles. The character doesn't arc, and all of their 'challenges' serve merely to prove their own knack for winning at everything they do. I've never really put much thought into it enough to have any real good examples, and it doesn't seem like it's that common anyways, at least the kind of material I consume, but off the top of my head, think of like the PC in a video game; like say, Shepherd in Mass Effect series or Dragonborn in Skyrim or something. Obviously, it makes perfect sense for those sorts of characters, but if the player makes all the right decisions, their PC can do anything and everything. Now just pretend that they're a third-person character in a story; they'd be boring and eye-rollingly annoying to follow. The lawyer is definitely not that, and is just a minor character serving a purpose like every other minor character.

You neglected to quote the part where I mentioned no one is a Mary Sue, and would probably need to develop uncharacteristic skills promptly. While I largely agree with your definition, I would say you're missing that they're regarded as pretty by everyone, usually cap off their story with a heroic sacrifice and take up skills without any required character growth. The skill is probably the most grievous sin of the Mary Sue and something everyone seems to be ignoring, though under your terminology it likely falls under a lack of struggles. If you establish a character who is weak, and then they beat a 20 year trained MMA fighter in a random street brawl and the guy stands up and calls him a prodigy of fighting, or you have a technologically illiterate Amish traveler who looks at a computer and hacks the database, you've probably written a Mary Sue. Using playable RPG game characters is probably not the best place to look for a Mary Sue. The stories development isn't static and the player is typically putting in the effort for the characters growth and decisions. Those two characters do share similarities to what I suggested but much of what is shared by a Mary Sue is typical of the hero's journey. A good example I can think of is that Divergent series. Every character falls in love with her or has to mention how pretty she is, she takes up all sorts of random skills without any character development, and she carks it at the end. Male versions would probably be Wil Wheaton's character in Star Trek TNG, or the Xander guy in Buffy. The lawyer is a very flimsy example, and the result of being a minor character as you mention. I imagine she'll be given more development, and that'll be handled well. I only mention her as the only character I can think of without any presented flaw, who has other characters interested in her and who is very skilled at her job of law, which isn't uncharacteristic. The lawyer does fit what you initially described as a Mary Sue though. I still don't think she's a Mary Sue, just the closest example in the story, which should be a testament to how well Neon has been handling characters. There might be a more accurate example in the story, but I can only think of other characters with fatal flaws or a crux which Guy can either exploit or help.

 

[Pixillin']

Guy begins as all of those things, and Nicki does drag him into doing things. She states that she made moves on him, she's the catalyst for the coffee trysts, and when he ignores her she shows up at his doorstep and makes him spend time with her which leads to the inciting incident. I'm not meaning the term for its negative connotations, more of a neutral term for an archetypal character in modern media, I don't know of a more positive or accurate term. Mostly I think its accuracy would be shallow, the hair, attitude, quirky gamer aesthetic, and then just the one example of being good with children because she shares interests with them. As you mentioned she isn't actually there dotting over him and she isn't forcing the characters growth, she's ultimately just a solid female lead.

Also, Risa’s father tries to threaten/ intimidate Guy by bringing up Nicki’s past. Her being a weak point for Guy would be unusual for either archetype.

 

[LWtbo]

Lol... Go outside — a lot of girls choose to date assholes. Heck, some even marry them. They love the drama and "the challenge".

Yes your right they will Date or Marry one because they think they can be the woman to change them.
But thats not the point the point you conveniently skipped is that they won't put up with one as a friend.
I don't need to go outside to know that I have seen it often enough with Friends, colleagues and relatives.
Not a single one that have either dated an assholes nor the ones that married an asshole.
Were ever willing to put up with one for long as a friend.

 

[OneShotLarry]

I thought making young Guy look like the MC from Being a DIK was cute, but the remake of Chapter 1 was a big nothingburger for me, talking and talking and, hey, even MORE talking, and in the end none of it is really necessary for the overall game, and the remake version of "out of shape" MC was pretty ugly.

The Ashe cameo was nice, but hopefully Neon Ghosts can get back on track now and focus on actually moving the story forward and stop introducing new harem candidates or remaking old chapters. Really need to get cracking on creampieing Brittani and the chick who installed the hot tub.