Thanks for sharing the post, I hope your friend gets well and has a full recovery.
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As a note, if anyone here has ever pledged to the Patreon or wants to do so, the demo we're putting out on September 14th will go out to anyone who's ever pledged, even if at $1!
(Yes, we had to push it back due to issues Frouge had with programming the boss fight as well as his own IRL stuff. Haven't had a delay this bad since 2018, so hopefully it's the last.)
In worse news though, as a result of things taking much longer than we thought to get done, we're going to have to unfortunately push the final release date of the game to March 31st, 2021.
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There shouldn't be anymore delays after this, given that we're giving ourselves another 4 months for things like bugtesting (a month for this for sure), final polish, Steam approval (which can take up to 2 weeks or more), and the remainder of gameplay/content that needs to be done.
Also, we've still got to finish the massive amount of voice acting across nearly 300 interlinked cutscenes/databanks.
If you're interested, you can see the connections between just ONE level's worth here for one example;
Here's the databanks and their connections to other databanks by number and cutscenes by number on the right;
And here's the same for cutscenes and their connections to other databanks in the middle, and other cutscenes, on the right.
We really, really apologize for these delays, but we'd rather we make sure the game is every bit as good as you all deserve for supporting the game with your hard-earned money and time, than push it out the door incomplete and buggy right at the finish line like we're Electronic Arts or something.
As per usual too, if you're pledging on Patreon, you can always ask for refunds on Patreon for up to the last 3 months per what Patreon allows us to refund; we're happy to refund anyone for any reason.
Thank you all for continuing to stick with us; we don't intend to have any more delays like this from here on out, or at least we'll do our best not to have anymore happen.
(Yes, we had to push it back due to issues Frouge had with programming the boss fight as well as his own IRL stuff. Haven't had a delay this bad since 2018, so hopefully it's the last.)
In worse news though, as a result of things taking much longer than we thought to get done, we're going to have to unfortunately push the final release date of the game to March 31st, 2021.
----------------------------
There shouldn't be anymore delays after this, given that we're giving ourselves another 4 months for things like bugtesting (a month for this for sure), final polish, Steam approval (which can take up to 2 weeks or more), and the remainder of gameplay/content that needs to be done.
Also, we've still got to finish the massive amount of voice acting across nearly 300 interlinked cutscenes/databanks.
If you're interested, you can see the connections between just ONE level's worth here for one example;
Here's the databanks and their connections to other databanks by number and cutscenes by number on the right;
And here's the same for cutscenes and their connections to other databanks in the middle, and other cutscenes, on the right.
We really, really apologize for these delays, but we'd rather we make sure the game is every bit as good as you all deserve for supporting the game with your hard-earned money and time, than push it out the door incomplete and buggy right at the finish line like we're Electronic Arts or something.
As per usual too, if you're pledging on Patreon, you can always ask for refunds on Patreon for up to the last 3 months per what Patreon allows us to refund; we're happy to refund anyone for any reason.
Thank you all for continuing to stick with us; we don't intend to have any more delays like this from here on out, or at least we'll do our best not to have anymore happen.
- May 21, 2017
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I've been excited about this game for a long time, and I still am. However, from the progress so far its not going to be for the reasons I originally expected.
What looks better than expected: The gameplay. Particularly in the highlight clips, its apparent that the gameplay is going to be a blast. I can't wait to see legit speedrunners get their hands on the finished product, too.
What is a little disappointing: The hentai. Now, I'm not at all saying its bad. It just mostly turned out to not be "my thing". The foreplay stuff, the machines, and not so well-hung enemies (amounting to most of the overall hentai content) all amount to something that's sorta sexy but not really exciting for me.
What looks better than expected: The gameplay. Particularly in the highlight clips, its apparent that the gameplay is going to be a blast. I can't wait to see legit speedrunners get their hands on the finished product, too.
What is a little disappointing: The hentai. Now, I'm not at all saying its bad. It just mostly turned out to not be "my thing". The foreplay stuff, the machines, and not so well-hung enemies (amounting to most of the overall hentai content) all amount to something that's sorta sexy but not really exciting for me.
I frankly don't see that happening. At best it'll stay a niche game. No way it'll get a speedrun.com page.
Thanks a lot for understanding
sorry to hear about corona affecting you, hopefully things get better for everyone here soon.Just to be clear, the machine/robot sex stuff is only in one of the 5 levels of the game;
There's definitely some very well hung enemies in the other stages, for example;
So hopefully you'll be able to enjoy the other levels if the Electric level wasn't much of your thing
You never know; we do have a speedrun mode intended, with its own special ending too!
that reminds me, is the one boss that turns you into a corrupted being still a thing? i dont know if there rae any truely bad endings or game overs you can find in the full game, but it seemed like there were less of that as time went on.Thanks a lot for understanding
You never know; we do have a speedrun mode intended, with its own special ending too!
speedrun pages are easy, you can just set one up right now as long as you have a run of anything. what i wouldnt bank on is the game gtting to GDQ because its a porn game.
That would be the boss of the fire level. I don't know about that animation, but I do know they had to alter the animation of the flying imp enemy, because it included hypnosis. And hypnosis = non consensual sex according to Patreon, so that had to be scrapped. Not sure if corruption falls under similar rules.
What is on patreon and what will be in the game is 2 very different topics. The lack of bad endings that are permanent/non reversed in dialogue, as well as radiosilence on said boss, can mean that they will be there, they just arent there now to avoid problems, hence me asking.
- May 21, 2017
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Yeah, the Behemoth loss pose is my favorite thing so far between all levels.Just to be clear, the machine/robot sex stuff is only in one of the 5 levels of the game;
There's definitely some very well hung enemies in the other stages, for example;
View attachment 798237 View attachment 798238
So hopefully you'll be able to enjoy the other levels if the Electric level wasn't much of your thing
You never know; we do have a speedrun mode intended, with its own special ending too!
As to the speedrun.com question, they already have adult-themed games there. This game will apparently have a full toggle for NSFW, and its got better mechanics by far than 99% of existing H-games...and that includes larger studios like Illusion. So I'd actually be very surprised if it DIDN'T show up in the legit speedrunning community...to say nothing of many mid-large multi-game streamers doing it for the memes and then finding the gameplay is fantastic.
It is, but like with everything, Talia will just eat her earring to respawn at the Save Pad with everything reverted back to normal.
Since we'll be continuing with the sequel on Patreon after this game's done, as well as the original game being still available on Patreon after it's completed, we'll need to continue abiding by Patreon policies (and by association, Visa/Mastercard policies, as those are the policies Patreon has to follow).
That said, even if Patreon weren't an issue, the game would remain effectively as it is now; there's not really anything removed from the game that we wouldn't have removed/altered to begin with (the hypnosis animation for example was going to go either way; it makes no sense for a military that hates sex to have an enemy that uses hypnotism to make their enemies aroused, when their enemies are all for sex).
There will be 3 permanent bad endings in the game, all reached at the very end of the game if you don't have all the gold databanks/fragment pieces; they won't result in anything awful though like the women being hurt in any way or something like that. (Arguably, the "true endings" could be seen as "bad" depending on your perspective, too.)
Outside of those, all other endings are intentionally able to have the "slate wiped clean", meaning they still happened, but any effects of them on Talia are wiped clean.
yknow what
reasonable
hdont really know what else to say but figured i say something so you dont think im irked out lol
>removing hypnosis content because it contradicts the arbitrary lore you yourself wrote
lol amazing, Western devs
lol amazing, Western devs
- Apr 26, 2019
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Dev is convinced that depicting hypnosis counts as depicting rape and patreon apparently is against this. I'm aware of several artists and game devs on patreon that make both rape and hypnosis content but whatever I guess the dev is afraid that the ppl at Patreon are going to find out about him including it (somehow?).
I mean you never know lul maybe they have employees dedicated to playing each and every h-game hosted on the platform.
- Apr 26, 2019
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>maybe they have employees dedicated to playing each and every h-game hosted on the platform.
maybe, too bad no hypnosis
Given that the lore is a pretty significant part of the game and a large reason (statistically, from public and backer polls both) why a lot of people have backed the game, as well as (most importantly) our own desire to have consistent lore, having something in there that heavily contradicts it doesn't really work.
The lore for games does change over time, especially early on; many early concepts and content on games gets drastically changed by the end of development, and this was just one of those things. Very few, if any games have the entire plot, lore, continuity, and so on planned out from the getgo with zero changes during development.
To be clear, it was a single animation across the entire game; hypnosis was never a large focus or even a focus within the game, and we removed it years ago.
There have been multiple reports of games being hit for hypnosis; if you want a large example, check out Snow Daze. There's even articles on it you can read with a quick google search;
You must be registered to see the links
The tl;dr is that Visa/Mastercard considers fantasy hypnosis as "total removal of consent", hence it gets hit fairly hard. In real life, of course this isn't the case, and it is a pretty silly policy, but it is what it is.
As far as "several artists and game devs on Patreon that don't get hit", as with any service, there are always going to be people who don't get hit because there's tens of thousands of creators and only a staff of probably 20-30 checking these games by hand (and yes, they do check them by hand; multiple devs I talk to have been hit for stuff deep, deep in their games that they've never posted or shown on social media or anywhere else, very specific things.)
However, as noted before, we would have removed it regardless. There's other content in the game that as we went on, we found didn't really fit the game that well and so we ended up altering it or removing it for gameplay reasons, or plot reasons, or aesthetic reasons, even though none of it was a risk ban-wise. Many other games you play and enjoy have done the same, you just don't know about it because the development process isn't really transparent in those AAA projects.
It's been a lot more times than that, but that's what happens with a small, 3 person dev team trying to make something with this density of content while building thier own engine effectively; sometimes things take longer than expected. AAA games suffer the same issues with 200+ person teams, so to have a 3 person team have this isn't really surprising.
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Regarding "milking" the game for financial reasons:
- Steam sales will definitely not "be paltry" especially given the amount of wishlists we have already; the average adult game on Steam makes upwards of $100,000-$200,000 in the first year alone. I don't know anyone who's put an adult game on the platform who's made less than $50,000 in the first year.
- Games with prominent marketing and exposure like ours do make more than that on average as well, all within the first year.
- At the same time, we'll still have the Patreon running while we work on the sequel; if we were really in this solely for the money, we would just rush it out to Steam incomplete and rake in the money.
- This isn't even taking into consideration the money we'll be making on the other 10+ platforms that already agreed to sell the game, from Nutaku to FAKKU to Denpasoft to JAST to Mikandi and so on.
- There's also some physical sales places that want to sell the game too, and given the amount of eroge already on Nintendo but censored, we'll be looking into that as well.
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Regarding how much money we make:
- Before we get that money, we pay our voice actress (roughly $1200 a month), our sound effects guy (roughly $200-500 a month depending on work), and our musician (roughly $500-1000 a month). We've also been paying for advertising on a few places which drops it down about another $300 a month, but this is only a very recent thing.
- That drops that number down to about between $8000-10000 a month.
- After that, we split the income 3 ways, so between $2600-ish to $3333-ish a month.
- After rent, bills, utilities, food, etc. I'm left with about $200 in profits personally.
- After that, we split the income 3 ways, so between $2600-ish to $3333-ish a month.
- That drops that number down to about between $8000-10000 a month.
But hold on; there's one thing that's missing from this equation though, isn't there?
The voice acting from the other 250+ characters in the game. Yes, there's that many between databanks and cutscenes.
We're going to need roughly another $30,000 to pay for all that upcoming voicework at $2 per line.
Given the current amount of money on Patreon, that's just simply not going to be enough to pay for all of it, so we're going to have to take out a loan to afford it.
Meaning, we have to get this game out ASAP and get it up on Steam ASAP so we can not get hammered with loan interest and debt after taking on this loan.
So the last thing we would do is just sit around and "milk" the game so to speak, but we also don't want to release something half-assed and half finished given all the support we've gotten over the years, hence the pushbacks.
Plus, honestly, we've been working on this game for almost 6 years now; while we love the game, we REALLY REALLY REALLY want to work on new projects!
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Also, I have to say, "the occasional sprite sex animation" kinda shows you haven't played the game in a long while or much at all tbh; almost every demo up until only very recently (since most of the sex content is finished) has had new sprite sex animations, new CGs, and heck, even the latest demo that came out last month just had two new animations, one of which was a long, multi-stage animation.
It's fine to dislike the game, just don't state false information about it, because that helps no one, and it makes your own stance look weaker and not able to be taken as seriously.
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TL;DR;
- If we were in this for the money specifically, we'd be idiots to just "milk it" on Patreon when releasing it ASAP to Steam sales + Patreon + sales on 10+ other platforms = exponentially more money.
- If we were in this to never release it and milk it forever, that'd be assuming we have no desire to make other games, and given that I've already personally attempted multiple other games that are posted on this very board and have shown game design documents and talked about all our games being in the same universe and affecting one another, I think that's proven we want to do many more games after this.
- Loans hammer you with fees, and we have to get one to have enough money to commission the remainder of voicework. The only way possible we're going to be able to pay all that off is with Steam etc. sales.
- Believe it or not, we're not in this to scam people. We're in this to make games we feel are deserving of people's money. If you don't feel we deserve your money and you've given it to us in the past, ask for a refund and we'll do 100% of it, no questions asked.
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Thanks for your in-depth write-up of ero game income! As someone who works in tech and is toying around with entering game dev as a hobbyist, it feels really dumb when people say "omg ur milking the game with a 10k/mo income!" when a single person earns that much in Silicon Valley doing web dev, and web dev is considerably less complex than game dev is. With some effort you could just drop this project and move to the valley and earn a more comfortable income, so really, who's the beggar here, the game devs, or the people constantly posting about milking on Patreon?
- Mar 20, 2017
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He's had to give this whole financial rundown so many times now, yet the bold claims continue popping up every now and then. Maybe pinning your most elaborate response is a good idea, HentaiWriter?