To be fair I think the bi-weekly updates he does now are the right way to handle things. If he did that early on and didn't keep making promises, it would be fine.
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Yes, and you're welcome for that.
I had to openly challenge him for weeks, telling him to make a similar chart that showed clear goals. Even threw together a mock image explaining how they should be done, and it got deleted.
Imagine if the game had that from the very start of its development. "Lack of transparency" is basically the biggest problem that people can agree on, whether you defend or hate the game.
Imagine if, from the start, they had a chart similar to the one above and was spaced something like this.
- Implementation of planned powerups
- Five levels planned (each level being about seven disjointed hallways)
- Three enemies per level, one guard and two uniques
- One boss per level (5 bosses)
- 5 overworld scenes per level (25 scenes)
- 4 game overs per level (one for each enemy and the boss)
- 1 Faye scene per level (5 scenes)
- 20 terminals per level (100 terminals)
- ~10 cutscenes per level (50 scenes)
You'd be able to, without spoilers, inform everyone every week or so what progress you made. You would have a visual representation of how far the game has come. It would also make people more aware when goalposts get changed, like when something is added to development or cut, such as how equipable powerups were added, or the earth charge attack was removed.
Why did this only finally get added on the ninth year of development, after people had to ask for it?
Why did this game take nine years, when the average ACT turnaround time is like three years?
Hell, the game I posted a chart for only took two years, and it does basically everything that Future Fragment set out to do.
- Nov 2, 2016
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He was too busy pettily replying to every criticism on the internet....
- Sep 8, 2020
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Indeed, these kind of progress charts are the best.
Even if it's little, you can see what's being done
- Dec 26, 2019
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No. Not like that one.
That tells you nothing at all. Almost every single thing there is "work continues." You don't know what's happening, what's been finished, or what comes next by looking at that. In fact, there were many months were those images were exactly the same, except for the date at the top.
Hell, one of the points there mentions "the entire game's soundtrack." It raises questions: How much of the soundtrack was done? Had it not been worked on at all? How much is left?
That image is not only uninformative, but it makes you ask more questions, which is exactly the opposite of what you were pretending it did.
- Oct 4, 2021
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The demo will be release at the same time the final episode of One Piece
I had to go back a few pages and get caught up. I'm just here to say that I can't fucking believe the demo still hasn't come out. The demo that was supposed come out within a day or two of its announcement, and it's been what, two weeks?
You cannot convince me HW isn't just having a laugh, or that the other members on his dev team don't want to strangle him.
You cannot convince me HW isn't just having a laugh, or that the other members on his dev team don't want to strangle him.
- Sep 30, 2022
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I dunno if ya check into the actual updates or not on the discord, but it’s just Frouge who’s not doing so well recently that’s sort of setting some things back (besides testers discovering minor to major bugs in the “demo of the demo”) but Frouge does the compiling for the game, which is like the installing of updates to put in simpler terms…
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I made that comment mainly to see if I could fish for an HW DM. And it worked.
This was fun.
This was fun.
- May 21, 2020
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HW in everyone's DMs pulling out every excuse in the book to justify delaying the full release/demo/demo of a demo again:
Out of curiosity, which circle made this chart and for which games? Always looking for more to play
That's from Hakkaku who made Mission Mermaiden and is actually very close to releasing their new game, Hachina's Ghost Story? I think is called.
It's what the other guy said.
I made a post linking the blog, but someone reported it to get it deleted.
Based. That game looks like it's gonna be really good.
As for charts and stuff, I don't think 'explaining' is the answer here.
It doesn't matter how transparent things are or how much of the game we're told is done, because we were told that the game was days away from full release months ago.
So we don't trust HW when he tells us how done the game is, and collating data and building charts about how finished things are (or aren't) will just take time away from actual development.
No, the only way to handle community relations right now is total silence until there's something playable to share.
Literally not even a 'I'm uploading the demo right now' cos if your fucking internet goes out and the upload gets delayed, (and it will, given the game's track record) then you're just gonna get more bad feelings.
The next post from HW oughta be the word 'demo' followed by a download link.
Then give it a day for people to have a chance to pay it, and then start talking to the community again.
I mean, I understand why it's a struggle not to come into the thread (or use PMs) to try to defend yourself from all the shittalk that he's been getting, but... uh... There's no defence.
Like, no matter what you explain, what excuses you make, there's nothing that you can 'make people understand' that will magically make people stop being upset, because words alone cannot change the timetable of this game, or remove the promises that you should have known better than to make in the first place.
So it's better to say nothing until you have something to show.
Literally tune out of the thread entirely, if possible.
Frankly, the best possible result for HW is that everybody in this thread forgets about the game entirely and stops talking about it until an update drops.
Hentaiwriter:
The demo should be ready soon; not going to give an ETA though as Frouge needs time to fix the remaining bugs in it.
Outside of that, cutscene progress was still slow this time as I finished up fixing things for the level (as the demo we're putting out is part of the full game 1:1 remember, so work on it is work on the full game).
As a reminder, cutscenes are all of different lengths and content density; roughly the same amount of work is being done each week regardless of the actual number going down. Still by far on track for 2023, too!
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The demo should be ready soon; not going to give an ETA though as Frouge needs time to fix the remaining bugs in it.
Outside of that, cutscene progress was still slow this time as I finished up fixing things for the level (as the demo we're putting out is part of the full game 1:1 remember, so work on it is work on the full game).
As a reminder, cutscenes are all of different lengths and content density; roughly the same amount of work is being done each week regardless of the actual number going down. Still by far on track for 2023, too!
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Man, they're going to be cutting the 2023 release date close at their current rate. It's no surprise to me that the bug counter went up, thats expected given they are stitching everything together and will likely continue to increase... however given the state of the fire demo (week 3 of them bug squashing) this leads me to believe the other 4 levels of the game are likely not put together yet, and haven't been bug tested either and while other levels probably won't have as many bugs between that, the 1-2 cutscenes every other week, and the fact that iirc earlier in this thread HW said they need to get approved by steam before they can release it anywhere, if they don't have everything done by early december, it's possible we could be seeing a 2024 release.
Poor programmer has to probably squash some 100+ bugs in the next 80 days (thats the end of November) in addition to all his extra stuff if they want any chance of releasing it before 2024. I don't know how committed HW is to meeting his "definitely releasing in 2023!" motto he's been saying the last year (and given the past release dates I'm gong assume not very) but if he hasn't already he should consider organizing his bugs by priority. Game breaking bugs take more priority to patch then audio bugs or bugs that require extremely specific circumstance to recreate, or harmless bugs. As long as the game doesn't have game breaking stuff on release you can always patch the minor bugs.
Poor programmer has to probably squash some 100+ bugs in the next 80 days (thats the end of November) in addition to all his extra stuff if they want any chance of releasing it before 2024. I don't know how committed HW is to meeting his "definitely releasing in 2023!" motto he's been saying the last year (and given the past release dates I'm gong assume not very) but if he hasn't already he should consider organizing his bugs by priority. Game breaking bugs take more priority to patch then audio bugs or bugs that require extremely specific circumstance to recreate, or harmless bugs. As long as the game doesn't have game breaking stuff on release you can always patch the minor bugs.
- Aug 31, 2021
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They're not going to cut it close, they're going to completely overshoot 2023. I haven't followed FF very much at all. But it is a genuine impossibility for them to ship this game out before the end of this year.
If they have had massive trouble with just sending out a single stage. Then there is no way in hell they are going to be able to fix up the rest of the stages in just 3-4 months time. If they start to seriously want to push the game out then I predict march-June would be the release date at this time. Though I think they're going to blow everyones minds and somehow not have it out even then.
I mean, people hoping for a 2023 release are so high on copium that they should most likely be in the hospital for OD. With FF's trackrecord, I could see them somehow stretch it out into 2025.
- Feb 3, 2023
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Look, there's plenty to criticize about HW and their very small team but context does matter. They lack an ability to properly estimate anything and that should be rightly talked about as concernable or problematic. I'm just not a fan of the "criticism" I've seen lampooned here that feels more like easy dunks and snarky, entitled nonsense than actual critique.
Critique what? We have nothing to critique save for missed release dates and the occasional personal message, that's the major issue. I'd love to critique the new fire demo, believe me, but a month has come and gone and I'm still waiting for the mythical '24 hours' to arrive.