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Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
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I do be a fan of body transformation and lasting changes, if that's what is really going on. I kind of expected something like this to be in game already, when I started playing for real.
Probably not going to be a "lasting change" due to how it would interfere with every other scene she would appear in. The dev would have to make a second version of practically every piece of art where her lower body appears, and then do that again for any other type of transformation or even outfit change that might be added in the future. Of course, one workaround for this is to come up with some kind of excuse as to why the changes would come and go, such as having an outfit that she only puts on when asked to, or a were-curse that only triggers under certain conditions, or a living latex suit that hides under her clothes or in her vagina, et cetera. Then you could make scenes that specifically use the change, but leave them normal for every other scene. I suspect this ass expansion will only be temporary and last for the duration of the encounter, though.
 

CurseWave

Newbie
Dec 12, 2018
25
8
Probably not going to be a "lasting change" due to how it would interfere with every other scene she would appear in. The dev would have to make a second version of practically every piece of art where her lower body appears, and then do that again for any other type of transformation or even outfit change that might be added in the future. Of course, one workaround for this is to come up with some kind of excuse as to why the changes would come and go, such as having an outfit that she only puts on when asked to, or a were-curse that only triggers under certain conditions, or a living latex suit that hides under her clothes or in her vagina, et cetera. Then you could make scenes that specifically use the change, but leave them normal for every other scene. I suspect this ass expansion will only be temporary and last for the duration of the encounter, though.
Speaking purely in hypothetical, I think it would be relatively feasible to have portrait layers as needed (though that is a game design decision that is better made earlier than later in development) to handle body transformation.

Otherwise, giving a permanent 'status' effect is also an option, especially in a game like this where the text carries most of the variations of events.

It's all a matter of scope and decision, really.
 

Float_Fish

Member
May 11, 2022
346
92
I don't think I've gotten that far into the game, is it mostly text, with a portrait here and there for the scenes?
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,743
I don't think I've gotten that far into the game, is it mostly text, with a portrait here and there for the scenes?
Kinda, but there are a lot of unique pictures for different traps and monsters, and the various attacks/effects they might trigger. Some of them will even have multiple pictures for a single attack. I wouldn't describe it as just "here and there", but it's also not like one of those Ren'py games where the dev renders the characters in a slightly different position every two lines of dialogue.
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
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Tweet time:

Wait that's kinda lewd, uh oh.

Frh3aLnWYAENDt3.png
Don't worry, I'll save you! ...As soon as I've properly filled out all the research notes on this threat. Have fun in the meantime.

(Jelly is still superior to slime, though.)

Dev tools that will eventually become mod tools, I presume? Not that I'm really a fan of mods myself...

asdfghjkl That's the worst.

Dungeon interactions! ...Not really a lot to say about that, but exciting potential nonetheless!
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
On the subject of looking through the research log, is there any chance that the Drider's artwork will be updated/adjusted at some point? Going through the list, her incredibly washed-out artwork really stands out, at least compared to the other humanoid-ish monsters. I'm guessing she was one of the earliest designs.
I randomly remembered I was going to comment on this forever ago but got distracted by virus stuff (which seems to have calmed down?).
But yeah the drider is probably going to be reworked entirely at some point. I think I've previously tweeted (I have more too), and RE_Drider1_Cum.json has been in the files for so so many consecutive releases just disabled because I keep putting off actually writing it while knowing a rework needs to happen.

Speaking purely in hypothetical, I think it would be relatively feasible to have portrait layers as needed (though that is a game design decision that is better made earlier than later in development) to handle body transformation.
redoing how I do the portraits (the dialogue ones, not the art cut-ins) is still on my to-do list (although it's not like those show the body anyway)

Otherwise, giving a permanent 'status' effect is also an option, especially in a game like this where the text carries most of the variations of events.

It's all a matter of scope and decision, really.
I'm not opposed to it, though it can make things messy as the discussion already went over.

I don't think I've gotten that far into the game, is it mostly text, with a portrait here and there for the scenes?
What more could anyone need?

Dungeon interactions! ...Not really a lot to say about that, but exciting potential nonetheless!
So many parts with potential I'm wondering how I'm going to fill them all up. Still better than the alternative I guess.
 

CurseWave

Newbie
Dec 12, 2018
25
8
but got distracted by virus stuff (which seems to have calmed down?).
I can't speak for the original reporter, but my Malware Bytes detected nothing in the 9.1 public file, and I think it even un-quarantined the file I put under quarantine while the discussions were ongoing. Seems "fixed" on the definition side.

I'm not opposed to it, though it can make things messy as the discussion already went over.
I'm not sure what can be messy about permanent status? It's already sort-of in game.
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,743
I'm not opposed to it, though it can make things messy as the discussion already went over.
I definitely do recommend looking for opportunities to use "temporary triggered transformations" (through afflictions that are otherwise as permanent as curses). In addition to making it infinitely more reasonable to implement physical transformations from an art standpoint, it also lets people explore the related content without being "locked into" a certain transformation. Not that that's quite as big of a problem in a rogue-lite game where you're expected to constantly restart the run... Still, it's always nice to be able to safely explore content without feeling like you've been locked into a certain "route".

Come to think of it... It would be really interesting if the knights could eventually acquire a corrupted/fallen alternate personality that only comes out when the story/encounter calls for it. Even moreso than physical transformations, corrupted versions of the knights would require pretty much all of the writing to be changed/ignored to accomodate them, but this reduces that to simply allowing new events to be added. But perhaps more importantly, it would be a great way to let people who don't want to let the knights get truly corrupted (me) but still like corruption content (also me) safely explore that content, and could even provide interesting character development while still following "good" or "neutral" story routes as we help the two sides reconcile with each other and/or learn some dark secrets their normal selves wouldn't admit. ...Of course, all of this would be a pretty massive addition on the story side if it wasn't already planned, as it basically means adding three new characters and reworking the story to accomodate them, so just forget it if you only ever planned to have them be corrupted in an ending. But if you were already planning to add corrupted versions of the knights in the game, and were simply wracking your brain on how you could implement them without having to completely redo everything...


(Incidentally, there was no Tweet yesterday. I thought maybe it was just delayed because the update was coming a little later, but hopefully it's not a sign that you were so stressed from self-imposed crunch that you forgot. I'm fine with hearing that there's a delay because "fuck it I don't need a reason", but less fine with worrying about the dev's well-being.)
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
The messiness I'm referring to is just the whole accounting for things being in vs not being in scenes. Honestly, I'm already bothered by stupid small things like the fact that a sequence of
finding a trap -> dodging it -> being hit trying to disarm it
uses the same dialogue script as as
finding a trap -> failing to dodge it
and
entering a room with a trap that has already been found and has since rearmed -> getting hit by it automatically
because it means that small details of the narration might be off like if the knight's reaction etc.
And those details are dumb and small compared to if a character should or shouldn't have transformations applied in a given situation and if those would matter, etc.
Which isn't to say I won't dip my toes into that stuff anyway. There isn't a fantastic solution but that shouldn't preclude the possibility of accessing that kind of content anyway.

(Incidentally, there was no Tweet yesterday. I thought maybe it was just delayed because the update was coming a little later, but hopefully it's not a sign that you were so stressed from self-imposed crunch that you forgot. I'm fine with hearing that there's a delay because "fuck it I don't need a reason", but less fine with worrying about the dev's well-being.)
There being no tweet was more of a "fuck it I don't need a reason" than anything else. I also couldn't think of what I actually wanted to tweet. The update being delayed has a lot of reasons but I don't think anybody actually wants to hear about them.
In any case, I've kind of settled myself down on the stressing about the update thing. I had an original target of the 20th, I didn't hit it. I'm still not all that close to where I want to be, and am aiming for the end of the month instead. Although I have a lot of individual things done, there's still a lot more I want to do and also tie it all together. I did toy with the idea of putting out a partial update but I don't know if that would be better or worse than delay.
If anything, my neuroticism is such that I'm more stressed about the fact that I'm not all that stressed, even if that doesn't make that much sense. I can't not be worrying about SOMETHING. That is just how I've always been.
 
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Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
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Tweet time:

Tweet said:
NRFB: I just can't think of anything to tweet.

Me: I'm sure you'll think of something!

NRFB: Here's the number 11.

NRFB: And here's a screenshot of some unnamed particle effect files.

Yessss. Hopefully there will be a scene about this at some point, though I don't really expect it from this spell effect. Maybe something with the Suggestive curse, though... And hey, the Mantra effect now has a tooltip associated with it.

...Wait, is that just the mobile "share" icon?

Hmm. That looks significantly less dungeon-y than other floors. I wonder if it reflects some specific aspect of the floor, or if it's just completely random that you sometimes end up on floors that look more like a library or science facility.

Status ailments! Analysis time:

Heart... faucet? Maybe that's "Anemic". Possible side effect of getting bitten by a bat girl?

Tight corset. Always a shame when ladies have to hurt themselves to look sexy. There's already a "bound" status ailment, so maybe this is something lighter but still restrictive? Perhaps it's the result of being covered in living latex, or being shot with a clothes-shrinking ray.

Arrows. This one clearly indicates having no sense of direction. Although there's already an ailment that causes the knight to stagger around aimlessly...
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,743
Tweet time (but not update time):

Impish, mischievous cackling noises

Fsa6o9uXgAAX0Pk.png
Her face (and the text) may suggest otherwise, but she's actually saying, "Help me! My fingers are melting! AI is so bad with hands that it's not even safe to run non-AI art through a filter!" (At least, I'm assuming she's one of the ones that wasn't made from scratch with AI.)

when the brain when uhhhhhh

FsgLT9bXwAAiRjd.png
Trying to figure out the logistics of where it's standing. And why it's furry. Doesn't look like any sort of recognizable monster or otherwise identifiable "experiment" that would have brain drain powers. Maybe some sort of ceiling gremlin?

I'm going to (tentatively) say update monday. I don't have everything I wanted to do for the "Experiments" type content done, but if I don't get the catharsis of a release I'm going to have a stress implosion. It do be that way sometimes.
Ah, that answers that question. I was just about to ask, if it wasn't released today. But that reminds me of another question I was going to ask: Is this update going to add anything to the "lore" section of the research notes? I figure if this is a content update with a central theme to it, that might be the ideal time to start piling on the L O R E. Perhaps that's even what caused this update to be so overloaded? Of course, that could also mean it's part of the "not having everything you wanted done".
 

NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
Is this update going to add anything to the "lore" section of the research notes?
Not in this one, no. If things had gone better maybe, but I dunno how much the update was overscoped and how much of it was just all the other external things (up to and including the less reasonable and more shameful parts of me just struggling with getting myself to sit down and write, which is consistently much less fun than programming the game).
Sad part is that realistically I know it doesn't help my brand to admit to anything here, since the line between something being a reason and being an excuse for delay is subjective. Admitting that I'm not happy with the amount I'm outputting just puts it in other people's heads that they can (or even should) be too. If I was quiet and didn't point out that I'm not meeting my own standards all the way up to releasing something, people would probably just accept whatever I put out and ask for more... Which I guess they're going to do anyway so uhhhhh
I dunno I'm rambling but I'm just super frustrated and stuff
 

Rosen King

Engaged Member
May 29, 2019
2,258
1,743
Sad part is that realistically I know it doesn't help my brand to admit to anything here
Ugh, I hate how true this is. I think there are several devs who went completely dark instead of explaining why they had to abandon their projects simply because they knew how toxic people would get if they tried to explain anything. And some of those same devs likely have the same anxiety issues I do (which may have been what made them need to stop in the first place), so dealing with that toxicity simply isn't an option. One in particular really gave me that "tortured artist" vibe, and I think they completely abandoned the game simply because they failed to meet a single deadline and thinking about telling anyone why triggered an anxiety feedback loop.

...Yeah, that's one of the biggest reasons I can't make anything myself. Even though there are a lot of things I'd love to make. The world really needs something from my "consensual corruption" line, if nobody else is gonna do it...

struggling with getting myself to sit down and write, which is consistently much less fun than programming the game
Huh, I would've thought it would be the opposite. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given how you'll jump to answer any questions about the balance or development process, but not so much with any story and lore discussions. The writing is better than most of the games here that use it as one of their only selling points, though.


(Also, what the hell happened to this site and how do I change it back? The font strains my eyes, and some of the buttons are practically unusable and painful to look at. And it looks like the entire option to change the layout has been removed from the preferences page... This had better not be permanent, but something tells me the admins are just gonna say "you'll get used to it" instead of giving a shit about accessibility options.)
 
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NRFB

Hi (。・ω・)ノ゙
Game Developer
Feb 14, 2020
308
678
Ugh, I hate how true this is. I think there are several devs who went completely dark instead of explaining why they had to abandon their projects simply because they knew how toxic people would get if they tried to explain anything.
The game has so much potential for things that can be expanded on that it honestly kind of intimidates me. Now in particular would be the absolute WORST time to quit. There's not really a danger of that happening. It's still just kicking off, in a lot of ways.

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given how you'll jump to answer any questions about the balance or development process, but not so much with any story and lore discussions. The writing is better than most of the games here that use it as one of their only selling points, though.
I'm not aware of any such discussions taking place in such a way that I could or should contribute?
Also I'm practiced enough in writing and have been doing it for long enough that the quality of my output isn't the problem. In a lot of cases I even enjoy reading it afterward, though I am utterly incapable of deriving any kind of sexual pleasure out of porn that I write, which may or may not be a terrible curse depending on your perspective. I would still say I'm "bad" at writing because A) it is something with a near infinite skill ceiling and B) my intention with saying it can instead be that I am simply bad at putting myself in the right state to accomplish it as a task.
But regardless of stress or standards, time keeps going on and I'm still trying to get the update ready even if it's partly just to clear my head.
 
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CurseWave

Newbie
Dec 12, 2018
25
8
Sad part is that realistically I know it doesn't help my brand to admit to anything here, since the line between something being a reason and being an excuse for delay is subjective. Admitting that I'm not happy with the amount I'm outputting just puts it in other people's heads that they can (or even should) be too.
On that topic, I follow another developer that happens to be very forthcoming about self-criticism, and they have been in business for a while (and still are). I don't think it's as much of a brand killer as you might think.

With that said, if it still causes you stress and doubts, you'd still want to set up S.M.A.R.T. objectives for yourself and underpromise/overdeliver rather than announcing stuff that you aren't 100% sure you can deliver.

^ just my 2 cents, I'm just some guy on the internet.
 

Privitarium

Newbie
Oct 25, 2017
82
35
The game has so much potential for things that can be expanded on that it honestly kind of intimidates me.
So I think I said this before but I think you should try to keep the game smaller and tighter, at least to start. Finish your main throughline to the ending so you can feel done, and anything extra you add afterwards should feel more satisfying like you're exceeding expectations rather than like working on a big backlog just to meet expectations.

To me, it's a bit like adding more meat to a good body BUT leaving out the head - the very important cap on the experience without which the whole thing keeps nagging you with incompletion.

Like a romantic comedy that just keeps going, on and on, until the plot is forgotten and the material just starts to grate. Just finish it! THEN maybe give us some sappy epilogues or 4-koma extras of in-between bits or the scenes that didn't make the cut!
 
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