Unity Completed Goons Raid Her [v1.0.2] [The Architect]

[rspkers]

It seems you are not used to a third-party's input on a topic, which my post was (as opposed to jumping in your 2-way dialogue and making it a 3-way).

I had read your thread but thanks for the suggestion. Again, I didn't aim to join the conversation, only to provide an external idea as food for thought.
My post had only one point, illustrated by a thought process going through its complexities. It appears it failed to be clear enough to your eyes, the reason for which can be varied.

At this stage all I feel I can say is that if I was to write a piece talking about the fact there is such a thing as 'temperature', and I'd illustrate it by saying certain things are 'cold', others are 'hot'. I would not be 'all over the place', neither would I be 'arguing multiple points' nor contradicting myself. I'd only be making one single point.

Apologies if I wasted your time, please ignore my post and I'll leave you two back to your conversation.

I'm very much used to interjection. Third party input is very useful when it's within the context of the discussion, of which yours is not. External ideas are more than welcome, but yours isn't an idea, it's a criticism of which makes no sense within the context of that conversation. Sorry, but a single point is certainly not what I've gathered from your reply. Again, most of what you've said just doesn't apply to what I said to that guy, and I stated as such. I'd call it lukewarm.

I'd add a bottom line here, but others have already done so, which is why I suggested looking at their comments as they illustrate my point quite well. Thing is, you took my statement out of context and that's fine. The problem with that is that if you're going to single out something I said and misconstrue it to imply I mean something else, and that as a result, others can say the same thing about it, expect a reply pointing out why that's wrong. Sure, others can think exactly what you said, but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. It just isn't the point I was making, and I think I've explained that. Chalking everything up to being adverse to discussion not only makes no sense considering a reply was given, with constructive argument, but doesn't address any of the arguments that were made. Take care.

 

[The Architect]

This reply is a bit all over the place in direction. You seem to be arguing multiple points, some of which contradict what you're saying, while others are actually in tangent and tandem with what I was saying earlier.

No, the same cannot be said, as the person I'm replying to read my previous comment and made a suggestion based on that comment. I did my best to cover my bases in that comment, which is why people agreed with me. I feel it was fair. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be NTR. What people are saying is that the NTR checkbox should have more function and are looking forward to more of Lara's love route.

"why you think it matters is beyond strange to me" is more than valid because the comment I am replying to is offering suggestions/advice to alleviate my concerns, thinking that if I look at it from x viewpoint it'll solve my issue. So, obviously, the PoV would not matter within respects to my earlier concerns, or my issue, which was what he was responding to. It would in fact, from my perspective, make it worse. Hence, why it would matter is beyond strange to me. I didn't think I needed to explain this, but here we are. I don't understand why you think I'm making a general statement that covers anyone and everyone when it's directed in a reply specifically to someone else within the context of that conversation.

I don't agree with you at all about PoV either. MCs in porn games are not often considered as an "other". The MC is designed as a self-insert. "Someone else" is not fucking your girl. You are, as by design. You are the MC. You are the player character. There is a reason most of these games allow you to name your character, or refer to that character as "you". As such, they are fundamentally different in intent (not necessarily content) than simple video porn, which, by the way, has nothing to do with this conversation. The similarities or dissimilarities of video porn and game porn isn't really something I'm interested in. I'm interested in this game. Back on topic, as you said yourself, immersion is key here.

"In which case no matter how virtual your partner may be, unless you're into swinging, you will not want to see them get intimate with anyone else but your personification within the game."

Exactly. This is what I said in the first place. I'm looking forward to more true love route, and looking at it from Lara's perspective in the current game is the opposite of that. If you read the thread, there are plenty of comments that should highlight the issues people are having with how Lara is written. A reply to a very specific reply to someone else with specific context probably isn't the best of these comments to direct such generalized questions and concerns to and probably won't help you "understand the whole NTR discussion."

Games are about immersion. No other media can achieve it the way videogames do.

However, immersion doesn't necessarily means to project yourself as the character. It always feels stupid to me when games use tropes like the "silent protagonist" trying to force a self projection. Until we have self-aware story telling AIs (remember Dungeon Masters?), no game will be able to correctly respond to all individualities of a player.

This is why I think games are about limited role-playing or manipulation of the characters in an immersive environment. I like the design of games like Mass Effect in which I can manipulate Commander Sheppard to be evil or good, bang a weird alien or a hot girl in skin tight pants, but he is still seen as a character, not some space dude version of "me".

The idea of having a dude main character in Goons Raid Her is all about this design. You can play him as someone emotionally interested in the girl, or someone doing a shady job that can grab his bite of her for fun during the Manor chapters.
Plus, manipulating/controlling the dude that manipulates/control the girl sounded like a fun "inception-ish" idea to me.

 

[rspkers]

Games are about immersion. No other media can achieve it the way videogames do.

However, immersion doesn't necessarily means to project yourself as the character. It always feels stupid to me when games use tropes like the "silent protagonist" trying to force a self projection. Until we have self-aware story telling AIs (remember Dungeon Masters?), no game will be able to correctly respond to all individualities of a player.

This is why I think games are about limited role-playing or manipulation of the characters in an immersive environment. I like the design of games like Mass Effect in which I can manipulate Commander Sheppard to be evil or good, bang a weird alien or a hot girl in skin tight pants, but he is still seen as a character, not some space dude version of "me".

The idea of having a dude main character in Goons Raid Her is all about this design. You can play him as someone emotionally interested in the girl, or someone doing a shady job that can grab his bite of her for fun during the Manor chapters.
Plus, manipulating/controlling the dude that manipulates/control the girl sounded like a fun "inception-ish" idea to me.

Mostly agree. However, the idea that immersion = self-insert was never the argument. Immersion can be a byproduct, precursor, or supplement of a self-insert mechanic of the MC. I also don't agree with the silent protagonist always forcing a self insert. With the Legend of Zelda, I don't think I've once considered Link to be me. He's always been link. And I've always roleplayed him as link. I would agree however, that within the realm of silent protagonists, many encourage self-inserting. Especially faceless protags, where the intent is quite explicit.

Your parallel with Shepard's morality mechanic is exactly the kind of system that encourages a self-insert as you decide the choices being made. Whether you are evil, or good, it is ultimately up to you. However, I don't think this forces a self-insert mentality, as you can still roleplay as shepard, with shepard being an entity of his own. But, you can also still self-insert as shepard. It's two sides of the same coin and is elevated by immersion. Games that allow you to name your character or refer to them as "you" are obviously encouraging the idea of a self-insert mechanic. This doesn't mean you cannot roleplay. It just means the option exists. It also does not favour one approach over the other, unless explicit in its intent. Shepard was almost certainly designed from a roleplay standpoint. It's an RPG afterall, but you cant still self-insert and not have any conflicts within that respect. It's good design.

With regards to your game, it appears that the renegade side is heavily being worked on, while the paragon side is barebones. The problem people are having is that the NTR checkbox, which would be considered the paragon checkbox, doesn't really have much of an impact. Manscout's comment on pg.60 does a great job highlighting this.

Controlling a dude that controls a dude that fucks your wife is certainly pretty inceptionish, but someone else fucking your wife is still someone else fucking your wife. I see that your intention was to make it interesting and fun, but I think the overall impression people are getting is a bit different and more are just wondering why you wouldn't just cut out the middle man and fuck her yourself. Of course, this inception style gameplay element is more than welcome on the evil route, it just doesn't seem to have much business being on paragon. So I, like others, are looking forward to that paragon route in the future. The Mass Effect series is one of my favourite game series ever. Well, aside from Andromeda, but I don't think I'm going to get into that. Hope that clears things up.

 

[Michel Mak]

Games are about immersion. No other media can achieve it the way videogames do.

However, immersion doesn't necessarily means to project yourself as the character. It always feels stupid to me when games use tropes like the "silent protagonist" trying to force a self projection. Until we have self-aware story telling AIs (remember Dungeon Masters?), no game will be able to correctly respond to all individualities of a player.

This is why I think games are about limited role-playing or manipulation of the characters in an immersive environment. I like the design of games like Mass Effect in which I can manipulate Commander Sheppard to be evil or good, bang a weird alien or a hot girl in skin tight pants, but he is still seen as a character, not some space dude version of "me".

The idea of having a dude main character in Goons Raid Her is all about this design. You can play him as someone emotionally interested in the girl, or someone doing a shady job that can grab his bite of her for fun during the Manor chapters.
Plus, manipulating/controlling the dude that manipulates/control the girl sounded like a fun "inception-ish" idea to me.

Between affairs - when You will update the part of 4?
Well - approximate dates?

 

[The Architect]

Mostly agree. However, the idea that immersion = self-insert was never the argument. Immersion can be a byproduct, precursor, or supplement of a self-insert mechanic of the MC.
Your parallel with Shepard's morality mechanic is exactly the kind of system that encourages a self-insert as you decide the choices being made. Whether you are evil, or good, it is ultimately up to you. However, I don't think this forces a self-insert mentality, as you can still roleplay as shepard, with shepard being an entity of his own. But, you can also still self-insert as shepard. It's two sides of the same coin and is elevated by immersion.

With regards to your game, it appears that the renegade side is heavily being worked on, while the paragon side is barebones. The problem people are having is that the NTR checkbox, which would be considered the paragon checkbox, doesn't really have much of an impact. Manscout's comment on pg.60 does a great job highlighting this.

Controlling a dude that controls a dude that fucks your wife is certainly pretty inceptionish, but someone else fucking your wife is still someone else fucking your wife. I see that your intention was to make it interesting and fun, but I think the overall impression people are getting is a bit different and more are just wondering why you wouldn't just cut out the middle man and fuck her yourself. Of course, this inception style gameplay element is more than welcome on the evil route, it just doesn't seem to have much business being on paragon. So I, like others, are looking forward to that paragon route in the future. Hope that clears a few things up. Mass Effect is one of my favourite series ever. Well, aside from Andromeda, but I don't think I'm going to get into that.

I can't deny the 'evil path' has more content at the moment. It's hard to avoid this due to the chapter structure of the game where the girl is mostly away from home.

Adding that NTR check was a mistake because it looks like I have different views of what it means to most people. I just can't see emotionally detached characters fooling around as NTR. Maybe one option would be falling to a 'game over' screen before every time the girl fall into the goons hands.

Between affairs - when You will update the part of 4?
Well - approximate dates?

I try to release updates each month (or a little more)

 

[rspkers]

I can't deny the 'evil path' has more content at the moment. It's hard to avoid this due to the chapter structure of the game where the girl is mostly away from home.

Adding that NTR check was a mistake because it looks like I have different views of what it means to most people. I just can't see emotionally detached characters fooling around as NTR. Maybe one option would be falling to a 'game over' screen before every time the girl fall into the goons hands.


I try to release updates each month (or a little more)

I think the game over screen is a good idea. It'd signal a bad end, which supplements the idea of a love route, or a paragon route. It's a good bandaid to put on the checkbox and adds a gameplay element and incentive to the player to do "x" to avoid something they don't want to see. I don't think it's NTR strictly by definition, it's just not a preference by most people who don't like NTR as it's similar by association only. That said, I think Lara being away from home has a pretty simple solution. MC tags along, and replaces "thug xyz". Having the MC being a potential asset on her travels is a great way to add to that route, while evil MC can continue as has been done so far. We helped her figure out her map, afterall. Of course, that's just a quickly thrown together suggestion. I'm sure there's plenty of ways to approach that.

So yeah, I think your idea of what constitutes NTR is correct, but your idea of what people who dislike NTR would enjoy seeing isn't as solid, which is completely understandable. You can't know and please everyone. However, that's the point of constructive criticism from a developer standpoint and the reason people are making suggestions or comments regarding it, as you gave us an option. Whether it was a "mistake" I couldn't say.

 

[Michel Mak]

I just can't see emotionally detached characters fooling around as NTR. Maybe one option would be falling to a 'game over' screen before every time the girl fall into the goons hands.


I try to release updates each month (or a little more)

The Architect - you say - "Maybe one option would be falling to a 'game over' screen before every time the girl fall into the goons hands".
Please - don't do it - I mean - "option would be falling to a 'game over'
This will put an end to many actions. And at all - this is a game of adventures.

 

[QueenBee]

The Architect - you say - "Maybe one option would be falling to a 'game over' screen before every time the girl fall into the goons hands".
Please - don't do it - I mean - "option would be falling to a 'game over'
This will put an end to many actions. And at all - this is a game of adventures.

I understood that to mean only if the "NTR check" option is turned on.

 

[Michel Mak]

I understood that to mean only if the "NTR check" option is turned on.

I hope so. But the beauty of this game is that you can do (with the NTR too) - she's a fighter, or a coward.
All her actions will depend only on your actions and advice. I played twice-with NTR - and she cut r throat with both electricity and a knife.
She can do anything even with NTR

 

[griffor]

if only we could have a thread without people bitching about ntr on these forums suppose that is just a dream though

 

[HaDenG]

I am playing as low mind-high trust. So I want MC to take advantage of her but keep goons away. But in the last episode, Cara gets abused by the goon because she can't lie. I think MC should get an option to tell her what to tell.

 

[Michel Mak]

if only we could have a thread without people bitching about ntr on these forums suppose that is just a dream though

absolutely agree.

 

[Mormont]

I am playing as low mind-high trust. So I want MC to take advantage of her but keep goons away. But in the last episode, Cara gets abused by the goon because she can't lie. I think MC should get an option to tell her what to tell.

Which goon? the black market guy?

 

[Grinch008]

I am playing as low mind-high trust. So I want MC to take advantage of her but keep goons away. But in the last episode, Cara gets abused by the goon because she can't lie. I think MC should get an option to tell her what to tell.

If you're talking about the security check at the start of chapter 4, she can get past without getting abused, If you make ALL the right choices.

 

[ROMANXXX]

I cant see the characters!!! is that a bug or intended?

 

[Nutluck]

I cant see the characters!!! is that a bug or intended?

Bug since when I played I could see them just fine.

 

[Kingvlad]

You must be registered to see the links

Hi folks,

As decided by the latest poll, I'm focusing on content for chapter 4. I'll still try to add the base framework for a gallery with a couple of scenes if I find the time, but no promises for now!

I'm already advanced on the building of exploration environments but still planning the final scope of the next release content.

Finally, I also have this idea for a new mechanic (Dominance Points) that also may be developed for the next release. You can check how it may work in this new fancy tutorial screen that now can be found into the game:



Dominance may unlock a specific route by the end of the game or (if well managed) allow players to achieve some tricky routes like keeping a low mind girl away from the hands of the goons.

See you soon.

Peace!​

 

[Nutluck]

Nice look forward to the next update, this one of the most enjoyable games I tried on here.

 

[Mormont]

Good to hear that the rest of chapter 4 got the go-ahead, this dominance path should be interesting just don't try anything if you are low dominance and she is high-level violence

 

[Alex Starr]

I like the dominance idea. It will help me play the way I want to play.