arms99

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May 11, 2018
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People who're playing Acting Lessons now are playing a finished game. They're not sitting on that cliffhanger for however long, convincing themselves and each other that no payoff is worth that price. People who're playing Dating My Daughter now are playing a game where the principals are boning. It's a completely different experience and a much more satisfying one. It's far more likely to be viewed positively. Assuming for the sake of argument that this Klaus issue is resolved well, players who experience Haley v1.1 (complete, bugfix) are going to look at this very differently than we are right now.

Episodic microanalysis is a mixed blessing. It's good for fandom because it intensifies interest. But it's terrible for enjoyment.
I never really thought about it, but your absolutely right, it’s a whole different experience when you play bit by bit over the course of a year or two instead of in one sitting like watching a movie. When you play over a long period the characters become more than a pretty piece of 3d art, especially when a game is well written like Haleys story or AL. You become attached, you start to feel for them, like them, hate them, love them. Also, you begin to put yourself in the MCs shoes, feel what he feels. It’s no longer “I understand why the MC hates mr klaus” it’s “I hate mr klaus”.

When the AL twist happened those of us who had been playing from the start, felt connected to the characters, it was like we where forced to watch a close friend die. We felt angry, we felt betrayed and we ranted. However, had I played AL as a completed game in one go the emotional connection wouldn’t have had time to develop, it would have just been some random plot twist. I wouldn’t have been upset; I would have just thought it was a bit lame.

I think it’s a testament to the skill of the writers when those twist can spark so much emotions in so many people. Having said that, I do prefer when these games cater to our happier emotions. After all, I play this as nice little escape from reality. If I wanted to fell angry or upset, I’d watch the news.
 

Segnbora

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,802
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Haley's defense of this teacher sounds like BS
It is. That's the point.

You are trying to convince me
Who is "you" in this case?

Even if she really just gave him her virginity like that, I would still be pissed at the teacher and wanting to kick his ass
Sure. Very understandable. The question the MC should pause for a moment to think about, though, is: what's best for Haley? That's more important than Klaus, and it's also more important than the MC's rage.
 

Freezer14

Member
Dec 10, 2017
288
740
Wow, this game was great right up until the end. That shit with the math teacher is just that, complete shit. Not touching this one again.
While I absolutely hate the reveal as well, might I encourage you to wait and give the next update a chance, just to see where it goes? We clearly don't have the full story yet, and while the next update may not give us the explanation or whatever that we may want, it still may. It's at least worth giving it a chance, and seeing where it goes, as maybe it could turn opinions around. It's possible that it may double down, and in the eyes of some, make it worse, but until we see it, we can't know, and if we don't give it a chance, we never will, I recommend maybe giving it one more chance, just to see where it goes and get the full story, and if you don't like it then, I will completely understand anyone leaving (as I myself may, depending on the follow-up), but I do think it's worth getting the full story first.

If not, I get it. I understand where you're coming from. I've had similar thoughts myself. But given time to reflect and cool off, I'm going to at least let it play out one more time to see what happens. If I don't like it, I'll be done, as well. But I do want to get all the details first. It's entirely your choice, but I think it may be worth giving it one more chance, just to see.
 
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ClaireBear

Newbie
Aug 25, 2019
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I never really thought about it, but your absolutely right, it’s a whole different experience when you play bit by bit over the course of a year or two instead of in one sitting like watching a movie. When you play over a long period the characters become more than a pretty piece of 3d art, especially when a game is well written like Haleys story or AL. You become attached, you start to feel for them, like them, hate them, love them. Also, you begin to put yourself in the MCs shoes, feel what he feels. It’s no longer “I understand why the MC hates mr klaus” it’s “I hate mr klaus”.

When the AL twist happened those of us who had been playing from the start, felt connected to the characters, it was like we where forced to watch a close friend die. We felt angry, we felt betrayed and we ranted. However, had I played AL as a completed game in one go the emotional connection wouldn’t have had time to develop, it would have just been some random plot twist. I wouldn’t have been upset; I would have just thought it was a bit lame.

I think it’s a testament to the skill of the writers when those twist can spark so much emotions in so many people. Having said that, I do prefer when these games cater to our happier emotions. After all, I play this as nice little escape from reality. If I wanted to fell angry or upset, I’d watch the news.
Yes, eliciting emotion is a skill of good writers, but I wouldn't call it skill to build up a great character that people love and then just totally shit on them by writing in a backstory about her being abused (that's what this is, "consent" or not).
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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Who is "you" in this case?
nevermind, I'm just talking in generic terms, not calling anyone out specifically

it's like talking with the TV, consider "you" being the plot

Sure. Very understandable. The question the MC should pause for a moment to think about, though, is: what's best for Haley? That's more important than Klaus, and it's also more important than the MC's rage.
I don't see the conflict, MC will do what's best for Haley always, but he will also seek retribution for that teacher's deeds

The truth is, we don't know exactly what happened, as I said, for me what Haley said was BS, that guy probably manipulated and seduced Haley, Haley may be aware of it or not, if she is aware she doesn't want to pursue that old ghost. Anyway all we can do is wait for the next update

I have no anger towards Haley, as I have no anger towards Jack, which was a legitimate boyfriend and Haley gave her full consent to him AFAWK
 
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Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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I wouldn't call it skill to build up a great character that people love and then just totally shit on them by writing in a backstory about her being abused (that's what this is, "consent" or not).
Was it an exhibition of authorial skill to straight-up murder an important character in Depraved Awakening? To kidnap and sexually assault a primary romantic interest? Because I think it was, in both cases. I can understand and appreciate resistance because this was unexpected, but a lot of minors are sexually assaulted and a fair number of them delude themselves into absolving their abusers. A story that addresses this head-on and delivers a satisfying resolution would be brilliant writing, no matter how unfappable it is.

As I wrote to someone in a private message a few minutes ago, this site features somewhere between hundreds and thousands of games in which rape is a fundamental, unavoidable game mechanic. I'm one of the fairly small number of people who reliably grouses about it being treated as not only unimportant, but actually somehow titillating. For a game of vastly more ambition to take it on — and in a particularly upsetting form — represents admirable audacity.

But now they have to pull it off.
 
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Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
1,802
3,210
I don't see the conflict, MC will do what's best for Haley always, but he will also seek retribution for that teacher's deeds
At the moment Haley doesn't believe she was sexually assaulted. If the MC assaults Klaus, how will she feel about that? He owes her that consideration. A different sequence of events that focuses on Haley's trauma first and the MC's need for revenge next would be advisable.

Also: if the MC goes and beats the crap out of Klaus, what if Klaus calls the police? That leads to re-victimizing Haley and the likely outing of the twins' relationship. How does that help her?

Finally, is the MC really the one who should be pursuing retaliation against Klaus? Shouldn't it be Haley? She's not there yet because she doesn't believe she was raped. Wouldn't it be so much more powerful if she was convinced that she was assaulted and then took her revenge into her own hands? Haley has so much more power and leverage over Klaus than the MC.
 

ClaireBear

Newbie
Aug 25, 2019
87
306
Was it an exhibition of authorial skill to straight-up murder an important character in Depraved Awakening? To kidnap and sexually assault a primary romantic interest? Because I think it was, in both cases. I can understand and appreciate resistance because this was unexpected, but a lot of minors are sexually assaulted and a fair number of them delude themselves into absolving their abusers. A story that addresses this head-on and delivers a satisfying resolution would be brilliant writing, no matter how unfappable it is.

As I wrote to someone in a private message a few minutes ago, this site features somewhere between hundreds and thousands of games in which rape is a fundamental, unavoidable game mechanic. I'm one of the fairly small number of people who grouses about it being treated as not only unimportant, but actually somehow titillating. For a game of vastly more ambition to take it on — and in a particularly upsetting form — represents admirable audacity.

But now they have to pull it off.
I'm not going to argue about it, Ill just get more emotional. For 95% of the playtime of this game I was convinced this was going to be a lighthearted romantic story, and I was loving it, then that gets thrown in, it completely changes the tone of the game. The nicest thing I can do for this game is not leave a review.
 

arms99

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May 11, 2018
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Sure. Very understandable. The question the MC should pause for a moment to think about, though, is: what's best for Haley? That's more important than Klaus, and it's also more important than the MC's rage.
I agree with you, the MC needs to put Haley first. Personally I wasn't too upset by the twist. Sure I was a bit angry at first, but then there was that bit right after when Haley says to the MC "do you still love me" which made me realize that I didn't think any less of Haley because it. Having said that if the MC is to make a big deal of it, if this becomes a major plot twist that consumes the game, then I'll be very upset.
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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At the moment Haley doesn't believe she was sexually assaulted. If the MC assaults Klaus, how will she feel about that? He owes her that consideration. A different sequence of events that focuses on Haley's trauma first and the MC's need for revenge next would be advisable.

Also: if the MC goes and beats the crap out of Klaus, what if Klaus calls the police? That leads to re-victimizing Haley and the likely outing of the twins' relationship. How does that help her?

Finally, is the MC really the one who should be pursuing retaliation against Klaus? Shouldn't it be Haley? She's not there yet because she doesn't believe she was raped. Wouldn't it be so much more powerful if she was convinced that she was assaulted and then took her revenge into her own hands? Haley has so much more power and leverage over Klaus than the MC.
Man, you trust a 50 year old adult into your own house to teach your daughter/sister, you are paying him money, and that person takes the virginity of your fifteen year old daughter/sister, would you be happy about it? you would really think: "Oh well, sounds bad but she wanted it so I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "?

I would be absolutely enraged, if you think that's cool, that's your problem, if the whole story played out exactly how she told in three lines of dialog, it's already very bad, but as I said, I don't trust what she said

and it's nothing to do with I thinking she is a liar or something like that, but she could be trying to protect her brother, or she could have simply blocked her memories of the event, not remembering the details that led her to have the teacher as her first time, it's been years after all

and also, this is a VN, not real life, MC could die and rot in hell, I don't give a fuck, but this won't happen, there will be an ending with Haley, be it running from everything, be it them being accepted by everyone, or be it in Hell
 

Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
1,802
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there was that bit right after when Haley says to the MC "do you still love me" which made me realize that I didn't think any less of Haley because it
Of course you shouldn't. It's not her fault. He needs to focus on his love for her — both romantic and brotherly — and let that trump or at least temper his feelings about Klaus. Not forever, maybe, but for now.

Man, you trust a 50 year old adult into your own house to teach your daughter/sister, you are paying him money, and that person takes the virginity of your fifteen year old daughter/sister, would you be happy about it? you would really think: "Oh well, sounds bad but she wanted it so I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "?
I seriously don't know who you're arguing with. Absolutely no one except Haley is taking this position. Haley's wrong. Haley's a victim excusing her abuser and doesn't realize it. That's the point.
 

arms99

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May 11, 2018
1,031
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I'm not going to argue about it, Ill just get more emotional. For 95% of the playtime of this game I was convinced this was going to be a lighthearted romantic story, and I was loving it, then that gets thrown in, it completely changes the tone of the game. The nicest thing I can do for this game is not leave a review.
I completely understand, it wasn't a deal breaker for me personally. But I would have been happier if this had stayed a lighthearted romantic story all the way through
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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I seriously don't know who you're arguing with. Absolutely no one except Haley is taking this position. Haley's wrong. Haley's a victim excusing her abuser and doesn't realize it. That's the point.
sorry for misunderstanding

yeah, and MC will go kick his ass and we will learn exactly what the fuck went down back them

Finally, is the MC really the one who should be pursuing retaliation against Klaus? Shouldn't it be Haley? She's not there yet because she doesn't believe she was raped. Wouldn't it be so much more powerful if she was convinced that she was assaulted and then took her revenge into her own hands? Haley has so much more power and leverage over Klaus than the MC.
depends, I think Haley would love to see her brother standing up for her, like in many other ocasions
 
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Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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yeah, and MC will go kick his ass and we will learn exactly what the fuck went down back them
And then Haley, who doesn't see it the same way, is furious at him. And then Klaus calls the cops and in trying to figure out why the MC's beating him up now when the sexual assault happened ten-ish years ago, her history of sexual assault is made a matter of public record and the twins' relationship is forced into the open. There's no possible path to a good outcome from there.

This is why caveman solutions are so mindless. There's going to be an opportunity to hurt Klaus. This might not be it. The MC has to realize that. Fix Haley first. Then go after Klaus.
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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We will learn what happened one way or the other, that's up for the developer to decide, if he kicks his ass before or after is not the point, the important thing is that this shit gets explained and that Klaus suffers

And you find strange that a brother would want to kick the ass of a teacher after finding out on how his sister lost his virginity to him at the age of 15, even 10 years later? why do you think they need to reveal they had sex because of it? this is perfectly acceptable behavior
 

Segnbora

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,802
3,210
the important thing is that this shit gets explained and that Klaus suffers
I don't think we need to learn what happened. What difference would it make? It's sexual assault no matter what the details are.

The important thing is that Haley's supported and healed.
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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I don't think we need to learn what happened. What difference would it make? It's sexual assault no matter what the details are.

The important thing is that Haley's supported and healed.
I would like to know the details :cautious:

how we will convince Haley that she was manipulated if we don't show her on how she was manipulated? she will never accept it
 

Petro28

Active Member
Sep 11, 2017
894
1,134
I see some people are ready to drop the game because something happened in the story that they don't like, if we all were dropping stories because of plot decisions we did not like such stories as: Harry Potter (after fifth book), Game of Thrones (after s1 e9) and Braking Bad (after season three) would not exist.
 
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