VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Freezer14]

So i guess you just swithed your opinion that characterizing someone As manipulative Is not a neutral but a negative thing.

Everyone In real life Is Being manipulative Is many cased without described As manipulative.

Haley through out the story till last update has always been an open book to her brother.

Did she thought of Manipulating her bossv's spouse? Yes she did. But also a dude that exploit his position of power presenting him self to be charming Is displaying manipulative behaviour.

Adrianna presenting the data that haley produces in order to fuck her up Is also Manipulating behaviour.

Mc's boss waving the "take care of my niece" card while in a position of power against mc Is a manipulative behavior.

MC manipulates Sandra, Adrianna (to potentially be something more than casual sex)

And so on.

Characterizing someone As a manipulative character Is a negative thing. And yes it equals deceat or a hidden agenda.

Haley has never been this way against the MC till now

You're right. Everyone is manipulative. Humans, by nature are manipulative. We want, and when we really want, we try to get it, therefore we do what it takes to do it. Usually that means manipulation in some way. It doesn't have to be a negative, but it often is. Everyone in the game is manipulative to some degree. Each character represents a different degree. Alana and Lisa are both incredibly manipulative. Diane, too. They want sex, and they don't care how they get it, even if that means disclosing to the MC after the fact that their primary goal is sex, and no strings attached. Lisa also likes that her boyfriend has money. Haley's boss is manipulating her husband, Haley, and MC through various means, and her husband manipulates her right back. Sandra is the least manipulative, but she still is. She loves the MC so much, that she will break her own previously unbreakable rules for him that she never would for her friends, just to stay with him. That's still manipulative, but for a good reason.

Haley may be the most manipulative of all. What's the first thing she does in the game? Teases MC about being weak so he'll carry all the boxes. Then she entices him with food. Food that she doesn't even make. Then come the foot rubs, the sleeping in the same bed. Why does MC do this (besides the obvious purpose of the game)? Because she presents herself as helpless. She acts sad, and in pain. But as soon as MC agrees, she's back to her normal self. That same behavior then carries over and leads into helping her with work. Then finally we get to the sexual teasing. All to make him want her. Because she wants him. Sure, the teasing benefits her urges, too, but it's all to make him realize he wants her. And as soon as she gets the response she wants, once again, she manipulates him. This time, into taking the full responsibility for their relationship. So whatever goes wrong, she's not the one who fucked it up. And he does it without question, without a second thought.

Haley is a fundamentally flawed character. And, contrary to our natural expectations, that's a good thing. She's well-written, and because of her flaws, she seems like a real person. I think that's why most of us like her. But like MC, we also have that primal urge and attraction to her that make us overlook those flaws. Because, flawed as she is, she's still a good person in terms of the story. She's never knowingly tried to ruin anything, save for her boss's already ruined and fucked-up marriage, and even then, she makes the decision not to. She's not a bad person because she does these things, but she is manipulative. Because she really wants something. But she's not bad. Just thirsty.

TL;DR - She's got flaws like everyone, but flaws make a well-rounded character. Just as long as they don't go too far.

EDIT: fixed some typos that I never see until after I post.

 

[apnea111]

Everything Is manipulative in a way in life. Flirting Is manioulative. Pursuing someone to establish a romantic relationship is manipulative since Everyone tries to hide their flaws on first dates. Haley's intentions are clear to MC and the players through out game story until Last update.

 

[ptahn]

As I said before, the resolution of the Klaus bombshell is supposed to take 4 or 5 updates which puts it at the end of December or end of January. The more I think about it the less faith I have in the developers' abilities to handle this topic in a way that this story requires. It is still an adult VN. While I would be okay for the story to go 5 months without any sex scenes in it, others would not. I know that there is no way the developers will go that long with out throwing in some sex. My hope is that if they put in a sex scene with Haley and Klaus that everyone runs from this story like it's on fire. I know I will. Personally I would really dislike MC myself if he sleeps around while dealing with this matter, so that leaves only scenes with Haley (to which many people would object.) Scenes with Haley would have to be handled with more sensitivity than these developers seem to possess. "Sis it wasn't your fault, Mr. Klaus manipulated you, now how about a blowjob," doesn't really work. To drag it out for so long I think will end up being agonizing. If Klaus was just some guy who once had a moment of weakness, it would not take so long to deal with the issue. So he will probably have to be a villain that will have to be dealt with. Perhaps the developers are trying to create another Eric; a bad guy that becomes infamous among players. Maybe the best thing to do is to wait 6 months and ask someone to post a save after these events and restart from there or maybe like in BB someone will eventually create a mod that removes Klaus from the story. I would give him the money that I once pledged to this story. Anyone want to take up a collection?

 

[Freezer14]

Everything Is manipulative in a way in life. Flirting Is manioulative. Pursuing someone to establish a romantic relationship is manipulative since Everyone tries to hide their flaws on first dates. Haley's intentions are clear to MC and the players through out game story until Last update.

Right, and that's my point. Aside from hiding the Klaus story and her childhood-to now attraction and fantasy about her brother from him, she's been incredibly up front about everything. I never implied that she had lied, or deceived her brother in any way, just that she had manipulated him. She acted a certain way to get him to do what she wanted. They're twins. They've literally lived their entire lives together. That's Haley's biggest advantage, and that's why she doesn't need to lie, or deceive him. He knows exactly what she's like, and what she wants, so she barely has to try. And she knows that. You can be manipulative while still being 100% honest. It's just like telling the girl you like that her boyfriend cheated on her, hoping that she'll break up with him. Bonus points if she thanks you and runs into your arms. Even if it's true, it's still manipulative, because you're using knowledge or power to coerce someone to do what you want. Trickery or deceit aren't necessary. Haley knows exactly how her brother will respond to the ways she acts or things she says because he's done it her whole life. He was her protector when they were kids, and he did everything for her. He still does, and she knows that and uses it to her advantage. She'll be 100% honest because she can be, and she knows he'll still do whatever she wants. She has him wrapped around her pinkie, and it takes nothing but just saying something to get him to do it. That's her power of manipulation. Something she's had for years over him.

I don't dislike Haley, but she is very manipulative, even in her honesty. She knows what she wants, and she knows how to get it.

EDIT: fixed another sausage finger typo.

 

[Segnbora]

Haley is a fundamentally flawed character. And, contrary to our natural expectations, that's a good thing. She's well-written, and because of her flaws, she seems like a real person.

Thank you. If there's one persistent flaw in the way people consume fiction, it's this. Haley's flaws — and they're myriad — are exactly what make her interesting. A perfect fuckable doll is boring as hell; least so in porn, which is why people who want one should stick to it.

The writing challenge now is to turn a rather large and unexpected flaw into a worthy payoff. Whether that means the siblings end up together or they don't. It's a mighty task, so let's see if they're up to it.

Because, flawed as she is, she's still a good person in terms of the story. She's never knowingly tried to ruin anything, save for her boss's already ruined and fucked-up marriage, and even then, she makes the decision not to. She's not a bad person because she does these things, but she is manipulative. Because she really wants something.

Exactly. Every single character in this game is "manipulative" by a definition that identifies people working to achieve their aims with the help of those around them. The only ones who we can be sure are doing it maliciously, and even then not all the time and not with everyone, are Adriana and the siblings' mother. (And perhaps Klaus, but we haven't "met" him yet.)

As I said before, the resolution of the Klaus bombshell is supposed to take 4 or 5 updates which puts it at the end of December or end of January. The more I think about it the less faith I have in the developers' abilities to handle this topic in a way that this story requires.

One of the signature qualities of this game has been presenting a plausible case for an incestuous relationship, which (quite frankly) almost no other incest game has ever done. If we can agree that that's a core quality, than a game that treats statuory rape that's denied by the victim realistically would almost have to take a long time to resolve that plot point, wouldn't it?

I've never thought of this as a sex game. There's sex in it, because there's no funding otherwise, but it's a story that has sex rather than a sex game that has a story. If it takes 4-5 updates and the sacrifice of nearly all of one's "Haley points" (as Ptolemy suggested on Discord), then in the end that's excellent gameplay. Is it a good story? We'll see when it's done.

My hope is that if they put in a sex scene with Haley and Klaus that everyone runs from this story like it's on fire.

Well, they can't. No site on the web with hopes of legitimacy will take that game. That's why it won't happen. (Unless you mean a contemporaneous one, which...just no. Haley's a one-dick woman now, and it's her brother's.)

If Klaus was just some guy who once had a moment of weakness, it would not take so long to deal with the issue. So he will probably have to be a villain that will have to be dealt with.

This is the wrong way to look at it. Klaus is insignificant in terms of the overall story. He's going to suffer consequences at some point unless the core narrative is to ensure that the siblings don't end up in a relationship, which I seriously doubt is the case. The focus is Haley. This is her story, even though we're not "playing" her. The length of the resolution is about Haley and/or Haley and her brother. This goes beyond the sexual relationship into issues of familial trust, anger, revenge, respect, and so much more that's strictly relevant to Haley herself. Haley's revenge against Klaus will happen at some point, but it doesn't have to happen soon. Haley has more pressing needs.

Aside from hiding the Klaus story and her childhood-to now attraction and fantasy about her brother from him, she's been incredibly up front about everything. I never implied that she had lied, or deceived her brother in any way, just that she had manipulated him. She acted a certain way to get him to do what she wanted. They're twins. They've literally lived their entire lives together. That's Haley's biggest advantage, and that's why she doesn't need to lie, or deceive him. He knows exactly what she's like, and what she wants, so she barely has to try. And she knows that. (...) Trickery or deceit aren't necessary. Haley knows exactly how her brother will respond to the ways she acts or things she says because he's done it her whole life. He was her protector when they were kids, and he did everything for her. He still does, and she knows that and uses it to her advantage. She'll be 100% honest because she can be, and she knows he'll still do whatever she wants. She has him wrapped around her pinkie, and it takes nothing but just saying something to get him to do it.

Perfect distillation of the character. She's been building to this for years. She's finally got him alone (in an apartment with her) and in a situation where she knows she can emerge victorious (because as much as he might like banging the other NPCs, she knows that he'll choose her). None of the female NPCs with the possible (albeit remote) exception of Lisa are actual threats to her. The entire game thus far is one slow but inexorable seduction. Which works.

 

[ptahn]

Thank you. If there's one persistent flaw in the way people consume fiction, it's this. Haley's flaws — and they're myriad — are exactly what make her interesting. A perfect fuckable doll is boring as hell; least so in porn, which is why people who want one should stick to it.

The writing challenge now is to turn a rather large and unexpected flaw into a worthy payoff. Whether that means the siblings end up together or they don't. It's a mighty task, so let's see if they're up to it.


Exactly. Every single character in this game is "manipulative" by a definition that identifies people working to achieve their aims with the help of those around them. The only ones who we can be sure are doing it maliciously, and even then not all the time and not with everyone, are Adriana and the siblings' mother. (And perhaps Klaus, but we haven't "met" him yet.)


One of the signature qualities of this game has been presenting a plausible case for an incestuous relationship, which (quite frankly) almost no other incest game has ever done. If we can agree that that's a core quality, than a game that treats statuory rape that's denied by the victim realistically would almost have to take a long time to resolve that plot point, wouldn't it?

I've never thought of this as a sex game. There's sex in it, because there's no funding otherwise, but it's a story that has sex rather than a sex game that has a story. If it takes 4-5 updates and the sacrifice of nearly all of one's "Haley points" (as Ptolemy suggested on Discord), then in the end that's excellent gameplay. Is it a good story? We'll see when it's done.


Well, they can't. No site on the web with hopes of legitimacy will take that game. That's why it won't happen. (Unless you mean a contemporaneous one, which...just no. Haley's a one-dick woman now, and it's her brother's.)


This is the wrong way to look at it. Klaus is insignificant in terms of the overall story. He's going to suffer consequences at some point unless the core narrative is to ensure that the siblings don't end up in a relationship, which I seriously doubt is the case. The focus is Haley. This is her story, even though we're not "playing" her. The length of the resolution is about Haley and/or Haley and her brother. This goes beyond the sexual relationship into issues of familial trust, anger, revenge, respect, and so much more that's strictly relevant to Haley herself. Haley's revenge against Klaus will happen at some point, but it doesn't have to happen soon. Haley has more pressing needs.


Perfect distillation of the character. She's been building to this for years. She's finally got him alone (in an apartment with her) and in a situation where she knows she can emerge victorious (because as much as he might like banging the other NPCs, she knows that he'll choose her). None of the female NPCs with the possible (albeit remote) exception of Lisa are actual threats to her. The entire game thus far is one slow but inexorable seduction. Which works.

I was being a little sarcastic about the Klaus/Haley scene. I know there will not be a present day scene, and it is unlikely that these two developers would have a sex scene involving a fifteen year old. Your view of the game is the same as mine, I don't see it as a sex game either. I would not care if it did not have a single sex scene in it. I would prefer that there not be a single sex scene until this situation is resolved. That's my point, although it would be appropriate not to have these scenes, they will still be in the story to keep the money coming in. Finally, Klaus, I just think if the resolution is going to take 4-5 updates, Klaus will have to be a large part of the story. It can't be a single scene with Klaus and the rest be MC getting Haley to realize what actually happened and MC helping her deal with her feelings about it. I am also not sure how they tie her rape to her feelings to her brother. She has said that her feelings started when she was 12 and that she felt that he was her protector. This event happened when she was 15 and obviously he failed to protect her when she need it most. I think the more logical reasons for her feelings for brother would be the family dynamics. I think the only way to make that connection is if the mother knew about Klaus and that is why she does not feel that Haley can take care of herself. But the discussion is actually pointless because we are debating feelings and motivations of fictional characters. The developers have decided where they want the story to go. I think if anything the last update shows that good story telling and logic won't get in their way. I still maintain that even if you take the rape announcement out of it, it was still a substandard effort by the developers.

I really hope that I am wrong. I hope that developers resolve this situation with dignity and grace. I hope that Haley comes out more endearing with a closer relationship with MC. If they manage that I will go back to supporting this story at twice the amount that I was before this update. This was the best story on this site before this update. I hope it regains that status.

 

[Segnbora]

if the resolution is going to take 4-5 updates, Klaus will have to be a large part of the story

Or Haley is going to be a large part of the story. As I've said too many times the path towards resolution doesn't go through Klaus and it also doesn't go through the MC's fist. It goes through Haley. That could take a while.

She has said that her feelings started when she was 12 and that she felt that he was her protector. This event happened when she was 15 and obviously he failed to protect her when she need it most.

Did it specify 12? I glossed over that, if so. But that would be a very reasonable foundation for what happened: a protector who failed to protect her in a crisis she never expected. (People who can't read are going to interpret this as me blaming the MC. That's not it at all. This is still about Haley's view of events. The MC obviously couldn't protect her from something he didn't know about.)

I hope that Haley comes out more endearing with a closer relationship with MC. If they manage that I will go back to supporting this story at twice the amount that I was before this update. This was the best story on this site before this update. I hope it regains that status.

I think Haley will do absolutely anything to be endearing again. The question, as you rightly ask, is whether or not the writers will give her that motivation.

I still maintain that even if you take the rape announcement out of it, it was still a substandard effort by the developers.

I don't love the "shock," but I'd say that I was generally positive about this episode save for one thing: a lot of presentation of the mother-Haley conflict without a single clue as to why it exists. In a release where Klaus didn't exist that's be my major complaint.

 

[ptahn]

Or Haley is going to be a large part of the story. As I've said too many times the path towards resolution doesn't go through Klaus and it also doesn't go through the MC's fist. It goes through Haley. That could take a while.


Did it specify 12? I glossed over that, if so. But that would be a very reasonable foundation for what happened: a protector who failed to protect her in a crisis she never expected. (People who can't read are going to interpret this as me blaming the MC. That's not it at all. This is still about Haley's view of events. The MC obviously couldn't protect her from something he didn't know about.)


I think Haley will do absolutely anything to be endearing again. The question, as you rightly ask, is whether or not the writers will give her that motivation.


I don't love the "shock," but I'd say that I was generally positive about this episode save for one thing: a lot of presentation of the mother-Haley conflict without a single clue as to why it exists. In a release where Klaus didn't exist that's be my major complaint.

I disagree that the episode was good. The pacing was bad, the story elements not so good (why would Haley tell MC about his ex-girlfriend; makes her look bad, hurts him), and the logic was poor (parents leave as soon as kids arrive.) I agree that the focus of the updates will be Haley, but Klaus will probably a large part of those updates if it going to take 5 months to resolve it. If he were not, I believe that the resolution would come more quickly.

 

[ThatGuyWithaAfro]

Let's not go to far with these 'not having sex scenes' comments... I love a good story like the next guy... But let's remember what makes the windmill spin here... I have faith the devs will add more sex without it being ridiculous...

 

[Walter Victor]

Some Members point atF in an emphatic way "ITS HALLEY STORY".

Yes it Is, but the way Last update has twisted the story, and the way dev plan to solve this isnt she clearly objectified?

From a teacher's fucktoy in Last update to haley needs to be fixed in coming ones isnt that too of a misogynistic approach for a "HALEYS STORY"?

If this were a real-life situation, it would be. But this is a game where players can only affect outcomes through the MC. None of us can make any choices that can directly cause any of the NPCs (including Haley) to do anything. Only the MC through us (or the developers directly) can do that.

It is my impression that the developers intend to have several different outcomes as possibilities for this game. So, every outcome that can be happen in this game will be driven by choices that we, as players, will make (or have already made) for the MC while playing the game.

Haley IS broken. The developers have decreed that she can only be 'fixed' by our choices.

 

[ThatGuyWithaAfro]

If this were a real-life situation, it would be. But this is a game where players can only affect outcomes through the MC. None of us can make any choices that can directly cause any of the NPCs (including Haley) to do anything. Only the MC through us (or the developers directly) can do that.

It is my impression that the developers intend to have several different outcomes as possibilities for this game. So, every outcome that can be happen in this game will be driven by choices that we, as players, will make (or have already made) for the MC while playing the game.

Haley IS broken. The developers have decreed that she can only be 'fixed' by our choices.

Not a fan of the broken word... I use to read alot of romance shitty novels... they LOVED using that word... Ugh makes me cringe..

 

[Walter Victor]

Not a fan of the broken word... I use to read alot of romance shitty novels... they LOVED using that word... Ugh makes me cringe..

Sorry, but I'm as cliche-ridden as the next guy. I'll 'break' out my thesaurus and try to come up with a better term in the future.

 

[ptahn]

If this were a real-life situation, it would be. But this is a game where players can only affect outcomes through the MC. None of us can make any choices that can directly cause any of the NPCs (including Haley) to do anything. Only the MC through us (or the developers directly) can do that.

It is my impression that the developers intend to have several different outcomes as possibilities for this game. So, every outcome that can be happen in this game will be driven by choices that we, as players, will make (or have already made) for the MC while playing the game.

Haley IS broken. The developers have decreed that she can only be 'fixed' by our choices.

Yeah, that's the problem with the update. The story is what, like a year old; and she becomes "broken" in the final moments of the last episode. If you go back and start trying to pull out bits and pieces to support this surprise, you're just trying to justify the twist. There was never any hint that this was going to happen. MC and Haley are supposed to be so close and he never had a clue. There was never any change in her behavior at the time? He's clueless, but that clueless? As I remember, she has never been anything but happy the entire story. It was a cheap dramatic trick that was put into the story because their relationship had reached the point where they had sex. The story was a build to that point and once they got there, the developers had to do something to keep an interest in the story (as other posters have said.) They picked the worst thing they could think of that would not drive everyone away. I believe that one of the reasons the last update was so bad on so many levels was because there was no good way to transition from what the story was since its creation to where this past update ended.

 

[Walter Victor]

Yeah, that's the problem with the update. The story is what, like a year old; and she becomes "broken" in the final moments of the last episode. If you go back and start trying to pull out bits and pieces to support this surprise, you're just trying to justify the twist. There was never any hint that this was going to happen. MC and Haley are supposed to be so close and he never had a clue. There was never any change in her behavior at the time? He's clueless, but that clueless? As I remember, she has never been anything but happy the entire story. It was a cheap dramatic trick that was put into the story because their relationship had reached the point where they had sex. The story was a build to that point and once they got there, the developers had to do something to keep an interest in the story (as other posters have said.) They picked the worst thing they could think of that would not drive everyone away. I believe that one of the reasons the last update was so bad on so many levels was because there was no good way to transition from what the story was since its creation to where this past update ended.

You have one view of this game. Mine appears to be diametrically opposed to yours in many aspects. So be it.

 

[apnea111]

I dont believe Klaus will have much story time in next updates.
I dont believe that He will be a center part of the story in a sense of an introduced villain that everything will be around dealing with him or getting back at him.

Haley has been possibly traumatized by that relationship in a deeper level she cant fully understand Yet.

But yes haley Is a character with flaws prior to the introduction to the story of that event.

Her flaws Is that she cant function when facing authority. She cant make the right decisions when she Is emotionally envolved in a situation.
Her biggest flaw Is that her love seems to be based on an obsession and on a perception of things she figured out from back in her 12s.

Noone in real life wants a romantic relationship with a partner with a clear obsession. A love based in the fact that you were always there to Pet her, and so you will always be there in the future to Pet her further more whatever the circumstances.

Thats a base of a twin siblings love. No a Base of a functional lovers love.

Haley was treated like a Pet from her brother through out her chilhood. Seeking attention or protection and excepting him to take responsibility in all matters even when it wasnt his fault. That was a condition prexisting to hers and the teacher relationship that probably took the Pet thing to another level. In present times she acts like a Pet in most cases. Waving her tail when she wants something done. Or rubbing in his feet when wants affection. Or even wanting to get spanked when misbehaves to cool off.

That are her main flaws. She has to deal with them and also with her perception of the teacher incident.

I dont want the MC to continue peting her anymore. Thats the cause of her flaws. Not even want him to guide her to the realization of the True nature of her teacher's relationship.
In order to fix her flaws she has to do that on her own.

I see them Breaking apart one way or another in next updates. Its the logical way to help her become more indepented.

If this continues to be a romantic story and not transformed in a film noir about chasing the vilain, or a thriller about dealing with a rapist at the end of the story haley has to be a strong indepentant woman with an adults perception of things

If loving romanticly her brother loving him for the right reasons.

I was extremely negative concerncing Last update. I still concider it to be sloppy, out of pace and against the way dev treated their game till now.

If dev dont continue to the newly introduced cheap drama line and although the haley's teacher relationship could be introduced in way more logical and solid ways, this still can end to be an amazing game.

If first half of the game was about haley fullfilling her childhoods obsession, without the turning point of a statutory rape being necessarily needed, second half should be about haley getting Over that and evolving.

 

[Walter Victor]

If first half of the game was about haley fullfilling her childhoods obsession, without the turning point of a statutory rape being necessarily needed, second half should be about haley getting Over that and evolving.

Absolutely!

 

[ThatGuyWithaAfro]

If first half of the game was about haley fullfilling her childhoods obsession, without the turning point of a statutory rape being necessarily needed, second half should be about haley getting Over that and evolving.

Ehhhh nah... I mean if you don't want a relationship with Haley, that should be the route I guess.. but if we are all in... I want differently.

 

[DarkSithLord47]

Ehhhh nah... I mean if you don't want a relationship with Haley, that should be the route I guess.. but if we are all in... I want differently.

second that,if things continue to go south with the story the least devs could do is give players a chance to be in another relationship and send Haley packing (even if this is Haley's story),i mean if you went all the way to fuck the story so hard at least give us a chance to change positions...the way i'm seeing Haley now is a broken,mildly moronic manipulative and sadistic character in which i dont want the mc to be in a relationship anymore,for fuck sake (cant believe i'm saying this) but give us Sandra back,she had her flaws but nothing compared to Haley...

 

[mdmnsjs1]

and now thats talked about whens the next update? thanks

 

[ThatGuyWithaAfro]

second that,if things continue to go south with the story the least devs could do is give players a chance to be in another relationship and send Haley packing (even if this is Haley's story),i mean if you went all the way to fuck the story so hard at least give us a chance to change positions...the way i'm seeing Haley now is a broken,mildly moronic manipulative and sadistic character in which i dont want the mc to be in a relationship anymore,for fuck sake (cant believe i'm saying this) but give us Sandra back,she had her flaws but nothing compared to Haley...

I think you are reading too many of these comments here friend, she isn't nearly as bad they present her...

The dev just made us all mad/frustrated with what he did last update...