VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[johndoe1545]

Final Warning! No more Off-Topic discussion, no more age of consent talk, IRL rape, etc

 

[Architect04]

The more I think about it, Since she stated it was consensual I believe it to be a type of grooming. To the point where she truly thought it was what she wanted to be doing. I would guess that her having the thoughts about her brother and all that made her confide in him since she didnt know where else to go. He was her teacher/tutor? If i am not mistaken with that, Maybe she felt safe enough with him. He then used this to groom her to into sleeping with him as a way to distance herself or change her thinking.

I mean she was obviously unstable early, She basically told us that she dated that nick guy because he was a fat version of the MC to try and deal with her desire/temptations. Then I would also guess that this was found out by the mother who didnt report it but made it stop and didnt let anyone else know. This is why she treats her so indifferently, She knows about the rape but maybe Haley also told her about her feelings towards MC.

It was just weird how she brought it up and then threw up walls instantly, Like yea I fucked our old math teacher no big deal, Then you ask about it and she doesnt want to talk about. That then puts my theory into a weird spot, Was she really groomed? Maybe she really liked the teacher? Maybe it was such a bad experience she just doesnt want to talk about it?

 

[ptahn]

In Acting Lessons, Dr. Pink Cakes put in a plot development that at the time received a negative reaction from the vast majority of the posts in the F95 discussion group. I was one of those people. Since that time his reviews have been mostly positive. I said this before that if you play the game over a relatively short period of time players may develop less of an emotional tie to the characters than those that play it from update to update. I also believe that at least some people read comments before they decide to play a game so they find out what is going to happen before they play. This would lessen the impact of such jarring plot developments. The thing is that AL made Dr. Pink Cakes famous. He has a new game and on his Patreon page he describes his game as a story based on fraternity comedies. He also adds, "the general tone will be happy, but if you're in a dark period of your life, I'd advise you to not play the game." It seems that he may be trying to cash in some on his notoriety (or infamy.) Regardless of what you think of AL, there is no denying that most people on this site know the story.

I wonder if we have something like this going on here. I know some people do not agree with me, but I think the twist in the plot did not belong in this story. It was introduced poorly because there was no way to do it well. It was designed to have the deepest negative reaction possible. Then came the flurry of posts here criticizing the turn the story took. As a result there was a lot of activity on the "What's New" page regarding Haley's Story. That generates interest in the story and gets more people to play. People who don't have the same emotional investment as long time players and who are probably aware of the Klaus incident before it comes out (reducing the shock.) Since the August update, donations to this developer have increased substantially. So I guess it pays to put controversy into your story, just ask Dr. Pink Cakes.

I'm not sure what to think about the latest update. I think that the writing was a little better (regardless of typos.) It definitely could have been worse. It could have been all about Haley's rape. I think there is still a huge logic flaw with Haley telling MC about Klaus because she did not want to keep any secrets and then she spent this entire update keeping the details of the relationship secret. Before I played the update i read some of the comments deciding whether I really wanted to put myself through it. Someone posted that it came out that MC's girlfriend had been raped. At first I thought it referred to MC's high school girlfriend. I thought that Mr. Klaus probably molested her too and that's why she ended up giving $20 BJ's in the bathroom. Anyway, it did seem that every time the story started toward getting back on track Klaus entered MC's mind again. Actually that might have been fairly realistic. Just when MC got it out of his head for a moment, it came rushing back.

I just wonder if possibly there has been some change of direction. The resolution of the Haley's rape was supposed to take four or five updates. The first of those updates has arrived and all we have is MC thinking about it. I said before that I thought there were better ways to examine the family dynamics and the origin of Haley's feelings for her brother than to introduce her being raped by a teacher. I suggested a family illness or death. Now we have the possibility of trouble with the parents' marriage. I don't want to play the August update again, but I don't remember any hint that there were any issues between them. I'm not saying anyone listened to me, just that there may be indications that the developers may be looking for different ways to accomplish whatever goals the Haley rape was designed to accomplish (other than financial gain.) Which brings me to Sandra. If originally Haley was supposed to be the victim of abuse that lasted more than the one incident, what if they changed that to Sandra being the victim of long term abuse. That way they keep the drama without having it happen to Haley. The rape of Haley could be a one time event. Klaus could be deeply ashamed of and sorry for what happened; not that it makes him any less guilty, but it's better that him being a serial molester. Haley could come to terms with what happened to her as she helps Sandra deal with Sandra's abuse. It may all just be wishful thinking, but I would like to think that the developers still want people to enjoy their story and don't want them to feel miserable after playing it. Maybe they got wind of the reaction that so many people were having or maybe this was just the story the entire time. It just seems really odd that they would end the August update with MC finding out about Haley (his secret girlfriend) being raped and the September update with MC finding out Sandra (his public girlfriend) being abused.

While the story does not "feel" the way that it used to feel, and maybe it will never again feel that way. Hopefully it will get better than it is now. There has been speculation on which developer was responsible for this plot twist. If it was Ptolemy as many have suggested, I hope that Viitgames goes solo on his next project.

 

[Alfius]

I just want to give a hypothetical story and would like for your thoughts on how Haley (as you know her through the story) would react, say or, do....

Spoiler: Mc's huge reveal to Haley

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Just wondered what you think she would say or do......knowing what you know of Haley?

I'm still hoping for "lots and lots" of sex with her...Lol!!......………………………...…..Peace!!

Lol suicide comes to mind...for Haley

 

[vir_cotto]

I always thought you to be an intelligent poster. I may disagree at times, but after all, people more intelligent that all of us here often disagree on a wide variety of topics. But you can't have seriously believed that the whole Klaus matter would be left behind completely in the dust of v0.55. That would be blind wishful-thinking or self-deception at best. Please tell me you wrote that in jest for its shock effect.

"MC forgot?" Come on! That would be a bigger betrayal of the fanbase than ever was claimed to have happened in v0.55.

Or maybe it was just a dream, and we all wake up in J.R Ewing's shower.

Sorry, but that's just silly.

TBH, I don't really care about what I write recently. Ptolemy was one of my fav devs and after all the BS I saw in his games recently, I'm giving up.

 

[Walter Victor]

It seems to me that this last release gives us a pretty good estimate of just when the next big step in the Klaus drama will take place. The MC wants to go back home again next weekend, to see "some old friends". That would seem to be a convenient time to bring the issue to a turning point, if not a complete resolution. Especially if Haley realizes that her action had a negative effect on her parents' marriage. The step-daughter could come back into play, and we could even meet Klaus.

The unknown here is what day the release ended. They arrived back at their apartment on a Sunday evening. Then a few days pass before one of them leaves with Adriana. The trip back home could actually happen during the next release or at most the one after that, if we take some time to have interactions with the other NPCs, and maybe find out what the deal is with Victor/Sandra. The time back home could easily take two episodes. I would guess no more than three releases to get through next weekend.

So, I think we are getting very close to some answers here.

 

[Canto Forte]

What is all this negative talk of my babe Haley and her resolution to ... get into my bedroom ... all the pointers of a great romance!!!


then the teasing of the .. ahem ... hang on dangle shenanigans::


MC lighting them fires under Haley to .. get 'er goin'



Haley is more determined than ever ... Get over here babe!!!



We can talk about it more civil like ::


I still have my second thoughts ::




OhHHhh ... you bet your tush we're gonna be golden!



Nuff said .. Game On!!!

 

[Robert Monotoli]

It's rather complicated really.
The existence of grooming makes consent rather questionable, as it's essentially brainwashing and manipulation (in certain cases even making somebody naive believe that they are the ones actually pursuing, rather than being manipulated). For all we know Mr. Klaus took advantage of Haley's compassion and used his "grief"/"loneliness"/etc. to manipulate her into things.
The question is "is he a predator, or was he just overwhelmed by everything and carried away in the moment?".
The fact that it sounds like it was an ongoing thing leads me to believe that it was a predatory thing, as otherwise, as an older/more experienced teacher I would expect the reality of the situation to hit home after the fact, him to panic and put an end to it.
There's also the fact that he was her first and I just can't imagine a virgin girl (even if she were of legal age) taking the initiative to console a much older man with her body without some major persuasion or manipulation. The only possible way would be if she were secretly "in love" with the person and I just don't get that impression.


When the age difference between a teacher and a student isn't that great then things can be complicated, as the teacher and student are more or less in the same generation, so they can relate to each other easier. The students often see the teacher as more of a peer/friend than an authority figure and due to inexperience, the teacher can find it difficult when it comes to setting boundaries.

For those who made the choices that got the Victor/MC conversation (which I had to go way back in the game to trigger), I think it's too early to tell who was the victim in a story Victor's quite mysterious about. I lean towards something involving Sandra as well, but I'm in no way sure about that. As an example of letting complex adults be even more complex adults, I approve of this development. People who wanted their uninterrupted lighthearted fun will no doubt be disappointed, but I prefer rich characters.

Like some (not all) others, I'm more upset about Haley specifically because I like her as a character. To me, this is a very different thing than liking Haley as a real-life person. I probably would, because I gravitate towards that personality type, but the manipulation and the selfishness-for-show would also grate on me. But the thing is, the story justifies them. She's not that way just because she can't help it or because she doesn't care. She's got buried secrets and hidden desires, she knows they're taboo (more clearly in one case, less clearly in the other), and she's trying to work out how to get what she wants while also trying to hide from the world. She also doesn't, as a rule (with occasional exceptions), treat people other than the MC like that, which makes sense. She should be complicated. She should be full of contradictions. And she's nowhere near done yet. She still has some major shit to work out — with her brother, with her mother, regarding Klaus — and I genuinely don't understand that insistence that that's not interesting. It's only uninteresting if it's not done well, and no one on this forum has read the end of the story.

Would I have preferred a story without statutory rape? Yeah, as a decontextualized statement I would. But as I said at the time, it just raises the degree of difficulty. Simone Biles can do someone else's beam routine and do it perfectly. But she wants to do two things no one else has ever done. When she pulls it off, she's (more of a) legend. If she doesn't, at least she tried. Haley's Story isn't Simone Biles, but so far it's made incest work better than any game I've yet played. This despite the fact that I don't particularly enjoy incest games, as a rule, which is part of why I'm so impressed; I mostly find them to completely ignore what an actual incestuous relationship would entail, and this one never has. There's no way to know whether or not this was a deformative error until we see it played out. Games are not updates, stories are not chapters.


No, there's another path in which Haley goes with Adriana and you hang out with Victor. Based on an old choice, though; you'll have to go back a few updates. Maybe Haley and Adriana are having their own fun.


Now this is an interesting speculation. What if it's literal? I've opined, based on a lot of reasoning but utterly threadbare evidence, that Haley's seriously lying about her sexual past. What if that's the "story" in the title? What if everything she said was an attempt to present herself to her brother as a sexual sophisticate when in reality she's very nearly a virgin? I mean, she's either had sex or took care of it herself, obviously, as there was no blood, but what if the rest is all made up? Klaus as a girl's fantasy. Jack who never got there, or who maybe only got there once or twice. Throwing her brother at all the hot women in their orbit and insisting that she's not only fine with it, she's enthusiastically supportive of it. We know she's built up a complex sexual fantasy involving her brother and she's been doing it since they were young. What if that's true of her entire sexual history?

Fascinating to think about, whether or not it's the case.


What Haley wanted me to do. Anything else is re-traumatizing her. That's why this isn't about Klaus and it isn't about the MC's rage over Klaus. This is about Haley. If Klaus raped her (whether it was "he didn't stop her" or "he groomed her" or something in-between, though if they had sex it's statutory rape either way), nothing can or should happen until Haley agrees with that interpretation. That's the hard work. Yes, there may be statutory limitations at work that might obviate legal solutions, depending on where the game decides it's taking place, but there are remedies other than legal. All the ragey ones, though, are just stupid. As in: the MC punches Klaus, the MC ends up in jail. How does that help Haley? It satisfies an atavistic urge in certain players, but that's a terrible justification. I seriously don't think it's going to be that easy or that simple.

Regarding Mr Klaus - active or statutory rapist? Since we only know the little that Haley has revealed post coitus I see three possible scenarios: Haley initiated the encounter (exactly as she believes) mainly as a comfort thing that developed into mutually agreed upon sex (in a 'moment of weakness' on the teacher's part due to his emotional state); Haley initiated the encounter only as a comfort thing that was twisted by Klaus into sex (the classic "she was asking for it" response of the rapist, which young Haley buys due to shame and victim guilt); or Haley was completely groomed, manipulated and gaslighted by Klaus into believing she was responsible. The first is the least reprehensible, and somewhat more understandable (frankly I doubt I would be able to resist Haley any time, any where !) unless, as spooge_nugget points out, it became (as seems the case from Haley's after class tutoring comment) an ongoing relationship. Any teacher should know better (my best friend is a teacher and he says they are trained, and cautioned against such things, even the perception of which are an ever present concern). If either of the latter are true (they would be the least interesting options for me) then Klaus is simply a villain and Haley a victim, which does the character a great disservice.

So do we have any evidence one way or another ? Well, most people believe that the mother knows about Haley's relationship with Klaus, and it would certainly explain her odd attitude - her lack of faith in Haley's judgement and the advice to stay close to MC. If so, then this leans towards the mutual sex option (or at least that Haley has convinced Mom that it was a genuine relationship) since otherwise, without knowing any extenuating circumstances, I believe she would have taken legal action against the teacher. Speaking as a parent, if Haley's situation occurred with my daughter nothing (short of what I considered a serious threat of suicide from her if I acted) would prevent me doing everything in my power to ensure Klaus was imprisoned in a sex offenders cell. Because, as with infidelity, if a person is capable of doing something once they are capable of doing that same thing again, and if that happened I would be partly responsible through inaction (and, yes, revenge hate would play a part, too).

Two things, however, make me believe that one of the abuse scenarios are more likely. Firstly, there is Haley's insistence that she can take no responsibility for initiating a sexual relationship with MC. Previously, I had viewed this as a touch of moral cowardice on her part, but with the Klaus revelation some parallels become apparent between her relationship with Klaus and one with MC: Klaus was also a figure known to the family, whom she presumably respected, and both relationships would have met with disapproval (to say the least) and were illegal. If she initiated a sexual encounter with Klaus that resulted in traumatic abuse then I can finally understand her abrogation of responsibility.
Secondly, there is Klaus' step-daughter (about whom MC wonders). Now, it may just be the use of limited resources, but to me she looks, apart from the hair, exactly like one of the prostitutes that Lisa auditioned, down to the mole on her chin and nose freckles. And one of the classic reasons for becoming a prostitute is abuse. If a person is capable...etc.

Segnbora has made the very valid argument that any action taken in response to the Klaus situation should be determined by Haley, and what is best for her. However, I think it possible that she is already taking that action. The actual Klaus reveal, straight after Haley and MC finally consummate their love, seems so badly timed that there must be a story reason for it (actually I think it was poorly handled anyway; IMO the update should have ended straight after the sex so that people could savour the moment instead of, for many, tainting it). Haley has a very manipulative side to her (she can basically twist MC round her little finger and has turned him from innocent brother to full incestuous lover within a relatively short period of time, after all), she knows MC better than anyone, how he thinks and reacts, so consider this. It is Haley who insists on visiting the school, the only room we see is the girls' toilet (I mean who would visit that!) and the result is we get the story of $20 BJ Tina, which Haley later uses as the excuse to talk about her past lovers. I think it possible that Haley planned both uncharacteristically hurtful reveals deliberately (her expression only changes once when talking of Klaus, to a strange smile when she says she didn't tell him to make him angry, implying she had a definite motive) to prompt MC into action against Klaus. That Haley, deciding to have no secrets, has turned to her beloved brother, who was always otherwise there for her, and took the punishments for her actions (as she herself says) to deal with the unresolved Klaus trauma, trusting him to act for her.

In Acting Lessons, Dr. Pink Cakes put in a plot development that at the time received a negative reaction from the vast majority of the posts in the F95 discussion group. I was one of those people. Since that time his reviews have been mostly positive. I said this before that if you play the game over a relatively short period of time players may develop less of an emotional tie to the characters than those that play it from update to update. I also believe that at least some people read comments before they decide to play a game so they find out what is going to happen before they play. This would lessen the impact of such jarring plot developments. The thing is that AL made Dr. Pink Cakes famous. He has a new game and on his Patreon page he describes his game as a story based on fraternity comedies. He also adds, "the general tone will be happy, but if you're in a dark period of your life, I'd advise you to not play the game." It seems that he may be trying to cash in some on his notoriety (or infamy.) Regardless of what you think of AL, there is no denying that most people on this site know the story.

I wonder if we have something like this going on here. I know some people do not agree with me, but I think the twist in the plot did not belong in this story. It was introduced poorly because there was no way to do it well. It was designed to have the deepest negative reaction possible. Then came the flurry of posts here criticizing the turn the story took. As a result there was a lot of activity on the "What's New" page regarding Haley's Story. That generates interest in the story and gets more people to play. People who don't have the same emotional investment as long time players and who are probably aware of the Klaus incident before it comes out (reducing the shock.) Since the August update, donations to this developer have increased substantially. So I guess it pays to put controversy into your story, just ask Dr. Pink Cakes.

I'm not sure what to think about the latest update. I think that the writing was a little better (regardless of typos.) It definitely could have been worse. It could have been all about Haley's rape. I think there is still a huge logic flaw with Haley telling MC about Klaus because she did not want to keep any secrets and then she spent this entire update keeping the details of the relationship secret. Before I played the update i read some of the comments deciding whether I really wanted to put myself through it. Someone posted that it came out that MC's girlfriend had been raped. At first I thought it referred to MC's high school girlfriend. I thought that Mr. Klaus probably molested her too and that's why she ended up giving $20 BJ's in the bathroom. Anyway, it did seem that every time the story started toward getting back on track Klaus entered MC's mind again. Actually that might have been fairly realistic. Just when MC got it out of his head for a moment, it came rushing back.

I just wonder if possibly there has been some change of direction. The resolution of the Haley's rape was supposed to take four or five updates. The first of those updates has arrived and all we have is MC thinking about it. I said before that I thought there were better ways to examine the family dynamics and the origin of Haley's feelings for her brother than to introduce her being raped by a teacher. I suggested a family illness or death. Now we have the possibility of trouble with the parents' marriage. I don't want to play the August update again, but I don't remember any hint that there were any issues between them. I'm not saying anyone listened to me, just that there may be indications that the developers may be looking for different ways to accomplish whatever goals the Haley rape was designed to accomplish (other than financial gain.) Which brings me to Sandra. If originally Haley was supposed to be the victim of abuse that lasted more than the one incident, what if they changed that to Sandra being the victim of long term abuse. That way they keep the drama without having it happen to Haley. The rape of Haley could be a one time event. Klaus could be deeply ashamed of and sorry for what happened; not that it makes him any less guilty, but it's better that him being a serial molester. Haley could come to terms with what happened to her as she helps Sandra deal with Sandra's abuse. It may all just be wishful thinking, but I would like to think that the developers still want people to enjoy their story and don't want them to feel miserable after playing it. Maybe they got wind of the reaction that so many people were having or maybe this was just the story the entire time. It just seems really odd that they would end the August update with MC finding out about Haley (his secret girlfriend) being raped and the September update with MC finding out Sandra (his public girlfriend) being abused.

While the story does not "feel" the way that it used to feel, and maybe it will never again feel that way. Hopefully it will get better than it is now. There has been speculation on which developer was responsible for this plot twist. If it was Ptolemy as many have suggested, I hope that Viitgames goes solo on his next project.

I see there has been a serious case of negativity regarding the alleged implication of sexual assault or rape of Haley by Mr. Klaus. I will be honest, I have not actually realized or thought of an alleged case of rape or sexual assault involving Haley until I saw these discussions we have been having here lately. Either it went over my head and I failed to notice that or perhaps, more likely, I needed more information before I understand it to be such.

Indeed, what is it that we think is implied are just that, speculations at best but it may or may not be correct. But given a number of clues that we have had and which I have not personally made connections until now when I saw this discussion, it seems that such a scenario is highly probable. I suppose we will have to wait and see.

In fact, when the MC lamented the lost innocence of Haley, not until I saw this discussion here did I finally realized that there may be a possibility of rape or sexual assault of Haley. I suppose I did not put it all together until then. But bear in mind that nearly every story must have a conflict and this may be the one. Furthermore, such a scenario may be designed make Haley a more sympathetic character and someone to empathize with.

In fact, that background may well explain her difficulties with her soon-to-be-ex-boyfriend Jack and that it may serve as a plausible explanation for why she chose to pursue an incestuous relationship with the MC. Perhaps she was not comfortable in a relationship with a guy after that experience with Mr. Klaus. But that in turn leads to a question: why did she then pursued sibling incest with the MC? Couple things comes to a mind: she and the MC have been very close and grew up together; she came to see him as a refuge of safety or something. It may also explain why both were cautious about pursuing sibling incest, in that she does not want to suffer another traumatic experience and in that the MC was protective of her.

I do not know if this is substantially accurate and I am not certain if I remember this correctly but I was told a while ago that a most common reason for sibling incest are the family abuse. In other words, their parents abused the siblings and that such an experience brought the siblings much closer together than would have been conventionally otherwise. Again, I am not certain if this is beared out statistically. However, thinking about that scenario with Haley reminded me of that discussion. Our discussion, by the way, arose when I asked a question as a matter of curiosity as to why the siblings would pursue incestuous relationship in real world.

Yet, the problem with this thinking is that I am not aware of any cases of sibling incest in RL that were initiated as a result of a non-family abuse. Furthermore, it does not explain why the MC was open to sibling incest with Haley since he was obviously not the victim, unless he had been subject to some kind of abuse from elsewhere. I can think of no lines up to this update that implied any history like that for the MC, though. So, the connection between the origins of this incestuous relationship and Haley's experience with Mr. Klaus, if it turned out to be what we are assuming now, is tenuous at best.

Obviously, the build-up of incest between Haley and the MC were gradual over the long run in this story but it still begs the question of why they were even open to that at all in the first place. I am not sure how to better word this question.

At any rate, I did notice something peculiar about Mr. Klaus but nothing specific until I saw these posts here. And, to be honest, because I have played Haley's Story in parts as updates went about, it is easy to forget details, not to mention missing the big picture because of this fragmentary pattern, and I needed to refresh my memory from time to time. I actually forgot about Mr. Klaus until it was brought up again mid-way in this latest update.

In my view, a story that provokes a thoughtful discussion on any subject, controversial ones included and provided it is constructive, is a class of good stories. These four lengthy posts that I quoted here exemplifies this for Haley's Story. Furthermore, I think leaving some details ambiguous or subtly implied helped a great in this by creating a mystery that keep us coming for more in order to figure out what is really going on. To be sure, since we have not yet met Mr. Klaus character, there is this mysterious aura with what little details we know about him. Who is he? What did he do specifically with Haley that made her shut down whenever the MC tried having a conversation with her about him? We may find out in the next update.

Finally, I think this entire conversation that we have been having has raised many good and interesting questions that I think the author need to consider in answering or resolving through the story-writing. Overall, I think the story is very strong and it has introduced an interesting conflict, in addition to the other conflict such as the challenge to keep their incest secret and how to deal with their respective soon-to-be-ex's, for which I am looking forward to see how it will be ultimately resolved.

 

[Ragnar]

Here is your Mr.Klaus bro.

Spoiler

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[Holy Bacchus]

That's what annoyed me somewhat, Let me just state I'm FINE with the story and the sudden dark twist.

I get it's called Haley's story but that doesn't mean her and the mc HAVE to start an incestuous relationship, They can still deal with her Jealousy (Sandra, Adriana) & Mr Klaus while having a typical Brother/Sister relationship.

Yes, a game called Haley's Story could be one of a normal brother/sister relationship or even two lifelong friends, but let's face it, this is an adult game so the chance of it not involving the MC and Haley in a sexual relationship is approximately 0%, so I honestly don't understand why so many are complaining about this.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Ohhh I didnt know it was from the same Dev i should have noticed

They're not. Milfy City and Echoes of Lust are made by two different developers. laflare82 is just trolling.

 

[alpharenji]

They're not. Milfy City and Echoes of Lust are made by two different developers. laflare82 is just trolling.

Shit well they do look a bit alike i think

 

[Segnbora]

she dated that nick guy

She didn't date him. She was attracted to him for the obvious reason, but they didn't date.

In Acting Lessons, Dr. Pink Cakes put in a plot development that at the time received a negative reaction from the vast majority of the posts in the F95 discussion group. I was one of those people. Since that time his reviews have been mostly positive. I said this before that if you play the game over a relatively short period of time players may develop less of an emotional tie to the characters than those that play it from update to update.

Part of it is what I've written several times: these are intended to be complete stories. Playing them the way we do is unnatural and deforms how we view the story. The only reason we do is that this is the only reliable way we've found to fund projects. But it completely stands to reason that someone playing a finished game would view it differently than someone encountering an unexpected plot twist, after which they're forced to wait a month or two for the continuation.

But there's another way to think about it, too. I'll spoiler protect it because it's not about Haley's Story, but there are no spoilers for anyone who's played Acting Lessons.

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This is why I'm still withholding judgment on the Haley twist. There's plenty of opportunity to make what happened to Haley — how it happened, why it happened, maybe even if it happened — a way to explore Haley's past and present, to recontextualize her relationship with her family, both in familial and (in the case of her brother) romantic and sexual ways. There's a lot of story potential, but only if it's handled well.

In fact, that background may well explain her difficulties with her soon-to-be-ex-boyfriend Jack and that it may serve as a plausible explanation for why she chose to pursue an incestuous relationship with the MC.

Unless Haley is lying, her interest in her brother long predates what happened with Klaus.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Shit well they do look a bit alike i think

They do, but that's only in this instance because Inceton has gotten much better since Living With Mia and they both use the same Daz model for one of their characters.

 

[Canto Forte]

I am speechless ... Haley just opens up in the opening of a very unusual living arrangement saying that the kink of loud mouthing was strange in her boy friend. That is just about it. This babe has to actively engage the MC to get him on the path to work and living a normal adult life ... all of you trying to tear her down and dirty her hopes and aspirations by pouring all the worst projections of IRL pure hateful speculation is bothersome for any happy go lucky gamers looking for some TLC and great fun by gaming at our games here on this superb forum.

 

[ptahn]

Part of it is what I've written several times: these are intended to be complete stories. Playing them the way we do is unnatural and deforms how we view the story. The only reason we do is that this is the only reliable way we've found to fund projects. But it completely stands to reason that someone playing a finished game would view it differently than someone encountering an unexpected plot twist, after which they're forced to wait a month or two for the continuation.

I know of only two stories that have had two plot twists that fundamentally changed not only the direction of the story but also the essence of the story and in the case of Haley's Story the nature of the story. AL is the other story and in your comments it seems like you too agree that the story did not get better afterwards. So playing it at as a completed work, I don't think makes it better (at least in AL case.) I think it just lessens the impact of what is bad. In the case of HS, even if the development is handled well it won't change my opinion (and the opinion of some others) that it would have been better for this story to have remained a romantic comedy.

Someone posted in AL when the "incident" occurred that it was like Luke Skywalker killing himself in Empire Strikes Back. I was amused by that, a guy playing a computer porn game managing to work in a Star Wars reference. AL actually reminded me of the movie Fight Club. Fight Club is about two guys who start a club for men who get together to beat each other up. Half the movie is really good. The movie then has a plot twist that one of the men (Brad Pitt) is imaginary and only exists in the mind of the other man (Edward Norton.) The movie then shows Edward beating himself (the scene had been in the movie earlier but it had been shown as a fight between Ed and Brad.) The scene looks ridiculous as does any scene where a man beats himself up regardless of the movie. We are supposed to then believe that the guys who witnessed the scene of Ed beating himself up thought Ed worthy of being their leader. The movie then changes into a story about the members of Fight Club plotting to blow up banking buildings to erase the world's credit card debt. So I guess in real life if the Citibank Building burned down there are no back up records anywhere. At the time the movie got poor reviews for the plot twist. The movie became famous. Everyone knew the first rule of Fight Club. Today if you look at rating for Fight Club on Rotten Tomatoes it gets good scores from both critics and the public. Everyone saw it as a completed work, it's just now everyone knows about the plot twist lessening the blow.

 

[Segnbora]

I know of only two stories that have had two plot twists that fundamentally changed not only the direction of the story but also the essence of the story

I was about to point out that you know a lot more than two, it's just that they weren't erotic games. And then you went ahead and mentioned one of the most famous (ESB, not Fight Club).

Dramatic tonal shifts and deliberate fulcrum points are also about timing. The reveal in The Sixth Sense was properly timed; the reveal in Fight Club was not (it should've come at the end). This is another mistake that Acting Lessons made; the tonal shift came fairly late and the big plot twist came way too late.

Spoiler

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I suspect there's quite a bit more of Haley's Story still to come, and if that's correct then it has time to let this play out properly and rewardingly. People who believe that the one and only goal of an erotic game is to bang the designated lust objects will never understand, but that's their problem.

There have been high-quality stories that also happen to have explicit sex in them for centuries. Longer, actually. Why shouldn't erotic games join that body of work? I believe in rewarding ambition, not in reactionary complaints that someone's fap was unexpectedly interrupted by a story. Uninterrupted faps are very effectively serviced by more video pornography than any human will ever be able to fap to. Haley's Story will, in the end, be judged by whether or not the quality of the work was proportional to the ambition of the project, not its fap-to-story ratio. It's not Milfy City.

 

[LP83]

Spoiler: Cutie! ♥ ♥ ♥

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Spoiler: That body!!

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Spoiler: YUM

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Spoiler: Hot Cougar!

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[ptahn]

I was about to point out that you know a lot more than two, it's just that they weren't erotic games. And then you went ahead and mentioned one of the most famous (ESB, not Fight Club).

Dramatic tonal shifts and deliberate fulcrum points are also about timing. The reveal in The Sixth Sense was properly timed; the reveal in Fight Club was not (it should've come at the end). This is another mistake that Acting Lessons made; the tonal shift came fairly late and the big plot twist came way too late.

Spoiler

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I suspect there's quite a bit more of Haley's Story still to come, and if that's correct then it has time to let this play out properly and rewardingly. People who believe that the one and only goal of an erotic game is to bang the designated lust objects will never understand, but that's their problem.

There have been high-quality stories that also happen to have explicit sex in them for centuries. Longer, actually. Why shouldn't erotic games join that body of work? I believe in rewarding ambition, not in reactionary complaints that someone's fap was unexpectedly interrupted by a story. Uninterrupted faps are very effectively serviced by more video pornography than any human will ever be able to fap to. Haley's Story will, in the end, be judged by whether or not the quality of the work was proportional to the ambition of the project, not its fap-to-story ratio. It's not Milfy City.

The plot twist in The Sixth Sense also fit into the nature of the movie, it did not send the movie off into a totally new direction, and as shown by ending scenes fit logically into the movie. Fight Club started out being about man and violence and turned into a poorly executed crime drama. Changing the timing of the reveal would not have made it any better. It would probably have made it worse, "Oh by the way Brad Pitt doesn't really exist. The End." Plot twists are not inherently bad, they just have to be handled correctly. They should not change the nature of the story. Once Bruce found out he was dead he did not go to heaven and come back to life, only to find his wife had remarried......

I'll say it again, I would not care if all the sex scenes were taking out of this story. I could be wrong but my guess is that most people who hated this plot development did not hate it because it interrupted their fapping.

 

[Vojvoda]

hope to see mom in action in future updates !!!!