Segnbora

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
1,803
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In the first quote you were saying how little the choices in the game matter. In the second quote, somehow you're expecting consequences of picking certain choices.
You're right, it's a contradiction. Let me correct myself, then: choices regarding a relationship with Sandra are (so far) the only consequential choices in the game. But even then, they're not all that consequential; they mostly boil down to "will I see a sex scene with Sandra or not?" and later "will I have sex with Sandra or with Alana?" neither of which affects the central (Haley) storyline. I'd expect that could change later in the game, though. It all depends on what kind of an ending the writers are going for.

My overall point — that the core storyline is to get the MC and Haley together, and everyone else (including Sandra) is, so far, no more than an optional background distraction — remains.

So how would you feel if there's no negative consequences for MC by maintaining relationship with Sandra and being with Haley?
Well, he can be cheating on her left and right, hasn't suffered any negative consequences at all, and I'm still playing and enjoying the game. I'd get over it. On the other hand, I'l think much more highly of the story if he has to face his sins and acknowledge that he's been a cad.
 

preglovr12

Salt is a Way of Life
Moderator
May 1, 2018
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If the MC's maintained a relationship with Sandra then there should definitely be some negative consequences for him now that he's with Haley. (And given that Victor essentially threatened him over it, I presume there will be.) That said, the MC's quite capable of being a serial cheater and a liar if he chooses to be, and perhaps that should come back to bite him as well.
I don't see why it'd have to be up to MC for maintaining, Victor could put him through a wall regardless. If Sandra was raped and MC's letting her down, Victor could be pretty pissed no matter what's going on, or he could understand about long distance relationships usually failing.

All that I do know is punishing a player for something that's out of their control would be a fucking joke. There would be no reason for this to be a VN with choices and they could just make it a kinetic novel.
 
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Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
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I don't see why it'd have to be up to MC for maintaining, Victor could put him through a wall regardless. If Sandra was raped and MC's letting her down, Victor could be pretty pissed no matter what's going on, or he could understand about long distance relationships usually failing.
I'm inclined to go with the latter although it may still be a bit too early for the MC to break things of with Sandra because of the long distance issue since I think it's only been a couple of weeks since she started that job.

All that I do know is punishing a player for something that's out of their control would be a fucking joke. There would be no reason for this to be a VN with choices and they could just make it a kinetic novel.
But again, the choices haven't really had much of an impact on the overall storyline, they've just provided different scenes at certain points based on what the MC wanted to do at that particular moment. The choices, so far, are fairly inconsequential to the overall narrative and I don't see a problem with VNs and games doing this.
 

preglovr12

Salt is a Way of Life
Moderator
May 1, 2018
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But again, the choices haven't really had much of an impact on the overall storyline, they've just provided different scenes at certain points based on what the MC wanted to do at that particular moment. The choices, so far, are fairly inconsequential to the overall narrative and I don't see a problem with VNs and games doing this.
I'm not saying the choices should be removed as the game stands right now, no matter how pointless they are, they exist for people to get different scenes, as you said. What I would be very against is Victor getting pissed for messing things up with Sandra when we're forced into the relationship to start. I agree MC deserves whatever's coming to him if he's being a man whore but if we selected not to help with her luggage Victor shouldn't be on MCs case (as a threat, he can still make jokes). Doing so would remove any player agency to the point where we might as well not have any to start with.
 
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Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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All that I do know is punishing a player for something that's out of their control would be a fucking joke.
I'm certainly not suggesting that Victor should get mad at the MC for breaking up with Sandra. It's only if he's sleeping around on her while still trying to maintain a relationship — which (if he's still in the relationship) he now has, no matter what choices you made with the other NPCs — that would lead to consequences.
 
Dec 29, 2018
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I have a few questions for Haley fans.

How do you feel about the way that Haley treated Jack? Do you think how Haley treats her previous boyfriends will be any indication of how she treats her next boyfriend?

Do you believe the saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater"? Do you think that Haley will cheat on her brother the way that she cheated on Jack? Do you think that her brother will cheat on Haley the way that he cheated on Sandra?

After Haley learns that Adrianna's husband has been cheating on her, Haley says "Normally I'd feel sorry for her. But, fuck it! No one deserves it more." Does this mean that Haley thinks that Jack deserves to be cheated on? How about Sandra, does she also deserve to be cheated on?

How much psychological damage will Sandra suffer when she finds out that the guy she finally trusted enough to be intimate with was cheating on her with his own sister, someone who Sandra had also trusted and considered to be a friend of hers?

Why didn't Haley and her brother simply break up with the people they are dating? Why did they continue to lead them on and take advantage of them?

At $5 a blowjob, how many Johns did Haley have to stand lookout for in order to raise the money for their Metallica tickets? Was Tina past the age of consent when Haley was helping pimp her out to high school students? Did Haley check the IDs of those kids to make sure no underage students were involved in this illegal prostitution racket? Did this story of her past change your opinion of her at all?

And here's the big question, why would anyone ever want to choose Haley over Sandra? Sandra is honest, kind, successful, and drop dead gorgeous. Haley is a known cheat and a liar who betrays those that trust her, ridicules them behind their backs, and has shown no remorse for any of it. Is it because she smells like lilacs? Because that's the only thing I've seen in the game that motivates the main character to hook up with Haley.
 

Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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How do you feel about the way that Haley treated Jack? Do you think how Haley treats her previous boyfriends will be any indication of how she treats her next boyfriend?
I think it makes her a more complex character. Erotic games present a grossly unrealistic view of how easy it is to have incestuous sex. We've spent the entirety of this story (thus far) watching Haley work herself up to it, and she's been struggling with her urges for at least a decade. It sucks for Jack, yes. It's going to suck for Sandra, too. It's probably going to suck for their parents, if they find out. That all seems right and proper. It should suck. Both of the twins have acted poorly in various ways and at various times. They're doing something taboo and socially unacceptable and it shouldn't be easy.

And no to the second question. She's only ever truly wanted one man. I'm ignoring the next set of questions because I've already answered them here.

After Haley learns that Adrianna's husband has been cheating on her, Haley says "Normally I'd feel sorry for her. But, fuck it! No one deserves it more." Does this mean that Haley thinks that Jack deserves to be cheated on? How about Sandra, does she also deserve to be cheated on?
One situation doesn't apply to the other. Adriana's husband does in fact deserve being cuckolded, or at least he's earned it as one possible retaliation among many. Haley expresses mild remorse over Jack, but then she's never expressed more than mild interest in him, so "tepid" is correctly proportional. Jack is her version of Sandra; a holding pattern until she's ready to accept what she actually wants.

Sandra, of course, does not deserve to be cheated on, and as I've repeatedly said for months in this thread — and again only a few posts above this one — I hope the MC will have to face what he's done if he's tried to maintain a relationship with Sandra while fucking other women, including his sister. The threat from Victor makes it eminently clear that the writers have already thought about this.

How much psychological damage will Sandra suffer when she finds out that the guy she finally trusted enough to be intimate with was cheating on her with his own sister, someone who Sandra had also trusted and considered to be a friend of hers?
I would hope a lot, even though it'll suck for her. Which, I would also hope, would then be transferred to showing the MC just what a jerk he'd been via consequences.

Why didn't Haley and her brother simply break up with the people they are dating? Why did they continue to lead them on and take advantage of them?
Because love and sexual attraction aren't program code and people make regrettable and sometimes unforgivable mistakes. Again, greater character complexity. One can want the twins to have sex and logically recognize that there's an enormous amount of wrongness in the relationship. I see no sign that this story is shying away from an acknowledgment of that wrongness.

The blowjob questions are dumb. Kids do stupid things. I know you were a paragon of virtue and intricately thought-out ethics and morality when you were 15-18, but your sainthood is hard for the rest of us to live up to.

And here's the big question, why would anyone ever want to choose Haley over Sandra? Sandra is honest, kind, successful, and drop dead gorgeous. Haley is a known cheat and a liar who betrays those that trust her, ridicules them behind their backs, and has shown no remorse for any of it. Is it because she smells like lilacs? Because that's the only thing I've seen in the game that motivates the main character to hook up with Haley.
Because they're more attracted to her (I don't mean physically), which is the same reason anyone chooses one person over another. Sandra is gorgeous and loyal, sexually repressed, comes with an overstuffed valise of hangups, and generally boring. She's also not geographically available. I can identify many reasons to want to be with Sandra and even more not to, but if her positives outweighed her negatives it's possible I'd choose her over Haley. Despite the prehensile braid. And, by the way, Haley was showing plenty of remorse in the most recent update. In which she's still trying to find ways to avoid disrupting reality by continuing charades and unfaithful relationships, which is probably going to (and should) bite her in the ass.

Characters aren't avatars for moral perfection. Whenever they are they're boring as fuck unless their name's Aragorn. Haley's incredibly flawed. So is the MC. Those are positives in terms of narrative, not negatives.

Easiest exam ever.
 
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laflare82

Active Member
Dec 24, 2018
978
918
I have a few questions for Haley fans.

How do you feel about the way that Haley treated Jack? Do you think how Haley treats her previous boyfriends will be any indication of how she treats her next boyfriend?

Do you believe the saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater"? Do you think that Haley will cheat on her brother the way that she cheated on Jack? Do you think that her brother will cheat on Haley the way that he cheated on Sandra?

After Haley learns that Adrianna's husband has been cheating on her, Haley says "Normally I'd feel sorry for her. But, fuck it! No one deserves it more." Does this mean that Haley thinks that Jack deserves to be cheated on? How about Sandra, does she also deserve to be cheated on?

How much psychological damage will Sandra suffer when she finds out that the guy she finally trusted enough to be intimate with was cheating on her with his own sister, someone who Sandra had also trusted and considered to be a friend of hers?

Why didn't Haley and her brother simply break up with the people they are dating? Why did they continue to lead them on and take advantage of them?

At $5 a blowjob, how many Johns did Haley have to stand lookout for in order to raise the money for their Metallica tickets? Was Tina past the age of consent when Haley was helping pimp her out to high school students? Did Haley check the IDs of those kids to make sure no underage students were involved in this illegal prostitution racket? Did this story of her past change your opinion of her at all?

And here's the big question, why would anyone ever want to choose Haley over Sandra? Sandra is honest, kind, successful, and drop dead gorgeous. Haley is a known cheat and a liar who betrays those that trust her, ridicules them behind their backs, and has shown no remorse for any of it. Is it because she smells like lilacs? Because that's the only thing I've seen in the game that motivates the main character to hook up with Haley.
Oh my God I love you no homo but your comment is superb (y) :giggle::ROFLMAO: your the 3rd person out of the horde of incest lovers that actually have a train of thought instead of a fetish driving force:love: as I said before no homo I personally have a distaste for incest been playing this game God knows how long but after the incest started a few updates ago I gave up on this game I do check comments every new update to see if Dev decided to keep me the MC the fuq away from that manipulative, cheating, lieing, backstabbing, whoreish evil twin sister of mines.
 
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laflare82

Active Member
Dec 24, 2018
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Dont worry I won't reply how you expect me to so you can report. I know what I said was a low blow but heathen you will not get me flagged, I've already caught a ban for replying from some such as yourself won't happen again.
 
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Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
25,255
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You are very conveniently ignoring the fact that the game gave the player dozens of choices in how the player character acted towards Sandra and Haley. These choices affected how close the characters were to one another, then the game ignored all of that. While it was optimistic for players to hope for a Sandra path, it was not in any way shape or form unreasonable to expect the game to have two branching paths once all of those choices were given to the players. So your examples are all very poor.

Imagine that you are looking for a place to eat, and you see a restaurant named Luigi's Spaghetti. You think to yourself that it could be worth a try, so you go inside. You sit down and are handed a menu that has more options than just spaghetti. You're surprised to see you favourite dish on the menu and order that instead. A while later, the the waiter brings you spaghetti. You are disappointed and confused as to why you were offered a choice, only to have that choice be completely disregarded. You complain to the waiter and they respond by saying "Hey dumbass didn't you see the sign that said Luigi's Spaghetti? You must be some sort of lunatic to expect to avoid eating spaghetti here." So you try the meal you've been given, and the noodles are cold and undercooked, the sauce tastes off, and it's just an awful meal. That's what this game is like.

Why put dozens of choices into a game, then force everyone down the same path regardless of what they choose? Seriously, there are minimal differences in the overall story between Haley and her brother. It's stuff like you spank her bare bottom instead of spanking her while she wears underwear. Sure, the pointless side characters have choices that affect them, but the main focus of the game is a shallow straight forward run of the mill incest story. The harder you try to turn the player character into a decent human being, the more of a spineless cheating coward he becomes. It's an awful game. Either the developers had two routes planned and just gave up on it, or they never intended to have any of those choices matter and only put them in the game it give the illusion of depth to a game that has none.
I think that's what put me on the indifferent path with this game.

I played through aiming all my choices at Sandra, she's my fave, the choices are there they are going to matter, right?

No, they didn't.

So I thought i'd done something wrong and followed the guide. I did all the options that gave + points to Sandra and avoided getting any points for Haley.

Surely now things will be different?

Nope, not in the slightest.

The worst part to it is the weak defense some people have with the "but it's called Haley's Story" .... plenty of games out there with a named title but have branching paths. Melody to name but one. They story is about her but there are 3 other love interests that have paths and endings.

It didn't make me think much of the MC either. The devs decided to make Sandra one of the nices tpeople i've seen in a VN. She's had it hard and just wants love, goes out of her way to look after the guy when he's ill, puts herself out of her comfort zone to make him happy and he fucks around behind her back and complains about her.

I'm not sure what the devs aims were with this game but so far the only person in it that deserves a happy ending is the one girl that isn't going to get it.

Haley is a mental midget that needs serious therapy time, MC is a complete dick and the boss lady is the poster child for dysfunctional marriages.

I started off loving this. It was lighthearted, fun and had a good bit of humour then it just all went Pete Tong for me.
 

ZTex

Engaged Member
Apr 3, 2019
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4,185
It didn't make me think much of the MC either. The devs decided to make Sandra one of the nices tpeople i've seen in a VN. She's had it hard and just wants love, goes out of her way to look after the guy when he's ill, puts herself out of her comfort zone to make him happy and he fucks around behind her back and complains about her.

I'm not sure what the devs aims were with this game but so far the only person in it that deserves a happy ending is the one girl that isn't going to get it.
She still might get a happy ending. I'm juding this based on Ptolemy's other stories because they're mostly the same with a change of setting. (Alexandra comes directly to mind here)
There's also the ending sequence of the 0.60 if you are maxed Sandra and Haley where the MC and Haley say they'll look for a way to make it work for all of them.
 
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Segnbora

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2017
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Sandra will get an ending. This is pure guesswork on my part, but I think she will.

Just because the story runs through the MC and Haley doesn't mean the story ends that way. Luke didn't kill the bad guy. Frodo failed. Haley might not end up with her brother.
 

ptahn

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
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I dont find any logical arguements refering and comparing to AL.

AL Is the highest rated adult game ever. The turn of events in AL turned it from a great game to a unique masterpiece. It was a turn of events that was shocking and Hurtfull but all the clues leading to it or justifying it where Already scripted in the story. It tested the players-spectators feelings to the extreme, but not common sense or logic. Because it was a PLAUSIBLE event.
I have been very vocal in my denunciation of what has occurred in Haley's Story. My disagreement with you is the quality of AL. Same as HS it was very highly rated before "the event." Same as HS the update with "the event" was widely criticized for the plot twist. Same as AL, HS still gets a lot of praise even after a poorly executed change in story. I have already said that the twist made more sense in AL because it was already a drama. However I believe you put the story on a pedestal that it does not deserve.

It has been over a year since I played AL, but from what I remember (warning spoilers ahead in the following paragraph):
Nurse Ratched (sorry, I don't remember her name) falls madly in love with MC while he is in a coma. Even though he has very little interaction with her she develops a fatal attraction. So she herself tells MC about Megan's visit and when MC can't track Megan down, Nurse Ratched (referred to as NR from now on) gives MC Megan's phone number. Apparently the hospital is really short staffed because NR handles both patients in their rooms and chemotherapy. I'm not a doctor, but I know that patients receiving chemo are tested frequently to monitor things like white blood cell count and so the fact the Liam was not actually receiving his treatment would probably have been revealed. Megan is working as an actress in what appears to be little more than community theater, and not even getting big roles. Yet she gets the opportunity to audition to star in a major motion picture in the lead role. Unfortunately the person who has the final say in whether or not she gets the role is MC's ex-girlfriend, that's quite the coincidence. I could go on but what's the point.

Until "the event" I was a fan of AL. What was great about AL was the relationships among the characters. There were three people who were "broken" for different reasons. Their growing relationships with each other allowed them to begin to heal and to start to find some happiness. AL goes from a story about developing relationships and people finding salvation to Fatal Attraction mixed with a study in depression. AL changed the way a play these games. I now prefer to play a romance route rather than a harem route. AL was great not because the story was great but because the relationships were great. In the end Dr. Pink Cakes destroyed his own story. While I'm at it, I don't care to much for his new story. Have you noticed that almost every character in the new story is in a relationship but not a single character is faithful to their relationship, not even the "good" characters? Maya is willing to prostitute herself based on A RUMOR that if she gets into the sorority her school will be paid for. Why doesn't she ask Sage if the rumor is true? Sorry, now I am way off topic.

In the end it's all a matter of opinion. You liked AL, I did to a point. In a previous post I mentioned how a poster in AL's discussion managed to work in a Star Wars reference. I believe it was Segnbora who was able to make a Tolkien reference, I will go for the nerd trifecta by making a superhero reference. I would only rate Endgame a 4.5 or 5 out of ten for all the problems with that story. Endgame is over 90% for both critics and audience ratings so I guess my opinions are not necessarily mainstream. My disappointment is that Dr. PC. has the ability to create a better story than he has. My disappointment with HS is that it was a better story than it now is.
 
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magus448

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2018
1,348
1,199
Sandra will get an ending. This is pure guesswork on my part, but I think she will.

Just because the story runs through the MC and Haley doesn't mean the story ends that way. Luke didn't kill the bad guy. Frodo failed. Haley might not end up with her brother.
Well she seems to be the only one so far besides Haley who doesn't want to just be fuck buddies or a one night stand with the mc like the others.
 
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ptahn

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
912
1,925
You are very conveniently ignoring the fact that the game gave the player dozens of choices in how the player character acted towards Sandra and Haley. These choices affected how close the characters were to one another, then the game ignored all of that. While it was optimistic for players to hope for a Sandra path, it was not in any way shape or form unreasonable to expect the game to have two branching paths once all of those choices were given to the players. So your examples are all very poor.

Imagine that you are looking for a place to eat, and you see a restaurant named Luigi's Spaghetti. You think to yourself that it could be worth a try, so you go inside. You sit down and are handed a menu that has more options than just spaghetti. You're surprised to see you favourite dish on the menu and order that instead. A while later, the the waiter brings you spaghetti. You are disappointed and confused as to why you were offered a choice, only to have that choice be completely disregarded. You complain to the waiter and they respond by saying "Hey dumbass didn't you see the sign that said Luigi's Spaghetti? You must be some sort of lunatic to expect to avoid eating spaghetti here." So you try the meal you've been given, and the noodles are cold and undercooked, the sauce tastes off, and it's just an awful meal. That's what this game is like.

Why put dozens of choices into a game, then force everyone down the same path regardless of what they choose? Seriously, there are minimal differences in the overall story between Haley and her brother. It's stuff like you spank her bare bottom instead of spanking her while she wears underwear. Sure, the pointless side characters have choices that affect them, but the main focus of the game is a shallow straight forward run of the mill incest story. The harder you try to turn the player character into a decent human being, the more of a spineless cheating coward he becomes. It's an awful game. Either the developers had two routes planned and just gave up on it, or they never intended to have any of those choices matter and only put them in the game it give the illusion of depth to a game that has none.
I really do get what you are saying, but I have to agree with what others are saying that it's the nature of the medium. I can't remember how many times that I have played a game and been forced into a relationship that I don't want to be in. Being A Dik comes to mind since I just referenced it in my last post. I'm not a developer, but it seems to me that a story must more or less follow a straight line. In this story it made sense to start a relationship with Sandra as MC had not started exploring his feelings for Haley. I think that if at some point early in the game MC made a choice between Haley and Sandra, the developers would be forced to create two increasingly divergent story lines. Each update would either consist of almost no content for the two stories, be few and far between in number, or be updates that focused on just one story line. Sorry, but I am not really knowledgeable about game mechanics so correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that a choice like the one you want to make generally comes toward the end of a game where diverging story lines do not go on for very long. Since this is Haley's Story if one relationship was going to end early, it would have had to have been the one with Sandra. It's also the case that for some players this is a sex novel. There has to be sex scenes available early in the story. The relationship with Sandra allow MC to have sex while not being the type of person who slept with everything that moved.
 
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Walter Victor

Forum Fanatic
Dec 27, 2017
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She still might get a happy ending. I'm juding this based on Ptolemy's other stories because they're mostly the same with a change of setting. (Alexandra comes directly to mind here)
Sandra will get an ending. This is pure guesswork on my part, but I think she will.
There is also the possibility that Sandra will become the 'beard', since Ptolemy IS involved in this game, and that's how his first game (Dreaming of Dana) wound up resolving the incest problem.

Think of it. There are two individuals that have relationship points maintained in this game - Haley and Sandra. This (along with individual choices) is exactly the mechanism that was used for the beard selection in Dreaming of Dana.
 
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