VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[apnea111]

Well,

I am one of those who strongly critisized the content of Last updates. But Besides that..

HS story Is a Well above average story.
Ptolemy has Some distinctive characteristics As a developer that are appealing to many. (also to me)

Story based vns. No grind. Solid visuals. Constant updates. No endless subbranching to numerous Lis where you get lost having to play a game again and again to see all content.

Also has other distinctive char that probably arent so appealing. And probably the reason he Never achieved till now a Dev status equal to isctor or phillygames or drp.

Dividing his efforts through several projects. Note that Last updates werent only problematic contentwise for Some of us but also at the Technical side. If wrong rendering, or missing branching scenes isnt an indication of sloppiness i dont know what Is.

During the period the shitstorm occured in this thread ptolemy was developing or codeveloping 5 Games. Alexandra and ir, HS, LikeBlondes New game and superwriters game at the same time. Gamesglory who Is a True workhorse in rendering was also envolved at lexis story at the same time. Its a problematic plan from Start in my opinion and I believe that Is truelly the case since likesblondes New game Is kinda onhold atm and superwriter Is now Dev his game on his own.

Another distinctive char Is sex scenes. Besides the universal fact that all first time sex scenes between prot in ptolemys Games are always problematic (either wont fit, wont get an erection, or a rape case Is revealed just after), always the sex scenes are lacking.

I usually dont pay much attention to commercial succes As an Index. HS Is indeed gaining suport in Last updates. But at the same time likesblondes Is Loosing and ptolemy Is stable. This Is the way he works. Having a stable dedicated fanbase who Is constantly devided between his projects. The same way he Is devided between his projects. Either he prioritizes one proj against another or abandones one to Start another his fanbase behaves the same way. Either 5 or 3 Games at the same time always adding about 800-900 supporters.

HS Is in my opinion even now the best of Games ptolemy Is envolved. But far away from a 4,5/5 game or a masterpiece. It could probably be but it isnt. And haley being raped or the tonal Swift of the story isnt the cause.

Great Dev invest all their time, money and love to unique projects. Ptolemy isnt.

 

[LazyName]

No, again! Sandra's OCD is an imperative element, that is caused by the abuse of her mother. Sandra's experience may be essential to the resolution of the plot. If so, it was planned from the beginning.

I guess what we can conclude is that people who play the game in an unfinished state month after month are getting the wrong idea of the narrative and thats why they're upset!

 

[preglovr12]

If so, it was planned from the beginning.

I don't think anything in this game was planned from the beginning, it certainly doesn't feel that way. Vitt and Ptolemy fighting over what happens with Klaus means there's seemingly less planning than you assume. Yes, I'm assuming your level of assumption.

Speak for yourself!

Wasn't talking about you so I'm not sure what your point is.

that can't really be tied to whether people binged the game or played every release on the month.

Only if you completely misunderstood what I said. I said in this thread forever ago that the people playing from the start will likely have a much stronger reaction, good or bad, than people that play in a day. I know people differ, but that's just how people work. That'ts the point I'm making and ptahn was making as well before you decided to call it a pointless argument (which it isn't, were talking about it right now and you seem to agree with me and him that binging is different).

My over arching point is that i'm aware there are differences in opinion and i like talking about them but i dont like talking about how different opinions were formed due to certain circumstances.

Why? It's just as valid a conversation as anything else. In fact, it adds much needed context. Would you go watch a movie someone recommended that you know was on their phone the whole time over a recommendation from a cinephile friend that told you not to see it?

 

[Segnbora]

Fine.

I abandoned this thread (to those whose arguments I just dropped with response, I apologize; my judgement that I was wasting my time wasn't necessarily about you) a month ago? More? Less? Because it was just the same boring arguments over and over, none of which amounted to anything more interesting that "I like it"/"I don't like it." That's an utterly worthless debate, though obviously (as someone who's been arguing online since 1986) I understand that they're the foundation of the internet.

Of late there's a qualitative argument being attempted here on objective grounds, and now it's not just pointless, it's idiotic. The argument that there's a groundswell of rejection is supported by no more than a dozen malcontents here on the pirate forum. The argument that, mostly, no one cares and everyone's quite happy with the game is supported by a graph a few pages upthread that's 101% more important to the devs than people whining on F95. One position has data on its side. The other has a statistically insignificant anecdote and an a wasteful number of kilobytes. People who can construct narrative objections should really be smarter than this, but apparently they're not.

My view of the plot hasn't changed. It's going exactly the way I expected and once predicted in the face of massive doubt, most of which has already been vindicated. It's still a serious risk and we'll see if they can pull it off. My opinion will be formed when it's over.

 

[ptahn]

If the 'scariness' was consistent (and it certainly was, especially in the book), then I don't see why you used it as an example. You added rape to your scenario. Still scary as hell! Was that scarier than the book or movie? No, just different. What was your point?

You are moving the goal posts. First it's postulating a The Wizard of Oz remake being transformed by an awful event in the third act. Now, I'm not even sure where you are. Except that you don't like where Haley's story went. Yeah, I got that a long time ago.

As I got long time ago that you like the story the way it is and yet we are both still discussing it. My point with W. o. O. was that the introduction of the ill fitted rape story into the story as it was would be similar to adding a rape element to W. o. O. It allowed me to reference a "magic wand." Neither story should have a rape in it. And fans of W. o. O. would be unhappy if rape was added to the story just as some fans of HS were unhappy with its introduction in HS.

 

[Walter Victor]

likesblondes New game Is kinda onhold atm

I'm a Patron, and according to Likesblondes, his new game, Rebirth, us on hold for a month. According to him, real life has interfered. He promises a new release in December.

I will grant you that the vampire theme of the new game has seemed to turn off some of his old supporters. But, if he actually does continue with it, I'll bet that there are plenty of people out there who would like that genre.

 

[ptahn]

No, again! Sandra's OCD is an imperative element, that is caused by the abuse of her mother. Sandra's experience may be essential to the resolution of the plot. If so, it was planned from the beginning.

Yes, again! Sandra's OCD was a constant source of amusement for the mains until the change in story. One rape wasn't enough so they added another and decided to connect Sandra's OCD to it.

 

[Walter Victor]

As I got long time ago that you like the story the way it is and yet we are both still discussing it. My point with W. o. O. was that the introduction of the ill fitted rape story into the story as it was would be similar to adding a rape element to W. o. O. It allowed me to reference a "magic wand." Neither story should have a rape in it. And fans of W. o. O. would be unhappy if rape was added to the story just as some fans of HS were unhappy with its introduction in HS.

Would it have been okay then, if Viitgames had just had someone kidnap Haley and enslave her?

I know why you're discussing it. Me? I'm discussing it to counter you. Period. I'm not going to have new viewers come here and only see your negative reviews. Besides, as I mentioned earlier, the more posts here, the more advertisement for the game.

 

[Walter Victor]

Yes, again! Sandra's OCD was a constant source of amusement for the mains until the change in story. One rape wasn't enough so they added another and decided to connect Sandra's OCD to it.

Because some people didn't understand the point of it, doesn't negate its importance to the game. It was all necessary, and is likely to be even more necessary in the future.

 

[ptahn]

Would it have been okay then, if Viitgames had just had someone kidnap Haley and enslave her?

I know why you're discussing it. Me? I'm discussing it to counter you. Period. I'm not going to have new viewers come here and only see your negative reviews. Besides, as I mentioned earlier, the more posts here, the more advertisement for the game.

Would it be by flying monkeys?

 

[Walter Victor]

Would it be by flying monkeys?

Perhaps, but wouldn't you rather take on that task yourself?

 

[ptahn]

Perhaps, but wouldn't you rather take on that task yourself?

Kidnapping Haley? While the jury is still out, I believe that I am a real person and Haley is still a fictional character. I give Viitgames permission to use the name Ptahn if he wants to write it into the story.

 

[LazyName]

So what i walked in on was ptahn saying that if you played the game longer you will care more that haley was abused. My respsonse is thats impossible to determine in any direction and any conversation about level of care vs amount of time played will be done in wishy washy anecdotes that cant be used to form any kind of conclusion. Its a boring non topic that requires people to presuppose a conclusion at best or argue about whether there feelings are valid at worst. It provides no context because theres no proven correlation between time spent playing and feelings for this game. Your hypothetical is dripping with bias someone playing the game fresh and someone playing the game month after month is not comparable to someone who barely watched a movie and someone who is a super cinephile. The only thing that matters from a reccomendation is if the persons taste has historically coincided with my own. If someone reccomended game of thrones to me and they binged the series or they watched it since season 1 i would not take into account how long theyd been watching id only care if we like similar television shows.

 

[ptahn]

Because some people didn't understand the point of it, doesn't negate its importance to the game. It was all necessary, and is likely to be even more necessary in the future.

It's importance to the game seemed to be to make Sandra less likable than Haley and for those that broke up with Sandra, it is unlikely to be important in the future.

 

[ptahn]

So what i walked in on was ptahn saying that if you played the game longer you will care more that haley was abused. My respsonse is thats impossible to determine in any direction and any conversation about level of care vs amount of time played will be done in wishy washy anecdotes that cant be used to form any kind of conclusion. Its a boring non topic that requires people to presuppose a conclusion at best or argue about whether there feelings are valid at worst. It provides no context because theres no proven correlation between time spent playing and feelings for this game. Your hypothetical is dripping with bias someone playing the game fresh and someone playing the game month after month is not comparable to someone who barely watched a movie and someone who is a super cinephile. The only thing that matters from a reccomendation is if the persons taste has historically coincided with my own. If someone reccomended game of thrones to me and they binged the series or they watched it since season 1 i would not take into account how long theyd been watching id only care if we like similar television shows.

I'm not stating the supposition as fact, just a hypothesis. As for Game of Thrones, it would be interesting to determine whether binge watchers were as disappointed in the final season as those of us who watched it from day one. My theory (and it's only a theory) that if you play a game or watch a tv series over a long period of time, you have a greater emotional investment in said game or story. As I pointed out you have a greater emotional attachment to a friend that you have had for years than you do to someone you just met. There is a certain amount of logic to the theory. Check out the link in the next post.

 

[preglovr12]

Of late there's a qualitative argument being attempted here on objective grounds, and now it's not just pointless, it's idiotic. The argument that there's a groundswell of rejection is supported by no more than a dozen malcontents here on the pirate forum. The argument that, mostly, no one cares and everyone's quite happy with the game is supported by a graph a few pages upthread that's 101% more important to the devs than people whining on F95. One position has data on its side. The other has a statistically insignificant anecdote and an a wasteful number of kilobytes. People who can construct narrative objections should really be smarter than this, but apparently they're not.

We're at a point now where nobody can objectively say anything. October may be an outlier for all we know, we have no data as to whether it is or not. The near flatline of patrons the four months proceeding we can endlessly argue about, good or bad.

My respsonse is thats impossible to determine in any direction and any conversation about level of care vs amount of time played will be done in wishy washy anecdotes that cant be used to form any kind of conclusion.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Joshua Tree]

Really? Someone brings x5 as Ptolemy, that is involved in several projects? That sounds a bit strange. Let alone that ... who major (and it must be a major in patreon-adult-games-sense) developer has not released an update in 2 years?

Well, 5 times as much as what Ptolemy's patreon show at least. What Ptolemy got dripping in from projects outside his own Patreon I don't know about. And who? It shouldn't be to hard to find out if you look around on the forum here. I don't want to bring up name, its a bit like mention Voldemort or say Beetlejuice 3 times.

 

[ptahn]

Fine.

I abandoned this thread (to those whose arguments I just dropped with response, I apologize; my judgement that I was wasting my time wasn't necessarily about you) a month ago? More? Less? Because it was just the same boring arguments over and over, none of which amounted to anything more interesting that "I like it"/"I don't like it." That's an utterly worthless debate, though obviously (as someone who's been arguing online since 1986) I understand that they're the foundation of the internet.

Of late there's a qualitative argument being attempted here on objective grounds, and now it's not just pointless, it's idiotic. The argument that there's a groundswell of rejection is supported by no more than a dozen malcontents here on the pirate forum. The argument that, mostly, no one cares and everyone's quite happy with the game is supported by a graph a few pages upthread that's 101% more important to the devs than people whining on F95. One position has data on its side. The other has a statistically insignificant anecdote and an a wasteful number of kilobytes. People who can construct narrative objections should really be smarter than this, but apparently they're not.

My view of the plot hasn't changed. It's going exactly the way I expected and once predicted in the face of massive doubt, most of which has already been vindicated. It's still a serious risk and we'll see if they can pull it off. My opinion will be formed when it's over.

So would you say, objectively, that the more money and the more supporters a game has the better the story. Many have argued including me that revenue does not exactly equal quality. Dark Silver has over 1900 patrons for Glamour which has a rating of 2.5 stars. It can't all be for BB with 3.5 stars. There are a lot of good stories that don't get deserved patronage and a lot that get more than they deserve. It is my opinion that HS pre-August update was a better story than BB. I just really don't believe that the quality of a story can be measured with a graph.

My arguments for the drop in quality were more fleshed out at the time that the updates came out. This whole wave of debate started when I commented on posts that I had not responded to previously because I did not have the time when they came out.

 

[Joshua Tree]

So would you say, objectively, that the more money and the more supporters a game has the better the story. Many have argued including me that revenue does not exactly equal quality. Dark Silver has over 1900 patrons for Glamour which has a rating of 2.5 stars. It can't all be for BB with 3.5 stars. There are a lot of good stories that don't get deserved patronage and a lot that get more than they deserve. It is my opinion that HS pre-August update was a better story than BB. I just really don't believe that the quality of a story can be measured with a graph.

My arguments for the drop in quality were more fleshed out at the time that the updates came out. This whole wave of debate started when I commented on posts that I had not responded to previously because I did not have the time when they came out.

This is not a easy question. If you as a creator take a look at your weaker skills, and then use of that money to hire people with better skills to raise the quality, you would improve quality of your product. But then there is those that just want to keep it as it is and trudge along. But this is kinda the same for all sorts of business ventures.

 

[LazyName]

We're at a point now where nobody can objectively say anything. October may be an outlier for all we know, we have no data as to whether it is or not. The near flatline of patrons the four months proceeding we can endlessly argue about, good or bad.

You must be registered to see the links

Alright I'll concede the point that people feel more strongly about their media if they are consuming it piecemeal. Still i see the way this conclusion is being used as an overreach. You'll claim that you're only talking about how strongly people feel but in the same message compare it to someone who is on their cell phone watching a movie and then go a step further and ask if their reccomendation is just as valuable as someone who is a cinephile. Its heavily implied that the opinions of recent players are less valid and less informed than people who have been playing longer. As for wishy washy anecdotes people are going to claim they took their time reading or that it took them a couple days to get through the game and others will tout the months of support theyve given its all just shit to try and validate their experience with the game over others. In the end arguing about how long and how attentively people played the game is far less appealing to me then how they interpreted the game. For instance i've played the game since before there was any sexual content does that provide any extra context for my opinions or feelings that you find useful?