VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Segnbora]

I recently had a post deleted from this forum with no explanation as to why.

I've had a bunch of comments deleted elsewhere, and as someone who's been debating folks online since 1986 (no typo) in all manner of open and moderated fora I'd encourage you to just let it go. It's a private forum and they sometimes make things just go away. It's fine. It doesn't matter. Demand a refund if you'd like.

Those games have always been consistent in their nature this one was not.

You don't know that. You're asserting it because you were taken aback, but you don't actually know that this wasn't always intended. Star Wars wasn't about patricide vs. the redemption of the irredeemable enemy until it was. Buffy the Vampire Slayer wasn't about metaphorical and not-so-metaphorical rape and destroying historical patriarchy until it was. Firefly was about sympathizing with the Confederacy until it wasn't. You're not looking at the original outline and you don't know.

 

[ptahn]

I've read the comments, as a scan of the posts during that period might suggest, and nothing's "overwhelmingly" anything. I'm still waiting for data-based support for "a lot" and "left the game." For one thing, if someone's sitll posting in this thread they haven't "left the game." But you've no doubt solid numbers to back your assertion, so go ahead.

DMD and Milfy City have received far more vituperative invective that Haley's Story ever has or ever will, and they're also both grossly outperforming this project in terms of earnings. So your point is?

And I never said that I left the game only that others have. My hope was that this game would eventually get back to what made it great. I don't think that will ever happen. It seems that the developers are quickly moving to an end not even bother to fix issues like the Diane dialogue box. That problem had been brought up quite some time ago and some one recently pointed it out again so it must still be there. My hope is by still making negative comments now, that when Viitgames moves on he will be less likely to follow suit in his next project. I hope his next game can be one of my favorites from start to finish. I know that his falling revenue will be a more effective agent in my cause. I also want readers to know that there is a different opinion than the one that now holds the majority.

 

[Segnbora]

And I never said that I left the game only that others have.

'k. Who?

falling revenue

Data?

the one that now holds the majority.

But you said it was "a lot" and "overwhelmingly negative." This seems contradictory.

 

[ptahn]

I've had a bunch of comments deleted elsewhere, and as someone who's been debating folks online since 1986 (no typo) in all manner of open and moderated fora I'd encourage you to just let it go. It's a private forum and they sometimes make things just go away. It's fine. It doesn't matter. Demand a refund if you'd like.


You don't know that. You're asserting it because you were taken aback, but you don't actually know that this wasn't always intended. Star Wars wasn't about patricide vs. the redemption of the irredeemable enemy until it was. Buffy the Vampire Slayer wasn't about metaphorical and not-so-metaphorical rape and destroying historical patriarchy until it was. Firefly was about sympathizing with the Confederacy until it wasn't. You're not looking at the original outline and you don't know.

It is an issue if the moderators are deleting all the negative comments about a story and leaving all the positive ones. Star Wars, Buffy, Firefly: nerd trifecta. I once got Star Wars, Harry Potter, Avengers in a single post of my own for a nerd trifecta as well. Star Wars was always a space drama (as for the other two, I never watched them.) HALEY'S STORY romantic comedy for a year then RAPE STORY (as another poster named it.)

 

[ptahn]

'k. Who?


Data?


But you said it was "a lot" and "overwhelmingly negative." This seems contradictory.

Falling revenue: was at over $2300/month now at $2000. A lot of people can have opinions about something and these opinions can be overwhelmingly negative. I'm not sure about your confusion.

 

[Segnbora]

You're tossing out a lot of anecdotes. I'm not responsible for what the mods do. I can continue to ask you for evidence that a response was "overwhelmingly negative," or that Viit's monetary support has declined, or that "a lot" of people have rejected the game due to the statutory rape subplot. Some certainly have. The assertions of plurality or majority remain yours to justify.

 

[Segnbora]

Falling revenue: was at over $2300/month now at $2000. A lot of people can have opinions about something and these opinions can be overwhelmingly negative. I'm not sure about your confusion.

But the overall trend is unquestionably positive. He's making as much

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as he was at the beginning of November. And that more recent falloff does not map to the Klaus revelation. If anything it caused a brief falloff followed by a massive surge. How is that "overwhelmingly negative"?

 

[ptahn]

You're tossing out a lot of anecdotes. I'm not responsible for what the mods do. I can continue to ask you for evidence that a response was "overwhelmingly negative," or that Viit's monetary support has declined, or that "a lot" of people have rejected the game due to the statutory rape subplot. Some certainly have. The assertions of plurality or majority remain yours to justify.

A lot does not equal a majority. If you had $3000 in your pocket and you lost $1000 you would probably say you lost a lot of money even though you did not lose the majority of your money. I was going to count up the negative comments to see how many there were compared to the total and as I have said they are all gone including my own. I will let you be my evidence that I have criticized the direction of this story many times. So at this point you are asking me to prove what is written on a piece of paper after the paper has been burned. And finally, I have nothing that I need to justify to you. I am letting people know that if you play this game and don't like what happened, you are not alone. I am reminding Viitgames and Ptolemy that there are people who hate what they did to this game. As I recall you think that DPC is a genius, we are never going to be on the same page.

 

[Segnbora]

If you had $3000 in your pocket and you lost $1000 you would probably say you lost a lot of money

If I got the $1000 back the next month and continued to make more I probably wouldn't complain.

I will let you be my evidence that I have criticized the direction of this story many times.

Sure, but you and about a half-dozen other people relentlessly (relentlessly, relentlessly) criticizing a plot point on a pirate forum wherein there's zero evidence — I will gratefully accept contradiction — that any of you were Patrons who angrily gave up their support doesn't map to "overwhelmingly negative."

I could point to the overall support graph and claim that the direction of the story has been overwhelmingly popular. And I'd have more support for that position than you do, even though I wouldn't actually assert it because I don't believe it's true. I believe the graph represents mindshare and that the plot doesn't really matter, but then that's the cynic in me. I do believe the overall uptick in support suggests that an assertion of rejection is not supported by the evidence.

I am letting people know

Well, thank the heavens above that you're here for those terribly vulnerable people.

 

[ptahn]

If I got the $1000 back the next month and continued to make more I probably wouldn't complain.


Sure, but you and about a half-dozen other people relentlessly (relentlessly, relentlessly) criticizing a plot point on a pirate forum wherein there's zero evidence — I will gratefully accept contradiction — that any of you were Patrons who angrily gave up their support doesn't map to "overwhelmingly negative."

I could point to the overall support graph and claim that the direction of the story has been overwhelmingly popular. And I'd have more support for that position than you do, even though I wouldn't actually assert it because I don't believe it's true. I believe the graph represents mindshare and that the plot doesn't really matter, but then that's the cynic in me. I do believe the overall uptick in support suggests that an assertion of rejection is not supported by the evidence.


Well, thank the heavens above that you're here for those terribly vulnerable people.

1) A lot does equal a majority was the point from which you have drifted.
2) It was more than half a dozen, but I can not prove it since their posts have been deleted along with mine.
3) The recent down turn in revenue (roughly 15%) was an argument to those who pointed to out me that the story was good because it had 300 supporters. I had pointed out a number of items that pointed to a decline in overall quality in the story. That was the night that there was a flurry of posts regarding my initial post. My original post was deleted so I don't really want to repeat the issues I raised just to have it deleted again.
4) I remember the post from a player who wrote how saddened he was that he had to leave this game that he loved because the Klaus thing was just too much for him. You could read the emotion in his post. I'm sure that his post has been deleted as well. I do have to admit that I felt bad for him (or her.) You do have a tendency to attack people who have a differing opinion, just ask A111. (I know, I was mean to him as well. I was making fun of his out of control nature. however, and not his ideas.) Who knows, maybe his posts are gone too.

Read you next week when the next update hits.

 

[Walter Victor]

IT'S A RAPE GAME!!! IT'S A RAPE GAME!!!

Yup, and Romeo and Juliet is a play about Death by Dueling, NOT a love story.

Think about it. Here you had this wonderfully sweet story about a lovely couple from feuding families. But, you just knew that their love was so strong, that it would heal the feud and win over the families, bringing everyone together at the end.

But, NO!!! It all goes to hell in the third act. First Romeo's best friend, Mercutio, is killed in a duel by Juliet's cousin, Tybalt. Then, if that wasn't enough, that hack Shakespeare had Romeo kill Tybalt in ... you guessed it, ANOTHER FUCKING DUEL!!!

That patzer took his play, and turned it from a perfectly good love story into a damned Death by Dueling story, and the love aspect was completely obliterated.

Obviously, his collaborator, Sir Francis Bacon, got to him and somehow persuaded Shakespeare to change everything that he had originally planned. Neither one of those incompetents will ever produce anything worthwhile. We are ALL onto their little game... except for a few inconsequential people, who just don't understand anything.

 

[Segnbora]

1) A lot does equal a majority was the point from which you have drifted.

"Overwhelmingly" suggests a majority. Fairly simple English. He's got over 300 Patrons, so you need at least 151 people. Start listing them, please.

2) It was more than half a dozen, but I can not prove it since their posts have been deleted along with mine.

I just reread all of August. There's tons of dissent. It feels like one poster may have been excised, but then I blocked him ages ago for posting endless reams of unreadable irrelevancy so I don't really know. Perhaps you were a casualty. Nonetheless, everything with which I was arguing at the time is still there in the form in which I was arguing against. Still, I'll acknowledge that I counted more than a half-dozen yet assert that the number of people vehemently antagonistic in a sustained fashion to the plot point were fewer than ten. Feel free to do your own count and prove me wrong. One-off drop-ins aren't a movement, though. Someone like preglovr12 is a true dissident. Find another nine like him since August. Okay, eight aside from you. It's quite possible you will, but it will be a small percentage of the numbers supporting the game.

3) The recent down turn in revenue (roughly 15%) was an argument to those who pointed to out me that the story was good because it had 300 supporters.

No, you tied it to the Klaus revelation. That was months ago. Revenue is way up since then. The December dip was because of what...their dad and his disgusting beard? Please. No one posting here has any idea why there was a December dip. "The game isn't addressing the vital and fascinating Klaus story soon enough." There. We can all make things up.

You do have a tendency to attack people who have a differing opinion

I have a tendency to ask people who assert widespread support for their opinion to demonstrate that support. I used to enjoy debating views on the game, but what I just described eventually became more than I was willing to devote my time to debating.

 

[Segnbora]

Romeo and Juliet

That story really betrayed its setup when it became all about ephebophilia and suicide. You can't imagine how much Patreon support Shakespeare lost when he tried to pull that completely unforseeable BS.

 

[Ghostdanser]

Obviously, his collaborator, Sir Francis Bacon, got to him and somehow persuaded Shakespeare to change everything that he had originally planned. Neither one of those incompetents will every produce anything worthwhile. We are ALL onto their little game... except for a few inconsequential people, who just don't understand anything.

To be fair...they could be replaced with an infinite number of monkeys:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[preglovr12]

I have a tendency to ask people who assert widespread support for their opinion to show that support. I used to enjoy debating views on the game, but what I just described eventually became more than I was willing to devote my time to debating.

The only thing I'd like to point out is that this thread has been completely dead (for the most part) for a while now. I realize it's a pirate forum and likely some people were driven away by all the arguments and not the game itself. I realize talk is cheap, but it's at least interesting and something worth considering. I'd also like to point out I wouldn't say a majority of people have any one feeling for this game, good or bad.

I've looked at Graphtreon and I know that the money is doing some fairly strange things. Last month (Nov) was his first reported loss compared to the previous month's earnings (Oct) but as I said a while ago October seemed to be a massive outlier.

 

[Segnbora]

It could be dead because support for the game was always low. It could also be dead because since "the incident" not much has happened. And it could also be dead because game threads tend to thrive not on success, but on failure or controversy. Would A Wife & Mother be the thread it is if people weren't being driven insane by a lack of sex? DMD? Milfy City (in that case releases rather than sex)? How many threads (*cough* Culture Shock) are only fertile because of endless NTR debates? Everything I just typed is the purest possible speculation, but I do suspect that the relative silence in this thread actually supports a narrative in which a small number of extremely vocal dissidents eventually ran out of steam and so did their debate partners. I know I completely lost interest in saying the same thing for the fortieth time. And most others are more or less content with, or at least happily indifferent to, what's been produced.

Again, speculation.

 

[Walter Victor]

To be fair...they could be replaced with an infinite number of monkeys:

You must be registered to see the links

It is the east, and Juliet is the rApE!

Damn! Almost had one there!

 

[preglovr12]

Again, speculation.

That's the thing that's so interesting to me though, how'd Viit conjure up so much support in October when hardly anything has happened in the game for a while? Certainly not that update specifically, which was telegraphed in the story in September.

The truth of the matter is this game doesn't have much to discuss in comparison to others. There aren't very many tiers of argument about rape, and this thread sure tried to find them for a while there. Compare that to Milfy City where there's all kinds of things said about ICSTOR's mental health and worthiness of patronage. At a substantially more basic level, there aren't many girls to discuss favorites and what not as well.

 

[Ozel]

Damn, go away for a while to build a new PC and the thread breaks out into a debate.

 

[Segnbora]

how'd Viit conjure

Really? Couldn't have just been organic?

The truth of the matter is this game doesn't have much to discuss in comparison to others.

The truth is that this game does, but the incredibly boring and repetitive arguments about the Klaus revelation buried the thread. People don't want to stick their toe into that argument anymore. (Anecdotal evidence: I was once of the most prolific posters in this thread. Aside from the last few hours, am I now?) We can blame this on the game or we can blame this on all of us — or both — but that's actually what killed the discussion here.

I'd love to discuss what their mother knew and when/how clearly she knew it, and given certain answers what her responsibility was and whether or not she lived up to it. I'd also love to discuss her dad's apparently disconnected role. I'd love to discuss the MC & Sandra and whether or not he was a minor asshole or a major asshole to her if they've broken up. I'd love to discuss what the fact that both their bosses know what happened to Sandra means, both personally and professionally...because from a professional standpoint this suddenly seems like an overly personal and incredibly toxic work environment.

But we can't talk about any of this if it's constantly derailed by Klaus. Again, opinions on who's to blame differ, but I'd suggest that the inability to spark and sustain discussions here is not the devs' fault, it's ours.