VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Ghostdanser]

Really? Couldn't have just been organic?


The truth is that this game does, but the incredibly boring and repetitive arguments about the Klaus revelation buried the thread. People don't want to stick their toe into that argument anymore. (Anecdotal evidence: I was once of the most prolific posters in this thread. Aside from the last few hours, am I now?) We can blame this on the game or we can blame this on all of us — or both — but that's actually what killed the discussion here.

I'd love to discuss what their mother knew and when/how clearly she knew it, and given certain answers what her responsibility was and whether or not she lived up to it. I'd also love to discuss her dad's apparently disconnected role. I'd love to discuss the MC & Sandra and whether or not he was a minor asshole are a major asshole to her if they've broken up. I'd love to discuss what the fact that both their bosses know what happened to Sandra means, both personally and professionally...because from a professional standpoint this suddenly seems like an overly personal and incredibly toxic work environment.

But we can't talk about any of this if it's constantly derailed by Klaus. Again, opinions on who's to blame differ, but I'd suggest that the inability to spark and sustain discussions here is not the devs' fault, it's ours.

That's a pretty good synopsis of why I don't come to this thread too often. Admittedly I haven't been an active forum poster for very long, but I did quite a bit of lurking. There is a great deal to discuss with this game, however it feels like if you post something in here you're unintentionally setting off a bomb, because someone is bound to disagree vehemently with what you said.
One last thing...you left off the one where if you say you like Sandra it sets off a chorus of "it's Haley's Story...not Sandra's Story, fuck Sandra" to paraphrase. I'm liking the story, but I usually think twice before getting involved in the forum for it. (Although Walter Victor's "Romeo and Juliet" post was just too funny to pass up. Good job!)

 

[Segnbora]

you left off the one where if you say you like Sandra it sets off a chorus of "it's Haley's Story...not Sandra's Story, fuck Sandra

To paraphrase someone else just upthread, I've never gotten the Sandra hate. As a character she has a few issues but she's kind and lovely and very much in love with the MC. She never does a single thing even slightly bad to him, and when she has to — moving away for her job — she's deeply, even tragically apologetic. She's also incredibly beautiful and, despite her hangups, totally down for sex (especially when the MC pushes her boundaries). In terms of gameplay she's patently present to provide romantic/sexual content while the incestuous relationship winds its slow way to apotheosis; something that almost never happens in incest games. And if one makes the correct choices it now seems possible that Sandra and Haley might be willing to share you. Other than Lisa and Adriana there's not one other character in the game that would do that. But Adriana's otherwise committed and Lisa's a delicious lunatic.

I once said, a zillion pages ago, that breaking up with Sandra was like kicking a beautiful puppy. I still mean that. I don't think we're "meant to." Yes, we get a sex scene in the most recent update if Sandra's kicked us to the curb, but it intuitively feels like we've fucked it up somehow.

Yes, if it comes to it I'll choose Haley over Sandra. But maybe I won't have to. I guess we'll see.

 

[Ghostdanser]

I once said, a zillion pages ago, that breaking up with Sandra was like kicking a beautiful puppy. I still mean that. I don't think we're "meant to." Yes, we get a sex scene in the most recent update if Sandra's kicked us to the curb, but it intuitively feels like we've fucked it up somehow.

That's the way I feel as well, so you are not the only one. Especially since these last few updates have shown her really trying to overcome her phobias. I want for her to grow into a well-adjusted woman, and I really do see how Haley could help her do that.

 

[Walter Victor]

That's the way I feel as well, so you are not the only one. Especially since these last few updates have shown her really trying to overcome her phobias. I want for her to grow into a well-adjusted woman, and I really do see how Haley could help her do that.

It would seem to me that the best possible outcome is for Haley and Sandra to help each other get over their respective issues... while giving great joy to the MC in the process.

Frankly, I find it difficult to see how a resolution that will keep Haley and the MC together is possible without Sandra. Sandra is the classic Ptolemy beard solution. They will probably think of something, but I doubt that it will be as realistic or fulfilling.

 

[Segnbora]

Especially since these last few updates have shown her really trying to overcome her phobias. I want for her to grow into a well-adjusted woman, and I really do see how Haley could help her do that.

You know, this is an interesting point and one that I hope the devs are pursuing. A little while after the controversy erupted I eventually came around to a conclusion — still speculative, but supported more and more by each release — that this isn't so much a story about having sex with your sister as it is about helping guide her to what she needs. A list that includes her brother's dick but also includes confronting her past.

If that's also what's supposed to happen with Sandra — and as you note it already has, on multiple occasions — that would be really interesting. Especially as her phobias and Haley's warped view of what happened with Klaus have similar roots.

 

[Ozel]

To be fair, and to play a bit of devil's advocate here, I understand people not really liking Sandra for whatever reason. That's their opinion and their choice, the player isn't even given an option as to whether they want to pursue a relationship with her, it just happens, and for those who didn't care for Sandra and weren't into the whole forced relationship thing with her, they have a couple of outs now.

I adore Sandra, but I do want to see what happens on the path without her, so I have saves for both paths.

The one I don't really get are those who don't want a relationship with Haley. The game is called Haley's Story and she makes it very clear that she has long been very in love with her brother, so I don't know why people would think that a relationship with her would be avoidable. Perhaps the whole klaus thing is the out for those who don't want the relationship with Haley? I just don't see the point of playing a game called Haley's Story if you don't want Haley in it.

 

[preglovr12]

Really? Couldn't have just been organic?

How could it be? I won't outright deny it as a possibility because anything is possible, but it seems too strange to be solely more people wanting to give him money. He gained around $400 after gaining around $60 a month for four months. As I said, if something happened in the story in September it could have been word of mouth or whatever, but I find that highly unlikely (unless the vague hint at something nasty happening to Klaus from Victor was the trigger?) It could've been the Diane scene but that was bugged for a lot of people (including myself).

I'd love to discuss what their mother knew and when/how clearly she knew it, and given certain answers what her responsibility was and whether or not she lived up to it. I'd also love to discuss her dad's apparently disconnected role. I'd love to discuss the MC & Sandra and whether or not he was a minor asshole or a major asshole to her if they've broken up. I'd love to discuss what the fact that both their bosses know what happened to Sandra means, both personally and professionally...because from a professional standpoint this suddenly seems like an overly personal and incredibly toxic work environment.

Except the distant dad situation, everything you mentioned leads directly to or very closely back to rape, so yeah, what I said is valid. WVM, just as an example, frequently discusses hair. Remember when this thread discussed hair? Simpler times.

You might argue that I'm ignoring the Sandra break up and I am. We were forced into a relationship with her, so I don't really find any discussion about how asshole-y the MC was as worth discussing. Both elements are completely out of our hands as players. We can, if you'd like, discuss endlessly about how the player has very little control over the MC in this game and how frustrating that can be. I've already talked about that a few times in this thread.

 

[Segnbora]

How could it be?

They promoted it somewhere else? People who'd been avoiding it for a lack of MC+Haley sex finally caught on that that was no longer the case? Could be any number of reasons. I'm curious about what you're attempting to imply here.

Except the distant dad situation, everything you mentioned leads directly to or very closely back to rape

The fact that Adriana knows about Sandra's history doesn't relate to the Haley/Klaus situation and it's second-order removed from Sandra's family history. It just strikes me as an extremely unusual thing for her to know, and were I Sandra it would make me very uncomfortable. (My suspicion is that the actual reason she "knows" is because the MC had to have the "here's how it's gonna go down" conversation with Victor, and if he was off having sex with Adriana rather than drinking with Victor, that conversation still had to be previewed. Meta-game justification, in other words. I'd still prefer an in-universe justification, though.)

We were forced into a relationship with her, so I don't really find any discussion about how asshole-y the MC was as worth discussing.

I do, because the fact is, whether or not we were forced into a relationship with her, we were in a relationship with her. One in which we could cheat with impunity (or not), and later one in which we were forced to cheat on her. As the story approaches the endgame the behavior of the MC matters in terms of justifying which relationships survive and in what form. No NPC other than Lisa (of all people) has expressed negativity regarding infidelity or open relationships — Haley, Adriana, and Diane all seem more or less in favor — except Sandra, who's an unknown...at least until the tiny little window of possibility if you're still on her route in the latest update. There is, however, one character who's repeatedly expressed resistance to the idea of their love interest having sex with others, whether it's in the present or the past, and that's the MC. (And I'm not referring to the Klaus situation.)

If the MC's had sex with Adriana, Diane, and Haley (Alana means he's already broken up with Sandra, though it's not yet official), and fooled around with Lisa, but can somehow end up in an open/bearded/polyamorous/whatever relationship with Haley and Sandra, it's a failure of the writing unless it's demonstrated to us that Sandra's was okay with it all along. That's why it matters; if she's not, then the MC having sex behind her back should have negative consequences. Which, to me, would be a savvy way of introducing gameplay and significance almost all the way back to the beginning of a game that, as you say, is essentially a VN with a couple side pieces.

 

[Walter Victor]

it's a failure of the writing unless it's demonstrated to us that Sandra's was okay with it all along.

I seriously doubt that Sandra was consciously 'okay' with any MC-sharing relationship from the beginning. However, she may well have had SUBconscious inclinations toward some form of alternative lifestyle all her post-pubescent life. Those are the inclinations that Haley is searching for and trying to bring out.

Sex itself is certainly not a problem, and she may soon discover that she is physically attracted to Haley, but had previously repressed any such feelings with any female. It certainly wouldn't be a stretch, then, to add the MC, with whom she is surely in love, to a ménage à trois with Haley.

Besides, it IS a porn game. I have yet to see one where reality is not challenged to some degree. This happens to be one where reality is definitely a factor. But it IS still a porn game.

 

[Ozel]

I seriously doubt that Sandra was consciously 'okay' with any MC-sharing relationship from the beginning. However, she may well have had SUBconscious inclinations toward some form of alternative lifestyle all her post-pubescent life. Those are the inclinations that Haley is searching for and trying to bring out.

Sex itself is certainly not a problem, and she may soon discover that she is physically attracted to Haley, but had previously repressed any such feelings with any female. It certainly wouldn't be a stretch, then, to add the MC, with whom she is surely in love, to a ménage à trois with Haley.

Besides, it IS a porn game. I have yet to see one where reality is not challenged to some degree. This happens to be one where reality is definitely a factor. But it IS still a porn game.

Well, whether Sandra is okay with sharing or not isn't the only potential issue, it's also getting Sandra to be okay with the fact that the MC and his flesh and blood sister are fucking each other, something that I haven't really seen brought up at all, or maybe I just missed it.

 

[Segnbora]

It's a series of potentially huge revelations. On the Sandra path they'll coincide with the beginning of the resolution to the Klaus revelation. The MC could be starving for sex for a while.

 

[Ozel]

It's a series of potentially huge revelations. On the Sandra path they'll coincide with the beginning of the resolution to the Klaus revelation. The MC could be starving for sex for a while.

True enough, hopefully not for too long. I don't know how many updates the playerbase could take with the "short updates" and "what, no sex?!" on the Sandra path. Would be great if the thread doesn't devolve into that again for too many more updates.

 

[preglovr12]

They promoted it somewhere else? People who'd been avoiding it for a lack of MC+Haley sex finally caught on that that was no longer the case? Could be any number of reasons. I'm curious about what you're attempting to imply here.

Self promotion is exactly what I'm trying to say. "Conjuring" wasn't meant to invoke thoughts of deals with the devil or raising zombies. I just find it insanely unlikely he sat on his ass and did nothing and gained so much money. His earnings per patron went up too and that's been understandably on the decline.

The fact that Adriana knows about Sandra's history doesn't relate to the Haley/Klaus situation and it's second-order removed from Sandra's family history. It just strikes me as an extremely unusual thing for her to know, and were I Sandra it would make me very uncomfortable.

I gotta admit I'm a little confused. Luckily I can blame the game for that because I didn't follow the Adriana path but a bug that update forced me into it anyway! We're talking about Adriana knowing Sandra's mom was raped, right? How does that create a toxic work environment? Sandra doesn't work for her uncles company (and I'm not sure she could legally represent it due to conflict of interest) so she's not getting professionally coddled by anyone. She's just as much Victor's sister as Sandra's mom, I don't really see toxic anywhere. Victor probably told Adriana as a friend. Lemme know if I'm missing something because I certainly feel like I am.

(My suspicion is that the actual reason she "knows" is because the MC had to have the "here's how it's gonna go down" conversation with Victor, and if he was off having sex with Adriana rather than drinking with Victor, that conversation still had to be previewed. Meta-game justification, in other words. I'd still prefer an in-universe justification, though.)

I feel like that conversation could have happened without Adriana saying a damn thing. Maybe it was for the people that wanted to finally see something happening? Even then dialogue written for the sole purpose of the audience isn't a great look.

I do, because the fact is, whether or not we were forced into a relationship with her, we were in a relationship with her. One in which we could cheat with impunity (or not), and later one in which we were forced to cheat on her. As the story approaches the endgame the behavior of the MC matters in terms of justifying which relationships survive and in what form. No NPC other than Lisa (of all people) has expressed negativity regarding infidelity or open relationships — Haley, Adriana, and Diane all seem more or less in favor — except Sandra, who's an unknown...at least until the tiny little window of possibility if you're still on her route in the latest update. There is, however, one character who's repeatedly expressed resistance to the idea of their love interest having sex with others, whether it's in the present or the past, and that's the MC. (And I'm not referring to the Klaus situation.)

If the MC's had sex with Adriana, Diane, and Haley (Alana means he's already broken up with Sandra, though it's not yet official), and fooled around with Lisa, but can somehow end up in an open/bearded/polyamorous/whatever relationship with Haley and Sandra, it's a failure of the writing unless it's demonstrated to us that Sandra's was okay with it all along. That's why it matters; if she's not, then the MC having sex behind her back should have negative consequences. Which, to me, would be a savvy way of introducing gameplay and significance almost all the way back to the beginning of a game that, as you say, is essentially a VN with a couple side pieces.

You were originally talking about them having broken up, now you're talking mostly about them still being together. I agree completely that this is an interesting conversation, but that is not my response was written about:

I'd love to discuss the MC & Sandra and whether or not he was a minor asshole or a major asshole to her if they've broken up.

Truth of the matter is I don't give a rats ass how "mean" or "not mean" we were to Sandra when we didn't have the option to say no in the first place. It certainly could have been an interesting gameplay mechanic where you don't have access to Victor or Sandra for Haley's recovery if you dated her and things went poorly but we had no control so if there is some consequence it's just shitty writing and not me choosing shitty choices.

 

[Segnbora]

I don't know how many updates the playerbase could take with the "short updates" and "what, no sex?!" on the Sandra path.

As I said somewhere far upthread, Sandra/no Sandra bifurcation is a really dramatic step for this game to take. The last update demonstrated just how much; sex on only one of the routes, but a potentially story-transforming event on the other. Unless we're a lot closer to the end than I think we are, it's definitely going to shorten updates.

That said, if Haley's going through hell (especially one in which she resents the MC) then they most definitely should not be having sex. Same with a pissed-off Sandra, if that's the case. "Hey, Diane...?"

 

[Segnbora]

Self promotion is exactly what I'm trying to say.

But how does that create a surprising upsurge in Patrons? If it worked like that everyone would do it and money would be falling from the sky.

I just find it insanely unlikely he sat on his ass and did nothing and gained so much money.

So what did he do?

We're talking about Adriana knowing Sandra's mom was raped, right? How does that create a toxic work environment?

"Hey, Victor."
"Hey, MC."
"I have to talk to someone about this and you're the person in front of me. It turns out Lisa was molested by her father."
"That's terrible."
"Right?"
"Well, I know you're on your way to see Sandra, and..."
"And what?"
"Could you tell her?"
"No problem."

How does that feel for Lisa, who hadn't chosen to confide in Sandra, much less Victor? Every single person in this scenario is potentially revictimizing her.

Adriana should not know about Sandra's family history unless Sandra told her. It's not Victor's story to tell. Not unless, like the MC, Adriana had some rape-adjacent deformative crisis that Victor's experience could help solve.

You were originally talking about them having broken up, now you're talking mostly about them still being together.

The MC has sex with Haley on a Sandra route or on a route in which the variables say we've broken up with Sandra but the story has not yet broken up the MC and Sandra. Either way he's forced to cheat. That's being shitty to Sandra, especially given who he's doing it with.

Truth of the matter is I don't give a rats ass how "mean" or "not mean" we were to Sandra when we didn't have the option to say no in the first place. It certainly could have been an interesting gameplay mechanic where you don't have access to Victor or Sandra for Haley's recovery if you dated her and things went poorly

My point is that we're already (according to Ptolemy) presented with a gameplay mechanic that we didn't yet understand but which extends retroactively, in which the MC's kindness and love for Haley will be the fuel immolated in the process of healing her. The choices that "didn't matter" suddenly matter.

So why not replicate that with the MC and Sandra? There are multiple chances to resist her long before the "breakup" choices. Collate those with the potential for or actuality of cheating and you have a metric measuring how well the MC treated Sandra. Use that to determine whether or not Sandra will go along with any future relationship, whether it involves Haley or not.

 

[preglovr12]

But how does that create a surprising upsurge in Patrons? If it worked like that everyone would do it and money would be falling from the sky.

So what did he do?

I don't know what he did. I know a lot of game creators are now linking to other creators they enjoy, maybe he found a new audience that way from some game. Seeing that some people left before November points to some new advertising location in my opinion.

How does that feel for Lisa, who hadn't chosen to confide in Sandra, much less Victor? Every single person in this scenario is potentially revictimizing her.

I can see it in relation to MC. Victor has zero reason to tell MC if Sandra doesn't want MC to know yet. I still fail to see how that creates a toxic work environment though (more than dating someone so close to your boss in the first place). That's all personal and Sandra seems to show up at work for personal reasons as well.

Adriana should not know about Sandra's family history unless Sandra told her. It's not Victor's story to tell.

Sandra's mom is Victor's sister right? (It's past 3 am and my brain is almost done wholesale replacing memories of this game with other games so forgive me.) I fail to see how that's more Sandra's story to tell than his. Again, I can see an awkward work environment being created but I fail to see a toxic one.

The MC has sex with Haley on a Sandra route or on a route in which the variables say we've broken up with Sandra but the story has not yet broken up the MC and Sandra. Either way he's forced to cheat. That's being shitty to Sandra, especially given who he's doing it with.

It's the author being shitty to Sandra though, not us. We as players have no say in the matter. If MC is punished it won't be our fault. I honestly can't see how this can become a discussion beyond how we would do it differently either as people in the presented situation or as authors ourselves. Talking about how it'll effect MC is pointless in my opinion because it's pure speculation. There's only one answer and it's up to the author to show us.

My point is that we're already (according to Ptolemy) presented with a gameplay mechanic that we didn't yet understand but which extends retroactively, in which the MC's kindness and love for Haley will be the fuel immolated in the process of healing her. The choices that "didn't matter" suddenly matter.

Haley points were and always will be Haley points though. Just because we didn't know how they would be used in the end doesn't mean we didn't know it was a good idea to accrue them. They wouldn't exist id they weren't important so I disagree that those choices "didn't matter."

So why not replicate that with the MC and Sandra? There are multiple chances to resist her long before the "breakup" choices. Collate those with the potential for or actuality of cheating and you have a metric measuring how well the MC treated Sandra. Use that to determine whether or not Sandra will go along with any future relationship, whether it involves Haley or not.

Because that would require rewriting the code for the whole damn game? And judging by the last two releases with major bugs I'd rather not see that happen.

 

[kinkypornacc]

Just finished version 0.7 and I've gotta say this is one of the best games I've found on this website. I'll be giving this one five stars. One of the few incest centric games that doesn't feel like the main characters were waiting for the flimsiest excuse to fuck each others brains out.

 

[Irgendwie Irgendwo]

You know, this is an interesting point and one that I hope the devs are pursuing. A little while after the controversy erupted I eventually came around to a conclusion — still speculative, but supported more and more by each release — that this isn't so much a story about having sex with your sister as it is about helping guide her to what she needs. A list that includes her brother's dick but also includes confronting her past.

Good point. If I may I would compare it to a recently finished game about your sister who is also your college roommate. Nothing in that title suggests incestually happy ever after. Here we may have a case of Haley's Story just be the story of her past and how to overcome it.

That stated I will be happy to help her with it and sail off into the sunset with adorable Sandra.

 

[Ghostdanser]

That stated I will be happy to help her with it and sail off into the sunset with adorable Sandra.

I would be too...but too be honest, I would prefer to sail off with both of them. Of course that's just because I'm a greedy bastard and want it all.

 

[Walter Victor]

Because that would require rewriting the code for the whole damn game? And judging by the last two releases with major bugs I'd rather not see that happen.

This is why people shouldn't post when they are sleep-deprived. The Sandra-points, like the Haley-points, already exist. You accumulate them by treating Sandra nicely, just as with Haley.