- Jan 28, 2018
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- Thread starter Charolastra
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- Aug 5, 2016
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Weren't the last post on patreon being a bit late about it since the renders for the Haley route were behind?Next update should be tomorrow or this weekend at the latest
- Jun 23, 2018
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Well, here I go again. I know some people wonder why I keep coming back, but I have a story that illustrates why I so tenaciously return to criticize the plot twist in this story.
Many people including me (and I will say right now that when I say "many" or "a lot" what I mean is that to the best of my recollection my impression at the time was "many" or "a lot": S. that's for you) drew parallels to what happened here to what happened in Acting Lessons. When the twist happened in AL many people, including me, felt that an otherwise great story had been ruined. We voiced our opinions and moved on. Later the "consensus" became that AL was a masterpiece. I've previously discussed why I think that happened so I won't go into it again. Recently a story that I thought was okay and felt that it had been getting better, stole the idea from DPC and put MC in a position where he was asked to choose which of two LI's to save and which to allow to die. There was even a poll in that forum where one of the choice was: yes she is dead because it worked so well for Acting Lessons. At the time, a lot of people did not feel that the choice worked so well for Acting Lessons; but they had moved on leaving only those that were okay with the story as it was.
What I am hoping to show by not leaving is that there is not a consensus that the rape of Haley was a good plot twist. In the future I hope to avoid a case where I am enjoying a game and the developer, out of no where, decides to make the LI a victim of statutory rape because it worked out so well for Haley's Story. Go back and read the comments at the time, it did not work out so well.
I still get people posting "likes" to my original post at the end of August and to my review. While I appreciate the sentiment, I would rather you post your own comments and reviews. Right new there are a lot of positive reviews getting a few "likes" and a few negative reviews getting a ton of "likes." The review score is probably higher than it should be and the impression you get be looking at the reviews is that most people are fine with the story the way it is. Let your own opinion be heard, don't just "like" mine.
Many people including me (and I will say right now that when I say "many" or "a lot" what I mean is that to the best of my recollection my impression at the time was "many" or "a lot": S. that's for you) drew parallels to what happened here to what happened in Acting Lessons. When the twist happened in AL many people, including me, felt that an otherwise great story had been ruined. We voiced our opinions and moved on. Later the "consensus" became that AL was a masterpiece. I've previously discussed why I think that happened so I won't go into it again. Recently a story that I thought was okay and felt that it had been getting better, stole the idea from DPC and put MC in a position where he was asked to choose which of two LI's to save and which to allow to die. There was even a poll in that forum where one of the choice was: yes she is dead because it worked so well for Acting Lessons. At the time, a lot of people did not feel that the choice worked so well for Acting Lessons; but they had moved on leaving only those that were okay with the story as it was.
What I am hoping to show by not leaving is that there is not a consensus that the rape of Haley was a good plot twist. In the future I hope to avoid a case where I am enjoying a game and the developer, out of no where, decides to make the LI a victim of statutory rape because it worked out so well for Haley's Story. Go back and read the comments at the time, it did not work out so well.
I still get people posting "likes" to my original post at the end of August and to my review. While I appreciate the sentiment, I would rather you post your own comments and reviews. Right new there are a lot of positive reviews getting a few "likes" and a few negative reviews getting a ton of "likes." The review score is probably higher than it should be and the impression you get be looking at the reviews is that most people are fine with the story the way it is. Let your own opinion be heard, don't just "like" mine.
- Jul 5, 2018
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- Dec 27, 2017
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But what's your point in returning? Did you really think when you composed your post that it was going to change a single mind? If you did, you must have been high.
We get it. You don't like what happened. But you have zero chance of changing what happened in the story. Plus, enough time (and releases) has elapsed since the episode that turned you off, that the people here that STILL play the game are unlikely to be persuaded by whatever you have to say.
So, basically, you are preaching to the people that don't like the game, don't play it anymore, but still show up here to knock it. The Haley UN-Fan Club, as it were. I can't persuade them (or you) to like it; you can't persuade me to dislike it. Yet you insist on trying. Seems an exercise in futility to me. But, you have a right to be here, so keep doing your thing, I guess.
Well, I guess we'll see you again after the next release comes out. I hope you will have something more relevant to say, but I doubt it.
Oh, by the way, it might not serve you well to discuss other games on this thread. It might draw unwanted attention to your posts. Just a helpful hint.
- Jun 23, 2018
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I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I did not discuss why I think the story choice was bad. I believe my post was self explanatory, I just want it to be known to those that have come to the story late that there is a different opinion than the one being voiced now. If you went to the AL forum now, you might get the impression that it was a unanimous hit, it wasn't. Same with HS, it would seem that everyone loves the story as it is or at least that those who are unhappy are unhappy for issues other than the plot twist. I am just expressing an opinion that many shared to keep that opinion alive. The developer who used DPC's plot twist mentioned all the great reviews that DPC received. He seemed to be taken aback when his story received negative comments for killing off an LI. If people had kept posting their anger over the AL plot twist maybe he would have made a different choice. I'm just reminding people that there were a lot of players unhappy with direction this story took.
As far as relevance goes, would it be better if I discussed whether or not incest should be in an incest game or how big or how small Haley's mouth is?
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- Aug 30, 2017
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Yes, I grokked your incoming disclaimer before it arrived. To which I'd offer this: why is it important to you that "many" or "a lot" describes the level of support for your position despite the (gestures at the game's 4 1/2 star rating) rather obvious evidence to the contrary? If I began every counterargument with "an insignificantly microscopic but noisy minority" to characterize your positions and the population of their supporters wouldn't you find that (at best) odd and (at worst) obnoxious? Because you'd properly find it both. Why not give "some" a shot? I still don't happen to think it accurately reflects the balance of opinions but — and I can't speak for anyone else here — I'd never lift a finger to argue against "some." It's a nice, vague word that suggests that there are those who agree with you (which is quite true) without trying to claim an impossible-to-justify-or-quantify majority, silent or otherwise.
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I didn't like the turn that Acting Lessons took either, but my reason has always differed from yours. I didn't think the story earned the trauma. I didn't think it paid it off, either. I would've been quite pleased with the game if it had. My appreciation for Haley's Story very much rests not on the twist but on how they earn what they've asked of its audience and whether or not the resolution (if there is one) is worthy of the setup. Does anyone like watching Gandalf, or Angel, or Obi-Wan, or Fingolfin, or Dumbledore, or Gastby die? Probably not. Whether or not the stories earn those dramatic character moments is what actually determines whether or not they were worth it, not some sort of caveman-level gut reaction to a single moment in time.
Could you point to anyone suggesting that there is? I've never claimed that it wasn't an inherently controversial plot point. All I've said is that I believe a qualitative assessment is not yet possible (with which you obviously disagree) and that the number of immediate rejections versus the game's overall audience isn't particularly large.
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I get archaeological "likes" as well. Tons of them. Other than getting an occasional kick out of rereading something that I wrote ages ago I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to demonstrate.
See, this is how you go off the rails. "The review score is probably higher than it should be" is based on...what, exactly? What "should" it be and based on what apparently external and allegedly objective standard? You don't have one. You can't because reviews are inherently subjective. Your arguments would be a lot less unpersuasive if you'd accept this.
Honestly, this is part of the problem. If you insist on persistently resurrecting an old argument you'd do a lot better with "here's why the Klaus twist still sucks" than with "back in ye olde days some people agreed with me and a few otherwise silent like-clickers apparently agree with me so I just want to make sure that people know that."
Repeatedly begging for a fresh outpouring of negativity regarding a game you no longer like is...odd. But thank you for your service.
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- Dec 27, 2017
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In other words, you believe that those players who have just come to the game are so stupid that they are unable to form an opinion of their own, and have to rely on the opinions of others to know whether they like this game or not. So you are compelled to ride in on your white horse to set them straight! Riiiggggghhhhhhht!!!
Don't assume that everyone liked the Klaus turn just because they still play it. Lot of us isn't a fan of it, but unless you're brand new to the story, there's no reason to beat a dead horse, it happened, the story it is what it is, we moved on. Even though there's an aspect of something you don't like, it's not necessarily ruins the whole experience. This was the case with AL as well, or anything that has a contriversarial plot twist in it. The newbies around here can decide for themselves if they want to quit it after the revelation, or if they want to see how it plays out, just as everyone else did.
- Aug 5, 2016
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Take a look at Grapheon, the game has been growing since the Klaus reveal. So yeah, they must be doing something right.
- Aug 22, 2018
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Do you know what happened since then .... we moved on.
You should too.
That was my problem with the scene in AL, it didn't have any impact for me.
We'd had so much drama up until then and they hadn't lived together as a 3 way long enough for it to blossom. It needed at least 2 or 3 more updates without any distracting side drama to get the full impact.
My problem with the twist in Haley wasn't that it happened it was that Haley got a little bit annoying for a couple of updates. It was like the fun banter they had up until then was aimed more to annoy her brother than have fun.
Fortunately it didn't last long and she's more or less how she was pre twist but the twist itself wasn't a massive issue.
Sure it was a bit dark for what was a fun, light hearted game and things that followed along with the reveal of Sandra's mothers problems changed the tone a bit but it didn't kill it.
It certainly didn't cause a big enough issue that i'd need to leave and keep coming back to voice an opinion hardly anyone gives a toads testicle about.
- Aug 30, 2017
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Odd disruptions. Strange coincidences. Unexplained inconveniences. Tiny and missable clues that something was happening behind the scenes but that fully rewarded the player for bringing the story to what seemed like a plateau of accomplishment. And then go ahead and pull the narrative trigger, so to speak. That's how it should've gone.
I'm not sure if I share your view of Haley's behavior post-revelation (I'm not sure that I don't, either; I really don't remember and I'd have to go back and check) but I do think this is one way that this story could've been better: hints that her lighthearted bratty sub character came with some darkness in her past. Oddly, I think the game kinda pulled that off with Sandra — always indirectly — but didn't really get there with Haley.
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To be fair, with Sandra it still could go off track. Unless it is revealed that she is the result of what happened with that campus advisor, and she got treated in a shitty way because of that by her mother because of it, throughout her life, it will become a huge overreach putting her on the same level as Haley.
- Aug 30, 2017
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I don't think that's what the story's attempting, though. Sandra's a once-removed victim, not a firsthand victim like Haley, and the narrative's always been clear about that. It sets up Sandra's ability to understand and empathize with Haley's trauma, not to attempt to equal or compare it. It also quite obviously sets up how Sandra becomes even more intimately entwined in the twins' lives by having a role in how Haley heals. It's yet another reason that I think the H+S path is the core narrative, even if (as I know certain posters hope) that means that the MC ends up with Sandra rather than Haley.
I'm also intrigued by how this subplot will develop for those on a no-Sandra path, if it does. Sandra kicked the MC to the curb pretty hard, which would mean that this would have to come via either Victor or — because she apparently knows all about it — Adriana.
I saw people acting here like on many occasions that she's close to a firsthand victim, regardless of the narration, and because of that how important her role is, while in reality, it's pretty much the same as Victors, unless it goes what I wrote. The subplot can go as it is without her, I see no reason to bring in someone as a supplementary, especially how up until now the MC still handles this mostly alone in both scenarios. Though it could go the same way as it went after the second visit, on the Haley route she cooled off by the club night, which was presented by Lisa, so to the different situations, different characters can pop in, whom on the Sandra route had been cut off short already, like Lisa or Alana was.
Maybe I'm way out of line here, but if in my personal life I'd get knowledge of a 15 year old having consensual sex with an adult I wouldnt make a big deal out of it, and I certainly wouldnt call it rape. At least not with what we know so far.
It gets tricky with them beeing in a teacher-student relationship, but thats pretty much where my issues would stop.
Is it really such a big deal?
Obviously it is a big deal for haley, but ppl all the time have to come to terms with bad decisions they made in the past.
I was kinda surprised by the heavy reaction ingame, and also ppl here calling it a rape-twist.
I don't think it had a big impact on the way the game plays at all at least not so far.
Comparing it to what happened in AL doesnt make any sense to me, because the change the incident had for that game was on a different level.
It gets tricky with them beeing in a teacher-student relationship, but thats pretty much where my issues would stop.
Is it really such a big deal?
Obviously it is a big deal for haley, but ppl all the time have to come to terms with bad decisions they made in the past.
I was kinda surprised by the heavy reaction ingame, and also ppl here calling it a rape-twist.
I don't think it had a big impact on the way the game plays at all at least not so far.
Comparing it to what happened in AL doesnt make any sense to me, because the change the incident had for that game was on a different level.
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- Aug 30, 2017
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Those were almost all people who reflexively hated the twist and were trying to rebrand the game as one with rampant sexual assault of NPCs as a narrative focus. The game has long since proven those people wrong.