VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Walter Victor]

It's not his lesson, it's the lesson to other developers. In the story I mentioned, the developer seemed honestly shocked by the negative comments he received. When I brought up his theft of DPC's plot twist, he went on and on about how highly rated AL was and how successful DPC was. He said that he was not in DPC's league. In his case, this developer used the plot device because he thought people would like it since they all liked it so well in AL.

Sorry, but I don't consider a copycat-developer a serious developer. Whether the developer is copying a good game or dross, it's still a copy. I don't expect complete uniqueness in a porn game, but a developer's own thoughts along the way would be nice.

As far as I'm concerned, you can provide a service to us all by warning developers away from copying someone's else's ideas, including this developer's. It just wouldn't be as good. I'm sure you would be appalled by a poor copy of Haley's Story!

But's let's be serious. That is not what you are doing here. Just how many potential developers are playing this game and reading this thread, just thinking, "Wow, I could do this same thing and make a mint!"?

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Acting Lessons works so well precisely because it does that. The formular is essentially five steps:

Spoiler: Steps

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Take that moment away and Acting Lesson is a completely different novel.

Spoiler: A little explanation of the steps

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My only critique of the AL plot twist was the lack of foreshadowing and set up which basically ruined the ending for what was otherwise a great game.

 

[Ayhsel]

My only critique of the AL plot twist was the lack of foreshadowing and set up which basically ruined the ending for what was otherwise a great game.

I actually loved the plot twist.

Spoiler: Reasons

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And again, it is that moment that makes AL what it is. Foreshadowing would make it a totally different story. My problem with AL was not the foreshadowing but:

Spoiler: open if you care what I say.. have no idea why you should XD

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Back on topic, to Haley. I do believe that the story is now at a point in which it has the danger of becoming longer that it needs. The Klaus plot needs to get somewhere. The other Haley is for me the most interesting plot path that could be developed, giving her a way larger role. Gotta wait and see.

 

[Walter Victor]

In the Haley-only route, there has been no movement in her coming to grips with what happened to her. She went a therapist once and did not discuss the topic. She once admitted to MC that Klaus hurt her. There has been no real discussion about how they stay together, only the parents trying to pull them apart. Not a lot of content for seven updates. More happens in one of WVM's weekly updates. I'm not prejudiced against the game, my hope is that it can return to its former glory. It seems less and less likely and more likely it's going to end with a whimper.

There has been plenty of movement on the recovery front. The whole deal with Haley II is an integral part of that recovery. As for the therapist - did you really expect one session with a therapist was going to make everything all better? This whole issue had been festering with her for nearly a decade. A few weeks (game time - the amount of real time that has elapsed since that release is irrelevant) would never resolve it. The parents trying to pull them apart is one of the problems they have to overcome - not going to happen in a release or two. The reason there has been not much progress in how they stay together is because it is a nearly impossible situation. A situation where Haley has been reduced to suggesting that they just run away. This is a knot that I am very eager to see how (or if) it can be untied.

Actually, you seem like you are just anxious for the game to be over. Given your opinion of the game, that is hardly surprising. Since you do feel as you do, I see no hope whatsoever that these developers (or any others) could do ANYTHING that would satisfy your desire for the game to 'return to its former glory', without rewriting it before Klaus. Perhaps you should undertake that task yourself. I might even support the effort.

 

[Walter Victor]

No replies until tomorrow at the earliest.

Yeah, real life interferes with us all.

 

[akenedy]

The quality of the story took a nose dive with the August update, the update that introduced Klaus. It was more evident to people who were playing month to month. The writer's vision was to have this wrapped up in 4-5 updates. Ptolemy has been working nonstop on projects for years. I don't want to ignore it because without my annoying comments other developers might get the idea that this plot twist is a good idea to copy as happened with AL.

First off approve of any comments, the more variety, and opinions in a topic the better. Second, this kinda writing plot twist is used and was used by writers for ages some are much more clever and in this particular case it could've been implemented much more tactful but what done is done. As for jumping to the conclusion that the devs are milking the customer is fair as an opinion but accusing people with no hard evidence is childish especially since the majority of supporters for the game think otherwise and in this case, the numbers outweigh the individual and the nose dive you reffering in the story is directly attached to your emotions towards that particular incedent, the story got slower in my opinion but did not get worse you just simply lost inerest, although by this point it's pretty obvious that the game is heading to an end and I actually think this game is a great example for future devs of what they want in their game, stick by your original story but be prepared to see it trough because the development process is a long one and passion for a project dwindles over time, it's because of this reason a lot of games see no end or the ending is rushed just to get it over with or cave into the demands and just make money, but then what was the point to start something just to throw or whore it out with the exception that it was the project's core direction from the beginning, you have to have integrity and be committed to your work especially in this kinda work.

 

[Walter Victor]

First off approve of any comments, the more variety, and opinions in a topic the better. Second, this kinda writing plot twist is used and was used by writers for ages some are much more clever and in this particular case it could've been implemented much more tactful but what done is done. As for jumping to the conclusion that the devs are milking the customer is fair as an opinion but accusing people with no hard evidence is childish especially since the majority of supporters for the game think otherwise and in this case, the numbers outweigh the individual and the nose dive you reffering in the story is directly attached to your emotions towards that particular incedent, the story got slower in my opinion but did not get worse you just simply lost inerest, although by this point it's pretty obvious that the game is heading to an end and I actually think this game is a great example for future devs of what they want in their game, stick by your original story but be prepared to see it trough because the development process is a long one and passion for a project dwindles over time, it's because of this reason a lot of games see no end or the ending is rushed just to get it over with or cave into the demands and just make money, but then what was the point to start something just to throw or whore it out with the exception that it was the project's core direction from the beginning, you have to have integrity and be committed to your work especially in this kinda work.

I just love it when critics, who have no financial support in the game, accuse a developer of milking the customers! [This does NOT apply to ptahn, who had been a Patron.] Personally, if a developer drags out a game to make a profit, but keeps the quality of writing high, and me interested, what the hell do I care!? I expect that when this game is finally over, it will be like when I finish a really good book - I will regret having to set it down.

It's like any other book or movie or TV series that is truly engrossing. You can't wait to see what happens, but when it's over, you wish there were more.

Of course, it happens so often in a TV series that the initial concept is brilliant, and great success is achieved. So the series is renewed, and renewed, and renewed... By this time, the creators have run out of their original plan, and are scrambling to generate new scripts. Usually, by this time, the original creators have abandoned ship. Those very long series usually do not come to a satisfying end. They either get cancelled outright, or come up with a contrived ending that satisfies no one. I have come to prefer mini-series. There you have a coherent plot; it comes to an end in a reasonable time-frame; you either like it or you don't.

But then, you have a series like Downton Abbey, which probably ended at just the right time. My wife and I both had withdrawal symptoms when that one ended. The characters were like friends that you cared deeply about.

Much as I feel about the characters in Haley's Story. I want to know what happens to them, but I don't want it to end just yet.

 

[akenedy]

I just love it when critics, who have no financial support in the game, accuse a developer of milking the customers! [This does NOT apply to ptahn, who had been a Patron.] Personally, if a developer drags out a game to make a profit, but keeps the quality of writing high, and me interested, what the hell do I care!? I expect that when this game is finally over, it will be like when I finish a really good book - I will regret having to set it down.

It's like any other book or movie or TV series that is truly engrossing. You can't wait to see what happens, but when it's over, you wish there were more.

Of course, it happens so often in a TV series that the initial concept is brilliant, and great success is achieved. So the series is renewed, and renewed, and renewed... By this time, the creators have run out of their original plan, and are scrambling to generate new scripts. Usually, by this time, the original creators have abandoned ship. Those very long series usually do not come to a satisfying end. They either get cancelled outright, or come up with a contrived ending that satisfies no one. I have come to prefer mini-series. There you have a coherent plot; it comes to an end in a reasonable time-frame; you either like it or you don't.

But then, you have a series like Downton Abbey, which probably ended at just the right time. My wife and I both had withdrawal symptoms when that one ended. The characters were like friends that you cared deeply about.

Much as I feel about the characters in Haley's Story. I want to know what happens to them, but I don't want it to end just yet.

It's all about the writing and commitment to the project really, take for example the Sopranos children actors literally grew into adulthood during the entirety of the show and for me, it never dipped in quality, but you also have to know when to stop, dragging out even if you know you have the support can be harmful. And as for this type of project where you completely depend on the consumer direct support and not a budget, I personally think direct completely transparent communication is key so that no one is left felt hurt, communicate from the start if you have a vision and a story that you want to make and it will stay that way even with delays, some minor compromises and hiccups are of course to be expected since nothing ever goes the way was planned or you are willing to be steered in the preferred direction, as I understand this game was always the first option, but then again everyone has their own opinions.

 

[Cooling Prob]

For me It has been boring for the last few updates. The one night they went out dancing with Lisa and Denis was cool and it finally looks like things are going to develope with little Miss sausie pants

 

[giggitygigity]

The one night they went out dancing with Lisa and Denis was cool and it finally looks like things are going to develope with little Miss sausie pants

Yes, I too would like threesome with Haley and Lisa. Damn, that little minx is such a tease.

 

[EZ8lt]

I still maintain that a developer should plan out, at least in general form, how a game's plot should proceed from beginning to end, and then live or die by that plan. I have seen too many instances of where a developer was persuaded to deviate from the original intent, only to lose interest in his/her own game, resulting in abandonment. Naturally, some minor changes can be incorporated into the plot, if the developer actually thinks it's a good idea.

If the developer's idea for a game is unpopular, perhaps the game should be abandoned, or perhaps the developer needs to get out of the business. Or perhaps the developer might be satisfied to not be the most popular guy on F95, if he/she wants to share their thoughts with the small number of fans who like the game, and profits be damned.

Personally, any time a developer says that major plot development will be guided by polls, I immediately place that game on my Rejected list. For one thing, it tells me that the developer has no coherent thought for the game, except for an initial premise. I am not interested in such a game.

Unless they have a firm grip on the story flow, they shouldn't live or die by that plan. It could backfire pretty easily, because stories do have a tendency to "become alive", and in that case, clinging to the plan forcibly when the story already got it's own flow is a sure way to a train wreck. If a story got it's own life, then the writer should adapt as well.

Having an outsider opinion can get you a fresh view on what you're writing, and that's why it is a good idea to at least listen to community feedback especially if you're publishing your story in the way that these VNs are. Players can give you new perspective, which you could not get on your own because you see it from the inside. This is why it's a good thing that some authors have editors, of course, not everyone needs it, and I don't say that devs should just change the story on whims, but having a third party opinion isn't a bad thing.

I do agree with you completely on not to change the story based on polls.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Of course, it happens so often in a TV series that the initial concept is brilliant, and great success is achieved. So the series is renewed, and renewed, and renewed... By this time, the creators have run out of their original plan, and are scrambling to generate new scripts. Usually, by this time, the original creators have abandoned ship. Those very long series usually do not come to a satisfying end. They either get cancelled outright, or come up with a contrived ending that satisfies no one. I have come to prefer mini-series. There you have a coherent plot; it comes to an end in a reasonable time-frame; you either like it or you don't.

Ugh, so many cancelled series up through the years that really got me fuming...

The end of GOT was a big anti climax.... so yeah not all series that start out good, end good. Or series that start out good that get dragged along forever, and turn into a shit show... LOST anyone? Or Prison break? lol...

 

[Zoey Raven]

Do you really think that Acting Lessons is a good example here?

Many people, including me, hated what happened at the end of Acting Lessons. I still refuse to play the last couple of releases. And yet, there it sits at #10 on the list of highest rated games on F95. And his new game, Being A DIK, resides atop that same list.

And here I am, hating what happened in AL, but yet supporting DrPinkCake as a Patron, and eagerly awaiting his next release of BaDIK.

As for this game, I realize that you despise what happened to it. I'm okay with that. I have always said that anyone who doesn't like a game has every right to criticize it. I'm not okay that you seem compelled to make it your mission to continually disparage this one in an attempt to dissuade others from even trying it. Seems a bit petty to me.

By the way, I also bemoan the lack of testing that is obvious in recent releases. My opinion is that they are so fixated on meeting release dates, and squeezing in content, that proper testing falls through the cracks. However, this game is certainly not lonesome in that regard. Actually, there are very few developers around here that even know what proper testing is. Every week I run across releases that crash in places that any testing at all would have discovered. Oh, well.

I have to say, as much as I disliked the inability to get a good ending in that game. It is one of few games in any genre that actually made me feel something deeply within my soul. It is also one of the only games that said "hey this is life sometimes, deal with it". In terms of this game, it's still one of the most popular games I do a walk-through for. So it's obvious people still like it. I honestly think people who do not like it still even play it just to see what happens. However, like it or not this game has a soul as well.

 

[Cooling Prob]

I have to say, as much as I disliked the inability to get a good ending in that game. It is one of few games in any genre that actually made me feel something deeply within my soul. It is also one of the only games that said "hey this is life sometimes, deal with it". In terms of this game, it's still one of the most popular games I do a walk-through for. So it's obvious people still like it. I honestly think people who do not like it still even play it just to see what happens. However, like it or not this game has a soul as well.

It was a huge shock for me but I didn't hate it...

 

[Smarmint]

I didn't like the way the Klaus reveal was handled at all. I don't mind adding conflict to the story, even unpleasant conflict, but the moment that Haley finally has sex with her brother after 6 months or so (dev time) of teasing and leading up to it should have been played as a joyous occasion. It was very rushed and not sexy at all in my opinion, even before the Klaus reveal. It's the devs story of course, but if he had even waited until the next morning for Haley to bring it up, and lead up to it a little rather than just blurting it out, it would have been an improvement. I am going to keep playing, because I like Haley a lot as as a character, and I feel invested and want to see where the story goes, but for me this VN has just gotten depressing. Each update I play, I feel a pit in my stomach, like I've lost something. I don't know why exactly, that is just how I feel. Does anyone else get this feeling?

The tone is a lot like one of Ptolemy's game's, Intimate Relations, I also feel depressed when I play each update of IR also. IR is even more depressing, such that I may stop playing it. I think it is just the characters. In both games, neither the MC or the main LI (Haley or the daughter in IR) are happy, or are really enjoying being together. They are driven to it, but I don't get the sense that there is much fun or enjoyment in their relationship anymore, more of just fulfilling an obsession or attraction to each other. Fortunately, Alexandria (yet) doesn't have this problem.

Just an observation. Maybe that is what Ptolemy and Viit are going for. Not all games here have to be happy ones. I love Deluca Family and Estate Dominate, and neither are exactly happy stories.

 

[Zoey Raven]

Pardon me if I missed it, but has there been any news on when the next update will drop? I know the last post on Patreon was April 12th.

 

[Deleted member 1253722]

In a few hours the new update will drop on Patreons site I guess.

 

[Zoey Raven]

Ptolemy just wrote "sent" under the Haley's Story tab on his discord. So IDK if that means it will be up soon or not, but just thought I would share.

 

[Walter Victor]

Ptolemy just wrote "sent" under the Haley's Story tab on his discord. So IDK if that means it will be up soon or not, but just thought I would share.

As of this minute, there is nothing yet on their Patreon site.

Actually the game usually only gets to F95 on the 21st.

 

[bobbo69]

Guess we'll just wait till tomorrow then