VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Quetzzz]

coming back to discussion about Haley, I agree that everything is a matter of personal preference, and here I strongly differ from Kadajko and the likes. I'm more of a protective, taking the responsibility type of guy, so for me the vulnerable Haley needing protection is even more attractive than a confident or prickly one.

I can relate to that... But her bratty/prickly side made it difficult for me to wanting to be there for her.

An example I made a note of while playing:
After the squash match with Haley, she teases the MC again about being gay:
MC: "For fuck's sake!"
Haley: "Relax, I'm just joking!"
MC: "Jesus!"
Haley: "Wash the sand out of your vagina, will you?"
I'm now presented with the choice "Do you offer a massage: Yes/No", After that interaction, she can fuck off.

 

[Beduin123]

I can relate to that... But her bratty/prickly side made it difficult for me to wanting to be there for her.

It is just her external protection to hide her vulnerability. In spite of all this (sometimes harsh) teasing she is very fragile inside. At least I can see it. She is checking if you are afraid of her teasing or not. If you aren't, you are mature enough to protect both of you. It is purely female stuff, happens quite often IRL.

There is nothing women value more in men than well grounded self-confidence. Not appearance, not money, not even social status. They have a special sense for that.

 

[Yngling]

Ultimately, Klaus wasn't important because the devs gave up on his story. But Haley makes the connection between what he did to her and subsequently clinging to her brother (when they were both much younger) explicit, and it's fairly clear that her mother isn't blind to the timing of the connection...even if she doesn't know how it manifested.

I'm not so sure about that. Klaus definitely had some sort of impact on Haley but whether or not it had an impact on her relationship with the MC or not, that's the question.

I have a deep and ongoing annoyance with most incest games because almost none of them attempt to justify flipping the attraction switch (much less following through on it) outside porn logic; there's a boy, there's a sister/mother/aunt, and they will inevitably fuck because Reasons. Far too many of them advance plots with things like sleep rape, because the authors aren't mature or sexually experienced enough to conceive of any other possible reason that a woman would want to have sex with someone who'd previously been considered off-limits.

You are absolutely right about that.

I'd find these games a lot more interesting if there were reasonable justifications in the narrative. And I'm certainly not saying that I want incest games to be tortured psychodramas about childhood trauma, the Westermarck Effect/sexual imprinting, or crushing waves of guilt that only decades of therapy can solve, because no one would play games like that.

You are right about that as well. Most people won't want to play something so dark as what actual IRL incest often is. But justification why the incest happens would be really nice. Sibling incest is especially interesting in this respect because there are less power dynamics compared to parent-child incest.

Some games do delve into it, like Our Fate. Some others also approach the topic rather realistically like Intimate Relations.

But you are right, it's unfortunately rare, even though it could really improve depth of the story and the characters.

But one of the reasons I was willing to give the Klaus story the benefit of the doubt — a wasted benefit, as it turned out — was because it could've forced Haley to examine the actual source of her obvious attraction to her brother. A little psychodrama. Some therapy. Some dealing with the guilt. Not taking over the story, but an internal conflict that has to be resolved before she can move forward with their relationship. It could've taken a story and characterization that was already stupendous and made it legendary. They still could've ended up together (with or without beards), but with a much more solid foundation that we actually got.

Obviously, it ended as nothing of the sort. But it remains a wasted opportunity.

I think the question is Klaus was the right vehicle for that, and, in retrospect, I don't think so.

Without Klaus, it would have been a happy romance, with good and likeable characters, which is what, I think, most players wanted.

And a bit of soul searching would have been possible without Klaus as well. For example, by using the parents more.

 

[Walter Victor]

I think the question is Klaus was the right vehicle for that, and, in retrospect, I don't think so.

Right or wrong, Klaus was the vehicle the developers wanted to utilize. It was their story.

Without Klaus, it would have been a happy romance, with good and likeable characters, which is what, I think, most players wanted.

Undoubtedly, although I must say that the revelation of what Klaus had done caused a much more empathetic reaction from ME toward Haley, especially as the details of how it happened were revealed. Other reactions obviously varied.

 

[Quetzzz]

It is just her external protection to hide her vulnerability. In spite of all this (sometimes harsh) teasing she is very fragile inside. At least I can see it. She is checking if you are afraid of her teasing or not. If you aren't, you are mature enough to protect both of you. It is purely female stuff, happens quite often IRL.

I'm not sure about that. Somewhere near the end of the game, Haley insults and negs the MC, then says (paraphrasing) "I'm glad I can be myself around you."
She's a brat, and is (literally) begging to be manhandled. When women tease you like this, and you retreat, you lose man-points.

 

[csbond2]

Merry Christmas Everyone

 

[Segnbora]

But he also does this in a boundary crossing way. I get that he's worried, but checking up on her while she's at therapy? That's a big red flag. I don't understand why Haley wasn't mad at that intrusion.

Because she's terrified that her parents will see what's really going on with her and her brother. She'll do anything to avoid them knowing for sure. Her father is obviously against it, and her mother would think even less of her.

Of course, that's another of the story's failures — all of the endings require them (and perhaps others) to keep their secret forever, including (if you choose to impregnate her) their child/her parents' grandchild — but that, again, is another failure of most incest games. A beard is fine, but eventually the relationship is either going to become public or it's going to have to be relentlessly hidden. It's simply unrealistic.

Again, so many missed opportunities for characterization, to have people actually talk out their issues.

Well, exactly. There's a really terrific, realistic incest game waiting to be written. I don't think realism has to suppress the hotness of the transgression; if anything, I'd think realism would make the perversion hotter. There are plenty of stories on the various sites that host such things that take the subject seriously. I'm not sure I recall a game that took every aspect of the concept seriously. There are better incest games, and halfway through Haley's Story I didn't think I'd be saying that.

From what I remember, Sisterly Lust does this, somewhat. It's been a while, so I could be entirely wrong. The path with the older sister is more difficult and longer, with her love path opening by taking care of her and being there for her, and a submission path using blackmail. (I suspect this game started that whole trope, but I can't be sure.)

It's been a while, but isn't the super-reluctant blonde the oldest sister, while the middle one (Bella?) is the sister that can have a love or d/s route? Anyway, Sisterly Lust is one of my very favorite incest games. I wouldn't say it's realistic, but it treats the fetish with realism and doesn't make it super-easy for the player/MC.

I'm not so sure about that. Klaus definitely had some sort of impact on Haley but whether or not it had an impact on her relationship with the MC or not, that's the question.

Again, this might be me either making things up or extrapolating from arguments I made in this thread back when the game was being developed. But I find it very difficult to believe that a girl already attached to her brother wouldn't cling to that attachment after what Klaus did to her, especially since she obviously couldn't go to her parents (specifically including her mother) about it.

Haley's sexuality was forcibly deformed. That's going to have an impact. Whether or not it had a role in her attachment to/attraction to her brother is obviously unprovable, except perhaps during intense therapy. Personally, I would have loved to see the game ask that question, and maybe even answer it.

But justification why the incest happens would be really nice. Sibling incest is especially interesting in this respect because there are less power dynamics compared to parent-child incest.

The truth is that I don't really enjoy generational incest. Sibling incest (or cousins, etc.) is much more interesting to me, because (as you say) the power dynamics of generational incest add a creepiness that makes it difficult for me to embrace the concept.

I think the question is Klaus was the right vehicle for that, and, in retrospect, I don't think so. Without Klaus, it would have been a happy romance, with good and likeable characters, which is what, I think, most players wanted.

Again, what I thought they might try was something more difficult and challenging. Ultimately, they just threw up their hands and pretended that they'd never made the attempt, which was far worse than never introducing him in the first place.

I know that most people probably wanted a happy incestuous romance. I actually hoped they'd have some difficulties, because that's a more interesting story, and until Klaus they'd experienced almost no friction. And you're right that their parents (or their bosses, or Sandra, or really any of their friends/the MC's lovers) could've been a way to introduce that difficulty without the deformation of Haley's rape.

For Klaus to work it required them to dig into the psychology of Haley's attraction, and they not only weren't up to that task, they actively fled it. Again, it would've been better if they never introduced him.

 

[Quetzzz]

It's been a while, but isn't the super-reluctant blonde the oldest sister, while the middle one (Bella?) is the sister that can have a love or d/s route? Anyway, Sisterly Lust is one of my very favorite incest games. I wouldn't say it's realistic, but it treats the fetish with realism and doesn't make it super-easy for the player/MC.

Yes, you're entirely right. It's been so long that I forgot there are 3 sisters, not 2.

 

[Segnbora]

Yes, you're entirely right. It's been so long that I forgot there are 3 sisters, not 2.

Worry not; you made me want to play the game again.

 

[Yngling]

Of course, that's another of the story's failures — all of the endings require them (and perhaps others) to keep their secret forever, including (if you choose to impregnate her) their child/her parents' grandchild — but that, again, is another failure of most incest games. A beard is fine, but eventually the relationship is either going to become public or it's going to have to be relentlessly hidden. It's simply unrealistic.

I think it's not just a problem with incest games, it's a problem with incest period.

Nobody will accept the relationship so either you move to somewhere nobody knows you or you get a beard and keep lying to everybody.

It's not easy. And that is even not considering how legal it is where you live.

Perhaps it could be an interesting topic in a game. Most incest games end shortly after they finally had sex with each other, but it could be a challenge to continue their relationship while keeping it hidden from everybody.

For the rest, well said!

 

[Quetzzz]

It's not easy. And that is even not considering how legal it is where you live.

In my country, any form of incest is legal between consenting and independent adults. So setting the game in a country with similar laws could take away the legal aspects, and purely focus on the social and ethical/moral aspects of incest.

 

[Yngling]

In my country, any form of incest is legal between consenting and independent adults. So setting the game in a country with similar laws could take away the legal aspects, and purely focus on the social and ethical/moral aspects of incest.

Yes, legality of incest between consenting adults varies quite a bit between countries.

But even if "it" is legal, that does not make it socially acceptable.

Also, in some countries, incestual sex is legal, but incestual marriage is not possible. Which makes having a long-term incestual relationship difficult from an economic viewpoint.

Of course the degree of kinship is also important. In many countries, there is no strong taboo on cousin "incest" for example.

 

[Segnbora]

In my country, any form of incest is legal between consenting and independent adults. So setting the game in a country with similar laws could take away the legal aspects, and purely focus on the social and ethical/moral aspects of incest.

While true, I suspect that people who are especially interested in incest games would find a setting in which it's legal and/or socially acceptable to be far less "hot." I think the transgressive/unacceptable element is likely essential to the fetish. But I'm just guessing; I play (some) incest games because there are so many of them, but it's not my kink.

 

[Yngling]

While true, I suspect that people who are especially interested in incest games would find a setting in which it's legal and/or socially acceptable to be far less "hot."

I get where you are coming from but Desert Stalker proves you wrong.

In that game you can have sex with your daughter in front of anybody, including your wife, friends and the general public and nobody will care. It is still one of the hottest incest games in my opinion, just because of the openness of it all.

Hardly realistic obviously but it was not meant to be, it is meant to depict a society with entirely different morals than ours, and it does so extremely well.

 

[Segnbora]

I get where you are coming from but Desert Stalker proves you wrong.

That you personally find it hot doesn't "prove" a thing, you know. You'd need a properly written poll, which you don't have. I couched my observation as an unsubstantiated opinion. That's what yours is, as well.

 

[Quetzzz]

While true, I suspect that people who are especially interested in incest games would find a setting in which it's legal and/or socially acceptable to be far less “hot.” I think the transgressive/unacceptable element is likely essential to the fetish. But I'm just guessing; I play (some) incest games because there are so many of them, but it's not my kink.

I wouldn't say I'm an incest aficionado personally either. Though what I can say, knowing a married nephew & niece couple, is that it being legal doesn't make it socially acceptable. My remark about having the game happen in a setting where it's legal, was mostly in context of letting the story focus on the social aspects of the taboo relationship, without that extra baggage. After all, I imagine a brother/sister couple won't say (at first) “we can't because it's illegal”, instead of “we can't because what if x found out.” The social aspect always hits first, the legal aspect is more of a practicality, a concern for later.
It being illegal might be more convincing if blackmail (or the like) comes into play, though I think this is a different kink.

Similarly, father/daughter stories don't really go into what happens with a 20-year age difference. At face value, 40 vs. 20 is doable, but what about 60 vs. 40? Harem stories rarely delve into how the MC will support his wives and 26 children. Practicality is less sexy than the relationship itself or the immediate social repercussions.

I think, the main aspect of the incest kink, is the actual transformation of a Platonic love to a romantic love (which would be why step-relationships still work). And with father/daughter, that of a caretaker being seduced by his charge. But, I also think that with F/D relationships, there's a finer line between the D coming across as lustful, instead of romantically engaging. (Dating my Daughter falls in to this trap, I think. With the D becoming sexually interested in other people, even seeing sex as a reward for a good deed by a man she's interested in.)

Concerning Haley's Story, I think this game somewhat subverts the incest trope in AVN because it'll usually be the male/MC who will pine after his sister first.

And finally, speaking from my own experience, I watch incest porn because it typically features body types I like. I don't think it's far-fetched that this can cause a reverse association, where subconsciously, 'incest' just becomes a synonym for “imagery I can get off to.”

 

[troube12345]

Can I ask something to those who have finished the game? In the game, do we just click to Pass the dialogue (I think we also select dialogue from time to time) or are there other mechanics in the game? For example, are there different mechanics like in Glamour and Milf City games? Or can I choose who I communicate with at that moment? I want to know what I will encounter when I download the game

 

[Walter Victor]

Can I ask something to those who have finished the game? In the game, do we just click to Pass the dialogue (I think we also select dialogue from time to time) or are there other mechanics in the game? For example, are there different mechanics like in Glamour and Milf City games? Or can I choose who I communicate with at that moment? I want to know what I will encounter when I download the game

There are no sandbox or free-roam elements or mini-games in this game. You have choices... that's it.

 

[troube12345]

There are no sandbox or free-roam elements or mini-games in this game. You have choices... that's it.

Thanks for answer..

 

[Segnbora]

Can I ask something to those who have finished the game? In the game, do we just click to Pass the dialogue (I think we also select dialogue from time to time) or are there other mechanics in the game? For example, are there different mechanics like in Glamour and Milf City games? Or can I choose who I communicate with at that moment? I want to know what I will encounter when I download the game

To expand on Walter Victor's answer: you have both consequential and inconsequential choices in the earlier stages of the game. There are...IIRC...three women other than Haley where your choices matter, and one that matters more than the others because it essentially bifurcates the story. As you'll see that you will be offered the companionship of more than three other women, you can correctly conclude that your choices regarding those women don't matter at all. Most of the rest of your choices are a basic binary of choosing to be nice to Haley or not, though in the end those choices don't matter that much (or perhaps at all; it's been a while).

Later, you might be given choices but they don't matter all that much versus choices you made earlier...with the exception of choosing which of the various endings you're going to get, which is something you've got to start thinking about soon after certain characters are introduced rather than late in the game. I think that, if you play the game, it's going to become pretty obvious which characters have endings and how you can pursue them.

All that said, Haley's Story isn't a deeply choice-driven game. Most of the endings are more or less good, or at least happy. Getting the exact one you want might require a bit of care, but you're not going to end up in some hellscape if you make the wrong choices. You will never (again, IIRC) suffer negative consequences if you choose to have sex with someone other than Haley, so you should treat those choices as a stylistic/role-playing option. That said, choosing to have sex with certain non-Haley characters may affect the narrative. With perhaps one very small exception, however, I don't think any of the choices are misleading or tricky. I think you have to be pretty timid, or not speak English as a first language, to need a walkthrough unless you're very keen on a specific ending.