VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[Yngling]

That you personally find it hot doesn't "prove" a thing, you know. You'd need a properly written poll, which you don't have. I couched my observation as an unsubstantiated opinion. That's what yours is, as well.

Not really. Desert Stalker is a pretty popular game in which the incest (real or step, depending on patch, both are canon) is one of the main focusses. It's popularity proves that it's more than just my opinion. If people hated the game, or the way incest is portrayed in it, it would have had plenty of backlash and would not have been so popular.

But anyway, I am not trying to be antagonistic and apologize if I came across as such. Perhaps I shouldn't have written "proves you wrong" but given Desert Stalkers content and popularity I do think that kind of portrayal of incest can be appealing as well.

I know of two father-daughter relationships that happened within solid families...one of which turned out okay

Could you perhaps elaborate on what you mean by "okay"?

For some reason I find it more possible if siblings just grow out of it compared to parents. After all, adolescense is a period where people try out different things and grow out of many of them. But for fathers it is difficult to let go, and I guess even more so if sex and/or romance are involved.

Haven't played that one, but looking at the sample images, it might not be in my wheelhouse.

Sample images aside (in the game they have been redone to make them a bit less cartoonish) I do think this game may be for you. Even if the art style isn't for you I think the story will be.

I think it's one of the few games which make a F/D relationship work without being creepy. The other games in the series become a bit far-fetched in my opinion and too much harem (of which I am not a big fan) but A Petal Among Thorns is really good.

 

[Quetzzz]

Haven't played that one, but looking at the sample images, it might not be in my wheelhouse.

A game I fell in love with due to its story and writing (and not shying away from adult emotional themes) is Wicked Choices, it does include some incest, but it's not the main focus of the story.
If a good story and characterization is what you're looking for, either of my two suggestions would work (IMO). But I also understand that if the game isn't appealing visually to you, then you might as well go read a book.

Well, good. Convince me. Make the daughter the instigator if it's easier (which it would be, and which would also be so much hotter). The father in DMD was the worst sort of groomer: an inadvertent, fumbling, but relentless one. Depicting someone who was in more of a grey area would at least be interesting. Creepy, for sure. Make it so I'm not sure these two should end up together. And then convince me otherwise.

Exactly! This is one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to the 2nd Wicked Choices game (Bed Chambers). It will be a game about NTR, but not a typical NTR game. Imagine being an MC who becomes disabled, and now has to navigate his relationship being impotent. Will he allow his wife to seek pleasure elsewhere, how far will he take it? What does she want and need? I think there's a real story here, and an emotional journey to take. I detest NTR, don't get me wrong. At least the way it's typically done (as a subset of FemDom). But give me a believable story and characterization, let me crawl into the MC's skin, and see what makes him tick... And I could love this game.

And that probably has a lot to do with how I view these things, because I'm a professional and published writer and have zero talent in any of the other necessary disciplines (I mean, I used to be able to program in about five languages, but none of them were ever Python).

To be fair, depending on how complex you see the game, not a lot of Python knowledge is needed. I've looked at the code of quite a few games, and except for minigames, the core functions (choices/pathing) aren't that complex at all. Rendering scenes and animations, on the other hand, can become very complex, time-consuming and expensive regarding assets.

Does it? Not my memory, but again...it just creeped me out.

Nooooo! Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. She isn't. I meant that I don't mind seeing characters with Ava's body type. Small and thin can be sexy, but I'd also need the adult features to be present.

 

[Quetzzz]

I will not say too much about the intergenerational whether M/S or F/D, but I also think one of the problems there is fans and devs like the protagonists to be quite innocent most of time. The problem with that is though it either makes chars childish and act in an age inappropriate way (like come on how many 17 yo women or men do you know that never had a date or a kiss yet or not been in at least one relationship sexual or not) or we get for example a son at20 suddenly getting a stiffy for mom, while nothing really changed in their relationship. It just makes no sense that someone that has been around you for years and you find physically attractive would only give you such a reaction when you are legally adult ......

I think that's a fair point, but there are ways around this. Like for Segnbora a protagonist doesn't have to be black & white for me. STWA: Unbroken might be a great example of this. Some gray areas can be good to tell an actual story in. Let players decide how they navigate this relationship.
In the case of sibling incest, the MC was a troubled boy as a teen and when his hormones started raging, he convinced his sister that sexual acts were part of a secret game. His parents found out, and kicked him out to live with distant family on a farm somewhere. He grew up damaged and ashamed, constantly being watched by his guardians. The sister didn't have it easy either, growing up. Now, years later, they're both adults, and she's suddenly standing in front of his door... Story happens. Why is she there? Will there be closure for either of them? Has the MC really changed, or is there just something wrong with him, maybe her being there and the MC getting a chance to put things right, is a catalyst for change? What did the sister experience, and how did this influence her growing up? Sure, this won't be a porn story, but it can be an erotic one in addition to the themes it explores.

As for the stiffy for mom... The MC could have had these urges all his life, but never acted on them out of fear of consequences. Now that he moved out, he tries to change the relationship between him and his mother. Being independent gives him less to lose if things go awry.

Even the reverse could work, a doting and overprotective mother (who is also a narcissist) doesn't want 'her boy' to leave the nest. She's chased off every girlfriend he ever had, and isolated him. At the start of the game, the MC is comfortably living at home, but something starts gnawing at him about her behavior. To keep him close, she's flirty and seductive around him, he can't leave her, so she has to pull out all the stops. Does the MC give in to her? Use her for his gain? Or does he try to break free from her manipulations?

If we are to believe something changes suddenly ( or maybe not disbelieve too hard) either something really shocking needs to happen that changes their relationship or it has been building up likely for at least a year or 5. Acting as if people do not have sexual feelings or emotions and/or experiences before they become of legal age just makes things unbelievable or in case of a young adult due to way they act makes it feel rapey/scummy. Whether you like picture perfect or not, but at least with that oldest daughter it made sense and did not feel like taking advantage.

Exactly! This shocking thing could be the MC winning the lottery, and his destitute family members pulling all the stops to get their gold digging hands on it. A bit far-fetched, but even one family member considering taking things too far, could open the door for an incest plot to happen. And personally, I'd find this more believable than just "MC went away for 6 months, now his mother and 3 sisters want to jump his bones." Different family members would have different methods of trying to get close, and maybe you have that one pure sister who is looking out for you... Or is she?
Personally, like my examples above, my preference is that the situation has been building over time, and the player comes in at a turning point to influence the story.

I've played picture perfect and gave it a good review on Steam. It's been months and I can't remember specifics, though. (I also noted that I liked the game more than "Secret Summer", by the same dev.)

 

[DA22]

I think that's a fair point, but there are ways around this. Like for Segnbora a protagonist doesn't have to be black & white for me. STWA: Unbroken might be a great example of this. Some gray areas can be good to tell an actual story in. Let players decide how they navigate this relationship.
In the case of sibling incest, the MC was a troubled boy as a teen and when his hormones started raging, he convinced his sister that sexual acts were part of a secret game. His parents found out, and kicked him out to live with distant family on a farm somewhere. He grew up damaged and ashamed, constantly being watched by his guardians. The sister didn't have it easy either, growing up. Now, years later, they're both adults, and she's suddenly standing in front of his door... Story happens. Why is she there? Will there be closure for either of them? Has the MC really changed, or is there just something wrong with him, maybe her being there and the MC getting a chance to put things right, is a catalyst for change? What did the sister experience, and how did this influence her growing up? Sure, this won't be a porn story, but it can be an erotic one in addition to the themes it explores.

As for the stiffy for mom... The MC could have had these urges all his life, but never acted on them out of fear of consequences. Now that he moved out, he tries to change the relationship between him and his mother. Being independent gives him less to lose if things go awry.

Even the reverse could work, a doting and overprotective mother (who is also a narcissist) doesn't want 'her boy' to leave the nest. She's chased off every girlfriend he ever had, and isolated him. At the start of the game, the MC is comfortably living at home, but something starts gnawing at him about her behavior. To keep him close, she's flirty and seductive around him, he can't leave her, so she has to pull out all the stops. Does the MC give in to her? Use her for his gain? Or does he try to break free from her manipulations?


Exactly! This shocking thing could be the MC winning the lottery, and his destitute family members pulling all the stops to get their gold digging hands on it. A bit far-fetched, but even one family member considering taking things too far, could open the door for an incest plot to happen. And personally, I'd find this more believable than just "MC went away for 6 months, now his mother and 3 sisters want to jump his bones." Different family members would have different methods of trying to get close, and maybe you have that one pure sister who is looking out for you... Or is she?
Personally, like my examples above, my preference is that the situation has been building over time, and the player comes in at a turning point to influence the story.

I've played picture perfect and gave it a good review on Steam. It's been months and I can't remember specifics, though. (I also noted that I liked the game more than "Secret Summer", by the same dev.)

True most of that, but for example MC would have had stifies for her likely for years instead of suddenly noticing at 20 yo she looks good, while hormones playing up and experience controlling himself and Mom 5 years younger he would not at 15 , just for good reasons not acted on them. Same as that overprotective mother for example you mentioned might consider the idea of taking advantage of her son as long as she sees him as a kid as unthinkable, but when she considers him an adult fair game. Not an incest taboo of mommy but more an abuse taboo, that keeps her back from going too far. (If you overlook the grooming part and more or less isolating him as not going way too far already of course ) Measuring My Cum has at least part of this as setup story, but low hope that one will continue.

Ever played my roommate, my sister? Bit older game and not sure if dev intended it as such, but if want to read into it you could see it as her having behaved pretty wild to deny her attraction and connection to her brother by throwing herself in stupid ways to anyone popular and things changing when both move out to college where her not great experiences actually might have strengthened her need for him as someone she can trust to always care for her.

 

[Quetzzz]

Ever played my roommate, my sister? Bit older game and not sure if dev intended it as such, but if want to read into it you could see it as her having behaved pretty wild to deny her attraction and connection to her brother by throwing herself in stupid ways to anyone popular and things changing when both move out to college where her not great experiences actually might have strengthened her need for him as someone she can trust to always care for her.

This sounds like something I want to play, depending on the characterization, it could be an interesting story.
I'm mildly concerned by you saying "not sure if intended", it gives me the impression that I'd need to read between the lines to reach that conclusion, and there isn't much introspection to be had.

Edit: it has twins. Downloading.

 

[DA22]

This sounds like something I want to play, depending on the characterization, it could be an interesting story.
I'm mildly concerned by you saying "not sure if intended", it gives me the impression that I'd need to read between the lines to reach that conclusion, and there isn't much introspection to be had.

Edit: it has twins. Downloading.

Yeah you need to read between the lines a bit, but if take her background, some talks where she describes her ideal lover and such also into account, some self sabotage is not that hard to imagine on her part in past. It would make more sense as one of the non incest endings for her My opinion though. Pretty fun game on the whole anyway even if I do not like one ending, ah well rest makes up for it and also has some nice humor and oh my god moments

 

[Quetzzz]

Yeah you need to read between the lines a bit, but if take her background, some talks where she describes her ideal lover and such also into account, some self sabotage is not that hard to imagine on her part in past. It would make more sense as one of the non incest endings for her My opinion though. Pretty fun game on the whole anyway even if I do not like one ending, ah well rest makes up for it and also has some nice humor and oh my god moments

I'm intrigued. That said, I'm pretty peculiar in the way I play AVN. If a game lets me, I'll play the story while remaining celibate. I want the story to give me a reason to pursue an LI. From what I'm reading, I don't think MSMR allows this, but it's not necessarily a dealbreaker either.

 

[Yngling]

Ever played my roommate, my sister? Bit older game and not sure if dev intended it as such, but if want to read into it you could see it as her having behaved pretty wild to deny her attraction and connection to her brother by throwing herself in stupid ways to anyone popular and things changing when both move out to college where her not great experiences actually might have strengthened her need for him as someone she can trust to always care for her.

That is indeed an excellent recommendation! I did really like that game.

It has a slight NTR feel to it, because the sister (somewhat like Haley) is kind of wild and I personally prefer virgins, but it was still a great game.

And you might be right about your analysis as well.

 

[DA22]

I'm intrigued. That said, I'm pretty peculiar in the way I play AVN. If a game lets me, I'll play the story while remaining celibate. I want the story to give me a reason to pursue an LI. From what I'm reading, I don't think MSMR allows this, but it's not necessarily a dealbreaker either.

Depends a bit how you play the game and see the relation between brother and sister in it, but only you can decide that. Taste is personal after all, I found plenty in game to enjoy myself, but yeah if do not want to buy in the brother/sister dynamic game becomes more about the brother getting out of his shell with some help/prodding of his sister.

 

[Quetzzz]

Depends a bit how you play the game and see the relation between brother and sister in it, but only you can decide that. Taste is personal after all, I found plenty in game to enjoy myself, but yeah if do not want to buy in the brother/sister dynamic game becomes more about the brother getting out of his shell with some help/prodding of his sister.

Both options can be interesting. I'm open to both, I'm just sensitive to how the game/story itself frames these relationships. For instance, take Chasing Sunsets. I dislike how Mallory is pushed onto the MC, same for Sandra in Haley's Story.
With Sandra, I didn't feel a bond. If the MC didn't kiss her on the first date, I think it should've started a parallel path where the MC gets to friend zone her immediately, or tries a 2nd date. With not being interested in Sandra, it even seemed as if Haley was pushing the MC to stay in that relationship. And, I have to mention how lame that breakup eventually was. The path to it is one of being passive, and just waiting for her to get the message.

 

[DA22]

Both options can be interesting. I'm open to both, I'm just sensitive to how the game/story itself frames these relationships. For instance, take Chasing Sunsets. I dislike how Mallory is pushed onto the MC, same for Sandra in Haley's Story.
With Sandra, I didn't feel a bond. If the MC didn't kiss her on the first date, I think it should've started a parallel path where the MC gets to friend zone her immediately, or tries a 2nd date. With not being interested in Sandra, it even seemed as if Haley was pushing the MC to stay in that relationship. And, I have to mention how lame that breakup eventually was. The path to it is one of being passive, and just waiting for her to get the message.

True, then sometimes that is the differing vision of a dev to ours to a certain situation where considering who her uncle is in this game, somewhat more passiveness might have not been unwise considering his and his sisters employment situation. Think in this game originally only Sandra as a non avoidable option was planned besides only bro-sis and devs partly on reception of her changed that. Whether that also partly led to the lesser endings since they differed from originally planned story could be possible.

 

[Quetzzz]

True, then sometimes that is the differing vision of a dev to ours to a certain situation where considering who her uncle is in this game, somewhat more passiveness might have not been unwise considering his and his sisters employment situation.

That's fair, but following that reasoning, it would've been a practical option to not date Sandra because the MC doesn't want to piss off his boss.
The MC also isn't concerned with the potential fallout of boinking his sister's boss either.

Think in this game originally only Sandra as a non avoidable option was planned besides only bro-sis and devs partly on reception of her changed that. Whether that also partly led to the lesser endings since they differed from originally planned story could be possible.

I've noticed a few points where the game seemed to wildly change direction. Maybe the devs listened to feedback too much, and lost their vision in the process.

 

[Walter Victor]

I've noticed a few points where the game seemed to wildly change direction. Maybe the devs listened to feedback too much, and lost their vision in the process.

The straw that broke the developers' backs was when Patreon dropped the hammer on them about, "Oh my God, there's incest in this game!" Having to wrote two separate routes, when the non-incest route made no sense to them, definitely put them on the trail to disinterest. They pared things back, dropped promising avenues, and ultimately bailed.

 

[Quetzzz]

The straw that broke the developers' backs was when Patreon dropped the hammer on them about, "Oh my God, there's incest in this game!" Having to wrote two separate routes, when the non-incest route made no sense to them, definitely put them on the trail to disinterest. They pared things back, dropped promising avenues, and ultimately bailed.

That's a real shame, I can't help but think about what the game could've been. It undoubtedly has things going for it, and it's sad that they couldn't realize their vision. :-/

 

[Quetzzz]

Depends a bit how you play the game and see the relation between brother and sister in it, but only you can decide that. Taste is personal after all, I found plenty in game to enjoy myself, but yeah if do not want to buy in the brother/sister dynamic game becomes more about the brother getting out of his shell with some help/prodding of his sister.

A few minutes in, I've quit the game... The game presented me with a few choices, but a choice that would've actually mattered "Fuck Mrs. Sollain: yes/no", doesn't happen. I was already a bit put-off by the weakness of the MC (I understand introversion, and wanting to learn how to talk to girls.) But talking to 'mommy' about girls, and immediately giving in to Mrs. Sollain is a step too far. If that's the general tone of the game, it's just not for me.

 

[Penfold Mole]

If that's the general tone of the game, it's just not for me.

It's most definitely not the general tone. But sure, the MC of this game is definitely not a dick swinging macho man all the girls around him bow and submit to. He is rather introverted and inexperienced in the beginning of the game. Throughout the game he is gaining more experience with the help of the sister as a wingwoman. There's also tons of hilarious comical situations and less or more subtle humor involved.
That unavoidable scene with the clingy mature neighbor can be counted as one of the somewhat comical mishaps of his, if you are able to see it that way.

But if a macho MC is a must have requirement for you and you are unable to laugh over his occasional mishaps and inadequacies, the game probably really isn't for you and you should avoid it like a plague.

 

[Quetzzz]

But if a macho MC is a must have requirement for you and you are unable to laugh over his occasional mishaps and inadequacies, the game probably really isn't for you and you should avoid it like a plague.

That's clearly not what my post said.
I'll rephrase; I'm fine with him being introverted and inexperienced with women, I'm not fine with him having no standards at all.

 

[Penfold Mole]

Then just play it and see for yourself. Mrs. Sollain won't "force" herself on the MC more than once.
You'll have lots of laughs, guaranteed.
__________________________

I just realized that we're in a totally wrong thread. This is the Haley's Story thread and we're totally offtopic here with all the talks about Sumodeine's "My Sister, My Roommate"

We're gonna get our asses handed to us by the moderators

 

[DA22]

A few minutes in, I've quit the game... The game presented me with a few choices, but a choice that would've actually mattered "Fuck Mrs. Sollain: yes/no", doesn't happen. I was already a bit put-off by the weakness of the MC (I understand introversion, and wanting to learn how to talk to girls.) But talking to 'mommy' about girls, and immediately giving in to Mrs. Sollain is a step too far. If that's the general tone of the game, it's just not for me.

What Penfold above me said, MC can be a bit cringey at start and he does make a few mistakes also later, he is a bit of a late bloomer. Then again that is also part of why him ending up with his sister in that situation is believable, he has as much a need of her as other way around.

 

[Segnbora]

There's also this (while we're on the subject of incest games): one of the key failures of both Haley's Story and DMD is that they don't solve the key problem. This particular game just threw up its hands, whether there's a beard or not, leaving all future questions/conflicts to the imagination of the player. DMD somehow deluded itself into thinking that marrying the father and daughter was the goal, when in fact they're still an "agent"/"client" couple who live together, go everywhere together, and about whom a truly staggering number of poeple know the truth (including Tara, who has no reason to stop hating Dee). That's sure as hell not a way to "solve" an incestuous relationship. They both kick the can, and neither cares, but at least DMD's devs pretended to care, even though they failed just as spectacularly.

Spoiler: how to fix DMD

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I don't think there was a way to "fix" Haley's ending other than a full confession.

I will not say too much about the intergenerational whether M/S or F/D, but I also think one of the problems there is fans and devs like the protagonists to be quite innocent most of time.

Yeah, I hate that. I hate unlikely/impossible virgins, as you go on to describe. Just get on with the incestuous sexytimes and stop pretending that your impossibly hot sister has been considering becoming a nun.

Whether you like picture perfect or not, but at least with that oldest daughter it made sense and did not feel like taking advantage.

You're talking about Sisterly Lust? Yeah, Liza was a solid, well-considered character arc. I have deep difficulties with both Bella routes, but Liza and Rachel were wonderful.

Not really. Desert Stalker is a pretty popular game in which the incest (real or step, depending on patch, both are canon) is one of the main focusses. It's popularity proves that it's more than just my opinion. If people hated the game, or the way incest is portrayed in it, it would have had plenty of backlash and would not have been so popular.

That's not really my point. As noted just above, I think the Liza arc in Sisterly Love is incredibly hot. Do I think an actual Liza, tied to her church and her beliefs, would have sex with her newly arrived brother? Never. I don't think it's realistic. If anything, I think Liza would turn them in to the (whatever that horrid made-up organization was). My argument is that I don't think finding the MC finally nailing Liza is proof that SL got an incestuous path absolutely right, because I honestly think it's both hot and utterly ludicrous.

Could you perhaps elaborate on what you mean by "okay"?

They spent a fair bit of time, including with a therapist, talking it out, and agreed it was wrong and would never happen again, but that her grandchildren didn't deserve a hostile relationship with their grandfather because he'd been a creep in the past. I'm not saying it was all sunshine and roses, but they made it work. There was never complete trust again (between them or between them and her kids), but they arranged their time together to compensate for that.

For some reason I find it more possible if siblings just grow out of it compared to parents.

I'm not sure I see this, but maybe I do; if the attraction's there, it lingers or it doesn't. I certainly understand spontaneous sibling experimentation being a temporary thing. And, you know, that might be an interesting game. A blossoming of incest that fades away and then, finally, ends as one or more of the partners find someone else. There'd have to be more to it, of course, but it's not a bad framework.

Sample images aside (in the game they have been redone to make them a bit less cartoonish) I do think this game may be for you.

It's the apparent age, not the graphics themselves.

A game I fell in love with due to its story and writing (and not shying away from adult emotional themes) is Wicked Choices,

I played the hell out of it when it was in development. Great game. Weird, but great.

Nooooo! Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. She isn't. I meant that I don't mind seeing characters with Ava's body type. Small and thin can be sexy, but I'd also need the adult features to be present.

It's fine. But Ava will always read as about 14 to me, and I just can't. I don't even care what the game text says, or how she can pass F95's rule whatever. To me, she's a child. My issue, not anyone else's.