VN Ren'Py Completed Haley's Story [v1.1 Pre-Patched] [Viitgames]

[erkper]

yeah, but that choice was bullshit, if I were really there there is no way that I would leave someone behind, or we all would die together or we all would be saved, at the very least MC would die with the girl that stayed behind while trying to save her. If the choices aren't satisfying in the context of what's happening it just pisses people off, creating a scenario and limiting your actions to ensure an outcome like that felt manipulative, the player doesn't turn himself against the character that forced that choice, but the writer himself

Not saying I disagree with your opinion of the choice presented (forced on the player,) just saying it was what the dev wanted. And honestly, the dev did warn us all at the beginning it wasn't a happy-go-lucky fuckfest story. I really, really hate the choice(s) but it is magnificent writing. As for your choice in a RL situation such as that... brave words, I don't know you well enough to judge them, and I hope you NEVER have to actually make that decision.

 

[gestved]

Not saying I disagree with your opinion of the choice presented (forced on the player,) just saying it was what the dev wanted. And honestly, the dev did warn us all at the beginning it wasn't a happy-go-lucky fuckfest story. I really, really hate the choice(s) but it is magnificent writing. As for your choice in a RL situation such as that... brave words, I don't know you well enough to judge them, and I hope you NEVER have to actually make that decision.

my problem is less with the choice and more on how it is presented, the writer need to make us hate the character that brought upon us that choice, not himself, like for example the dark knight in the scene where joker makes batman decide on saving harvey dent or rachel, it was a similar choice, but no one was pissed at the writer, we were pissed at the joker, batman couldn't do anything beyond what he did, everyone else in his place would have done the same. It's not the case with acting lessons, everyone probably wouldn't just choose one and fuck the other, that's my problem with it

if the writer made it like the MC really absolutely couldn't save them both no matter what, like the scenario in the dark knight, them it would be ok

I guess a lot of people also have a problem on how the fire comes from absolutely nowhere, everything was fine and suddenly a fire in your house and one of them will die, and that makes it feel manipulative as well. Every writer can suddenly start a fire and make your choose for the sake of being impactful, but it makes the characters death absolutely meaningless, but even though meaningless deaths are a part of life, in literature they are usually boring as hell, and comes off as lazy writing. I was far from sad when it happened, which would be the desired reaction from the audience, I was pissed off.

 

[erkper]

OK, I respect your opinion there. I'm done discussing it though, at least in this thread.

 

[gestved]

I was under the impression that Haley had figured out her feelings for her brother and really wanted to be with him from the start, but after this update I guess it's not that simple, and she is still confused as fuck, even though she basically single handedly brought us to the situation we're in right now, MC is totally compliant, his feelings for Haley emerge as she makes advances on him.

She basically shuts MC down on the possibility of a real relationship and making anything sexual, and credits their behavior basically on the fact that they are so close and always made everything together, and there is no problem in kissing and cuddling together in private since it's just that they're very affectionate, even though ir would be misinterpreted by others. But she is lying to herself, it's obvious that she wishes for a relationship with MC, and is scared to death to lose him and not being with him, but for some reason she is also scared of embracing a relationship with MC. There is some hints that indicate that Haley does have deeper feelings for MC

Spoiler: Haley Desires

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Spoiler: Getting rich

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maybe she is fearful of her brother not being in love with her the same way she is with him, and for him sex would be only like a "siblings with benefits", and is fearful of having her heart broken by him not being on the same page as her and losing the relationship that they have right now in the process, I think the next scene is a good indication of that

Spoiler: Haley doubtful

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she is probably fearful of having a relationship, her brother not fulfilling her expectations and not being able to go back to what they had before

the truth is that she acts very contradictorily, at the same time that she makes MC get into a relationship with Sandra, she kisses him, sleeps with him, cuddles, shuts him down, makes him closer to Diane as well, demands that he show affection, she is confused alright, after playing this version I remembered this part in south park with kenny


seems about the same to me

I guess that's the problem with making the MC so passive, Haley basically has to decide everything for him, so she contradicts herself all the time

 

[Avaron1974]

It's one of the dangers in trying to write a compelling story. By making the side characters something other than cardboard cutouts, and giving them interactions with the MC that go beyond "you have biggie dickie, and me sucky sucky", sometimes players end up preferring them to the main love interest. And in the end, they're disappointed. Personally, I prefer it like this. But to each his own.

But be of good cheer. If you really like Sandra, maybe give Pto a shout. Put her in one of his other games after the MC and her break up. Maybe make a game based on her.

I foolishly assumed after being pushed into a relationship that it would be like other games with a similar premise, you can either stay in that relationship or leave it for another girl.

Although Haley's story does not have an incest tag yet, you don't have to be a genius to figure it out - Haley is your sister+it's her story+it's an adult game, what do you expect?!

You mention it being called Haley's Story like that means something. There is a game here called Melody, the story is about her but you can date whoever you want and just be friends with her.

See when you give people multiple girls to sleep with they expect options.

Here we have a girl with clear relationship issues that's been hurt in the past doing her best to make it work when she's about to get fucked over by a guy that can barely think for himself that wants to fuck his manipulative bitchy sister.

 

[Walter Victor]

Here we have a girl with clear relationship issues that's been hurt in the past doing her best to make it work when she's about to get fucked over by a guy that can barely think for himself that wants to fuck his manipulative bitchy sister.

I don't understand. If you really are so turned off by Haley's character, and think so little of the MC, why do you continue to play this game, since it is obvious to you that the developer is going to keep pushing that manipulative bitch on you? Nor is the MC likely to not fuck over Sandra. Sounds like a big load of frustration that could easily be shrugged off.

 

[Walter Victor]

I was under the impression that Haley had figured out her feelings for her brother and really wanted to be with him from the start, but after this update I guess it's not that simple, and she is still confused as fuck, even though she basically single handedly brought us to the situation we're in right now, MC is totally compliant, his feelings for Haley emerge as she makes advances on him.

She basically shuts MC down on the possibility of a real relationship and making anything sexual, and credits their behavior basically on the fact that they are so close and always made everything together, and there is no problem in kissing and cuddling together in private since it's just that they're very affectionate, even though ir would be misinterpreted by others. But she is lying to herself, it's obvious that she wishes for a relationship with MC, and is scared to death to lose him and not being with him, but for some reason she is also scared of embracing a relationship with MC. There is some hints that indicate that Haley does have deeper feelings for MC

Spoiler: Haley Desires

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Spoiler: Getting rich

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maybe she is fearful of her brother not being in love with her the same way she is with him, and for him sex would be only like a "siblings with benefits", and is fearful of having her heart broken by him not being on the same page as her and losing the relationship that they have right now in the process, I think the next scene is a good indication of that

Spoiler: Haley doubtful

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she is probably fearful of having a relationship, her brother not fulfilling her expectations and not being able to go back to what they had before

the truth is that she acts very contradictorily, at the same time that she makes MC get into a relationship with Sandra, she kisses him, sleeps with him, cuddles, shuts him down, makes him closer to Diane as well, demands that he show affection, she is confused alright, after playing this version I remembered this part in south park with kenny


seems about the same to me

I guess that's the problem with making the MC so passive, Haley basically has to decide everything for him, so she contradicts herself all the time

Haley does indeed seem to have complex motivations. Think of what she does with Diane. Haley pushes Diane on the MC, but warns her that the MC has a girlfriend. So is Haley trying to give the MC another option to herself, or not. Not to mention the push and pull with Sandra.

Haley is one torn individual!

 

[Walter Victor]

Of course, the MC is given real options with 3 different women. Adriana, Lisa and Alana. So the MC can simultaneously be working on relationships with his girlfriend, his girlfriend's best friend, and his girlfriend's best friend's sister. Not to mention his own sister, and his sister's boss! We haven't been given any real option to develop a relationship with Diane yet, but it sure looks like that's coming too.

I've been going for all of the above. I'm sure it will bite me severely in the ass at some point, and I'll have to backtrack to some old saves. But I'll be having a lot of fun till that happens.

 

[Alfius]

I foolishly assumed after being pushed into a relationship that it would be like other games with a similar premise, you can either stay in that relationship or leave it for another girl.

Here we have a girl with clear relationship issues that's been hurt in the past doing her best to make it work when she's about to get fucked over by a guy that can barely think for himself that wants to fuck his manipulative bitchy sister.

That is not the way I see it. I'm going to generalise and put men as a stereotype. (Of course not all men are like this.)

Al lot of men throughout their life choose to do to do the right thing, instead of the what they want to do.
If you think about in the past men choosing to marry a girl if they got her pregnant, because it's the right thing today.
Boys going of to war because it's the right thing to do. Fathers staying in loveless marriages, because of the kids and it's the right thing to do. Society as a hole expects man to do his duty. Provide for his family etc. etc.

Western Society is trying to change this role for men, for the worse I think, but that's a topic for another day and another thread.

In the case of Haley's story, the MC have obviously strong feelings for his sister. He wants her as bad as she wants him, but his sense of duty makes him go out with Sandra and following his sister's suggestion. He knows why his sister is doing the things she does.

The other thing to consider is how men perceives sex and love vs a woman's perception. (Again a lot of stereotyping here as well as changing worldviews in the west.) Men generally speaking does not need an emotional connection for sex.
That is why the MC is pushing Haley as far as he can, because he does not perceive them having sex as breaking the status quo.
For the MC, he feels like he can have sex with Haley and still have the facade relationship with Sandra. In other words keeping their relationship a secret.

Haley is not so sure of herself in this regard. My feeling is that if they have sex, she feels like she would loose all control and not want to share him anymore or keeping up his relationship facades, but have him for herself.

Sorry for long post.

 

[Alfius]

Of course, the MC is given real options with 3 different women. Adriana, Lisa and Alana. So the MC can simultaneously be working on relationships with his girlfriend, his girlfriend's best friend, and his girlfriend's best friend's sister. Not to mention his own sister, and his sister's boss! We haven't been given any real option to develop a relationship with Diane yet, but it sure looks like that's coming too.

I've been going for all of the above. I'm sure it will bite me severely in the ass at some point, and I'll have to backtrack to some old saves. But I'll be having a lot of fun till that happens.

In my play through, I'm all Hayley, but I flirt like crazy with Lisa. I do not think my MC will persue Lisa when he breaks up with Sandra, as then it will be all Haley (And Lisa will not do more then flirting while the MC and Sandra are an item). Did not do Adriana and who the f.. is Alana?

Lisa is super cute for me. Definitely my second choice after Hayley, but she is a wild child. It seems to me that she is more horny and would only want casual sex with MC. She likes the MC, but at most only as a temp BF (or even just a quick fuck to satisfy her curiosity) if he brakes of with Sandra. They might even become fuck buddies if it were not for Haley.

hmmmm... comming to think about it. Haley is a bit of a cockblock

 

[Demonius]

In my play through, I'm all Hayley, but I flirt like crazy with Lisa. I do not think my MC will persue Lisa when he breaks up with Sandra, as then it will be all Haley (And Lisa will not do more then flirting while the MC and Sandra are an item). Did not do Adriana and who the f.. is Alana?

Lisa is super cute for me. Definitely my second choice after Hayley, but she is a wild child. It seems to me that she is more horny and would only want casual sex with MC. She likes the MC, but at most only as a temp BF (or even just a quick fuck to satisfy her curiosity) if he brakes of with Sandra. They might even become fuck buddies if it were not for Haley.

hmmmm... comming to think about it. Haley is a bit of a cockblock

Alana is Lisa's Sister

 

[Alfius]

Alana is Lisa's Sister

Can you do anyting with her? I have barely spoken 2 words with her in my play through. You can dance a bit with her at the club when you go out with Sandra, but that's it? Did I miss some content?

 

[Demonius]

Can you do anyting with her? I have barely spoken 2 words with her in my play through. You can dance a bit with her at the club when you go out with Sandra, but that's it? Did I miss some content?

as far as i know, thats all you can do with her

 

[Only4You]

I think the way Haley's pushing the MC towards other women is a natural defense mechanism. It's like when you see a cute baby and to prevent yourself from being overwhelmed by affection you pinch their cheeks. By pushing the MC towards other women Haley's trying to deny to herself that she's hopelessly in love with her brother. She's trying to convince herself that her feelings for her brother are just spurious emotions. She's trying to preserve the illusion that she's just "confused".

a guy that can barely think for himself that wants to fuck his manipulative bitchy sister

I strongly disagree with this accusation. I don't know why you would call Haley manipulative and bitchy, I don't see her doing any harm to any characters in the game, at least not in the path I played. Actually, she seems really friendly to everyone. And if you think she is manipulative and bitchy because of the way she behaves with the MC, maybe you never had a sibling who's close to you. My elder sister is 6 years older than me, yet, even now when we talk, we try to degrade and harass each other with vulgar insults as if we were 7 years old. That doesn't mean that I don't love her, actually the opposite, she's like a rockstar in my eyes, but I've never said that out loud to her - don't need to. And, when Haley seems manipulative, she's simply looking for attention/affection. She only behaves that way because she knows that her brother loves her and doesn't actually mind, it's like when a kid nags his/her parents for something, knowing that they would give up eventually.

Also, I don't think that the MC just wants to "fuck" his sister. You can clearly see that he cares for his sister a lot more than that. Or at least the game gives you the option to be caring (I made those choices).

As for the sexual urges of the MC, as a guy myself, I can present my version of its explanation. There used to be a girl that I liked a lot and we used to be distant relatives (cousins). We used to hang out a lot together but only saw each other as cousins/friends - I could not bring myself to confess my feelings for her. Once, when I was alone with her, I had a similar flash of sexual urge like the MC - like I wanted to take her on the spot. Yet I later felt disgusted with myself that such a thought could even cross my mind. It's just pent up frustrations manifesting itself in form of urges.

As for the night scene where the MC was gradually trying to push the limits, I don't think he was trying to have sex with Haley on the spot. He knew how he felt for her sister, and he was just looking to see if she felt the same way. Because, if he didn't know that Haley also felt that way, he would only feel shitty about himself for having those sexual thoughts. It's like - "I don't want to be the only one who's crazy". That scene was never gonna end in sex. The MC was just looking for approval for his sexual desires. He wasn't trying to make them a reality.

So, why is the MC playing along with Sandra? You may think that because he's a guy, his thoughts should be straightforward - "Either I want a girl or I don't". But I believe that he's also confused. And even if he wanted to move away from her he couldn't possibly reject her outright, and hurt her feelings in the process. The fact that Sandra's in a vulnerable position because of her busy life, doesn't make it any easier.

I think the MC does think for himself, but we don't hear him thinking everything out loud. Because that would need a lot of explanation. If it were a book, there would be enough space for such explanations, but not in a VN - where nobody wants to see the MC do long monologues about his own thoughts. Or maybe, the writer intended to keep those thoughts unspoken so that the player can come up with their own explanations - fill in the gaps with their own thoughts.

 

[Segnbora]

There is a game here called Melody, the story is about her but you can date whoever you want and just be friends with her.

Respectfully, I think this is a wrongheaded way to think about games like Melody and the one whose thread we're in.

Melody (the game) doesn't force the player into a sexual relationship with the titular character, but it does entirely revolve around the MC's choice to either pursue her or pursue others. Every single non-Melody relationship is narratively defined against Melody. Whether she'll be okay with it. How much he has to hide. When the neighbor's going to get suspicious. To say that it's not a game about the player's sexual pursuit of Melody is...weird. Of course it's about that. It's the entire purpose of the game.

Haley, at least so far, is the same. Your relationship with her is the fulcrum around which all the other lust objects revolve. We'll see where it all ends up, but to pretend that fucking Haley isn't the core logic of the game is, I believe, to fundamentally misunderstand the story. It's about the MC hooking up with his sister, whether or not he actually does. The possibility wouldn't even have arisen were that not what the game was about.

 

[Only4You]

You mention it being called Haley's Story like that means something.

What I meant is that she would be the central character of the story. It's pretty obvious that there would be incest content. The only valid question is then, whether it would be optional or not. But, it only takes some time playing the game to figure out that it's headed towards an incestuous route, no matter what - because, the only characters that are in the spotlight are the MC and Haley.

And if you are so repulsed by some sort of content so much, (in my case things like cuckoldry, ntr) it's better to stay away from it until you can be absolutely sure you can avoid it, rather than diving headfirst without knowing what it is and later feeling sorry. Also, blaming the dev for putting it there while the game is still in development is unjustified. They have the right to reserve the details of their plans for the game while it's still in development.

 

[Segnbora]

Meanwhile, I still want Haley's hair to have its own game.

 

[Only4You]

Meanwhile, I still want Haley's hair to have it's own game.

Also, we should name a comet after her, because it seems so unfair that there's a Halley's comet but no Haley's comet.

 

[TiffanyMonroe]

I strongly disagree with this accusation. I don't know why you would call Haley manipulative and bitchy, I don't see her doing any harm to any characters in the game, at least not in the path I played. Actually, she seems really friendly to everyone. And if you think she is manipulative and bitchy because of the way she behaves with the MC, maybe you never had a sibling who's close to you. My elder sister is 6 years older than me, yet, even now when we talk, we try to degrade and harass each other with vulgar insults as if we were 7 years old. That doesn't mean that I don't love her, actually the opposite, she's like a rockstar in my eyes, but I've never said that out loud to her - don't need to.

I tried 3 times but I still can't follow this train of thought. What does someone being manipulative have to do with love? Or you loving them? Like most women, I'm manipulative and often times bitchy but everybody loves me. lol

 

[OhJo]

I love this thread. You guys are fantastic, and this discussion is actually great to follow. It is a major credit to the developer if his story can cause so much debate, not about how the game plays, but how we would see the characters in real life.. exquisite.

Normally, the fallacious, probably inadvertent sexism in some of the contributions would be appalling to me, but given where we are that would just be obnoxious on my part.