Ariostebaldo

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
843
1,304
Emily reacts to things in very strong ways, but the MC seems very adept at being able to talk her down and make her somewhat submissive. Just look at the last episode, she's pissed at him but all he has to do is bring her a burger and the next thing you know he's groping her boobs.
Sorry, I still don't think she fits as submissive. Just because the MC convince her of doing something, this don't mean she is submissive. To reach an agreement, someone always need to be convinced. If anything, the fact that she needs convincing show that she isn't submissive. At least that is my opinion, I can be wrong, I don't know what you see as submissive...
 
Apr 24, 2018
214
577
Alright, here's the way I see it. I don't consider Ashley to be a mean cunt and I don't consider the MC to be some submissive "beta cuck". Anyone with any degree of emotional maturity can see that Ashley is all bark and no bite. Yeah, she says the stuff she does but it's such an obvious front that I don't see how anyone can take any of it seriously. If there was a more westernized version of the whole "Tsundere" character archetype it would basically be Ashley. It blows my mind that there are people so insecure that the stuff Ashley says would actually get them butthurt. Don't get me wrong though; there are certain instances in the most recent update where I did think that the MC was too passive, especially when it came to dealing with Ashley's sister Ashlyn. I do wish he had called her out on her bullshit immediately. If not in the tattoo place, at least when they got to the clothing store. But I guess you could argue that he didn't want to make the situation more difficult for Ashley, since his main reason for being there was to support her.

When it comes to Emily, she also puts up a front, although it is different from Ashley's due to Emily being way more innocent. Emily is still dealing with how to process her lack of control over situations. Her default response has always been anger and violence, which she does realize and has been trying to take steps towards addressing. The way she was able to process this and apologize after you and Ashley finally made it home was actually a big step for her. Emily tends to wear her heart on her sleeve when it comes to the people she is actually close to, which she has demonstrated multiple times. Knowing this, I just don't get how people can't recognize that her "getting mad at you" is basically just her weird way of expressing affection to some extent.

It's very important to remember that Ashely, Emily and the MC are all in a HALFWAY HOUSE. If they had their shit together emotionally and psychologically, they wouldn't have been there in the first place! All three of them are working on their character defects, and all three are fallible (as humans tend to be). The vast majority of the "beta cuck behavior" some people keep having a problem with, is nothing more than the MC having the emotional intelligence to understand what Ashley and Emily are actually trying to communicate with their behavior. Ashley gives you shit because "that's just Ashley", it's how she interacts with those she cares about. She constantly teases Emily as well, but at the end of the day, both of them understand that the other cares for them deeply. Emily can be sensitive but is also fiercely loyal, the only time she really gets angry at either Ashley or the MC is when she feels like she is being left out, or that they are pushing her away.

Both Emily and Ashley hate being vulnerable. The majority of Emily's punching/kicking/complaining comes as a result of her being put in situations where she feels vulnerable and she tends to lash out in order to attempt to regain some sort of control. But, as Emily and the MC have gotten closer, more and more of that front falls away and she starts being progressively more vulnerable. Despite the fact that she finds it highly highly embarrassing (which is awesome and the cutest thing ever).
When it comes to sex stuff, both of them have their own unique reaction to the vulnerability such actions make them feel. Emily's is to either resist doing sexual stuff and/or get extremely embarrassed by it. Despite the fact that deep down she really likes it and wants to do it. It could be argued that some of the more tomboyish aspects of her personality are a result of the embarrassment she feels when expressing her femininity. Ashley's response to sex is basically the opposite of Emily's. Instead of avoidance and embarrassment, she instead leans into it. Embracing her sexuality, and attempting to control the sexual encounters that she is in. She likes to be one in control, she wants to be the one doing the "fucking" instead of the one being fucked. By making herself look "slutty" and sexually provocative, she is even able to feel like she has control over the male gaze that she feels is constantly on her. Through these behaviors and others, she is able to avoid the vulnerability associated with intimacy. That is why she has fallen so hard for the MC. Over time he has been able to break through that facade and force her into a state of emotional vulnerability, both in their conversations as well as eventually in their sexual encounters (aka the train scene). Due to this, she has ended up falling for him, despite the fact that the MC doesn't seem to realize it. Because of this, Ashley is still somewhat able to keep up her whole teasing facade, at least to some extent. It could also be argued that her attempting to help the MC get with Emily is her way of feeling a sense of control over the situation since I think she knows that the MC is going to choose Emily over her. So, by pushing the MC towards getting with Emily she is able to avoid some of the sting of rejection since she can tell herself "he didn't choose her over me. I was just making sure he was good enough for her/I wanted them to get together". Anyways, this is the way I see all of this. Where most of what some people perceive as negative reactions by Em and Ash are just the result of preexisting character traits they have, and at the end of the day it is very clear that they both care about the MC much more than they let on.

So, all of that being said, AZ certainly could put in the dialogue choices to allow some of you to behave like the immature insecure assholes you apparently want to be. But, I don't think it would play out the way that you think it would. And I'd imagine that if it were to play out the way you want it to, in order for it do to that, AZ would have to fundamentally compromise the nature of characters that he has obviously spent a very long time crafting, writing, and building up over the course of this VN.

Just my two cents.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
Alright, here's the way I see it. I don't consider Ashley to be a mean cunt and I don't consider the MC to be some submissive "beta cuck". Anyone with any degree of emotional maturity can see that Ashley is all bark and no bite. Yeah, she says the stuff she does but it's such an obvious front that I don't see how anyone can take any of it seriously. If there was a more westernized version of the whole "Tsundere" character archetype it would basically be Ashley. It blows my mind that there are people so insecure that the stuff Ashley says would actually get them butthurt. Don't get me wrong though; there are certain instances in the most recent update where I did think that the MC was too passive, especially when it came to dealing with Ashley's sister Ashlyn. I do wish he had called her out on her bullshit immediately. If not in the tattoo place, at least when they got to the clothing store. But I guess you could argue that he didn't want to make the situation more difficult for Ashley, since his main reason for being there was to support her.

When it comes to Emily, she also puts up a front, although it is different from Ashley's due to Emily being way more innocent. Emily is still dealing with how to process her lack of control over situations. Her default response has always been anger and violence, which she does realize and has been trying to take steps towards addressing. The way she was able to process this and apologize after you and Ashley finally made it home was actually a big step for her. Emily tends to wear her heart on her sleeve when it comes to the people she is actually close to, which she has demonstrated multiple times. Knowing this, I just don't get how people can't recognize that her "getting mad at you" is basically just her weird way of expressing affection to some extent.

It's very important to remember that Ashely, Emily and the MC are all in a HALFWAY HOUSE. If they had their shit together emotionally and psychologically, they wouldn't have been there in the first place! All three of them are working on their character defects, and all three are fallible (as humans tend to be). The vast majority of the "beta cuck behavior" some people keep having a problem with, is nothing more than the MC having the emotional intelligence to understand what Ashley and Emily are actually trying to communicate with their behavior. Ashley gives you shit because "that's just Ashley", it's how she interacts with those she cares about. She constantly teases Emily as well, but at the end of the day, both of them understand that the other cares for them deeply. Emily can be sensitive but is also fiercely loyal, the only time she really gets angry at either Ashley or the MC is when she feels like she is being left out, or that they are pushing her away.

Both Emily and Ashley hate being vulnerable. The majority of Emily's punching/kicking/complaining comes as a result of her being put in situations where she feels vulnerable and she tends to lash out in order to attempt to regain some sort of control. But, as Emily and the MC have gotten closer, more and more of that front falls away and she starts being progressively more vulnerable. Despite the fact that she finds it highly highly embarrassing (which is awesome and the cutest thing ever).
When it comes to sex stuff, both of them have their own unique reaction to the vulnerability such actions make them feel. Emily's is to either resist doing sexual stuff and/or get extremely embarrassed by it. Despite the fact that deep down she really likes it and wants to do it. It could be argued that some of the more tomboyish aspects of her personality are a result of the embarrassment she feels when expressing her femininity. Ashley's response to sex is basically the opposite of Emily's. Instead of avoidance and embarrassment, she instead leans into it. Embracing her sexuality, and attempting to control the sexual encounters that she is in. She likes to be one in control, she wants to be the one doing the "fucking" instead of the one being fucked. By making herself look "slutty" and sexually provocative, she is even able to feel like she has control over the male gaze that she feels is constantly on her. Through these behaviors and others, she is able to avoid the vulnerability associated with intimacy. That is why she has fallen so hard for the MC. Over time he has been able to break through that facade and force her into a state of emotional vulnerability, both in their conversations as well as eventually in their sexual encounters (aka the train scene). Due to this, she has ended up falling for him, despite the fact that the MC doesn't seem to realize it. Because of this, Ashley is still somewhat able to keep up her whole teasing facade, at least to some extent. It could also be argued that her attempting to help the MC get with Emily is her way of feeling a sense of control over the situation since I think she knows that the MC is going to choose Emily over her. So, by pushing the MC towards getting with Emily she is able to avoid some of the sting of rejection since she can tell herself "he didn't choose her over me. I was just making sure he was good enough for her/I wanted them to get together". Anyways, this is the way I see all of this. Where most of what some people perceive as negative reactions by Em and Ash are just the result of preexisting character traits they have, and at the end of the day it is very clear that they both care about the MC much more than they let on.

So, all of that being said, AZ certainly could put in the dialogue choices to allow some of you to behave like the immature insecure assholes you apparently want to be. But, I don't think it would play out the way that you think it would. And I'd imagine that if it were to play out the way you want it to, in order for it do to that, AZ would have to fundamentally compromise the nature of characters that he has obviously spent a very long time crafting, writing, and building up over the course of this VN.

Just my two cents.
Brilliant. Quite honestly, brilliant. (y)

A couple of points I particularly want to address:
It blows my mind that there are people so insecure that the stuff Ashley says would actually get them butthurt.
This, 110%. I look at what Ashley says as nothing more than a bit of playful banter because that's what it is, yet some people look at it as though she's just being "a cunt" and it makes them feel small, which is why they lash out with immature, name-calling epithets.

So, all of that being said, AZ certainly could put in the dialogue choices to allow some of you to behave like the immature insecure assholes you apparently want to be. But, I don't think it would play out the way that you think it would. And I'd imagine that if it were to play out the way you want it to, in order for it do to that, AZ would have to fundamentally compromise the nature of characters that he has obviously spent a very long time crafting, writing, and building up over the course of this VN.
This 1000%. For the MC to be all "alpha", like some people are suggesting, it would not only go against the MC's established character but it would also ruin the clear intentions that AZ has in crafting the event to unfold the way that it did. Being as aggressive and confrontational as some people seem to want him to be is not the MC we've come to know and it would also likely cause more problems than it solves, so by taking it on the chin and choosing the path of least reistance, this will serve both him and Ashley better as the story continues to unfold.
 
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hatefuldisplay

Active Member
May 22, 2020
546
927
I'm at a loss as to what some folks are looking for on this one. I'm pretty sure the design team had a set plot for the episode. I suppose they could have tossed in several chances for the MC to make snappy comments throughout, but I'm not sure it would have aided the story. It would have just added more button pushes and possibly degraded potential relationships with both sisters and the maid going forward. I don't know that it would have done much for the game as a whole.

At a guess, I would assume the bodyguard is a bit more capable of injuring people than Hollis was. To me, this says the MC was probably smart enough to not push his luck to save his pride. I mean, the MC might have anger management issues but that doesn't mean he has berserker rage or will attack anyone at any time. If that was the case, he probably would have slugged Ashlyn at some point.

Allowing the player to push back against Ashlyn would have removed things from the view of the player that the developers feel they should know. It would have also removed any future possibilities with Ashlyn based on their interaction in the security room.

Even an option for the MC to turn down helping Ashley and staying behind wouldn't really work. It's not like Ashley would have pulled him into Emily's room with her to tell them what happened together after he declined going with her when she was feeling helpless.

I don't know. I just don't see what people would have preferred to see that would have still allowed the plot to progress.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
I'm at a loss as to what some folks are looking for on this one. I'm pretty sure the design team had a set plot for the episode. I suppose they could have tossed in several chances for the MC to make snappy comments throughout, but I'm not sure it would have aided the story. It would have just added more button pushes and possibly degraded potential relationships with both sisters and the maid going forward. I don't know that it would have done much for the game as a whole.

At a guess, I would assume the bodyguard is a bit more capable of injuring people than Hollis was. To me, this says the MC was probably smart enough to not push his luck to save his pride. I mean, the MC might have anger management issues but that doesn't mean he has berserker rage or will attack anyone at any time. If that was the case, he probably would have slugged Ashlyn at some point.

Allowing the player to push back against Ashlyn would have removed things from the view of the player that the developers feel they should know. It would have also removed any future possibilities with Ashlyn based on their interaction in the security room.

Even an option for the MC to turn down helping Ashley and staying behind wouldn't really work. It's not like Ashley would have pulled him into Emily's room with her to tell them what happened together after he declined going with her when she was feeling helpless.

I don't know. I just don't see what people would have preferred to see that would have still allowed the plot to progress.
They seem to want the MC to act like a selfish dickhead because, I guess that's how they would have done it, which really says a lot about them if they think that would have been the best course of action.
 

TiffanyMonroe

Forum Fanatic
May 29, 2018
5,767
13,736
"bent like a beach chair"
I like this so I'm gonna steal it for personal use.
Also I think I'm starting to understand the logic. Would ya'll still feel it was okay for the mc to be a bitch if it was a guy walking over him? You shouldn't have to take shit from anybody no matter what genitals they have. You can be a man without being a jellyfish(no backbone) or needing to resort to violence.
Maybe I'm just not conditioned by society enough. :unsure:
 

HornyyPussy

Message Maven
Apr 26, 2020
12,554
29,251
I like this so I'm gonna steal it for personal use.
Also I think I'm starting to understand the logic. Would ya'll still feel it was okay for the mc to be a bitch if it was a guy walking over him? You shouldn't have to take shit from anybody no matter what genitals they have. You can be a man without being a jellyfish(no backbone) or needing to resort to violence.
Maybe I'm just not conditioned by society enough. :unsure:
Since i don't agree that he was "walked all over", yes, no problem if it was a man.
 

espy85

Member
Sep 28, 2019
188
243
The whole diatribe about Ashley starts to be cloying, you don't have to like the girl, but trivializing her to an unpleasant whore means not understanding the character, I wonder if you also read the dialogues or if you just skip between a sex scene and other. Ashley behaves like that because she has lived in shit, her loved ones dearest to her have abandoned her to live on the street. It seems normal to me that she behaves like that to keep people away, because she is afraid of being betrayed again. As mentioned, she can like it or not, each of us has our favorite character, but to paint her as a bitch without motivation means not having understood her story behind the girl and the game.
 

Havik79

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2019
6,457
7,637
Thanks for the laugh dude.

She sold her ass for money, that is the literal definition of a whore.

Jumping from sex scene to sex scene, because yeah your fucking someone every 2 mins, there is what 2 sexual scenes in the game, 3 maybe.

She chose to be a whore, and got disowned, I know in 2021 along with common sense, it too has gone missing, but there is a thing called personal responsibility, she betrayed her families reputation, if she was unhappy could have done a dozen other things, but sure woe is her, poor hard done by rich brat.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
The whole diatribe about Ashley starts to be cloying, you don't have to like the girl, but trivializing her to an unpleasant whore means not understanding the character, I wonder if you also read the dialogues or if you just skip between a sex scene and other. Ashley behaves like that because she has lived in shit, her loved ones dearest to her have abandoned her to live on the street. It seems normal to me that she behaves like that to keep people away, because she is afraid of being betrayed again. As mentioned, she can like it or not, each of us has our favorite character, but to paint her as a bitch without motivation means not having understood her story behind the girl and the game.
It's even more basic than that, it's people who don't seem to understand what playful banter is. Instead of seeing what she says as her having a bit of cheeky fun with people which is all it really is, they see it as some sort of deeply offensive insults and that she does this because she's a terrible person.

The sensitivity of these people to feel so aggrieved by a character with a lively spirit is just so pathetic.
 

Kellermann

Engaged Member
Oct 20, 2020
3,613
11,654
Since i don't agree that he was "walked all over", yes, no problem if it was a man.
I don't think MC was necessarily walked all over either, but you have to look at it through his perspective. He was set up from the beginning as someone not being able to control his emotions (that is what got him into kid prison and the halfway house to begin with).

Earlier in the story, he was even on the verge of full rage with just some slight needling from the girls. Now he seems an ocean of calm. If you're going to have someone do a complete 180 on such an established character trait then show me that progression. Don't just have him appear one day as the Mahatma.

I think MC should have at least had an internal conflict (he has them about everything else :giggle:). You don't even need to give the player the dialogue choice to verbally snap back, just mention it in MC cloud vision mode. Something like, "wow, this stuck up bitch has an attitude, but I'd better hold my tongue because it is important to Ashley and I agreed to help." Done.

But hey, the game is tagged female domination for reason! ;)

I don't want to sound like I don't enjoy the game because it's actually on my top 10 list right now. MC's demeanor change is just a minor quibble and if our designated LI Emily gets more dedicated time next episode then I'll be quite happy.
 
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Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,250
4,894
It's very important to remember that Ashely, Emily and the MC are all in a HALFWAY HOUSE. If they had their shit together emotionally and psychologically, they wouldn't have been there in the first place! All three of them are working on their character defects, and all three are fallible (as humans tend to be). The vast majority of the "beta cuck behavior" some people keep having a problem with, is nothing more than the MC having the emotional intelligence to understand what Ashley and Emily are actually trying to communicate with their behavior. Ashley gives you shit because "that's just Ashley", it's how she interacts with those she cares about. She constantly teases Emily as well, but at the end of the day, both of them understand that the other cares for them deeply. Emily can be sensitive but is also fiercely loyal, the only time she really gets angry at either Ashley or the MC is when she feels like she is being left out, or that they are pushing her away.
Etc. Etc.
Fantastic analysis.

It's even more basic than that, it's people who don't seem to understand what playful banter is. Instead of seeing what she says as her having a bit of cheeky fun with people which is all it really is, they see it as some sort of deeply offensive insults and that she does this because she's a terrible person.

The sensitivity of these people to feel so aggrieved by a character with a lively spirit is just so pathetic.
The writing of Halfway House is quite good, among the top VNs here, but it isn't that complicated. I think the motivations of each of the characters are pretty obvious, which is fine. It is a game after all, so the author doesn't have hundreds of pages of text to establish his characters. I honestly don't understand why a character like Ashley is so confusing to a few of you. I guess any strong female character with an attitude and her own opinions is threatening to some people.

Not every character can be totally complient, with thoughts only for the MC at all times. I see this same attitude in threads all around here. Anytime a female character shows a little independence or spunk, all these people show up in the thread and start expressing how they feel emasculated, I guess, by the characters' mere presense in the game. How strange. I really don't get it.
 
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Smarmint

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2019
1,250
4,894
The other thing about shit-talkers like Ashley is that it's so often done to avoid feeling or dealing with serious issues and is often a sign that someone may be deeply depressed. When someone's constantly trying to make jokes, or make light of every situation, and doesn't seem to take anything too seriously, it can typically be a sign that they're struggling to cope with their own thoughts and feelings and that they'd rather suppress it under this mask of jovial banter in order to try and not feel these crippling emotions.
I hadn't thought of the depression angle, good point. She certainly has her reasons. I saw Ashley's tough-girl persona to be more of a shield to keep most people at arms length, and herself from getting too close to people that might hurt her, which has happened to her a lot. And also, with her friends like Emily and the MC, it is just playful banter, like you said. Like I mentioned earlier, I was a little luke-warm about Ashley at the beginning, but I really enjoyed seeing her come out of her shell this update. It is gratifying to see. I think a little more of that, and Ashlyn thawing out with time, will keep Halfway House interesting for many more updates.


People on here talking g about how an ACTUAL FOR REAL WHORE,is a strong empowered woman.
No? You think that is impossible? Have you ever been dropped on the street with nothing like Ashley? I think figuring out a way to survive and ultimately succeed on your own would make you strong and empowered, if you made it.

I suspect most of us were generally supported by family until we were old enough to get a job and earn a living for ourselves. I know it is just a game, but I don't judge people for what they have to do to survive, especially if it isn't harming anyone else.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
I hadn't thought of the depression angle, good point. She certainly has her reasons. I saw Ashley's tough-girl persona to be more of a shield to keep most people at arms length, and herself from getting too close to people that might hurt her, which has happened to her a lot. And also, with her friends like Emily and the MC, it is just playful banter, like you said. Like I mentioned earlier, I was a little luke-warm about Ashley at the beginning, but I really enjoyed seeing her come out of her shell this update. It is gratifying to see. I think a little more of that, and Ashlyn thawing out with time, will keep Halfway House interesting for many more updates.
It could be both as they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but it's plain to see that this is just meant as good-natured, friendly banter, even if it is likely masking some deep emotional issues.
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Aug 5, 2016
4,757
12,882
I hadn't thought of the depression angle, good point. She certainly has her reasons. I saw Ashley's tough-girl persona to be more of a shield to keep most people at arms length, and herself from getting too close to people that might hurt her, which has happened to her a lot. And also, with her friends like Emily and the MC, it is just playful banter, like you said. Like I mentioned earlier, I was a little luke-warm about Ashley at the beginning, but I really enjoyed seeing her come out of her shell this update. It is gratifying to see. I think a little more of that, and Ashlyn thawing out with time, will keep Halfway House interesting for many more updates.




No? You think that is impossible? Have you ever been dropped on the street with nothing like Ashley? I think figuring out a way to survive and ultimately succeed on your own would make you strong and empowered, if you made it.

I suspect most of us were generally supported by family until we were old enough to get a job and earn a living for ourselves. I know it is just a game, but I don't judge people for what they have to do to survive, especially if it isn't harming anyone else.
She was never dropped on the streets with nothing. She was a rich kid turned escort due to the typical rebellious stage. She was living with her parents while doing the whoring.
When the prostitution ring was busted she ended on juvie and the Halfway House. Her grandfather disowned her after the scandal when she was already in the hands of the system and Samantha has been taking care of her until now.
 
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