VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.17.2] [Runey]

[vladțepeș666]

What's her friendship? Friendship is in the heart, it's not affection.

21

 

[Runey]

21

Are you sure that's the number in Emma's heart on her stat screen?

Emma's max friendship as of v0.5 is 19, so 21 is impossible. If you are still somehow on 21 friendship, you'll need to restart the game, or use a cheat and or the console to set her friendship back.

 

[vladțepeș666]

Are you sure that's the number in Emma's heart on her stat screen?

Emma's max friendship as of v0.5 is 19, so 21 is impossible. If you are still somehow on 21 friendship, you'll need to restart the game, or use a cheat and or the console to set her friendship back.

unfortunately it is, thank you for the help, i'll see what i can do

 

[Runey]

I have never been good a reviewing stuff so I'll make it quick, this is a great game and im really looking forward to its completion. Having different endings with each girl sounds fantastic too but you have to keep in mind that no matter how it goes some people will be upset if their best girl ends up barren/dead while all the others get their happy ending.

That being said im okay with death being added into the game as long as its done properly even if there is a chance my girl gets the short end of the stick anyway, its your game so you are free to do with it want you want so if you already have a story in mind then go for it!

Thank you! Yeah, I can definitely understand that. Since I've kept it so vague, anybody can take my words as saying their favorite girl specifically will die. Which is not the case.

I've gotten a lot of messages from people talking about me killing off characters, once again, this is simply an idea I wanted feedback on. This is not set in stone. I probably shouldn't have said anything, but if I didn't, her story might have ended in death. Feedback is important.

I definitely don't want to do things that make people angry, and if people simply let me know they would absolutely hate it if I killed a character off, that's good feedback. Or if you said 'if it makes sense for the story, fine'

I may still include this idea as an alternate ending through a code, or something like that, perhaps a non canon code.

 

[Kaizo]

full save please?

 

[ObeliskMeister]

Thanks Runey, Keep it up!

 

[NeroZee]

Thank you for that! You brought up some really good points. But like I said, I'm looking for feedback on this idea, it's not set in stone. I'm simply asking for feedback.

Your welcome, as i said before to other devs, i think the best and smartest choice you can make is to listen to what the fans would want. At least that is what i would do if i was in your guys shoes, not saying what i said or represents what the majority want, for all i know i could be completely wrong(although unlikely given my past experiences), thats something can be easily found out through feedback and polls anyway.

You mention all your work would be for nothing when a character has died. Much like the Mass Effect 3 ending. Does that mean you hated playing through Mass Effect 2, though? I thought it was an amazing game, even with the bad ending of 3, I didn't think Mass Effect 2 was a pointless game. My point is, as much as a good ending matters a lot, and can take away from the game as a whole, does the experience of the story go down knowing someone could die?

To me, when a character dies, it's huge. If it's done right.

No joke, Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. And that game is the PERFECT example of what i am talking about, you could play that game in SO many different ways with SO many different results. You could even kill every single character off including yourself or you could save everyone. It's why the game is easily the best one in the series for me. And then ME3 happened where such a choice was no longer an option. Now does the ending of ME3 diminish the experience of ME2? Yea kinda actually, you see knowing how the overall ME story concluded made it impossible for me to go back and replay ME2 and i actually tried, when i played ME2 everything was perfect, when i finished ME3, i couldn't even look at the ME series in the same way anymore. And i have sunk more then HUNDREDS of hours in the whole thing, i replayed ME2 almost a dozen times by itself, yet i couldn't replay ME3 even once.

I know the argument you are making, it's the "what really matters is the journey and not the ending", now i always viewed this as a false dichotomy, BOTH matter and yes IMO both can diminish the other if done improperly. I could list you so many stories across movies, TV shows, games, books that were perfect until the final act where everything fell apart damning the entire thing altogether.

Yes when a character dies, it's huge, it can stir up people quite a lot. But do you really think a game like this deserves such an ending? Do you believe you can pull it off and not piss off most people? I ask you this, because you are the one that can answer it the best, after all it's your choice and your game, you understand it better than anyone else.

Like I said, I'm simply looking for discussion. Not a debate on whether or not a character should die, I'm just looking for feedback on this idea.

And I've gotten really good feedback that shines light on subjects I haven't thought about, which is why feedback is so valuable.

Cool, it's why you are one of my favorite developers on this site. And i say that not to kiss your ass but because you are by far the most engaging developer on this site, even with a game as popular as yours you still try to reply to as many people as you can, you actually treat this whole thing with professionalism. Basically you treat it like you would a normal 9 to 5 job you'd have.

You mention a game having no buildup to a death, no hint or tone to a character dying, just thrusting you into the death of a character, that wouldn't happen for this idea. There would be buildup, you would know it's happening near the end of her story, you would know why it would be happening, you would most likely understand that it's going to happen, and in a way, you might actually end up feeling conflicted. On one hand, you may think about the ways it shouldn't have happened, on the other hand, you may think about how it actually should have happened, and ended better because of it.

See that's the thing "near the end of the story", that wouldn't personally(and i emphasis the word personally) work for me. The game would shift tone drastically in the last couple of updates and the narrative would spiral out of our hands and lead into a forced end where we no longer control anything, where we are no longer the player but are just passengers along for the ride watching a character die without any way of preventing it.
I mean could i understand the whole situation under the right circumstances? I mean maybe, it's not impossible but like i said i don't think it fits the overall tone of the game nor was any of this hinted at from the beginning or even halfway through the game.
I dunno there are too many variables to consider and from this POV i have nothing to work for so i can only tell you as things are now, it's really hard for me to imagine myself as being understanding of it.

I'll say it again, because I know what I just said will scare people.

No, this IS NOT set in stone. I'm simply asking for feedback on this idea that came into my head.

That is good to hear. I am a big advocate for listening to the feedback of the players and more importantly those that directly support you.

I believe what I have in mind will be an amazing ending. Yet I know people would not want her to die. I don't either. Nobody wants people to die, and that's good. But there's a difference between not wanting something because it's bad, and not wanting something because it would be painful, but good. Which again, is why I'm looking for discussion on this topic.

I am sure, but again would it fit the whole game? Is it even that necessary in the first place? Would the pain be worth it? These are the questions you need to ask yourself, because you are the person with the answers here.

In the end, through all the feedback I've gotten so far, I think having two endings would be best for her. Actually, I'm already getting an idea of what that split would be and what each option would lose/gain.

Personally i do think this is the best choice, but even though i spent all this time pretty much advocating against a character dying. I really don't want to be the guy that forced or pressured you into anything here, i am just a drop in the ocean. What the majority of people want should be want influences your decision either way and ultimately it's your game, some times you have to make some tough choices that maybe the majority of the people wont like. Thats were you need to weigh the pros vs cons, is this decision ultimately worth the potential consequences? Is it really needed? I think these are things that should be on your mind, whenever you make a major decision.

Thank you for your reply, sorry if i was being too much of a hassle with these long posts.

 

[ThunderRob]

i think the problem-corner you've backed yourself into @Runey is that every character has fans that have connected to them..and i believe the only widely accepted deaths would be of side characters only..many of us have been playing this since day 1 which is a LONG time and are totally invested..so even though they are but pixels..they are now our pixels and we want to protect them..lol...and its all your own damn fault for making a high-quality game!!!!

 

[dragowar]

Please provide their friendship levels.



Rolling back is bound to cause issues.

This happens when you're far ahead in time and far behind in events. If you don't check for events daily, then they'll all pile up. Much like starting from a previous save going into the next update. You'll get each event right away.

their friendship level is 30 for all 3 of them

 

[ThunderRob]

Lin: obedience = 33, Lust = 0, sluttiness = 45, exhibitionism = 31, submission = 36
Maria: affection = 40, sluttiness = 33, exhibitionism = 31, submission = 30
Kali: affection = 39, sluttiness = 36, exhibitionism = 32, submission = 30

friendship level is the heart with a number in the upper left of the stat screen for each girl...thats what he is asking for

 

[Valeck]

You mention all your work would be for nothing when a character has died. Much like the Mass Effect 3 ending. Does that mean you hated playing through Mass Effect 2, though? I thought it was an amazing game, even with the bad ending of 3, I didn't think Mass Effect 2 was a pointless game. My point is, as much as a good ending matters a lot, and can take away from the game as a whole, does the experience of the story go down knowing someone could die?

Well by my avatar you can say how much i like ME2 i finish it at least 12 times but after the end o the 3 i never played any of the serie again,so yes the end can change a lot of things.
Principally if is a thing you cant avoid,last say if we have a choice it will be a very different thing,if someone chose to let her die its their option one i never going to chose myself.

 

[dragowar]

friendship level is the heart with a number in the upper left of the stat screen for each girl...thats what he is asking for

Thank you kind sir

 

[MrJay]

Yeah, I would agree that's the point of the story. And like I said, it wouldn't happen until the player clicked the "End her story" button. This girl dying wouldn't be a plot twist at all, nothing like that at all. It would have a build up, the player would know it's coming, the player would want to spend time with her and know what the "End her story" button would mean.

If I were to explain what this format is, it's learning about characters, growing closer to them, training them, and following their stories. Drama happens, and death can as well. I wouldn't say it's against the grain. I would say it's another way of a story to end.

Throwing out story isn't a factor to me, so I'm not stuck on this idea because I have it written out, I'm stuck on it because I think it's really damn good. But you guys have no way of knowing that, because I won't spoil it.

But I am still very curious if you have more to say.

I think at that point, most players won't even press the "End her story" button. Which you might think is fine, but it's really telling that the ending is problematic. In fact I dare even say that depending on how its done I know I, and surely other players as well, will be much less enthusiastic about spending/investing time in a girl where it's foreshadowed she's just gonna die. It just feels bad, and porn games are not an appropriate medium for feels-bad.

I think that's a big part of why this strikes a nerve. Stories in porn games, outside of very specific genres, are very happy-go-lucky for a reason, because it just fits with the feel of the games. To mix in drama and sad story endings in a game about ultimate collecting and fucking/impregnating as many girls as possible simply creates a conflict that is going to affect players negatively. The drama/sadness detracts from the porn experience and the porn experience detracts from the dramatic/sad story line.

Part of the point is that while good stories can definitely have drama, porn games aren't just about the story. I admire that you're trying to tell a good story, but a good story *in a porn game* only remains a good story as long as it fits within the context of a porn game. In short, you couldn't just take any story that would be interesting on its own and cram it into a porn game, that would just turn most people off. Imagine a Brazzers video that starts out with the girl crying because she's just been told that she has cancer and she has a month or so to live. I'm sure there are a small amount of people who're into that, but most people would be confused/turned off and NOPE out of it.

Ultimately it's your decision of course, but a final point is that it's really hard to tell whether a story (or story ending in this case) is actually interesting on your lonesome. That's why show writers almost always work in teams and why authors correspond with friends/each other; to get second opinions. I'm not sure how viable that is in your case but if you could get some feedback, perhaps anonymously and without revealing exactly what project you're seeking feedback on, I'd advice you to do that.

I'll stand by that I think it's a bad idea. Even if you pull it off expertly I can't see myself liking the outcome, given the context. Either way I wish this project continues to grow, you've done very well so far.

 

[Xelloss69]

Seriously Runey, I fucking love your game. I am just a bit sad that I am currently stuck in the no sex zone with Maria (yeah I have a previous save it's k) . Can't wait to see what you bring up next!

 

[Runey]

Your welcome, as i said before to other devs, i think the best and smartest choice you can make is to listen to what the fans would want. At least that is what i would do if i was in your guys shoes, not saying what i said or represents what the majority want, for all i know i could be completely wrong(although unlikely given my past experiences), thats something can be easily found out through feedback and polls anyway.



No joke, Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. And that game is the PERFECT example of what i am talking about, you could play that game in SO many different ways with SO many different results. You could even kill every single character off including yourself or you could save everyone. It's why the game is easily the best one in the series for me. And then ME3 happened where such a choice was no longer an option. Now does the ending of ME3 diminish the experience of ME2? Yea kinda actually, you see knowing how the overall ME story concluded made it impossible for me to go back and replay ME2 and i actually tried, when i played ME2 everything was perfect, when i finished ME3, i couldn't even look at the ME series in the same way anymore. And i have sunk more then HUNDREDS of hours in the whole thing, i replayed ME2 almost a dozen times by itself, yet i couldn't replay ME3 even once.

I know the argument you are making, it's the "what really matters is the journey and not the ending", now i always viewed this as a false dichotomy, BOTH matter and yes IMO both can diminish the other if done improperly. I could list you so many stories across movies, TV shows, games, books that were perfect until the final act where everything fell apart damning the entire thing altogether.

Yes when a character dies, it's huge, it can stir up people quite a lot. But do you really think a game like this deserves such an ending? Do you believe you can pull it off and not piss off most people? I ask you this, because you are the one that can answer it the best, after all it's your choice and your game, you understand it better than anyone else.


Cool, it's why you are one of my favorite developers on this site. And i say that not to kiss your ass but because you are by far the most engaging developer on this site, even with a game as popular as yours you still try to reply to as many people as you can, you actually treat this whole thing with professionalism. Basically you treat it like you would a normal 9 to 5 job you'd have.



See that's the thing "near the end of the story", that wouldn't personally(and i emphasis the word personally) work for me. The game would shift tone drastically in the last couple of updates and the narrative would spiral out of our hands and lead into a forced end where we no longer control anything, where we are no longer the player but are just passengers along for the ride watching a character die without any way of preventing it.
I mean could i understand the whole situation under the right circumstances? I mean maybe, it's not impossible but like i said i don't think it fits the overall tone of the game nor was any of this hinted at from the beginning or even halfway through the game.
I dunno there are too many variables to consider and from this POV i have nothing to work for so i can only tell you as things are now, it's really hard for me to imagine myself as being understanding of it.



That is good to hear. I am a big advocate for listening to the feedback of the players and more importantly those that directly support you.




I am sure, but again would it fit the whole game? Is it even that necessary in the first place? Would the pain be worth it? These are the questions you need to ask yourself, because you are the person with the answers here.



Personally i do think this is the best choice, but even though i spent all this time pretty much advocating against a character dying. I really don't want to be the guy that forced or pressured you into anything here, i am just a drop in the ocean. What the majority of people want should be want influences your decision either way and ultimately it's your game, some times you have to make some tough choices that maybe the majority of the people wont like. Thats were you need to weigh the pros vs cons, is this decision ultimately worth the potential consequences? Is it really needed? I think these are things that should be on your mind, whenever you make a major decision.

Thank you for your reply, sorry if i was being too much of a hassle with these long posts.

Well by my avatar you can say how much i like ME2 i finish it at least 12 times but after the end o the 3 i never played any of the serie again,so yes the end can change a lot of things.
Principally if is a thing you cant avoid,last say if we have a choice it will be a very different thing,if someone chose to let her die its their option one i never going to chose myself.

I think at that point, most players won't even press the "End her story" button. Which you might think is fine, but it's really telling that the ending is problematic. In fact I dare even say that depending on how its done I know I, and surely other players as well, will be much less enthusiastic about spending/investing time in a girl where it's foreshadowed she's just gonna die. It just feels bad, and porn games are not an appropriate medium for feels-bad.

I think that's a big part of why this strikes a nerve. Stories in porn games, outside of very specific genres, are very happy-go-lucky for a reason, because it just fits with the feel of the games. To mix in drama and sad story endings in a game about ultimate collecting and fucking/impregnating as many girls as possible simply creates a conflict that is going to affect players negatively. The drama/sadness detracts from the porn experience and the porn experience detracts from the dramatic/sad story line.

Part of the point is that while good stories can definitely have drama, porn games aren't just about the story. I admire that you're trying to tell a good story, but a good story *in a porn game* only remains a good story as long as it fits within the context of a porn game. In short, you couldn't just take any story that would be interesting on its own and cram it into a porn game, that would just turn most people off. Imagine a Brazzers video that starts out with the girl crying because she's just been told that she has cancer and she has a month or so to live. I'm sure there are a small amount of people who're into that, but most people would be confused/turned off and NOPE out of it.

Ultimately it's your decision of course, but a final point is that it's really hard to tell whether a story (or story ending in this case) is actually interesting on your lonesome. That's why show writers almost always work in teams and why authors correspond with friends/each other; to get second opinions. I'm not sure how viable that is in your case but if you could get some feedback, perhaps anonymously and without revealing exactly what project you're seeking feedback on, I'd advice you to do that.

I'll stand by that I think it's a bad idea. Even if you pull it off expertly I can't see myself liking the outcome, given the context. Either way I wish this project continues to grow, you've done very well so far.

Thank you all very much! I've gotten a ton of feedback, and many reasons why and why not death should be included, and I very much agree in a porn game death should not be included now.

Like many of you have said, it detracts from the game being a dating sim where you attach yourself to characters and want to "live" with them, not die with them.

So, no, I wont be including any death ever in Harem Hotel

(At least not for main characters. I don't have plans for side characters to be killed, but it may advance a main character's story if such a thing is warranted)

However, I do think drama and sadness is a good thing in dating sims. As long as it's not a main theme of course. Characters that have problems are characters that feel more realistic. Arcs like Ashley's current arc is one where she's going through though times for "Some Reason". Tough times like these should only grow a character and grow your attachment to them.

At least, that's what I think. I've been wrong about the other thing of course. So I'm still curious to hear about thoughts on sadness. Specifically sadness and drama that characters get over quickly.

As an example, Ashley's first even for v0.6 should end, or somewhat end, her current sadness arc.

 

[dragowar]

I need their friendship, not their sex stats. The number in the heart is their friendship.





Thank you all very much! I've gotten a ton of feedback, and many reasons why and why not death should be included, and I very much agree in a porn game death should not be included now.

Like many of you have said, it detracts from the game being a dating sim where you attach yourself to characters and want to "live" with them, not die with them.

So, no, I wont be including any death ever in Harem Hotel

(At least not for main characters. I don't have plans for side characters to be killed, but it may advance a main character's story if such a thing is warranted)

However, I do think drama and sadness is a good thing in dating sims. As long as it's not a main theme of course. Characters that have problems are characters that feel more realistic. Arcs like Ashley's current arc is one where she's going through though times for "Some Reason". Tough times like these should only grow a character and grow your attachment to them.

At least, that's what I think. I've been wrong about the other thing of course. So I'm still curious to hear about thoughts on sadness. Specifically sadness and drama that characters get over quickly.

As an example, Ashley's first even for v0.6 should end, or somewhat end, her current sadness arc.

Sorry it seems I edited my response to slow their friendship levels are 30 for all 3 of them.

 

[DarthSeduction]

On the subject of killing a character I have to agree with Runey. We all die. Does death make our existence meaningless? Absolutely not. Now, living through and experiencing love and life with a person and then they die, does that make all the love you had for them meaningless? Absolutely not. Sometimes we need to say goodbye.

Maybe hollywood is to blame with their business model of always giving a happy ending when possible. People have forgotten the power of tragedy. However, one of my absolute favorite films is Moulin Rouge. In the film, the main love interest dies. On top of that, it was already a romeo and juliet type situation where the male lead couldn't be with her for reasons. So they go through the whole plot to show that their love matters, that love is greater than the things that keep them apart, and then, in the end she dies. It didn't feel cheap, the story's message wasn't undercut, the villain still lost, and sure, our male lead was depressed for a long time, but that didn't ruin him, it inspired him.

 

[zerodead]

full save please?

 

[thedarkside1949]

I thought the v0.5 Update was supposed to be released on 25th. Why is it here so early?

 

[Runey]

Sorry it seems I edited my response to slow their friendship levels are 30 for all 3 of them.

Friendship 30 should be impossible unless you cheated. (Which is fine if you did, but you're going to miss out on every character's story until like v0.11)

Are you sure you're not looking at affection? Their friendship is in the heart. If the friendship in the heart is in fact 30, you're going to need to restart all over to revert the friendship changes you made.

On the subject of killing a character I have to agree with Runey. We all die. Does death make our existence meaningless? Absolutely not. Now, living through and experiencing love and life with a person and then they die, does that make all the love you had for them meaningless? Absolutely not. Sometimes we need to say goodbye.

Maybe hollywood is to blame with their business model of always giving a happy ending when possible. People have forgotten the power of tragedy. However, one of my absolute favorite films is Moulin Rouge. In the film, the main love interest dies. On top of that, it was already a romeo and juliet type situation where the male lead couldn't be with her for reasons. So they go through the whole plot to show that their love matters, that love is greater than the things that keep them apart, and then, in the end she dies. It didn't feel cheap, the story's message wasn't undercut, the villain still lost, and sure, our male lead was depressed for a long time, but that didn't ruin him, it inspired him.

But, this is a porn game. And that's what mainly convinced me. I love writing deep story, but first and foremost, this is a porn game. And death is unbefitting of porn. Unless you're a necrophiliac, it's going to be hard to keep your willy up.

Lets try to end the conversation of death, I think it's gone on way too long.