VN Ren'Py Onhold Hot Sand of Antarctica [v0.09] [Grinvald]

[TKdropemoff]

Damn the only true other option from desert stalker in this type of settingnow on hold..

fuck...

safe to say, this one is a wrap folks.

But aye, at least he paused or stopped all income, so there is honor in this.
Hope he comes back one day.

 

[MrBenny]

My understanding is, he’s saying he works 10–12 hours a day with no weekends if you combine both his day job and his game development. Assuming a 40-hour day job, that would mean he’s spending what, 30+ hours a week on game development on top of that? How about cutting that down to 15 or so instead?

Maybe with this title going to "on hold status", it removes the time crunch pressure that dev's feel trying to get their new releases out in a timely manner (keeping their paid members happy). Thus allowing the developer to maybe work on his awesome project at his own reasonable pace. (At least I hope he will be still working on it.)

Regards.

 

[micojive]

Not surprised. Add it to the pile of reasons to not give money to devs until a product is finished.

 

[J.R.]

Not surprised. Add it to the pile of reasons to not give money to devs until a product is finished.

Oh yes, and with that behaviour most games here wouldn't even exist

 

[Beerus]

Not surprised. Add it to the pile of reasons to not give money to devs until a product is finished.

The other side of the coin is "Perhaps if more people were already giving money to the dev, the game wouldn't have been put on hold."

Your comment can be added to the pile of reasons why devs struggle to maintain motivation and confidence. You could have just said nothing, yet you willingly chose to be a dickhead. Do better.

 

[micojive]

The other side of the coin is "Perhaps if more people were already giving money to the dev, the game wouldn't have been put on hold."

Your comment can be added to the pile of reasons why devs struggle to maintain motivation and confidence. You could have just said nothing, yet you willingly chose to be a dickhead. Do better.

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

 

[DickMcFuck]

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

thank god youre in the minority, otherwise there wouldnt be all to many games to spend your highly appreciated 20-30 bucks on.

 

[Beerus]

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

And what "trend" is that, exactly? The trend of indie devs being overworked and underappreciated, so they burnout to instead focus on their mental health and other priorities that actually pay the bills? Yeah, how dare the devs be... *checks notes*... human beings with responsibilities—I'm sure you'll learn what those when you're an adult and not a whiny little child.

You then talk about a lot of things you don't do. You can add "be a decent person" to the list. There's a lot more I could say, but you're either a troll or just severely stupid, so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

To the dev, Grinvald, I wish you well and hope you find your passion again someday. Myself, and many other reasonable, level-headed adults will be waiting for you if and when that happens. Best of luck to you, my friend, in whatever else you decide to do.

 

[flaviopaganini]

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

Patreon, as the name suggests, is not about selling a product or service, but rather about the practice of patronage. The concept of patronage dates back to the Middle Ages, when patrons played a crucial role in providing financial and moral support to artists so they could complete their works.

Patrons, often members of the nobility or the church, did not expect to receive anything tangible in return for their support. Instead, their goal was to promote culture and art, allowing artists to dedicate time and resources to creating their works without worrying about financial survival. This altruistic support enabled the flourishing of countless masterpieces that defined cultural eras.

In the modern context, Patreon revives this tradition, allowing anyone to become a patron. When an artist offers rewards to their supporters, these should not be seen as commercial transactions, but rather as exclusive privileges for those who appreciate and want to encourage the artist's continued work. The rewards are a form of gratitude and a means to strengthen the connection between the artist and their supporters, offering a more intimate and valued experience of the work.

Therefore, being a patron on Patreon is more than just a donation; it is an act of cultural support and an investment in the future of art and creativity.

 

[mintymuz]

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

In addition to what the fine people above have already said, your post shows you have no idea what Patreon is, and what patrons are actually paying for. They are not paying for the dev to complete a game, they are paying to support the dev, as flaviopaganini excellently details, while getting certain perks as a result. I have handily copied the top three tiers for this particular game:

As you can see, patrons here will receive preferential access to the latest version, voting rights, some extra scenes, etc. You'll notice how none of the tiers say anything about the game being completed, so what is the bit they advertised but didn't follow through on?

Patreon, for these creators, is about supporting developers who can use your support to, for instance, upgrade their machines to allow them to better create their game. I think you just have different, and incorrect, expectations about what Patreon actually is.

 

[muschi26]

The trend of indie devs being overworked and underappreciated

If you’re overworked, but you’re the one in charge of your work schedule, who are you complaining to?

And underappreciated? Is that just code for “doesn’t get paid enough”? If so, well, capitalism is a bitch: your time is worth what you can convince your boss it’s worth, and your product, what you can convince the buyers.

 

[Alfius]

Nah, this is a shitty trend in the indie dev community and shouldnt be encouraged to happen. Patreon as a funding platform for gaming without any compensation for people who do not follow through on what they are advertising is a failure of the system.

I dont give people money to spend on their golf game, I dont fund peoples movie watching habits, and I see no reason at all to fund random people dabbling in game development.

I have no problem spending 20-30 bucks on a finished game for these devs, but just will not fund someone to play with a hobby.

Kindly just leave this thread. You are rooting against the game, not supporting the developer. Please just leave and go play some completed game and give them your 20 bucks. Thank you and goodbye.

Sorry, the entitled attitude of some users is just the last straw. I have had it. Go spew your negativity elsewhere.

And yes, you can state your opinion and critique and no, I can not stop you. But in the same vein I don't need to keep quiet. So I'm just stating my opinion too.

 

[Alfius]

If you’re overworked, but you’re the one in charge of your work schedule, who are you complaining to?

And underappreciated? Is that just code for “doesn’t get paid enough”? If so, well, capitalism is a bitch: your time is worth what you can convince your boss it’s worth, and your product, what you can convince the buyers.

Hmmmm.... to entitled users that expect Indie game developers to spend 3 years working for free and then get a "hypothetical" pittance on a pirate forum where most users play the game for free.

I have no problem with the pirate forum, I'm one big fan of this site. But the entitlement of some users that shit on a dev for a game they get for free is not something I need to take lying down.

I don't like it and just as they can shit on the dev, I can shit on them. simples.

BTW. I agree with you. Your product is worth what people is willing to pay. But it is not a reason to shit on Indie developers who decides at some stage that the money is not enough, or that they do not spend enough time with their family...etc...etc.

 

[Beerus]

If you’re overworked, but you’re the one in charge of your work schedule, who are you complaining to?

Any dev who takes this seriously crunches and overworks themselves. Every single legitimate dev that I've talked to—and obviously, as a dev myself—understands that while there is no "clock in at 8am, clock out at 4pm", we are constantly working and thinking on our games. The faster the next update is released, the better it is for everyone involved (including possible monetary reasons for the dev in question). So yeah, there is an internal clock within me that is constantly pushing me to keep working, keep brainstorming, so that the next update is sooner rather than later.

I thought this would be common sense but I need to remember who I'm talking to.

And underappreciated? Is that just code for “doesn’t get paid enough”?

No, it's code for "constantly dealing with idiotic and ungrateful consumers." You know, like you and the other whiny child in the thread. The fact you're so clueless only adds to this.

 

[muschi26]

Hmmmm.... to entitled users that expect Indie game developers to spend 3 years working for free and then get a "hypothetical" pittance on a pirate forum where most users play the game for free.

I have no problem with the pirate forum, I'm one big fan of this site. But the entitlement of some users that shit on a dev for a game they get for free is not something I need to take lying down.

I don't like it and just as they can shit on the dev, I can shit on them. simples.

BTW. I agree with you. Your product is worth what people is willing to pay. But it is not a reason to shit on Indie developers who decides at some stage that the money is not enough, or that they do not spend enough time with their family...etc...etc.

I agree that there are a lot of horribly entitled consumers on the Internet.

However, I think it’s at least partially a symptom of devs (I think a lot of tech people are guilty of this in general) choosing to do stupid things like work 100-hour weeks to get that release in as fast as possible instead of setting healthy boundaries from the get-go. In the video game industry, companies learned to rely on this sort of self-sacrifice and exploit it; and here, on the Internet, it’s fuelled a lot of angry leeches who grew to expect devs to literally kill themselves in order to make deadlines.

 

[Alfius]

I agree that there are a lot of horribly entitled consumers on the Internet.

However, I think it’s at least partially a symptom of devs (I think a lot of tech people are guilty of this in general) choosing to do stupid things like work 100-hour weeks to get that release in as fast as possible instead of setting healthy boundaries from the get-go. In the video game industry, companies learned to rely on this sort of self-sacrifice and exploit it; and here, on the Internet, it’s fuelled a lot of angry leeches who grew to expect devs to literally kill themselves in order to make deadlines.

I kinda agree with you, but the reason that devs put themselves under pressure is 1) They want to actually write a good game in as short a time as possible. 2) Expectations from the game fans. Obviously, they do not want to disappoint their fans.
If I write a game and tell you that you will see the next update in 12 months.... no one is going to be enthusiastic about it.
So the dev tries his best to come up with what he thinks is achievable and what he thinks will be acceptable for his fans....1-3 months I think is what is deemed acceptable here (Unless you are one of the top games).

No dev starts out a game with expectations to fail. So the timelines needs to be doable, but also needs to keep your new fans happy. So it's not really up to the dev. Add on top of that if people are starting to pay for the updates, then the pressure increases a lot more. People are now actually paying for this thing. So now it becomes an obligation to release at expected dates.

So unfortunately, It's not really completely up to the dev to determine the dev timelines. Yes if your name is Dr Pinkcake or Dark Cookie (Though he was really pushing the limit), then you can dictate your own timelines.

 

[TigerWolfe]

I kinda agree with you, but the reason that devs put themselves under pressure is 1) They want to actually write a good game in as short a time as possible. 2) Expectations from the game fans. Obviously, they do not want to disappoint their fans.
If I write a game and tell you that you will see the next update in 12 months.... no one is going to be enthusiastic about it.
So the dev tries his best to come up with what he thinks is achievable and what he thinks will be acceptable for his fans....1-3 months I think is what is deemed acceptable here (Unless you are one of the top games).

No dev starts out a game with expectations to fail. So the timelines needs to be doable, but also needs to keep your new fans happy. So it's not really up to the dev. Add on top of that if people are starting to pay for the updates, then the pressure increases a lot more. People are now actually paying for this thing. So now it becomes an obligation to release at expected dates.

So unfortunately, It's not really completely up to the dev to determine the dev timelines. Yes if your name is Dr Pinkcake or Dark Cookie (Though he was really pushing the limit), then you can dictate your own timelines.

Add in everyone and their brother demanding the option to opt out of this or that scene and shit grows exponentially real fast.

Play it or pound sand devs are ime much less likely to burn out.

 

[Beerus]

Add in everyone and their brother demanding the option to opt out of this or that scene and shit grows exponentially real fast.

Play it or pound sand devs are ime much less likely to burn out.

Avoidable/skippable content, branching paths, multiple choices, multiple endings, etc...

 

[Alfius]

Add in everyone and their brother demanding the option to opt out of this or that scene and shit grows exponentially real fast.

Play it or pound sand devs are ime much less likely to burn out.

So true, unfortunately a lot of devs are just normal humans that can buckle under pressure. Some people think they are super humans.

 

[muschi26]

Any dev who takes this seriously crunches and overworks themselves. Every single legitimate dev that I've talked to—and obviously, as a dev myself—understands that while there is no "clock in at 8am, clock out at 4pm", we are constantly working and thinking on our games. The faster the next update is released, the better it is for everyone involved (including possible monetary reasons for the dev in question). So yeah, there is an internal clock within me that is constantly pushing me to keep working, keep brainstorming, so that the next update is sooner rather than later.

I thought this would be common sense but I need to remember who I'm talking to.

That mindset is what enables companies like EA to exploit their developers, and what results in so many burnouts. Of course you’re “always thinking about your games”—that’s how creatives work—but you have to set healthy limits too. Authors like Stephen King or Brandon Sanderson have set schedules: they have a four-hour writing period in the morning or the afternoon, and, when that’s over, they’re done for that day. Video games and novels command similar production times; it follows that the same motto ought to apply to both: it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

There are games on this site which achieve a monthly release because made by an organized team that puts in the time and clocks out; there are other games which achieve the same monthly release because of a single dev pulling 100-hour work weeks. One of these is sustainable and healthy; the other is not. If you don’t have a full team, don’t try to put out like you do; set reasonable expectations and work within your limits.

The faster the next update is released, the better it is for everyone involved (including possible monetary reasons for the dev in question).

And then you burn out. And everybody’s still wondering how we got to this point, for some reason.

As for monetary reasons, the way I see it, you’re in one of two camps:

1. You’re actually trying to break onto the scene and pivot to being a full-time dev, in which case you’ve already shot yourself in the foot by making a porn game. Even so, you’re best off going about it as you would a part-time degree: by being patient, and putting in an hour or two of study weekdays, with a bit more on the weekend; you can’t have a full-time job and undertake a full five course trimester—it’s just not possible; or,
2. You’re doing this as a hobby, in which case you have even less of a reason to break your back trying to hit deadlines, and even less of a reason to worry about money. It’s already quite an achievement that people are paying you anything for a hobby; I have a few hobbies myself, and I’d be stoked if I ever got to make a single buck from any of them.