Ren'Py Insatiable [v0.3.3] [cumAgain? Games]

[Kryptozoid]

While the images do overall look much sharper, a lot of detail is actually lost on the models themselves. For example what would look like fine hairs are lost, or the shading of the wrinkles on the balls and the vein on the shaft... they turn from shading to sharp lines. What were finer details and shadows etc before become smoothed out to nothing or sharp lines.

It's an obvious tradeoff, but I personally prefer the original, lower res images because they actually preserve a lot more of that finer detail, the subtle shading of small shadows, hints of body hair, etc.

The AI resized ones almost look cel shaded. That might be fine if that's the look you were going for, but it's not actually the level of detail the original models have available or what that VAM engine seems to have intended.

Please forgive the zoom on the junk, but hopefully this helps explain what I mean:

View attachment 2758533

Instead of the subtle shading showing the vein on the shaft, you have sharp lines. Instead of the subtle hints of the wrinkles on the scrotum, you get what looks like a very sharp fingerprint pattern.

Again, it's like cel shading. Probably wouldn't matter if people weren't looking closely, but since we're comparing image quality I thought I'd point it out.

As I said, I'd prefer the originals at this point unless better "edge detection" could be done to not do that to the internal details, and only sharpen up the edges of the models and other straightline edges like furniture, walls, doorways, etc.

I agree with you, but keep in mind I just applied a one click solution with default/automatic settings. I'm sure there's a way to do better fiddling with the settings. But maybe an easier solution would just be to use VAM native 4k renders. I've seen other games done like this, for example games from Dumb Koala like this one : https://f95zone.to/threads/claras-love-hotel-v1-0-special-edition-dumb-koala-games.95233/

No idea why this dev doesn't do the same. Maybe he has a real potato PC, but I wish he would invest in something better. These compressed/low res CGs could look so much better. Cause like I said, he's already better than most at making good looking characters and nice fcial expressions. So why waste it with a low quality final image ?

 

[phreadom]

I agree with you, but keep in mind I just applied a one click solution with default/automatic settings. I'm sure there's a way to do better fiddling with the settings. But maybe an easier solution would just be to use VAM native 4k renders. I've seen other games done like this, for example games from Dumb Koala like this one : https://f95zone.to/threads/claras-love-hotel-v1-0-special-edition-dumb-koala-games.95233/

No idea why this dev doesn't do the same. Maybe he has a real potato PC, but I wish he would invest in something better. These compressed/low res CGs could look so much better. Cause like I said, he's already better than most at making good looking characters and nice fcial expressions. So why waste it with a low quality final image ?

Ah, all great points. I am not familiar with VAM so I didn't know if there were some inherent limitations on resolution etc. Good to know it can do high res renders like that natively.

 

[cumAgainGames]

I agree with you, but keep in mind I just applied a one click solution with default/automatic settings. I'm sure there's a way to do better fiddling with the settings. But maybe an easier solution would just be to use VAM native 4k renders. I've seen other games done like this, for example games from Dumb Koala like this one : https://f95zone.to/threads/claras-love-hotel-v1-0-special-edition-dumb-koala-games.95233/

No idea why this dev doesn't do the same. Maybe he has a real potato PC, but I wish he would invest in something better. These compressed/low res CGs could look so much better. Cause like I said, he's already better than most at making good looking characters and nice fcial expressions. So why waste it with a low quality final image ?

This is all great feedback for me.
4k is nice but for various reasons I decided on 1080.

A few people have raised issue with blurry images which I had put down to poor lighting in my earlier renders but it seems as though there might be more to it.
I have always reduced the quality of the source jpg images down to 70% to save on file size. Currently the difference between reduced and original is 400 MB vs 2.7GB.

I always thought the difference in quality was negligible but you can judge for yourself. Here's the original jpegs available to download:

You must be registered to see the links

I'd be interested in yours (and others) feedback. Are these images better or not?
To use them in game just overwrite images in: <<install dir>>/game/images

 

[Kryptozoid]

This is all great feedback for me.
4k is nice but for various reasons I decided on 1080.

A few people have raised issue with blurry images which I had put down to poor lighting in my earlier renders but it seems as though there might be more to it.
I have always reduced the quality of the source jpg images down to 70% to save on file size. Currently the difference between reduced and original is 400 MB vs 2.7GB.

I always thought the difference in quality was negligible but you can judge for yourself. Here's the original jpegs available to download:
Mega

I'd be interested in yours (and others) feedback. Are these images better or not?
To use them in game just overwrite images in: <<install dir>>/game/images

Thanks, it's clearly better but :

- Kitchen, Living room and shower scenes clearly need a bit more light

- Some images are still a bit blurrier than they should. I'm pretty sure it would look sharper if you used 4k native renders/Or 4K reduced to 1080p
Try it with some images you already rendered in 1080 and upload here if you want our opinion, but I'm pretty sure you'll see the sharpness difference yourself, unless you have a very small screen.
(Dumb Koala does 2 versions, one 1080, one 4k, and you can put the 4k one on a higher tier in your Patreon or whatever you use)

- If you worry about size, try webp, but same thing : use 90% + quality. Personnaly I'm fine with jpg at 90% but webp at same quality will take less space and look the same.



More nitpicking about light :

- It's not only that there isn't enough light in the rooms I mentionned, it's also that lighting looks "flat" and doesn't feel like the characters are realy in the room sometimes. Like in the kitchen sometimes you see the physical lights and light bulbs in the room but light clearly doesn't come from there and is like uniform and low intensity white light which makes the scene look greyish and not contrasted. Try to place your lights where they would be placed in a real room, vary light colors and intensity etc...
There's probably tutorials about lights in VAM, but even if there isn't, you can watch any tutorial about lighting in a 3D program (Blender, TK17, Honey Select...whatever) the same principles apply.

Just try to use something appropriate and not go too far. Like : white neon light in bathroom, warmer yellow light in kitchen, etc.... Don't transform all the rooms into a nightclub, but give some "mood" and reinforce the presence of your characters with the help of lights. And don't be afraid to cheat, if the 2 lights in the kitchen that exist physically don't work as you want, just add a neutral/slightly yellow global light in the room or something. As long as it doesn't look totally weird with big shadows that shouldn't be there it's fine.


Noise :

- unless it's on purpose, you could also remove the visible noise we can see in the low light scenes (same rooms I mentionned for example) using one of the Topaz programs for noise (or photo AI which odes several thigs including Noise). Or maybe it's just a setting to deactivate in VAM and boom : no more noise. I don't know.

 

[Aereon1104]

what about webp?

 

[cumAgainGames]

what about webp?

Yes, in next release I'll convert to webp as files are much smaller.

 

[lustforhunks]

I really love this game! The MC is gorgeous！Hope there will be more and more adult games with young energetic handsome horny hunks! MC's father is also a hot hunk! I wonder what happened? He will be back in the end? If MC cannot defeat the female orc, he will be an loser again？Really wanna see hot daddy and MC have threesome with stepmom！Gloria the stepmom desperately needs some good sex！ She is such a cougar who could eat MC alive

 

[Bender]

Are there plans to potentially add audio to the game, or will it remain silent? I think it's great either way, was just wondering

 

[cumAgainGames]

Are there plans to potentially add audio to the game, or will it remain silent? I think it's great either way, was just wondering

No plans yet. If I do, it will be the very last thing I do after everything else is completed, and sourcing sound FX and music will likely cost money.
On a side note, I’ve seen some other games play with ai-generated voice which looks promising.

 

[Aereon1104]

No plans yet. If I do, it will be the very last thing I do after everything else is completed, and sourcing sound FX and music will likely cost money.
On a side note, I’ve seen some other games play with ai-generated voice which looks promising.

for the love of everything holy please consider not adding AI content (I know is your game, just think about the perception of the users about receiving AI content )

 

[Kryptozoid]

for the love of everything holy please consider not adding AI content (I know is your game, just think about the perception of the users about receiving AI content )

Ooooooh AI is bad, AI is evil.... It's just a tech, dude. You can make good content or shit content with it. Still depends on the skills/talent of the creator who uses it.

Regarding AI voice, whether you like it or not, we are now in a time when dev can record his voice to make all the dialogues of a female character, then transform his voice into Scarlett Johansson's voice. You need 10-15mn of her voice, 3 hours of computing, and then it's super fast to convert any voice into hers. But, as any AI product, if dev can't act to save his life, it will sound like shit anyways.

So I don't get all the "AI is bad" shit. Even if it was, you can't fight it, it's there. The only thing you can do is to learn to use it as best as possible, just like you would with any other tool, like Photoshop, DAZ or VAM.

And btw, AI is already there in Photoshop and Blender.

 

[phreadom]

Ooooooh AI is bad, AI is evil.... It's just a tech, dude. You can make good content or shit content with it. Still depends on the skills/talent of the creator who uses it.

Regarding AI voice, whether you like it or not, we are now in a time when dev can record his voice to make all the dialogues of a female character, then transform his voice into Scarlett Johansson's voice. You need 10-15mn of her voice, 3 hours of computing, and then it's super fast to convert any voice into hers. But, as any AI product, if dev can't act to save his life, it will sound like shit anyways.

So I don't get all the "AI is bad" shit. Even if it was, you can't fight it, it's there. The only thing you can do is to learn to use it as best as possible, just like you would with any other tool, like Photoshop, DAZ or VAM.

And btw, AI is already there in Photoshop and Blender.

Odd that you get so upset about this.

The reality is that the technology is NOT MATURE for this application. AI made games have images that look good in isolation, but have trouble creating a very cohesive feeling game. Because you're not really in control of what gets created. So the characters don't quite look consistent, etc. The backgrounds don't actually make sense if you look closely, etc.

It might be fun to tinker with right now, but any really high quality, lengthy game is going to be FAR better off using traditional tools.

(And personally I mute the voices in every single game. I can't stand them. I wish devs would focus more on making the game than trying to find voice actors or worry about voicing them, but that's just me personally.)

I have played several AI CG games here on f95zone, and while they usually look pretty good, you can pick them out a mile away. They all share the same feel, they all have a handful of images that feel disjointed... not quite right, don't actually match from one frame to the next, and so on. They're a fun diversion for a few minutes, but they're not there yet.

So again, go ahead and play with the tools, but DON'T RUIN A FANTASTIC GAME by switching to AI for this game when you have so much incredible and consistent work done already.

Do a side project if you want to tinker with an immature and inferior tool. Just don't wreck your existing masterpiece over it.

 

[Kenarius90]

Are there plans to add multiple penetration with other male characters? as well as adding a new depraved wardrobe

 

[Kryptozoid]

Odd that you get so upset about this.

The reality is that the technology is NOT MATURE for this application. AI made games have images that look good in isolation, but have trouble creating a very cohesive feeling game. Because you're not really in control of what gets created. So the characters don't quite look consistent, etc. The backgrounds don't actually make sense if you look closely, etc.

It might be fun to tinker with right now, but any really high quality, lengthy game is going to be FAR better off using traditional tools.

(And personally I mute the voices in every single game. I can't stand them. I wish devs would focus more on making the game than trying to find voice actors or worry about voicing them, but that's just me personally.)

I have played several AI CG games here on f95zone, and while they usually look pretty good, you can pick them out a mile away. They all share the same feel, they all have a handful of images that feel disjointed... not quite right, don't actually match from one frame to the next, and so on. They're a fun diversion for a few minutes, but they're not there yet.

So again, go ahead and play with the tools, but DON'T RUIN A FANTASTIC GAME by switching to AI for this game when you have so much incredible and consistent work done already.

Do a side project if you want to tinker with an immature and inferior tool. Just don't wreck your existing masterpiece over it.

I'm not upset about what you've explained, I agree that it's not a mature technology, and at the very minimum that if you use it, you almost never can use it "as is", you need hours of Photoshop, or the use of various plugins in Stable Diffusion to make it coherent. Which indeed, most devs who made AI games until now don't seem to do, or they do but they didn't succeed yet.

I thought you were talking about this hopeless trend that is currently happening with artists saying "AI is stealing my job it must be banned at all cost" as if it was something that could be stopped. In its current state, AI can be used by artists to explore ideas, but still can't make a final product. You still need art skills to polish it. It can however be used by children's book editors and such to not pay for real artists, but the end result is cheap products. There is a market for it, but for real high end stuff like Hollywood level VFX, we're far from replacing artists.

It's the same as for deepfakes or 3D rendering, people outside of the field think you just have to push a button and the computer does all the work.

Anyways, I also agree with you about Voice, that's not something I'm interested in that kind of game. As well as animations : people asking for animations all the time in porn VNs don't realize that making a 5sec animation = ~150 still images could be made instead, and move the story forward, or have 2-3 sex scenes, instead of a 5sec loop of "penis goes into pussy". Most of the dev teams in this field are one or 2 persons, nobody has a 20 persons team where doing both anims and still images wouldn't be a problem. Even guys like NLT who make a lot money and work many hours 24/7 : there's quite a lot of anims each update, but still images ? Not so much. Same sprites re-used many times, same bg images, because animation takes time even if you are skilled and have enough $$$ to have monster computers and render it fast.

 

[phreadom]

I'm not upset about what you've explained, I agree that it's not a mature technology, and at the very minimum that if you use it, you almost never can use it "as is", you need hours of Photoshop, or the use of various plugins in Stable Diffusion to make it coherent. Which indeed, most devs who made AI games until now don't seem to do, or they do but they didn't succeed yet.

I thought you were talking about this hopeless trend that is currently happening with artists saying "AI is stealing my job it must be banned at all cost" as if it was something that could be stopped. In its current state, AI can be used by artists to explore ideas, but still can't make a final product. You still need art skills to polish it. It can however be used by children's book editors and such to not pay for real artists, but the end result is cheap products. There is a market for it, but for real high end stuff like Hollywood level VFX, we're far from replacing artists.

It's the same as for deepfakes or 3D rendering, people outside of the field think you just have to push a button and the computer does all the work.

Anyways, I also agree with you about Voice, that's not something I'm interested in that kind of game. As well as animations : people asking for animations all the time in porn VNs don't realize that making a 5sec animation = ~150 still images could be made instead, and move the story forward, or have 2-3 sex scenes, instead of a 5sec loop of "penis goes into pussy". Most of the dev teams in this field are one or 2 persons, nobody has a 20 persons team where doing both anims and still images wouldn't be a problem. Even guys like NLT who make a lot money and work many hours 24/7 : there's quite a lot of anims each update, but still images ? Not so much. Same sprites re-used many times, same bg images, because animation takes time even if you are skilled and have enough $$$ to have monster computers and render it fast.

Well said, I agree. Definitely an incredibly powerful tool that there's no avoiding at this point. We're going to have to learn how to work with it going forward. There's no going back.

 

[Aereon1104]

adding a new depraved wardrobe

Ey thats a nice idea

 

[Toukebri]

Can you message back the models on Chat'n'fap?

 

[Toukebri]

Also, there seems to be a missing scene you get a pump from working out and then having a shower with Summer at night. It doesn't seem to trigger, there's just the bathroom in the background and a dialogue stating "Placeholder- Stepsis Shower Pumped BJ".

 

[cumAgainGames]

Also, there seems to be a missing scene you get a pump from working out and then having a shower with Summer at night. It doesn't seem to trigger, there's just the bathroom in the background and a dialogue stating "Placeholder- Stepsis Shower Pumped BJ".

Thanks for letting me know. I'll fix it for next release.

 

[cumAgainGames]

Can you message back the models on Chat'n'fap?

No, but that would be an interesting mechanic. How would it work? eg. would player choose positive/negative response?