VN Ren'Py Intertwined [v0.12.3] [Nyx]

[hakuna-matata]

Mfs be writing the Da Vinci Code for AVN characters.

These mofos here are writing the next installment of Harry Potter

Best part of it, I did write that text wall at work. In my defence, it was a break time.

 

[jllkfsdj]

First of all, holy fucking text wall. Let's go from bottom to top,


and here's the one I accepted of his and listed mine. (not the whole post since this post became a novel, you can click and see all if you want)

I agree with pretty much every single thing you said. Thank you for putting it in words so succinctly, I've tried to but made a mess of it.

 

[Z3r0K00l]

I dont get why you people feel the need to justify & impose your personal preferences upon total strangers in the internet.
You can like/dislike whoever you want for whatever reasons you want and there's no need to get other people to approve of your likes and dislikes.

 

[Dessolos]

First of all, holy fucking text wall. Let's go from bottom to top,


irl, I am good at "forgive and forget" but I prefer "forget and move on" because of the shits I've been through and mostly the people I forgave did the same after I forgave them. Though I am glad you have not met that many toxic people so you can still see forgiving as a noble act.


Looks like this is the point we are differentiate, what she did was not giving chance to Ethan, it was choosing Ethan over MC. In life, there are some points you make a choice between things. When your new friend bullies your old friend and openly declares he will keep doing it, if you stick with him, that means you are choosing him over the other one. It's not exactly giving another chance because that chance cost you your friendship. She did the same with all other friends too except Alexis. Even Alexis choice was hard to make for her too. When Ethan turned his target on Erynn, it was the time he became bad guy. This shows how bad a person Erynn was. You can not weasel out claiming you were naive and kind.


Completely, absolutely wrong. We do know exact point when she figured it out. We do know how she acted to Alexis after that. We do know how she acted to MC after that. Erynn find out about it when MC gave his phone to her to make a phone call. She immediately storm out to meet with Alexis. She yelled at her, blamed her and even accuse her lying about Ethan(so she still believes Ethan, after all he had done to her and her friends) and stormed off the bar without giving Alexis a chance to explain herself, left her broke down crying in her workplace. Then came back to her house, kicked out MC who had nowhere to go without giving any explanation. If MC try to understand what's going on, she just yell at him. He did not even had a chance to get his stuff.
I really don't understand "woulda, coulda, shoulda" defence. In certain situations there are certain expectations from people, usually accepted by the society. When you did not meet them people say you shoulda do that, coulda done anything else, woulda been better etc.
Let's try it over an example, if you are in an exclusive relationship you should stay faithful. If you cheat on her. People say you should have stayed faithful, you could have break up before cheating that would have been better. If you say don't use "woulda, coulda, shoulda" that is not logical explanation, don't you think?


Some things cool down over the time and some others boil up. In what MC has been through, it is expected his anger would cool down and his grudge boil up over time. She did not afraid of his anger because as he stated in the game he is no longer angry but he still holds grudge over it and when she noticed that she was afraid of that. She even acknowledged that within her thought "after all this time, he might still has lingering feelings." No one would want to get cut off of someone they like especially for a thing they did not even commit. Blame was on Erynn, not Alexis but she still felt guilty over that and she left the plane without MC noticed. So what Alexis did on the plane was wrong I've never defended it but it was somewhat acceptable and tbh a little bit expected. Even next time they met in Alexis' house, it still is acceptable because their interaction interrupted by someone, most likely Layla. Where she dropped the ball was afterwards, she should have said who she was to MC because they were starting to a relationship. Confessing to MC much more important than confessing to Erynn but everyone blames her for Erynn not for MC.


I feel like you are overlooking what I say on purpose. When MC came back to town, you can choose to avoid Erynn. Next day she ambushes the MC in his bed to get answers. He still is actively avoiding Erynn and he still is an asshole, in your words, because he got angry over most likely the most terrible experience he have been through. She got the answers when she wanted it. She even reached that point next morning, did not need weeks. I am saying when she wanted it, she can do that. If she wanted that she could have manage to have a talk with MC in that several weeks. Other points that I said you all wrongfully lingering, was extreme examples how could she have done that. Alexis, Emily, Melissa, showing up at his house these are all extreme, some more than others, paths she could have taken. Is it possible, yes; is it likely, probably not but my point in this when there is a will, there's a way. As a good friend what expected from her was at least get an explanation from MC why he was avoiding her since she was too stupid to understand what she did to him. Did she do that in any way? No she did not. That makes her a bad person in my eyes.


The game does not say "she tried her best but she didn't succeed" it is Erynn's claim in the game, there is a difference. You don't even reach that scene if you don't trust Erynn. You are asking about what I think she is lying about, the answer is this. I think she is lying about this, only thing against that is the Erynn's words which I don't believe in the first place. You are saying both involved parties seems to agree, which is not true. Erynn is the one making the claim, whether or not she agrees irrelevant. MC agrees to that, only you as a player go down on that path. First you choose the option to trust and listen Erynn, then you claim MC accepts it. That is at best ridiculous, MC did not accepted it you did. You can also choose to leave Erynn getting beat up by Ethan in a dark alley and he basically says she deserved it. What do you think is this MC looks like would accept Erynn's explanation?
Btw, it is a fairly long text wall for someone who does not care about it, just sayin'.

I over and over said this is not the reason I dislike her, I am not even mad at her let alone try to justify it. I am saying it isn't about the confession because it is not. If you checked how this discussion started, Dessolos said she likes Erynn and I asked why, because I wanted to see other side's opinion on her. He explained his reasoning which I accepted, even joined some of his thoughts. We even agreed on punch counter of Ethan would be good. Then I said I dislike her and listed some interactions I found weird about her. It was not only confession, there were some other things too. It was not even discussion at that point, we shared our opinions on a character. I admit after I read his reasoning, I see Erynn in a different light. Iirc, Dessolos said the same in another post.
Then you people started bashing me why I was wrong about confession, how I misunderstood, how I missed key elements etc. so I basically replied with I am aware all the points you are making and I still stand behind my opinions, though still I accept other opinions and it is just seeing something from different eyes. Also, I am not alone on this opinion so it's not an uncommon one either. If you check last a few pages, you can see that.

But I wholeheartedly agree, let's not dwell on it like it was intended to in the first place.
Here's the post I asked about Erynn,

and here's the one I accepted of his and listed mine. (not the whole post since this post became a novel, you can click and see all if you want)

While I don't fully agree with some of your opinions or reasoning here I also see / understand your points you are making. I just wanted to say it was interesting to read as I love how in these games we both can see a certain scene or scenario completely different. Which imo is the beauty in playing AVN's and reading other people's thought on these forums.

 

[Acsuka]

I dont get why you people feel the need to justify & impose your personal preferences upon total strangers in the internet.
You can like/dislike whoever you want for whatever reasons you want and there's no need to get other people to approve of your likes and dislikes.

It's not worth grumbling about, mate... This will always be the way it is, you can't change it... You're helping yourself: ignore the unpleasant comments...

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

You've been writing text walls for a while yourself haven't you?

Yeah guilty as charged. I tend to do that when I get bored, sorry.

At that point she didn't think it was necessary to chose between them, she thought the situation could be handled in a different way, was that the right decision? No it was not.
But she didn't know just how evil Ethan could get.
Then the MC leaves town and takes himself off the table...
At any time if Erynn wanted Ethan she could've had him, this wasn't her prioritizing him, it was simply her being a naive trusting person.

So you are claiming Erynn was so stupid she thought she could keep both bully who refuse to stop and bullied one as a friend, you also are intentionally stuck the situation in a single point. She said if you keep bullying him, we are no longer gonna be friends and he responded it with he won't stop bullying him, this interaction alone should be the end of Ethan Erynn friendship, it was not. She should have noticed when MC was avoiding her, keeping Ethan as a friend is costing her to her friendship with MC, if she was not a moron. So either she is a moron or she chose Ethan over MC. After MC left, which was clear indication that their friendship was lost, she kept Ethan close did not even think to punish him for causing she lost a dear friend. She even did to opposite becoming closer to Ethan and believed his good guy façade. He did the same with all of her friends as he did with MC, she still kept him as a friend. This is not being naive trusting person, this is being idiot or selfish. She did notice Ethan was bad when he became bad to her, it was okay as long as he was bullying others when the table turns, she was okay to ask the help of the person who got bullied.
Now we call this 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' just because she did not sleep with Ethan, does not mean she was not prioritizing him over MC, completely irrelevant.

We are talking about 2 different things regarding Alexis, i was talking about when did Erynn find out about the kiss from 5 years ago?
You were insistent on using Alexis to help in that situation, "Alexis and the MC have a good relationship" despite the fact that as far as Erynn knows they have 0 relationship, so i was questioning "does Erynn even know that they interacted?".
Coming back to the present, not showing absolute faith in Alexis words after she proves duplicitous is just human nature, and even then she goes back to trusting her words again shortly after, even before they make up.

Fair enough. I don't think Erynn found out about that kiss. There was no reason to Alexis confess that kiss and in the bar confrontation when Erynn said you never cared MC to Alexis she started to talk about this scene iirc while Alexis almost reached to kissing part, Erynn cut her off. So I don't think she know about that kiss.
For asking help of Alexis, you should refer to last post. It was an extreme solution, I am aware but it still is a way. Alexis was best friend of Erynn, her confidant and there was no animosity between MC and Alexis, they were on friendly terms, not a friend maybe but friendly. She could easily explain that MC misunderstood and she could have arranged a talk between MC and Erynn. You are saying MC was being brat about it and avoid the confrontation as Emily said he is stubborn fella also but when Emily said there must be a misunderstanding he was ready to listen and went back to her place. So anyone who started a convo with him 'you misunderstood here's why' he was ready to take it. Emily had an authority over MC, if Erynn asked her help she could have forced MC to listen also. Melisa is a tricky one but she could have arranged something. Like a pool related situation to force Erynn and MMC share a space etc. Now, only logical explanation of this that Erynn is not good with asking help and even worse to receive it. If she asked Melisa's help with Ethan situation, Melisa would have probably kill Ethan but she did not ask any help for that either. 'booo wrong' is not a good explanation.

The game offers various choices, Erynn's side is obviously portrayed better if you choose to give her a chance and listen to what she has to say, than if you are still holding a grudge and just wants to stay the fuck away from her, that should be obvious, but it seems like you want to stay angry.

I think we really don't understand each other. I am not angry at her, I am even convinced we should help her with Ethan situation but I don't see her neither as LI nor a friend to MC and I don't think she is kind nor innocent. That's it from me.

On holding on to grudges, i just think it's time the MC recognizes Erynn never intended to hurt him, she did try to reach him and he made some mistakes of his own... to me this seems a situation of forgiveness instead of holding on to a pointless grudge that you know by now only happened because of a misunderstanding and bad timing.

I don't understand how we look at the same thing and see so much different. Was there misunderstanding and bad timing involved, obviously but there was also series of bad choice from Erynn too. She was aware Ethan was bullying MC, do you deny this? She was also aware Ethan has all the intention to keep bullying MC, do you deny this? She still was friend with him, a close one too bike ridings etc., do you deny this? None of these is related to any misunderstanding or bad timing.
Also are you aware MC got beating from Ethan because he helped Erynn and only saved by Val? You keep repeating it was in the past but it is not. Erynn being close to Ethan is always dangerous to MC, it caused bullying, psychical confrontation, emotional damage etc. in the past and he just reconnected with Erynn and it cost him getting beat up from Ethan. Also one should be imbecile to not understand that Erynn situation brewing more danger to MC and people around him.

Yeah you stand behind your opinion despite it being factually contradicted in game, everyone already got that, you have your own made up mind.

It is not factually contradict in game, where do you get that? Only thing that support it Erynn's claims and they are not factual, they as subjective as subjectivity goes. Like I said, like already has been said, we see that event from other people's eyes that does not necessarily mean they are true. We are lacking a trustable source of the event but you are appealing to ignorance, this is a logical fallacy. Do you want to trust Erynn? be my guest. I don't trust her and that's it.
Since we went to logical fallacy, just because everyone accepts something that does make it true. It is a logical fallacy called, argumentum ad populum. Be wary of it, it's mother of dictatorships, authoritarian regimes, totalitarian regimes etc. and also it still is not true.
Here's a few examples of not supporting your ideas, people who did not get that

I agree with pretty much every single thing you said. Thank you for putting it in words so succinctly, I've tried to but made a mess of it.

People can apologize or rationalize Erynn in regards to her past actions that make her look bad however much they want and it won't change that she'd committed them, plus the fact remains that she didn't change at all in these 5 years. She finds out Lexi and MC are dating and throws a huge bitchy selfish fit, for what exactly?

I think it's understandable for Erynn to do that if she were caught by surprise and wasn't really sure how to handle the situation. She was basically stalling for time until she could think of something to say. She was caught off-guard and made a mistake. I'm not going to hold that against her. The real problem is that she was friends with Ethan at all after knowing that he was bullying a kid. During her flashback of past events, Erynn specifically asks "Why do you always bully him?", which clearly shows that she knows Ethan has been consistently bullying him in the past, and yet she is still hanging out with Ethan daily.

I think that my issue with Erynn doesn't have anything to do with what she did as a kid. Kids are stupid and mean. It is that as an adult she is still so immature and presumptuous. She has the audacity of a drunken frat boy and half the charm. She has been estranged from her neighbor for the entirety of his teenage years and their last conversation before an awkward encounter - where she tried to horn in on his evening out with friends - involved him getting humiliated and pushed into the dirt and yet she has the unmitigated balls to sneak into his bedroom in the morning and jump on his bed while he is sleeping like they are still 11. He has been ignoring her for years and yet she still hasn't read the room or picked up the hints. No, Erynn. Fuck off. You are overestimating our intimacy by many orders of magnitudes. One of my pet peeves is people who think that they can just pick up a relationship in progress after putting in zero effort for years. If you have ever had an old friend who ghosted you for half a decade and thinks that you are the same person with the same feelings toward them you will feel MC's irritation and mortification with Erynn.

And here some after reading our text walls, leaning to dislike her.

I dunno but these explanations are more of disliking Erynn than making much sense

So what do you think, you said everyone got that but I feel like these people didn't, maybe they didn't get the memo.

 

[jllkfsdj]

Your first point is a bit off because the MC did offer for her to use the phone. He just happened to get a text from Alexis during that time.

He offered her the phone to call her friend (who he didn't know was Lexi), NOT to snoop through his private shit. This is a big difference.

An example: if you receive your neighbor's mail in your mailbox, you are allowed to give it to him personally (without looking at sender address) instead of giving it to the mailman to go back to post office and be sorted again and then be handed to the mailman again to arrive to the house or apartment next to yours, but you are NOT allowed to open it and read it! In the US it's a federal crime to do that, meaning you can be prosecuted over state lines.
" What's not so widely understood is just how serious the consequences can be. Intentionally opening, intercepting or hiding someone else's mail is the felony crime of mail theft. It comes with some heavyweight penalties, including fines of up to $250,000 and five years' incarceration in a federal prison. "

In regards to going through someone's phone.

You must be registered to see the links

"Although specific laws vary from country to country, going through someone’s phone without permission is illegal. Wiretapping and privacy laws around the world enforce this through criminal charges. Even though tracking someone through cell phones and going through their messages are easier now, it doesn’t mean you can legally do so. Again, going through them without the owner’s permission is illegal"

Permission to go through either his messages or photo gallery was never asked for, much less given.

So, we can see here that not only did Erynn break rules of privacy, she also broke several very serious laws for which she could go to prison. So, yeah, it's not as inconsequential and unimportant as you think to be shrugged off.

Otoh, there is no law out there to criminalize having sex with someone you fancy just because your friend is ambivalent towards them. At worst, the airline could've been pissed off about having sex in the toilet.

While it's still snooping it isnt as bad as you make it out to be.

uh-huh.... Really?

It's also break of trust. On his phone he had private photos of himself and his girlfriend. He had her NUDES. That she went through! Would you like or tolerate your ex THAT REJECTED YOU going through your phone and oggle your current gf's nude photos? And even use that to fuel some self-righteous fury to tear into that girl? If a guy did that I'd break his nose at the very minimum. He would also instantly stop being my friend and I don't think I'd ever want to repair that friendship again.

And Erynn had the audacity and the gall to go through them, look at them and then the self-righteousness to go and verbally and emotionally attack his girlfriend over her relationship with a man Erynn had no claim over.

Erynn basically did the same to MC&Lexi as Ethan did to her, she violated their sexual privacy and their human rights-given right to have a sexual relationship without outside interference or snooping and not have anyone violate it digitally.

She is no better than Ethan. He recorded her having sex, she snooped through her friend's sexual privacy and violated her right to be nude in private with only a person she chose.

To me it doesn't as it wasn't her original intent and probably seemed a bit of a coincidence to her.

Her original intent means nothing when it changed and became "I'm gonna break his trust and snoop through his private photos because I'm CURIOUS and jealous".

When the message arrived she had the choice to ignore it and go through with her original intent.

The ability to control our impulses is what separates us from animals.

Instead, Erynn didn't control her first impulse and not only broke rules of privacy, but broke several international laws and became a criminal.

Since someone named Alexis texted him and her best friend that she talked about how much she liked MC is named Alexis

Look, no matter how you turn it, it was NOT. HER. PHONE. IT'S ILLEGAL. She was not supposed to do that, she was only supposed to call her friend. The only reason why she had it in hand was because her friend whom she was just rebuilding friendship with had lent it to her for only calling her friend, whom MC didn't know was Lexi.

Ask yourself: if MC knew that Erynn would snoop through his private photos like a sickly jealous girlfriend and then went on a rampage because of what she saw there, would he still have lent her his phone? Especially without supervision?

but yeah you are right should of still told him that she looked at his pictures

No, the issue is not about her not telling him, the problem is she did it in the first place. THAT is the issue. She shouldn't have even done it in the first place!

Well Alexis did lie to the MC as she knew who he was the entire time and he even confronts her about this. She did lie to Erynn about not going to the concert with her cause she took the MC instead when they were originally were going to go with one another. While you do make a bit of a point about it would be taking away control from the MC to tell Erynn but it wasn't like he asked Alexis to keep it a secret either

Yes, you're right, she didn't tell MC and she felt really bad (we can see even before it comes out how it torments her, we don't really see Erynn being haunted by her actions and choices) and she answered for it. She should've told him. In terms of the VN, that would terminate her path at the very start, so I guess she was right not to.

I'll beg for forgiveness for running apologism myself right now for just this once: she knew if MC knew who she was he would reject her and that would've broken her heart. It was underhanded to scam him. BUT! This is where I do apologism myself for a change: it's good that she didn't because due to that we got probably the most interesting, complex and feel-good relationship in the entire game out of it. PLUS. It's also a relationship that is already quite apparently LONGTERM and committed and dedicated, thus it's a case of the end justifying the means. By the end of the current patch MC and Lexi have already broached the topic of MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN!!!!!! That is a HUGE milestone and I hope I don't have to explain for anyone reading this just how big it is, especially given they've been together for only 5 weeks. It's like a turning point and a step where their relationship becomes solidified with a definite future agreed upon. It's no longer just mere teenaged dating, it's now an adult fully committed exclusive relationship with expected result of marriage and family.

True, mostly jokingly, but they have still nonetheless talked about it and settled on a rough outline (max 10 years before having kids) - compared to every other path where they're still far from it (in some he doesn't even have sex with the LI yet). It may have started with dishonesty and trickery on Lexi's part, but is bearing amazing fruit and when they end up happy, married and with kids, can we really still hold it against her?

Her trickery lead to longterm happiness for at least 3 people, MORE if you count in their parents being happy for their happiness and getting at least 1 grandchild out of it.
Stopping apologism.


Also, MC's relationship with Lexi is the most adult and mature of all his LIs.
None of the other paths can compare or even come close. Least of all Erynn. Both MC and Lexi treat the other as an adult and they are both being very mature as both partners and as individuals. Looking at Layla, Elena, Erynn, Tori, Gabi, Iris paths, we can't say that about none of them.
To quote Iris: "They sound like an old married couple already."
And not because they fight, but because they're that in-tune, relaxed, have easy and easily-given affection and comfortable with each other.

You're right, she lied to Erynn, no apology for that. She should've told her straight out she's going on a date, period. No need to specify with whom, just that she's going with someone else.

The last part is, while MC didn't ask her to keep a secret, Erynn also didn't ask her to let her know when/if MC ever came back. Maybe I'm biased to that point, but I see Lexi not revealing his status because she was treating him like an adult. And adult who can manage and lead his own life and decide on his own about relationships and whom to contact without outside guidance or input. She's not his mother, he's not 12 or mentally/emotionally incapable, he's a fully functioning 18 year old and she is his lover/hookup.

We need to remind ourselves, at that point MC and Lexi were nothing but hookups. They really had no claim on each other, even more, the nature of the relationship demands privacy and discretion. Only later, after the camp, they became gf&bf and at that point they also became obligated to protect each other and care for each other ABOVE OTHERS. Except maybe parents, depending on situation.

I'd say it was more something like an implied promise since they are best friends that tell each other everything keeping the MC's return a secret does come across as one. Even Alexis feels bad for doing it that right there is enough for me to say at the very least she was being dishonest. Since you dont feel bad about doing something unless you know it was wrong to begin with.

I don't know dude, I've felt bad about killing a spider and yet it wasn't really wrong to begin with... In other words, that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Implied promise is nulled here it's implied, not stated, but mainly because of the state of MC's and Erynn's relationship (rather lack thereof), the way it ended and the nature of his relationship with Alexis and the fact that he's told her on the plane that he has reservations about Erynn and didn't really wanna even think about the reunion.

mc "But back then, I just didn't want to hear from her."
a "That reunion will be... Interesting at the very least."
mc "If it's ever going to happen, to begin with..."
a "You don't want to meet her?"
mc "I do but... I'm just not sure, to be honest. I might run into her at some point though... Besides, who says she wants to meet me?"

This is their conversation on the plane, taken direct from rpy file. As we can see MC made it clear he doesn't want to meet Erynn yet, which also includes Erynn finding out he's here cause that would force a reunion. Alexis telling Erynn would've gone directly against his explicitly expressed wish and desire not to run into Erynn yet, until he knows how to handle it.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

While I don't fully agree with some of your opinions or reasoning here I also see / understand your points you are making. I just wanted to say it was interesting to read as I love how in these games we both can see a certain scene or scenario completely different. Which imo is the beauty in playing AVN's and reading other people's thought on these forums.

Thanks man, I really don't understand how we came here. I only asked your opinion and gave mine, didn't even try to convince anyone. Anyway, how many punch is enough for Ethan? I think around 50 sounds reasonable.

I agree with pretty much every single thing you said. Thank you for putting it in words so succinctly, I've tried to but made a mess of it.

Thanks man, still have no idea how is this escalated to text wall wars though.

These mofos here are writing the next installment of Harry Potter

 

[jllkfsdj]

Thanks man, I really don't understand how we came here. I only asked your opinion and gave mine, didn't even try to convince anyone. Anyway, how many punch is enough for Ethan? I think around 50 sounds reasonable.


Thanks man, still have no idea how is this escalated to text wall wars though.

I'm reading your post above my last and I'm agreeing with/liking pretty much with all that you said. Personally I don't mind text wall wars as long as they stay respectful and are debates with both sides providing arguments and insights, even if they are passionate. They keep the mind sharp, the ability to support your belief with well-state argument or evidence is a very good life skill to have. Flame wars and insults are where I draw the line.

 

[mnotwoke]

View attachment 3052544

Im not sure if this was already asked or not. There are almost 1200 pages at this point. Does anybody know if there is a route now or maybe in the future where you get with Melissa or Emily ?

For both Melissa and Emily, there seems to be no possible routes in the future. The developer is not into incest storylines and likes to troll both game fans and game critics, so any Melissa action and incest with your mother is all a big tease.

For Melissa's current game scenes - It's all in her dreams and imagination.
For Emily's current game scenes - It's all teasing by the developer.

 

[jllkfsdj]

For both Melissa and Emily, there seems to be no possible routes in the future. The developer is not into incest storylines and likes to troll both game fans and game critics, so any Melissa action and incest with your mother is all a big tease.

For Melissa's current game scenes - It's all in her dreams and imagination.
For Emily's current game scenes - It's all teasing by the developer.

Personally, I'm all for no-incest in this story. Sure, Melissa is KINDA hot (if you ignore the tats, the short hair and her preference for women; all three being huge turn-offs for me), but I'm happy that the dev is aiming for a more realistic and mature experience with different flavours (and also an experience that won't get him banned from Patreon). Humping your mom or your adopted-mom would just be too weird here and too much one of those adolescent fratboy fantasies shits.

That's why I also hope nothing will be possible with Adriana, she's either the mother of a girl I rejected or the mother of one of the girls I'm dating (worse yet, mother of a girl I'm in serious relationship with and whom I molested by mistake). She's also married, happily at that. Fuck homewreckers, there should be another circle of hell just for them.

 

[Dessolos]

He offered her the phone to call her friend (who he didn't know was Lexi), NOT to snoop through his private shit. This is a big difference.

An example: if you receive your neighbor's mail in your mailbox, you are allowed to give it to him personally (without looking at sender address) instead of giving it to the mailman to go back to post office and be sorted again and then be handed to the mailman again to arrive to the house or apartment next to yours, but you are NOT allowed to open it and read it! In the US it's a federal crime to do that, meaning you can be prosecuted over state lines.
" What's not so widely understood is just how serious the consequences can be. Intentionally opening, intercepting or hiding someone else's mail is the felony crime of mail theft. It comes with some heavyweight penalties, including fines of up to $250,000 and five years' incarceration in a federal prison. "

In regards to going through someone's phone.

You must be registered to see the links

"Although specific laws vary from country to country, going through someone’s phone without permission is illegal. Wiretapping and privacy laws around the world enforce this through criminal charges. Even though tracking someone through cell phones and going through their messages are easier now, it doesn’t mean you can legally do so. Again, going through them without the owner’s permission is illegal"

Permission to go through either his messages or photo gallery was never asked for, much less given.

So, we can see here that not only did Erynn break rules of privacy, she also broke several very serious laws for which she could go to prison. So, yeah, it's not as inconsequential and unimportant as you think to be shrugged off.

Otoh, there is no law out there to criminalize having sex with someone you fancy just because your friend is ambivalent towards them.



uh-huh.... Really?

It's also break of trust. On his phone he had private photos of himself and his girlfriend. He had her NUDES. That she went through! Would you like or tolerate your ex THAT REJECTED YOU going through your phone and oggle your current gf's nude photos? And even use that to fuel some self-righteous fury to tear into that girl? If a guy did that I'd break his nose at the very minimum. He would also instantly stop being my friend and I don't think I'd ever want to repair that friendship again.

And Erynn had the audacity and the gall to go through them, look at them and then the self-righteousness to go and verbally and emotionally attack his girlfriend over her relationship with a man Erynn had no claim over.

Erynn basically did the same to MC&Lexi as Ethan did to her, she violated their sexual privacy and their human rights-given right to have a sexual relationship without outside interference or snooping and not have anyone violate it digitally.

She is no better than Ethan. He recorded her having sex, she snooped through her friend's sexual privacy and violated her right to be nude in private with only a person she chose.



Her original intent means nothing when it changed and became "I'm gonna break his trust and snoop through his private photos because I'm CURIOUS and jealous".



Look, no matter how you turn it, it was NOT. HER. PHONE. IT'S ILLEGAL. She was not supposed to do that, she was only supposed to call her friend. The only reason why she had it in hand was because her friend whom she was just rebuilding friendship with had lent it to her for only calling her friend, whom MC didn't know was Lexi.

Ask yourself: if MC knew that Erynn would snoop through his private photos like a sickly jealous girlfriend and then went on a rampage because of what she saw there, would he still have lent her his phone? Especially without supervision?



No, the issue is not about her not telling him, the problem is she did it in the first place. THAT is the issue. She shouldn't have even done it in the first place!



Yes, you're right, she didn't tell MC and she felt really bad (we can see even before it comes out how it torments her, we don't really see Erynn being haunted by her actions and choices) and she answered for it. She should've told him. In terms of the VN, that would terminate her path at the very start, so I guess she was right not to.

I'll beg for forgiveness for running apologism myself right now for just this once: she knew if MC knew who she was he would reject her and that would've broken her heart. It was underhanded to scam him. BUT! This is where I do apologism myself for a change: it's good that she didn't because due to that we got probably the most interesting, complex and feel-good relationship in the entire game out of it. PLUS. It's also a relationship that is already quite apparently LONGTERM and committed and dedicated, thus it's a good longterm investment and will have fruits. By the end of the current patch MC and Lexi have already discussed MARRIAGE AND CHILDREN. True, mostly jokingly, but they have still nonetheless talked about it and settled on a rough outline (max 10 years before having kids) - compared to every other path where they're still far from it (in some he doesn't even have sex with the LI yet). It may have started with dishonesty and trickery on Lexi's part, but is bearing amazing fruit and when they end up happy, married and with kids, can we really still hold it against her?

Her trickery lead to longterm happiness for at least 3 people, MORE if you count in their parents being happy for their happiness and getting at least 1 grandchild out of it.
Stopping apologism.


Also, MC's relationship with Lexi is the most adult and mature of all his LIs.
None of the other paths can compare or even come close. Least of all Erynn. Both MC and Lexi treat the other as an adult and they are both being very mature as both partners and as individuals. Looking at Layla, Elena, Erynn, Tori, Gabi, Iris paths, we can't say that about none of them.
To quote Iris: "They sound like an old married couple already."
And not because they fight, but because they're that in-tune, relaxed, have easy and easily-given affection and comfortable with each other.

You're right, she lied to Erynn, no apology for that. She should've told her straight out she's going on a date, period. No need to specify with whom, just that she's going with someone else.

The last part is, while MC didn't ask her to keep a secret, Erynn also didn't ask her to let her know when/if MC ever came back. Maybe I'm biased to that point, but I see Lexi not revealing his status because she was treating him like an adult. And adult who can manage and lead his own life and decide on his own about relationships and whom to contact without outside guidance or input. She's not his mother, he's not 12 or mentally/emotionally incapable, he's a fully functioning 18 year old and she is his lover/hookup.

We need to remind ourselves, at that point MC and Lexi were nothing but hookups. They really had no claim on each other, even more, the nature of the relationship demands privacy and discretion. Only later, after the camp, they became gf&bf and at that point they also became obligated to protect each other and care for each other ABOVE OTHERS. Except maybe parents, depending on situation.



I don't know dude, I've felt bad about killing a spider and yet it wasn't really wrong to begin with... In other words, that argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Implied promise is nulled here it's implied, not stated, but mainly because of the state of MC's and Erynn's relationship (rather lack thereof), the way it ended and the nature of his relationship with Alexis and the fact that he's told her on the plane that he has reservations about Erynn and didn't really wanna even think about the reunion.

mc "But back then, I just didn't want to hear from her."
a "That reunion will be... Interesting at the very least."
mc "If it's ever going to happen, to begin with..."
a "You don't want to meet her?"
mc "I do but... I'm just not sure, to be honest. I might run into her at some point though... Besides, who says she wants to meet me?"

This is their conversation on the plane, taken direct from rpy file. As we can see MC made it clear he doesn't want to meet Erynn yet, which also includes Erynn finding out he's here cause that would force a reunion. Alexis telling Erynn would've gone directly against his explicitly expressed wish and desire not to run into Erynn yet, until he knows how to handle it.

Sure what you said about the privacy stuff is true. But about the whole phone / privacy thing. I still don't think it's as bad as you made it seem because she didn't steal the phone but that's just my opinion. like I said in my original post I think it's more a matter of our personal pov and believes because with context it isn't black and white that she did something bad / horrible. Because she is only human seeing such a coincidence unfold right in front of her eyes it would be hard not to go against your better judgement and let curiosity win. I would say that would be hard for alot of people not just a fictional character. Not saying that would be a excuse to the law but i'm not trying to bring the law in this argument as to me this more about her character not if she broke the law.

But im a very forgiving person probably too nice of a person and im a non non confrontational person as well. So even if it broke trust for me personally id let it slide if I liked the girl enough. Which is why I think this isnt black and white of her doing something bad / horrible even if the law says so. Because to you she broke trust but I don't see it that way because of the context , the coincidence , and her personal feelings that happened when she was handed the phone. As it didn't feel like she was being jealous more shocked surprised. Again context and our personal pov and believes matter on this particular opinion. If I put myself into the MC's shoes with the knowledge of this situation id agree but I never put myself into the MC's shoe when I play games.

Is still stand by my thoughts of it being an implied promise she broke. Because when you are best friends with someone for 15 years i think certain things would be normal to go by without saying especially when it comes to feeling. Even if it goes against something the MC said on the plane as she hasn't known him nearly as long. Which is why both of them saw it as a lie or something they did wrong even if it wasn't a lie. Yeah would of been much better to have some communication instead of something implied but I think Erynn never knew she liked him alot either which is why she was hurt by it.

I do appreciated your thoughts on the subject even if I don't agree fully. Hope you can see where im coming from on my opinion. As im not trying to change yours but just honestly enjoy having discussions.

Thanks man, I really don't understand how we came here. I only asked your opinion and gave mine, didn't even try to convince anyone. Anyway, how many punch is enough for Ethan? I think around 50 sounds reasonable.

I say 100 but lose count around 50 -60 haha

 

[Maviarab]

Regardless of anything else, been a fascinating conversation guys, wallls of text or not

 

[mnotwoke]

 

[LSC82]

Yeah guilty as charged. I tend to do that when I get bored, sorry.


So you are claiming Erynn was so stupid she thought she could keep both bully who refuse to stop and bullied one as a friend, you also are intentionally stuck the situation in a single point. She said if you keep bullying him, we are no longer gonna be friends and he responded it with he won't stop bullying him, this interaction alone should be the end of Ethan Erynn friendship, it was not. She should have noticed when MC was avoiding her, keeping Ethan as a friend is costing her to her friendship with MC, if she was not a moron. So either she is a moron or she chose Ethan over MC. After MC left, which was clear indication that their friendship was lost, she kept Ethan close did not even think to punish him for causing she lost a dear friend. She even did to opposite becoming closer to Ethan and believed his good guy façade. He did the same with all of her friends as he did with MC, she still kept him as a friend. This is not being naive trusting person, this is being idiot or selfish. She did notice Ethan was bad when he became bad to her, it was okay as long as he was bullying others when the table turns, she was okay to ask the help of the person who got bullied.
Now we call this 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' just because she did not sleep with Ethan, does not mean she was not prioritizing him over MC, completely irrelevant.

I repeatedly said she was dumb and naive, was that not enough for you....
I adamantly deny that she was ill intentioned, or prioritizing Ethan, the game never stops showing how much she cares about the MC both back then and now.
She was naive in thinking this guy could change his ways and become a nicer guy(and she did believe that he changed for awhile).

She fought and argued with him to defend the MC, how is that prioritizing him over the MC?
Again and listen this time, she was dumb and innocent to think she could make Ethan a nicer guy and keep him as friend, but that's the story, i don't see any malice from her, your thing is bred from your prejudice and distaste for the character(you already admitted as much) and not what happens in the story.

And then the MC removed himself from the table and made things easy for Ethan, until Erynn found a different guy(Zane), then Ethan had to go to his tricks.

I don't understand how we look at the same thing and see so much different. Was there misunderstanding and bad timing involved, obviously but there was also series of bad choice from Erynn too. She was aware Ethan was bullying MC, do you deny this? She was also aware Ethan has all the intention to keep bullying MC, do you deny this? She still was friend with him, a close one too bike ridings etc., do you deny this? None of these is related to any misunderstanding or bad timing.
Also are you aware MC got beating from Ethan because he helped Erynn and only saved by Val? You keep repeating it was in the past but it is not. Erynn being close to Ethan is always dangerous to MC, it caused bullying, psychical confrontation, emotional damage etc. in the past and he just reconnected with Erynn and it cost him getting beat up from Ethan. Also one should be imbecile to not understand that Erynn situation brewing more danger to MC and people around him.

I said before if your point was that she brings a lot of baggage and you don't want to deal with it, fine, i won't argue that.
I just don't see malice or ill intent on her side, nor do i think she's lying, no reason to believe that.
I don't know if that makes it better in your eyes or not... but she doesn't seem aware of the extent of his bullying, the only thing she sees is a bit of mockery, not physical stuff.

It is not factually contradict in game, where do you get that? Only thing that support it Erynn's claims and they are not factual, they as subjective as subjectivity goes. Like I said, like already has been said, we see that event from other people's eyes that does not necessarily mean they are true. We are lacking a trustable source of the event but you are appealing to ignorance, this is a logical fallacy. Do you want to trust Erynn? be my guest. I don't trust her and that's it.

Funny because it is factual, it's not just Erynn's recollection, it's a combination of Erynn and MC, there are scenes in there that Erynn wasn't present and was completely unaware.
It is a fact that she argued with Ethan to defend the MC, shortly after they argue Ethan is leaving in an angry manner... Sorry to jump to the logical conclusion, he's leaving(angrily) because he had a bad argument and the girl he's gunning for sided with a little kid over him(way to prioritize ).
If you wanna believe she was lying about that and just having fun with him, well what can i say....

Maybe i should've said no matter how many facts are thrown at you, you don't change your mind.

If you won't change your mind, no matter what, you barely read the things i say (like calling her dumb and naive repeatedly), or just don't pay attention, and you have no arguments beyond "i don't believe her", are we done here? Or do you still feel like saying the last word...

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

....

Is not Layla too cute? I really like her and act mature if MC choose Alexis over her. Do you think we will have a chance to get Elena path without breaking Layla's heart?

View attachment 3052831

What the.... are there people who against the MILFs? Outrageous.

I say 100 but lose count around 50 -60 haha

So you think we should make a pulp from him. I agree.

 

[Bombmaster]

Is not Layla too cute? I really like her and act mature if MC choose Alexis over her. Do you think we will have a chance to get Elena path without breaking Layla's heart?

Layla has no drama, so Nyx booby trapped Elena to her.

And yes she is the Princess of this story

 

[Regularus]

The real problem is that she was friends with Ethan at all after knowing that he was bullying a kid. During her flashback of past events, Erynn specifically asks "Why do you always bully him?", which clearly shows that she knows Ethan has been consistently bullying him in the past, and yet she is still hanging out with Ethan daily.

That's exactly the reason i didn't like Erynn.

I could have understood that she wasn't that much of a close friend to the MC, simply because Erynn and the Mc had too much age difference at the time : teens do not hang out with kids but always look to hang out with other teens after all.

Sure teens are stupid as it's part of the growing up process to make mistakes and etc... and learn to not do them again but even as a teen you can choose your friend and who to hang out with.
Erynn perfectly knew the kind of people Ethan was as shown in the dialogue, and she still decided to hang out with him despite everything, it was her decision, and her excuses years later when she explained herself to the MC felt completely flat to me in regards to that .

Now if Erynn didn't had noticed that Ethan had been bullying thekid MC many times , it would have been very different to me in term of appreciating the character or not.
But regardless of what i think of the character, i'm always getting the MC to help her in my playthroughs because it's still so satisfying to get the MC to be able to punch Ethan in the face as much as you want after he rescue Erynn

 

[jllkfsdj]

I still don't think it's as bad as you made it seem because she didn't steal the phone but that's just my opinion.

Well, the law is quite clear about this. She doesn't have to steal the phone, the wording is quite clear that "reading messages without permission is illegal". And that's the only thing cops and judges care about.

Especially with how she reacted and what she DID after doing that.

But im a very forgiving person probably too nice of a person and im a non non confrontational person as well.

Yeah, I get that. But my life experience have forced me to learn the difference between being non-confrontational and letting others walk all over me. I won't go out looking for trouble, but I won't back down if it finds me. Being non-confrontational doesn't mean I have to allow others to do what I dislike or take issue with.

And privacy is extremely important for me, my own privacy and that of my partner who trusts me and relies on me to protect her emotionally and mentally as well and to protect her privacy. When you give someone your nude photo it goes without saying it's not for sharing with others unless expressly permitted. MC fucked up by giving up his phone on which he had something as private as nudes, but Erynn shouldn't have abused having something as private as someone's phone in her hands.

With all the shit that people have on their phones these days, passwords, family photos, correspondence, business and personal messages, nudes, bank cards/payment setups, personal information, BIOMETRIC information, etc. the issue of respecting their privacy and not going through their phone is even more important than it ever was.

Because to you she broke trust but I don't see it that way because of the context , the coincidence , and her personal feelings that happened when she was handed the phone. As it didn't feel like she was being jealous more shocked surprised.

Then why react with such fury and rage if she was only surprised? That kind of reaction is out of proportion. To me she reacted like a jealous/cheated girlfriend would and she really has no right to feel or behave like that and I'm not talking about the past, but simply because of the present when she is barely friends with MC.

Also, isn't the person affected (MC) the only one whose opinion of the action actually matters here? You put Erynn's personal feelings out as the more important ones, but she isn't the victim here. Victims are Lexi and MC.

 

[Bombmaster]

That's exactly the reason i didn't like Erynn.

I could have understood that she wasn't that much of a close friend to the MC, simply because Erynn and the Mc had too much age difference at the time : teens do not hang out with kids but always look to hang out with other teens after all.

Sure teens are stupid as it's part of the growing up process to make mistakes and etc... and learn to not do them again but even as a teen you can choose your friend and who to hang out with.
Erynn perfectly knew the kind of people Ethan was as shown in the dialogue, and she still decided to hang out with him despite everything, it was her decision, and her excuses years later when she explained herself to the MC felt completely flat to me in regards to that .

Still so much satisfying to get the MC to be able to punch Ethan in the face as much as you want after he rescue Erynn

I would pursue Erynn easy if her drama ended there and rolled into Lexi X Erynn situation.
Sure the mistakes of the past can be mended, But you get home with a cockblock dibbs girl that kept making dumb choices.

this is a game,the only reason someone would even think about dating Erynn.