VN Ren'Py Intertwined [v0.12.3] [Nyx]

[Nurikabe]

I'd rather have a friend that's smart and respectful than a loyal moron. And btw, to be a good wingman you need to actually have some brain cells. The only time he actually did something is that club moment with Elena&Layla. Zach's thoughts "let's see how much Elena likes you MC.". And Elena was so drunk that she didn't remember anything at all next morning. That doesn't count as a wingman in my book. In all honesty though, I think that was Zach's smartest moment in the whole series. So it sums up everything else about him. The other girl needs to be drunk as hell for him to stand a chance for a conversation lol.
So as I said earlier, having loyal friends is nice but it doesn't mean you can be friends with everyone. A guy like Zach, well I could stand him being stupid if it was only that. I would say you know what he is really dumb but he is a good guy and it makes him kinda funny. The way he acts and talks about girls is a no from me. Even if he was the smartest guy I wouldn't keep him as a friend. It's really disrespectful and if I was a girl I would feel really uncomfortable with that guy throwing himself to me, especially knowing that he does it to every girl. Best example is Valerie. New girl and honestly he was taking advantage of the fact that she didn't know other people at all. How many times we saw her looking so uncomfortable in just episode 8? that was just ep. 8 ffs. I don't mind him existing, just saying.

The messed up thing about opinions on this forum is that if Zach was suave, smart, cool with the ladies, good looking, and funny, he would be direct competition for the MC. And people here would shit about that!

At least the girls aren't falling for him... Right? I get it, though. He is too much of a tool for you to consider your best friend.

 

[MrD812]

The messed up thing about opinions on this forum is that if Zach was suave, smart, cool with the ladies, good looking, and funny, he would be direct competition for the MC. And people here would shit about that!

At least the girls aren't falling for him... Right? I get it, though. He is too much of a tool for you to consider your best friend.

Mean no offence, allow me to ask.
Do You really think observation of Zach's demeanor is opinion?
Curious to know.

 

[Topper69]

Just for giggles, try a run with him 'Not' getting laid at all.

Did that on first run, 'Eryn only' path.
Got close with her but didn't finish, then another time in his bedroom.

Emily kinda/sorta blocked that from happning.

p.s.: Iris and him, we had no control over.

Uhm, talk about blue balls.
But I know what you mean, did this as well ...

 

[D9074]

Zach is that absolute best friend that will always have your back. He will do whatever it takes to make sure you get yours. Typically, to the detriment of his own interests. If you've never had or been this kind of friend, it makes sense why you dislike the character. But for those of us that have been fortunate to have a "Zach" on our side, he is the perfect wingman/sidekick/accomplice.

ive had mates that i feel have my back and will do all of that but they wasnt perverted and harassing every woman they come across. they dont need that part in their personality to be a good friend that will do anything.

 

[CursedGodz]

The messed up thing about opinions on this forum is that if Zach was suave, smart, cool with the ladies, good looking, and funny, he would be direct competition for the MC. And people here would shit about that!

At least the girls aren't falling for him... Right? I get it, though. He is too much of a tool for you to consider your best friend.

I get 100% what you mean with that. As I mentioned I don't mind him existing at all because it's realistic. I was just stating my opinion on your take of him being the perfect buddy/wingman etc. No matter who or your friends are, they will have your back and help you with stuff. Otherwise you don't have friends. That's why MC and Zach, they are not what you call friends. At least that's what I've learnt because of having to mature really sooner than normal in some ways. MC can't stand this guy. But he doesn't want to be mean and tell him with a straight face something like the following; "man I get it we spent quite some time back in the day but that's when I was 12-13. Since then, the only part of you that saw development was your sex hormones." It sounds mean but it's the truth. And the best thing anyone can offer to himself and other people, is pure honesty. Even in Zach's case, maybe an honest and "mean" talk would be a wake-up call.

People you call friends are usually those you have the chance to spend more time with. Like the jocks in high school and college, the nerds, the hot girls , you get the point. It doesn't mean you end up keeping those people as actual friends because sooner or later you uncover their personality and IQ and decide if that's someone you would like to be friends with. I only have 1 friend and not because I'm introverted or something, just really selective. Long story short, friendship is just another relationship. Like intimate relationships, you might really like them at first and when you finally get deeper maybe some really negative traits get uncovered. That's the point where one decides if that person will be in their life.

Zach surely serves a purpose in the dev's story, but calling what MC-Zach have a friendship is exaggerated and even delusional. When we are kids we all have someone with spend the majority of our time but as we grow and mature we can finally judge situations in a different way. Zach's mind looks like it stopped developing after the age of 12 (that's kind in his case ) and combing that with his sexual thirst makes him unbearable to cope with. Fingers crossed that Zach redeems himself in some way.

To sum up, I respect your opinion and I'm not arguing with you or trying to force my opinion. Just a healthy exchange. Thanks for sharing your POV.

 

[Topper69]

The problem with Zach is probably that the developer is a woman, it's like a bit of reverse psychology. Just as men as developers sometimes portray women's behavior as slightly odd, here it's the other way round. As Zach has been portrayed so far, he is not buddy material.
If you want to see a good buddy, watch Acting Lessons. The MC can even get him a woman there, you couldn't do that to a girl with Zach in Intertwined.

 

[nyrek]

Zach is that absolute best friend that will always have your back. He will do whatever it takes to make sure you get yours. Typically, to the detriment of his own interests. If you've never had or been this kind of friend, it makes sense why you dislike the character. But for those of us that have been fortunate to have a "Zach" on our side, he is the perfect wingman/sidekick/accomplice.

lol no
I've played at least 2 AVNs where your best buddy outclasses zach in every way.
for instance, leap of faith chris (was it chris? the moustache guy) - a grown up guy you can always count on, who doesn't act like a retard.
BUT, HEY, THAT DOESN'T COUNT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A YOUNGER, IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON TRYING TO GET LAID
ok, [game that devs don't want to be named in their topics]'s derek. a total moron. zach can't be even put into the same sentence with dumb shit derek does. but derek has your back in every situation. a real bro

zach is just an annoyance you need to bear with because you don't have any other choice. a comic relief. a stupid comic relief at that.

 

[alri]

I think Zach can still be redeemed as a three-dimensional character, he just needs to have a moment of truth and pull through in a big way for the MC or one of the girls at some point in the story.

If you want to see a good buddy, watch Acting Lessons. The MC can even get him a woman there, you couldn't do that to a girl with Zach in Intertwined.

Liam is the biggest bro to ever bro, no doubt about that.

 

[Warscared]

lol no
I've played at least 2 AVNs where your best buddy outclasses zach in every way.
for instance, leap of faith chris (was it chris? the moustache guy) - a grown up guy you can always count on, who doesn't act like a retard.
BUT, HEY, THAT DOESN'T COUNT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A YOUNGER, IRRESPONSIBLE PERSON TRYING TO GET LAID
ok, [game that devs don't want to be named in their topics]'s derek. a total moron. zach can't be even put into the same sentence with dumb shit derek does. but derek has your back in every situation. a real bro

zach is just an annoyance you need to bear with because you don't have any other choice. a comic relief. a stupid comic relief at that.

except nyx got Nathan right! Nathan is Zach in riverside the town were you lived with Andres! So Zach is just immature who lives a sheltered life and somehow that passes on to his lack of social skills!

Not to mention that Nathan stood by you by driving out getting into fights wingmaning you with Cara having a few drinks!

While Zach plays computer games, his experience with girls is with webcam whores (meaning he is a paypiggy probably with his parents credit cards!) and he knows Erynn from the interwebs even tough she lives in the same city as him, which during the winter does not have many people except for the college!

which Erynn attends with her best friend Alexxis sister to Layla who is one of Zach´s friends and goals!

All of that shows a shallow immaturity that i suppose every 12-14 year old go trough! he is now acquiring a car, perhaps that will help him grow up a bit!

But at the end of the day Zach is the life everyone should have, loved by his parents without wanting for nothing (between his games credit card to pay for camwhores clothes and being well fed), he works out everyone saw his bod at the swimming pool and is part of a team meaning he is not a complete braind dead social shut in!

all Zach needs is experience and a guiding hand!

If Nyx made it with Nathan why can she not make it with Zach? because Zach is there to serve a purpose at how the MC should not behave but even Zach will grow out of it!

yeah, she did. nathan is a good bro. zach sucks tho
wasn't getting into the discussion can or can't nyx write a proper male bff, it's obvious she can. just had to react when I saw someone saying zach is a good bro. I wouldn't wanna have an idiot like zach near me irl

except you can train him to be a true bro!
as stated he only needs a guiding hand!
perhaps helping him get a girlfriend but then you need a girlfriend for him that is in love with your MC or getting him a girlfriend will only mean that that weak ass idiot would become her servant instead of your bodyguard and personal chauffeur!

 

[nyrek]

except nyx got Nathan right!

yeah, she did. nathan is a good bro. zach sucks tho
wasn't getting into the discussion can or can't nyx write a proper male bff, it's obvious she can. just had to react when I saw someone saying zach is a good bro. I wouldn't wanna have an idiot like zach near me irl

 

[CrioniC.Syn]

If Nyx made it with Nathan why can she not make it with Zach? because Zach is there to serve a purpose at how the MC should not behave but even Zach will grow out of it!

That's exactly what I think also. Nathan is your buddy. Zach is the guy you knew when you were little, not a friend per se.

 

[CursedGodz]

all Zach needs is experience and a guiding hand!

If Nyx made it with Nathan why can she not make it with Zach? because Zach is there to serve a purpose at how the MC should not behave but even Zach will grow out of it!

except you can train him to be a true bro!
as stated he only needs a guiding hand!
perhaps helping him get a girlfriend but then you need a girlfriend for him that is in love with your MC or getting him a girlfriend will only mean that that weak ass idiot would become her servant instead of your bodyguard and personal chauffeur!

Zach is a bro. Being a bro isn't enough to be friends with someone though. I need a friend to do stuff together, have fun, all type of crazy things but just like I mentioned, friendship is like an intimate relationship. If you are in a relationship just for the fun parts then it's not real and won't last. As a friend you need mature stuff too. And when you are having a discussion, you can't always listen to 12-year-old stuff. That's what Zach is. It's not just a side of him, it's all of Zach. So then, that means he is just stupid. You can't train that. You can give knowledge to someone, experience, training, but you can't make someone smarter. If you send him to a library for a whole year, he will get tons of knowledge. It doesn't mean he will become smarter. Knowledge is just like a tool for smart people. Dumbass Zach can get all the knowledge in the world still it won't matter to him as long as females exist. MC hasn't tried at all and he fucked plenty already and so many girls like him. Zach is an obsessed virgin trying as hard as possible with every girl out there and it's all he talks about. How do you train that lmao

 

[Blueray]

Hows it Going on the new Update of the game ?

 

[Keerthi Thorpe]

yeah, she did. nathan is a good bro. zach sucks tho
wasn't getting into the discussion can or can't nyx write a proper male bff, it's obvious she can. just had to react when I saw someone saying zach is a good bro. I wouldn't wanna have an idiot like zach near me irl

It is about time to realize that Zach is not a living person, but a character in a novel. Nyx put him there for a reason. She knows exactly what the ideal wingman (Nathan) is, so if Zach is different, there's a reason:
She needs to justify why all the girls unrealistically fall for the MC, hence the need for Zach as a stark contrast.
Also, this way Nyx can outsource the unavoidable stupidities: saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, carrying out childish nonsense.

Put it this way, "Life is too short to make all the mistakes yourself."

So for me, Zach is a hard to tolerate but useful character in the story.

 

[Bucketbot89]

It is about time to realize that Zach is not a living person, but a character in a novel. Nyx put him there for a reason. She knows exactly what the ideal wingman (Nathan) is, so if Zach is different, there's a reason:
She needs to justify why all the girls unrealistically fall for the MC, hence the need for Zach as a stark contrast.
Also, this way Nyx can outsource the unavoidable stupidities: saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, carrying out childish nonsense.

Put it this way, "Life is too short to make all the mistakes yourself."

So for me, Zach is a hard to tolerate but useful character in the story.

So instead of making it so the girls fall for the MC in realistic manner, the dev added a character whose sole purpose is to make the MC look better by comparison? I'm sorry but that is just terrible writing. I'm not saying that is what is happened here, but if it was intended this way, then that is beyond stupid.

 

[CursedGodz]

It is about time to realize that Zach is not a living person, but a character in a novel. Nyx put him there for a reason. She knows exactly what the ideal wingman (Nathan) is, so if Zach is different, there's a reason:
She needs to justify why all the girls unrealistically fall for the MC, hence the need for Zach as a stark contrast.
Also, this way Nyx can outsource the unavoidable stupidities: saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, carrying out childish nonsense.

Put it this way, "Life is too short to make all the mistakes yourself."

So for me, Zach is a hard to tolerate but useful character in the story.

That take works with other games, in this one we have realistic stuff happening. All these girls aren't crazy in love with MC. He is a guy with an amazing physique, nice face, he treats each of those girls in a good way, not to mention the fact that all the girls are aged 17-20 so they are in that time in their lives when they just fool around, discover themselves etc. The better you treat the girls in this story the more intimacy you develop with them (Rachel excluded). There are plenty guys who have multiple girls wanting them and they are not even that good (some have just good physique and girls are crushing real hard on them. Even if they are absolute jerks). As I stated not all girls are in love with him. Some really like him, others have a crush on him and the next tier is girls who started developing deeper feelings for him. Those who have already shown glimpses of deep feelings for him are just 2 girls in the end of episode 8. That's it.
So I don't see how anything is unrealistic about girls and MC at all. They don't just fall for him. You spend 8 episodes for something more than some playful kisses with Layla and that's only if you really pursue her. I've played plenty games and that's one of the about 5 more or less games that I've actually liked because of the realism. If a guy is really hot, every girl likes him. That's it though, just like them. And every guy likes a really hot girl. When they get to spend time with those hot people, in case they are nice human beings with manners then it's natural to like them even more am I wrong? What's not to like about a really hot teenager with manners, who helps people without expecting something in return? (Layla Park, Elena Cheer practice, Layla Spanish lessons, just a few of the examples). When you see a combo like that you start to think that the guy might be dumb because otherwise it would be too good to be true. But nah he doesn't lack brain cells and he is even good at school (hot athlete with a possible scholarship and he is good with advanced mathematics ffs).
So yeah, Zach is just a character not a human being (there are plenty Zachs out there in real life, we are just sharing thoughts). Does he have a purpose in the game? Sure he does and we'll find more later. But definitely not the one you mentioned.

 

[Keerthi Thorpe]

So instead of making it so the girls fall for the MC in realistic manner, the dev added a character whose sole purpose is to make the MC look better by comparison? I'm sorry but that is just terrible writing. I'm not saying that is what is happened here, but if it was intended this way, then that is beyond stupid.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one.
On the one hand, this AVN is far more realistic than usual. But here, too, in the first two weeks alone, the MC has sex 7 times with 4 different women in Madison Springs, if I'm counting correctly.
And that requires the other male heroes in town to be obnoxious: Zach, Ethan, Darryl, Lucas.
And it's not necessarily the writer's fault. If the other guys were more attractive, the MC would have to seduce women in relationships back and forth, and then this forum would be full of outraged comments about ugly 3 letter abbreviations.

 

[Keerthi Thorpe]

That take works with other games, in this one we have realistic stuff happening. All these girls aren't crazy in love with MC. He is a guy with an amazing physique, nice face, he treats each of those girls in a good way, not to mention the fact that all the girls are aged 17-20 so they are in that time in their lives when they just fool around, discover themselves etc. The better you treat the girls in this story the more intimacy you develop with them (Rachel excluded). There are plenty guys who have multiple girls wanting them and they are not even that good (some have just good physique and girls are crushing real hard on them. Even if they are absolute jerks). As I stated not all girls are in love with him. Some really like him, others have a crush on him and the next tier is girls who started developing deeper feelings for him. Those who have already shown glimpses of deep feelings for him are just 2 girls in the end of episode 8. That's it.
So I don't see how anything is unrealistic about girls and MC at all. They don't just fall for him. You spend 8 episodes for something more than some playful kisses with Layla and that's only if you really pursue her. I've played plenty games and that's one of the about 5 more or less games that I've actually liked because of the realism. If a guy is really hot, every girl likes him. That's it though, just like them. And every guy likes a really hot girl. When they get to spend time with those hot people, in case they are nice human beings with manners then it's natural to like them even more am I wrong? What's not to like about a really hot teenager with manners, who helps people without expecting something in return? (Layla Park, Elena Cheer practice, Layla Spanish lessons, just a few of the examples). When you see a combo like that you start to think that the guy might be dumb because otherwise it would be too good to be true. But nah he doesn't lack brain cells and he is even good at school (hot athlete with a possible scholarship and he is good with advanced mathematics ffs).
So yeah, Zach is just a character not a human being (there are plenty Zachs out there in real life, we are just sharing thoughts). Does he have a purpose in the game? Sure he does and we'll find more later. But definitely not the one you mentioned.

I like your arguments and agree with most of them.
But even so, MC seems too good to be true.

 

[CursedGodz]

I like your arguments and agree with most of them.
But even so, MC seems too good to be true.

Well, the certain MC is too good to be true that's right. But many girls or guys liking a certain person a lot is still realistic. And I believe the creator did an amazing job for MC's plot to look to good to be true but still keep it real. Perfect example is Cara/Nikki choice. If you are nice to them, they admit to each other they have some feelings for you and let you choose. That's a crucial move by Nyx there. In any other game you would just fuck with both sisters and even the mother when the wedding is canceled. The 2 sisters would probably even convince Haley to fuck MC because "he is so supportive mom, you will feel better" . So yeah, I believe Nyx did a really good job on keep that really thin line alive in many situations. I'm glad the dev was a woman lol

 

[D9074]

The problem with Zach is probably that the developer is a woman, it's like a bit of reverse psychology. Just as men as developers sometimes portray women's behavior as slightly odd, here it's the other way round. As Zach has been portrayed so far, he is not buddy material.
If you want to see a good buddy, watch Acting Lessons. The MC can even get him a woman there, you couldn't do that to a girl with Zach in Intertwined.

ehh i disagree, i think she is just showing what some people are like. she has written the MC way different so its not like she doesnt understand.

zach is a playa that cant get pussy, we all know that playa type and also the person who tries and cant get any. ive seen male devs write mcs who are kinda like zach but they get pussy and its what makes the games so unrealistic and just laughable.
If anything she opened my eyes up to what some are like and how fucking cringy it is so she did a good job imo.

zach is literally just there to make the mc look better and to show he has a male friend that you dont need to worry about if you fear NTR type of things. ima still slap the fuck outta him if he creeps on erynn tho