VN Ren'Py Intertwined [v0.14.1] [Nyx]

[glaslow]

Didn't we establish that Zach is an idiot? Ethan told him he wanted to speak with MC some more, so that's what he likely thought was going to happen. Ethan has played a good guy in front of Zach, not someone who goes around beating people up.

I think you are correct about Zach having no idea about the setup cause he is a moron and ethan just used him. It is partly his moron behavior that caused the MC to treat him the way he does in the end. He is insufferable around women and treats them like objects openly and wonders why he can't get laid. He is a good character for what he is supposed to be. An example of what not to do to pull women. Dudes that treat women like objects are not all morons for example Ethan. They just hide their objectives better and have more game.
Ethan is a way better at manipulating women and treating them as objects, cause he is good at hiding his objectives, lying, and abusing his power dynamic. Ethan is just stupid about the Erynn thing cause he keeps trying the run the same failed game on her. Zach has no power dynamic. Zach has no Game and doesn't know how to talk to a girl and listen to them on a basic level. He is annoying and betrayed you at the first opportunity for not helping him get women that were basically impossible to obtain due to his own behavior.
That makes him the perfect friend for Ethan. Ethan is just a better, smarter, and smoother version of what Zach is at a base level. He is a scumbag and a surface level friend. He latched onto you as the new guy to try and use the relationship for his own gain. He always acts like you owe him something. He wants a job at your moms new cafe. He wants you to hook him up with layla. Then he moves on to Valeria. Then he sees Erynn and wants you to hook him up with her too. That's why everyone else at school awkwardly shrugs him off and thinks he is a loser. I'm not sure why you think he has good intentions at all with anything he does. He never did anything nice for the MC. He is the kind of friend I'd never invite on a night out with a girl I want to get with because he would fuck it up for me and himself.
(I apologize for the sermon. I hate this fucking Zach guy.)

 

[ffive]

I'm not sure why you think he has good intentions at all with anything he does. He never did anything nice for the MC. He is the kind of friend I'd never invite on a night out with a girl I want to get with because he would fuck it up for me and himself.

I think it's more accurate to say i don't see Zach as someone who has bad intentions. He's just a normal high school teenager with normal high school teenager interests (that means mostly girls and trying to get laid) who is pretty dense about interacting with girls. He is not malicious, and seems to try bonding with MC and his classmates as well as he can (which isn't very good but hey, skill issue)

Ironically, on the one outing where MC, Zach, Layla and Elena go together, it's not Zach who ends up an embarrassment that ruins anyone's chances, but it's Elena who gets shit-faced drunk and the MC who ends up making a scene and potentially bailing out on his friends. But yeah, we know MC's shit doesn't stink and he can do no wrong.

 

[NewGuy2022]

zach just needs to get dogwalked outside the school. He snuck MC twice so far. MC needs to wait for his ass and beat the shit out of him every time he sees him.

Im starting to see why MC ran away after he thought that erryn turned him down. He thought that he was gonna get stuck with Zach permanently.

 

[Dessolos]

I miss when we used to talk about how we want to fuck Emily and Dylan

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Since theres so many zach lovers in this thread at the moment I'll present a pic to get you all hot and bothered

 

[glaslow]

I think it's more accurate to say i don't see Zach as someone who has bad intentions. He's just a normal high school teenager with normal high school teenager interests (that means mostly girls and trying to get laid) who is pretty dense about interacting with girls. He is not malicious, and seems to try bonding with MC and his classmates as well as he can (which isn't very good but hey, skill issue)

Ironically, on the one outing where MC, Zach, Layla and Elena go together, it's not Zach who ends up an embarrassment that ruins anyone's chances, but it's Elena who gets shit-faced drunk and the MC who ends up making a scene and potentially bailing out on his friends. But yeah, we know MC's shit doesn't stink and he can do no wrong.

 

[DIKHammer]

I miss when we used to talk about how we want to fuck Emily and Dylan

I much rather be talking about EMily or Dylan that Zach too, brother

 

[acmb2017]

guys am I in the right universe or on drugs cause I swore I read a page of people defending Zack.

Seems to be one person to me. Who as I said earlier thinks its another young adults mission to teach dipshit to grow up and act like a normal person....
Why is personal accountability such a foreign concept nowadays? I can't wait to hear this ludicrous explanation from Zach's new defender

 

[BadassDolphin]

View attachment 5595945

 

[ffive]

Seems to be one person to me. Who as I said earlier thinks its another young adults mission to teach dipshit to grow up and act like a normal person....
Why is personal accountability such a foreign concept nowadays? I can't wait to hear this ludicrous explanation from Zach's new defender

I think you completely fail to understand what i actually mean. So, let me try in simple terms.

* it's not anyone's mission to teach dipshits to grow up
* but a good friend is someone who helps their supposed good friends to grow
* so, someone who just leaves you up to dry or better yet, mocks you behind your back? That's simply not someone you'd call a good friend
* ergo, MC it's not someone who could be described as such, when it comes to Zach
* and, you know, this is fine. MC has no obligation to be Zach's good friend. And he isn't. End of story.

but simply acknowledging that for some reason makes people go up in arms like their own mother got insulted and arguing in the earnest that no acshually this is not true at all, and what about Zach, look how horrible he is, and etc and so on. What are you even arguing for? Why is it such an unacceptable statement that at the end of the day MC is just another teenager shithead who isn't much smarter than Zach, and gets away with his shit actions mostly thanks to the privilege of being the protagonist in a story? He isn't you. It's not insult to you to say something that's not completely positive about him. So you can simply let it be.

 

[Ozymandias037]

Where is Zach supposed to learn personal accountability and social dynamics from? If he can't already read the room, if he doesn't have the social skills that everyone else takes for granted, how is he supposed to get them? You can say he has only himself to blame for that lack, and maybe that's true. And you can say that he has had some half-explanations that went over his head, and that is definitely true. But also, who is going to explain this shit to him? He obviously doesn't get it, and needs someone to do it. If the MC considers Zach a friend, he should at least try.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying Zach isn't a POS for dropping and betraying MC just because Ethan manipulates him a little bit. Obviously Zach is at fault there too for not being mature/smart enough to actually talk it out with MC before jumping to conclusions and violence. Zach is also a stereotypical "But I'm A Nice Guy!" kind of dude, who just doesn't fucking understand that he's being overbearing and creepy. And that's on him, as is his unwillingness to take a hint or to change his behavior.

But like... it's not like MC is exactly a paragon of rationality and mature behavior either, y'know? How many times have we all talked shit about his tendency to run away from awkward or unpleasant conversations/circumstances? I'm not trying to say that it's MC's job to help Zach, but someone should. Just ostracizing him without trying to help is a dick thing to do.

I don't really understand the sheer venom of the Zach hate in this thread. He's not a good friend and he's kind of a dumbass, but like... he's not some kind of mortal enemy, either. He's just a slightly dumb, mostly immature guy who doesn't understand how to interact with girls and that made him easy to manipulate. It's not like he went completely no-contact with his best friend over a single misunderstanding and refused to listen to any kind of explanation or apology. What kind of unreasonable dickhead would do that?

 

[acmb2017]

Actually the MC is a dipshit as well. I don't like the way Nyx places bad and worse choices on how to handle many overblown for drama situations. Will never get me to say otherwise. Back to my point in general is when I was that age I wouldn't waste my time teaching someone how to behave as I would tell the guy we are not friends and GTFO until he grows up.
I am not up in arms defending the MC just as I will never defend Zach.
Appreciate the clarification on your position.
Afraid we seem to disagree based on my personal beliefs and experiences. We may just be of different generations .
All good and game on.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I think you completely fail to understand what i actually mean. So, let me try in simple terms.

* it's not anyone's mission to teach dipshits to grow up
* but a good friend is someone who helps their supposed good friends to grow
* so, someone who just leaves you up to dry or better yet, mocks you behind your back? That's simply not someone you'd call a good friend
* ergo, MC it's not someone who could be described as such, when it comes to Zach
* and, you know, this is fine. MC has no obligation to be Zach's good friend. And he isn't. End of story.

but simply acknowledging that for some reason makes people go up in arms like their own mother got insulted and arguing in the earnest that no acshually this is not true at all, and what about Zach, look how horrible he is, and etc and so on. What are you even arguing for? Why is it such an unacceptable statement that at the end of the day MC is just another teenager shithead who isn't much smarter than Zach, and gets away with his shit actions mostly thanks to the privilege of being the protagonist in a story? He isn't you. It's not insult to you to say something that's not completely positive about him. So you can simply let it be.

WTF?
If you want o be a zach fanboy, then be a zach fanboy but stop with the bullshit.

Zach is a bad friend because he puts MC in bad situations. Zach almost getting the MC jumped is not excused by Zach being stupid. No other character in any other sex game on this site gets held to the standards that you're talking about but apparently because the MC isnt teaching Zach manners then he's a bad friend. I guess that makes every MC in every popular game on this site a bad friend since none of them do what you're talking about.

 

[LSC82]

I think it's more accurate to say i don't see Zach as someone who has bad intentions. He's just a normal high school teenager with normal high school teenager interests (that means mostly girls and trying to get laid) who is pretty dense about interacting with girls. He is not malicious, and seems to try bonding with MC and his classmates as well as he can (which isn't very good but hey, skill issue)

Ironically, on the one outing where MC, Zach, Layla and Elena go together, it's not Zach who ends up an embarrassment that ruins anyone's chances, but it's Elena who gets shit-faced drunk and the MC who ends up making a scene and potentially bailing out on his friends. But yeah, we know MC's shit doesn't stink and he can do no wrong.

In high school and college i've had friends who were permanently horny and had very little good judgement, heck i might've been one
But the "well intentioned goof" isn't flying here.

Not only Zach is the horny guy who is trying too hard and fucking things up to comical levels... he shows no capacity of learning, not a single critical bone in his body...
And he's showing a complete lack of morals when it comes to get what he wants when he goes to Ethan for help to get Valeria... he sees her as something he can acquire.
Working with his new friend to ruin other people(including his former friend) to get what he wants.
Nyx made Zach into that guy who acts "i helped you, now you must reward me", when the girls don't reward him for his "good deeds" something must be blamed.

He's just as amoral as Ethan, the difference being that Ethan at least knows how to flex his money and influence to get what he wants.

I think you completely fail to understand what i actually mean. So, let me try in simple terms.

* it's not anyone's mission to teach dipshits to grow up
* but a good friend is someone who helps their supposed good friends to grow
* so, someone who just leaves you up to dry or better yet, mocks you behind your back? That's simply not someone you'd call a good friend
* ergo, MC it's not someone who could be described as such, when it comes to Zach
* and, you know, this is fine. MC has no obligation to be Zach's good friend. And he isn't. End of story.

but simply acknowledging that for some reason makes people go up in arms like their own mother got insulted and arguing in the earnest that no acshually this is not true at all, and what about Zach, look how horrible he is, and etc and so on. What are you even arguing for? Why is it such an unacceptable statement that at the end of the day MC is just another teenager shithead who isn't much smarter than Zach, and gets away with his shit actions mostly thanks to the privilege of being the protagonist in a story? He isn't you. It's not insult to you to say something that's not completely positive about him. So you can simply let it be.

MC has at points told Zach to tone down how he approaches girls, listen to them... all to precisely zero results, there's only so much a person can do with a "friend" that isn't receptive to advice and willing to change.

Instead of taking the advice Zach gets jealous of the attention the MC is getting, starts seeing him as a traitor for stealing what's "rightfully his", again that "i saw her first" mindset.
And specially as it comes to Valeria it's a complete overreaction by him since nothing had happened at that point(and depending on the player choices, nothing will happen).

I find it hard to put them in the same category because of how Zach sees women as objects and his lack of morals in working with Ethan as long as he gets what he wants(Valeria).
Even the biggest asshole MC(the choice between going manwhore and boring devoted BF is up to each and every player), seems to understand that he's hurting people and has to stop... he just has a hard time saying no to hot girls

 

[Capt_Kirk]

you know, this is fine. MC has no obligation to be Zach's good friend. And he isn't. End of story.

 

[Kaskaze]

Since theres so many zach lovers in this thread at the moment I'll present a pic to get you all hot and bothered

View attachment 5597640

Are you sending another picture of Zach’s ass again? It was so nice reading those opinions and thoughts about him, and you just had to ruin it

 

[Elduriel]

jesus, people psychoanalyzing characters like Zach here. Flash-news everyone.... he is just a badly written, originally intended as comic relief asshole of a character that never gets the girl. That's his personality. Why are you writing fucking essays about him?

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

jesus, people psychoanalyzing characters like Zach here. Flash-news everyone.... he is just a badly written, originally intended as comic relief asshole of a character that never gets the girl. That's his personality. Why are you writing fucking essays about him?

We spent more time thinking of that useless ginger fuck than nyx ever did.

 

[Dessolos]

jesus, people psychoanalyzing characters like Zach here. Flash-news everyone.... he is just a badly written, originally intended as comic relief asshole of a character that never gets the girl. That's his personality. Why are you writing fucking essays about him?

I saw the word Zack and I just scrolled to the next comment don't got time to waste talking about someone like Zack

 

[Kaskaze]

jesus, people psychoanalyzing characters like Zach here. Flash-news everyone.... he is just a badly written, originally intended as comic relief asshole of a character that never gets the girl. That's his personality. Why are you writing fucking essays about him?

Yes, he’s an idiot and a poorly written character, but he fits into the story as one element of it. If it weren’t for that ginger idiot, we might not even have Val’s route. So yeah, it’s fun to read comments about him. And on top of that, there’s always something happening in this thread, which makes the wait for the next update more enjoyable.