QSP Abandoned Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.2.3] [Old Huntsman + Community development]

[way2co0l]

I do appreciate you typing all of this out and there's some good information in here!

And I'll concede there are some alternative options in there, but as it stands I feel kind of forced into a single playstyle in order to succeed. Most of what you typed up basically revolved around the colosseum which as I currently understand it is the only solid path to succeeding on extreme difficulty.

Other options are only viable sources of income down the road. You won't be hunting in the fogs anytime soon. Training cows, pigs, or egg layers to my knowledge requires a barn which the cheapest access to that comes from the outcasts but my very first decade's bill from there turned out to be 340 sparks.

I'm resetting my game back to the point I sold my last slave and staying in the slums because I simply can't afford that with the payouts I'm currently looking at, and I'm basically resigning myself to the fact I'm going to need to train a gladiatrix as that appears to be the only way I'll be able to get myself out of the slums anytime soon.

Like, I'm not denying it's possible to do, it just feels like there's really only one way to do it which means my plan to train an artist has to get thrown away because I simply cannot make it work. I tried and got 14 days in before I decided to give up on it. The money I was going to make from it wasn't going to cover my expenses ultimately. At least not while renting with the food costs for slave+assistant and standard of living increase to my expenses. I would have had to train a D+ slave in 2 decades to break even come close to breaking even and that wasn't going to happen. I can make a profit on an artist if I stay in the slums but there's no way I can do it with renting costs.

You're confusing empathy with temperament. Arena battles raise both temperament and nature, which together with pride determine the slave's sanity level.

Edit... Just re-read the tooltip and indeed I was reading it wrong. My apologies.

 

[way2co0l]

If you resize the window, this happens because our UI doesn't scale properly.

Hmmm, weird. I never touched the window size, but I see when I maximize the game to fit my screen that I can see it more clearly. Good to know.

 

[way2co0l]

Also, is the whip meant to be hard locked behind only 2 special techniques? Battle cry and roundhouse kick seem to work with it, but since the whip doesn't appear to count as slashing, piercing, or blunt, it won't work with any of the other special abilities. That feels like a pretty big penalty considering how powerful those abilities are and that a weapon with one of those qualities could effectively use twice as many. Is that an intentional effort to penalize it?

 

[joeshmo828282]

I just gave Vujin the wise the most pathetic lemon! 5 despair suicidal, murderous (literally 3 nights in a row she tried to kill me) girl with a B rank pony skill!

It was a stupid tough race course, and I had my slave ploddle though at 1 mph the whole way, (not quite, we actually went forward at -2 mph for a minute there, which was really impressive) but whadaa know, EVERYONE ELSE CRASHED so we 'won the race'.

rofls.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

as it stands I feel kind of forced into a single playstyle in order to succeed. Most of what you typed up basically revolved around the colosseum which as I currently understand it is the only solid path to succeeding on extreme difficulty.

I was describing how you could, if you wanted to, avoid selling slaves at all. That particular strategy does depend on the colosseum, because in the Slums you don't have other income in the early game. But, it's a challenge on top of extreme challenge, to do that.

Selling slaves at guild auctions can be a good source of income, but it varies. I've seen a D+ bring in 1000+ sparks at auction. On the other hand, I've seen a C- (even with multiple specializations, a spa makeover and stylish clothing) bring in 855. Living in the Slums is a lot cheaper than that so you can save up enough to transition into an apartment and then quickly populate the barn to help offset costs.

Also, is the whip meant to be hard locked behind only 2 special techniques? Battle cry and roundhouse kick seem to work with it, but since the whip doesn't appear to count as slashing, piercing, or blunt, it won't work with any of the other special abilities. That feels like a pretty big penalty considering how powerful those abilities are and that a weapon with one of those qualities could effectively use twice as many. Is that an intentional effort to penalize it?

The whip isn't any of those types, so yes, it's limited. But, you can dual wield a whip and another one-handed weapon. Put the other weapon first so you can use the specials with it.

 

[way2co0l]

I was describing how you could, if you wanted to, avoid selling slaves at all. That particular strategy does depend on the colosseum, because in the Slums you don't have other income in the early game. But, it's a challenge on top of extreme challenge, to do that.

Selling slaves at guild auctions can be a good source of income, but it varies. I've seen a D+ bring in 1000+ sparks at auction. On the other hand, I've seen a C- (even with multiple specializations, a spa makeover and stylish clothing) bring in 855.


The whip isn't any of those types, so yes, it's limited. But, you can dual wield a whip and another one-handed weapon. Put the other weapon first so you can use the specials with it.

Again I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me figure it all out. I promise I'm not trying to be critical or a pain in the ass. I think the main reason I'm sharing my thoughts and questions and such is because you guys might find it useful to know what less experienced users that don't already know all the mechanics are seeing and how they're working through it. lol.

When it comes to the auctions, I just don't understand how that is meant to work. The description in the wiki portrays it as a great place to sell your A+ and S+ slaves in the end game as it's really the only place that'll buy them once you've finished satisfying the leader's demands for them. It also suggests they need to be well rounded satisfying several specializations in order to bring in a good price, so I'm personally highly reluctant to make any kinds of plans involving it at this point. lol. Especially when the prices listed for auctions in the wiki as compared to alternative selling options is so much lower than the others. I feel like you're essentially playing Russian roulette by choosing that option early game as you'll effectively be screwed if you don't get the kind of price you need from it.

I think that's my biggest complaint with extreme difficulty honestly. I want it to be hard and I chose it for a reason. lol. But there's basically no wriggle room at all. There's no writing a slave off as lost and selling it for meat, or watching it get killed in an arena fight and continuing. At least not with your first slave. That happens and it's essentially game over, time to restart. Those fallback options seem to only be viable in lesser difficulty modes. lol. In my case it's resulting in a lot of blatant save scumming as I experiment to try to learn. lol.

 

[way2co0l]

That whole battlecry/dashing strike into roundhouse kick combo is seriously brutal. Currently managing to defeat the shinobe opponent in 3-4 turns after a roundhouse that does 60+ damage. lol. I've seen on the wiki it's possible to get it even higher, but it's already proving very effective for me.

 

[sarinee]

That whole battlecry/dashing strike into roundhouse kick combo is seriously brutal. Currently managing to defeat the shinobe opponent in 3-4 turns after a roundhouse that does 60+ damage. lol. I've seen on the wiki it's possible to get it even higher, but it's already proving very effective for me.

You've found the key to combat. Try potions then.

 

[way2co0l]

How many "teaching" attempts does it take to start seeing an increase in that slaver stat? I've tried personally teaching at least a few dozen times between the 3 girls but still F rank in it.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Something I've noticed is the font for the "-" symbol is very feint when for example holding the cursor over their physique to see if they're close to gaining or losing weight. In that popup that shows you the precise score they currently have in it, the "+" is very visible, but the "-" is so feint I have to get super close to the screen to confirm there's something there at all.

It's in the roadmap, in the unsolvable section unfortunately

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

How many "teaching" attempts does it take to start seeing an increase in that slaver stat? I've tried personally teaching at least a few dozen times between the 3 girls but still F rank in it.

50 to D-
50 more to C-
100 more to B+

Takes time to become better than school/tutors.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Again I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me figure it all out.

We appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences.

When it comes to the auctions, I just don't understand how that is meant to work. The description in the wiki portrays it as a great place to sell your A+ and S+ slaves in the end game as it's really the only place that'll buy them once you've finished satisfying the leader's demands for them. It also suggests they need to be well rounded satisfying several specializations in order to bring in a good price, so I'm personally highly reluctant to make any kinds of plans involving it at this point. lol. Especially when the prices listed for auctions in the wiki as compared to alternative selling options is so much lower than the others. I feel like you're essentially playing Russian roulette by choosing that option early game as you'll effectively be screwed if you don't get the kind of price you need from it.

The wiki is not a reliable source of information about the game. It is not maintained by the devs and it's a mix of info about multiple versions of the game, mostly not up to date and sometimes wrong even at the time it was written. My experience has been different. Sometimes the auction gives a lower value than you could get elsewhere (e.g. 605 for a C-), but usually if you attend to charm the value is at least competitive. And the upside can be significant.

Worst case, there’s always the option of selling the slave somewhere else if you’re in a hurry. For example, several places buy unlimited slaves without caring about charm: real estate office, medical center, brothel, gentlemen’s club, public animal farm, pub. War camp also doesn’t care about charm, but isn’t always looking to buy (sometimes off-camera another slaver sells to the war camp and then there’s a cooldown before they are ready to buy another).

I think that's my biggest complaint with extreme difficulty honestly. I want it to be hard and I chose it for a reason. lol. But there's basically no wriggle room at all. There's no writing a slave off as lost and selling it for meat, or watching it get killed in an arena fight and continuing. At least not with your first slave. That happens and it's essentially game over, time to restart. Those fallback options seem to only be viable in lesser difficulty modes. lol. In my case it's resulting in a lot of blatant save scumming as I experiment to try to learn. lol.

There are also loans as a fallback. Given 500$ and 3 decades, you just need to find a way to earn 600$ to repay. During that time you can get at least 100$ from two arena wins (subtract 10-20$ for medical if you aren’t using the “disposable slave” tactic I described earlier). Possibly 150$ depending on how the timing aligns with the arena schedule.

Can you train a D+ within 3 decades? If so, that’s at least 750$ to a district resident, so repayment of a 30-day loan is covered with 150$ to spare (plus whatever you didn't spend of the loan). If not, you can try the auction at D-, or sell a D- to the subpurchaser (250 if not mindbroken, 150 if mindbroken). If you didn’t spend much of the loan, this may be enough to repay it.

By using harsh methods (not trying to avoid raising despair) on a slave you are planning to give to the subpurchaser, you can reach D- much faster. Incidentally, this is also a way to get more value from slaves you “rescue” from the Fogs and don’t plan to keep long-term.

You can also start a guild contract just before loan is due, which will give you a prepayment that you can also hand over to the moneylender if needed.

So it is possible to recover from loss of a slave even if you have zero savings; if you lose your slave but have some savings, you don’t need to take a loan immediately, so it’s easier to get to a point where you can repay a loan with some profit.

Extreme difficulty encourages you to find strategies like this.

 

[Truly Slothful]

A slave I picked up from the guild has A+ Endurance (not even S) and she's recovering 6 energy from 0 at the beginning of each day, with only Philtre active (I've used Tonics on her in the past, but not recently). While this is awesome and I certainly can't complain, I was wondering what might cause this so that I can reproduce it on other slaves? I've also noticed she's able to be Ecstatic while living in basically impoverished settings; none of my other slaves I trained, even Isabella get that high.

Been playing the game for a while over the updates and really do love the work that's been put into it. Keep up the great work devs!

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

A slave I picked up from the guild has A+ Endurance (not even S) and she's recovering 6 energy from 0 at the beginning of each day, with only Philtre active (I've used Tonics on her in the past, but not recently). While this is awesome and I certainly can't complain, I was wondering what might cause this so that I can reproduce it on other slave? I've also noticed she's able to be Ecstatic while living in basically impoverished settings; none of my other slaves I trained, even Isabella get that high.

Been playing the game for a while over the updates and really do love the work that's been put into it. Keep up the great work devs!

Is she your assistant or your slave? Assistants who are addicted to drugs (kamra, pollen) will help themselves to your supply.

A slave can have extra energy from fresh food, sleeping in boudoir, sleeping with the master, or sleeping on a bedroll with a stuffed toy.

 

[Truly Slothful]

Is she your assistant or your slave? Assistants who are addicted to drugs (kamra, pollen) will help themselves to your supply.

A slave can have extra energy from fresh food, sleeping in boudoir, sleeping with the master, or sleeping on a bedroll with a stuffed toy.

She's a slave, unable to be an assistant with only the philtre devotion point on her. Here's a screenshot.

 

[Truly Slothful]

ah, gotcha, boudoirs didn't used to give that extra energy beyond 5, so that's why I was confused. that's the reason indeed, thank you!

 

[way2co0l]

We appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences.


The wiki is not a reliable source of information about the game. It is not maintained by the devs and it's a mix of info about multiple versions of the game, mostly not up to date and sometimes wrong even at the time it was written. My experience has been different. Sometimes the auction gives a lower value than you could get elsewhere (e.g. 605 for a C-), but usually if you attend to charm the value is at least competitive. And the upside can be significant.

Worst case, there’s always the option of selling the slave somewhere else if you’re in a hurry. For example, several places buy unlimited slaves without caring about charm: real estate office, medical center, brothel, gentlemen’s club, public animal farm, pub. War camp also doesn’t care about charm, but isn’t always looking to buy (sometimes off-camera another slaver sells to the war camp and then there’s a cooldown before they are ready to buy another).


There are also loans as a fallback. Given 500$ and 3 decades, you just need to find a way to earn 600$ to repay. During that time you can get at least 100$ from two arena wins (subtract 10-20$ for medical if you aren’t using the “disposable slave” tactic I described earlier). Possibly 150$ depending on how the timing aligns with the arena schedule.

Can you train a D+ within 3 decades? If so, that’s at least 750$ to a district resident, so repayment of a 30-day loan is covered with 150$ to spare (plus whatever you didn't spend of the loan). If not, you can try the auction at D-, or sell a D- to the subpurchaser (250 if not mindbroken, 150 if mindbroken). If you didn’t spend much of the loan, this may be enough to repay it.

By using harsh methods (not trying to avoid raising despair) on a slave you are planning to give to the subpurchaser, you can reach D- much faster. Incidentally, this is also a way to get more value from slaves you “rescue” from the Fogs and don’t plan to keep long-term.

You can also start a guild contract just before loan is due, which will give you a prepayment that you can also hand over to the moneylender if needed.

So it is possible to recover from loss of a slave even if you have zero savings; if you lose your slave but have some savings, you don’t need to take a loan immediately, so it’s easier to get to a point where you can repay a loan with some profit.

Extreme difficulty encourages you to find strategies like this.

Well the gladiatrix approach is working for me ATM. I personally wish there were more viable options and I am hearing what you're saying with the examples you've shared but it feels to me there's really only one right way to play on extreme and ATM its going well for me.

It's 39 days into training her to A+ in both endurance (started C+) and gladiatrix (started F-) and she just won her 4th arena fight. Which coincidentally was the first purse I've made over 50 (56).

I'm still currently losing money on her as those winnings aren't enough to offset the cost to feed/heal/reward her but it's at least paying for enough of it that I'm not going to feel a ton of pressure to sell her immediately. Which is good because she's still not even a D rank yet. Lol. She's still got 2 rebellion with just 1 fear, 3 awareness, 2 taming, 4 habit, and no despair/spoiling so not in a bad place all in all. I simply prioritized training for the arena over obedience as that's the only way I have to mitigate the time pressure to sell in a hurry.

My plan is to transition into training her pony skills next to start using her in the races too, by which point her lack of obedience will likely sort itself out on its own and begin the path to devotion while I begin the process of building her up to a B+ as that again feels like the only viable option if I ever want to get out of the slums (i still wish there was better a better sense of progression but i understand you guys feel differently).

She's already doing well with gladiatrix skills. She also has the graceful and painting traits, and while she has a weak metabolism that hasn't been tough to manage considering all the physical exertion. Got her to model physique already and I've been adjusting diet to keep her there which has forced me to spend more on generous portions on several occasions.

That level of exertion should become easier to manage now though as I transition her training to other areas. If I'm going to sell her at auction then I want her to qualify for a few different specializations.

Getting her to qualify as an actual gladiatrix seems like it should be easy as all I need to do for that now (other that obedience in the first place) is get her temperament from C to B and its already moving in that direction. Both it and nature started as D so I've made good progress there.

Next with her special traits it feels like it makes sense to specialize her as an artist as well and I'm already halfway there. Getting her to green (already B) as a painter should be relatively easy to do as well minimizing the expense of training her.

And lastly since she's already highly intelligent I'll probably go ahead and specialize her as an assistant as well as she'll likely pick up on it quickly and cheaply and give me an opportunity to personally train her more.

It's my hope that all these qualities will make her valuable at auction and the only thing standing in my way from doing it is time but the arena options are buying me that.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

it feels to me there's really only one right way to play on extreme

What would we need to do to create another "right way" in your view? What makes a certain way "right"? Money management has two sides, income and expenses. I gave examples of various ways you can minimize expenses or get income. That seems like multiple ways to me.

Some of the non-district-resident NPCs who buy slaves allow you to negotiate the price, which adds another layer of possibilities on the income side.

It's 39 days into training her to A+ in both endurance (started C+) and gladiatrix (started F-) and she just won her 4th arena fight.

You may have to skip some battles to avoid losing her when she becomes a champion. She will stay if she has devotion than fear.

i still wish there was better a better sense of progression but i understand you guys feel differently

By better sense of progression, do you specifically think C- or C+ rating should have a higher value?

Got her to model physique already and I've been adjusting diet to keep her there which has forced me to spend more on generous portions on several occasions.

Were you mostly keeping her on moderate portion or on restricted?

 

[Crasher92]

What would we need to do to create another "right way" in your view? What makes a certain way "right"? Money management has two sides, income and expenses. I gave examples of various ways you can minimize expenses or get income. That seems like multiple ways to me.

Some of the non-district-resident NPCs who buy slaves allow you to negotiate the price, which adds another layer of possibilities on the income side.


You may have to skip some battles to avoid losing her when she becomes a champion. She will stay if she has devotion than fear.


By better sense of progression, do you specifically think C- or C+ rating should have a higher value?


Were you mostly keeping her on moderate portion or on restricted?

I think what he's been getting at, and mentioned earlier are way for other skills to earn you money, beside some of them helping you slightly mitigate expenses, Painter could over time finish paintings you sell for monetary gains, small to medium based on skill, dancer could be sent to perform, concubines could be sent to the brothel, small ways like these where most all skills could gain you some time.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

I think what he's been getting at, and mentioned earlier are way for other skills to earn you money, beside some of them helping you slightly mitigate expenses, Painter could over time finish paintings you sell for monetary gains, small to medium based on skill, dancer could be sent to perform, concubines could be sent to the brothel, small ways like these where most all skills could gain you some time.

We’ve been thinking about introducing a new guild-sponsored event once per decade where you test your slave against rival guild members’ slaves in a choice of contests: cooking, alchemy, witchcraft, dance, music or painting.

To make it more immersive, we could simulate the rivals’ slaves developing over time and you would see some of the same ones appear in multiple contests.

It would have a rule that only slaves of the same rating can compete against each other, and there would be a lifetime limit of five competitions per slave, so that the participants wouldn’t be able to always put their best slave but instead need to keep bringing new ones.

This would also give us a framework for adding more interaction with other guild NPCs, with event chains, special missions and the like.