QSP Abandoned Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.2.3] [Old Huntsman + Community development]

[teletube]

Guys, I really like the game.
I've been playing it bit by bit for years now, I guess.
I believe, these latest community changes make it nearly perfect.
And by now, it seems to be working flawlessly.

Although, there are some things I can complain about still.
Or rather, things I dream this game would had.
I believe the mechanics of training is so perfect and polished by now... there is almost no point in investing more into it. There are other aspects to the game that can take it straight up to an absolute another level.

For example:

1) More stories and unique characters (slaves).
I'd really like to see more characters to have their own unique stories. For example, they could have their own goals and you can train them to reach those, and then they can have multiple outcomes depending on the ways you took with them, something like that.
For example: maybe a girl wants to be a gladiator, you have a unique dialogue about that, you AGREE - you train her to become an arena champion, she leaves you once its over, but she hands you some nice cash (or maybe you don't let her go, and if you were nice to her, she stays with you willingly - in love).
Or you DISAGREE - you train her to become an obedient cum bucket or whatever, and then you get some unique dialogue about that too or whatever.
Or you TRICK HER - you train her to become a gladiator, but you don't let her go, and subdue her after.

Yes, there are already few unique characters (the ones at the Smuggler, I guess, plus maybe few more), but they have almost no difference from ordinary slaves. Yes, they do have some rare traits and they are hard to train, but their whole story still ends up with simple training. I believe, there can be so much more involved there.

2) I really wish there would be more things to win in battles in the fog.
I get a random girl each time. Cool. But can there be atleast few unique ones? Like, I don't know, an Elf girl or Goblin girl?! Or atleast a human girl, but still with some uniqueness like dialogues and shit?!
I know there are some items to gain there, but I guess there also could be more.
+ Surely there can be more enemies and more places overall.

3) Harem? Marriage?
It would be cool to be able to marry girls or just leave them to live with you, to become part of your harem. And then you could put them to work around home (to produce some food or other resources) or maybe in shops around the city to make some money? Or maybe they could give bonuses to your skills based on their skills, traits, etc.

4) If you get a harem, then maybe its also reasonable to make more stuff to do around the house + the ability to assign the slave to do it automatically?

5) More stories to randomly happen around the city?
Like some random events, where you get some unique slaves. Just some standard formula from all hentai games?!
For example: you catch some girl stealing apples on the market, and you make her your slave and train her to become a good citizen or whatever.
Or you catch a nun masturbating in the church and you blackmail her or whatever, and she become your slave.
Or you flirt with the bartender and she decides to leave her job to work for you, little does she know, you trick her to become your slave (not your partner).
Or some girl asks you to lend her money, but then she is unable to pay and is forced to become your slave.
Etc.

6) The AI arts seem out of place.
This is a minor one. I just feel like the AI arts for those few girls coming from smuggler shop feel quite out of place. I would even argue that their original arts were better (even though they didn't allow different clothing display).

Well...
As I said, training mechanics are so polished and diverse already... I really think that at this point, the much more important question is not 'how you get/train slaves', but rather 'what are you getting them for'. I would just like to have more goals around and for those goals to expand beyond the formula of 'Hi! Im a citizen. Now get me a girl who has these stats!' More story content coming from slaves themselves (and from all other places too), would be super interesting, I believe.

Sorry for the long post.
Once again, I do think the game is amazing.
And I believe it became so cleaned and polished with community updates, its simply perfect!
Yet, I do believe, there is also a lot of room here to make this game an absolute best.

Thank you for all your hard work!

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

1) More stories and unique characters (slaves).

We're perfectionists, and not authors, so we'll need some new contributors to make this a reality. From my perspective there's a lot of existing characters already, not slaves, but NPCs, which we can flesh out before we start inventing new ones. I spent a bit of time exploring Masters of Raana which has more unique characters and it felt very incomplete when the unique characters' stories simply stopped progressing for lack of additional content. It also made the generics' lack of uniqueness more starkly apparent. The training-to-satisfy-contracts framework we have now at least provides (somewhat) satisfying end points for every character. In general, I think it's better to focus on expanding relationships/rivalries/political intrigue with non-slaves, because slaves are treated as commodities and not something to become attached to.

2) I really wish there would be more things to win in battles in the fog.

See point 1 about authors. Non-human slaves can introduce a combinatorial explosion of text and image variations to account for species distinctions. In terms of items to obtain from battles, perhaps we could add some potions as loot from the more "civilized" encounters (such as black medic, knight, lich, beastmen). Many of the battles are against monsters who wouldn't have anything loot-worthy. As for unique encounters, we've added one...

3) Harem? Marriage?

You can currently have: slave, prisoner, assistant, farmhand, cow, egglayer, pig, and six frozen slaves. That's 13. Assistant, farmhand, cow and egglayer can be effectively considered "harem" roles, as they can remain part of your household indefinitely. Marriage is a type of contract that cannot exist between slaves and slavers. A freed slave could in theory marry the slaver, but it's unclear if there exists a path to freedom other than arena championship.

4) If you get a harem, then maybe its also reasonable to make more stuff to do around the house + the ability to assign the slave to do it automatically?

Assistant and farmhand already automate many tasks.

5) More stories to randomly happen around the city?
Like some random events, where you get some unique slaves. Just some standard formula from all hentai games?!
For example: you catch some girl stealing apples on the market, and you make her your slave and train her to become a good citizen or whatever.
Or you catch a nun masturbating in the church and you blackmail her or whatever, and she become your slave.
Or you flirt with the bartender and she decides to leave her job to work for you, little does she know, you trick her to become your slave (not your partner).
Or some girl asks you to lend her money, but then she is unable to pay and is forced to become your slave.
Etc.

We have ideas along these lines on the roadmap. Again we want to flesh out the existing world if possible, making some of the "off-camera" activities of other groups intersect the daily life of the slaver. Less random slave acquisitions, more risk and intrigue and texture. Even hearing rumors while drinking in the tavern and being able to follow up on some of them for special missions. What more time-honored tradition of RPGs than that? The key is that we lack an intelligent GM for an open-ended sandbox world so we have to decide how faithfully we want to model background events to weave a consistent narrative (design such a GM) vs. stringing together random vignettes.

For end-game content, the general idea is to be able to climb ladders of influence and power, navigating rivals and assassins, game of thrones style. Of course, at some point this would necessitate either wielding power through the guild or influential patrons or striking out independently, the latter being in essence a new game as it would be a departure from the slaver role and gameplay loop. The former could be an overlay, forming alliances, gathering blackmail material or other leverage to neutralize opposing factions, developing a spy network of former slaves, etc... to accomplish what? To change the moral character of the Eternal Rome? To learn the secrets of the Vatican? To incite a rebellion against the Vatican? To have a child to carry on a legacy?

6) The AI arts seem out of place.

Yes, the quality leaves something to be desired. Still I think they are a step up from what we had before for those characters. We expect AI art generation will continue to improve. Current state isn't good enough for our standards to take beyond the tutorial slaves as a proof of concept.

Thank you for all your hard work!

 

[Max&Chloe]

Do you like the changes since 2.2.0 outside of the training system?

I am sorry that these days I spent all my time trying to meet the ends as Johny, thus I do not spare much time in other part of the game.

I gave several examples earlier of how she can be tamed even in the current version.

That is right. I really found some ways to prevent her taming losing by myself these days, just like wearing a noble garlia or using a Magna Magnifika or combining both of them. However, when taking those methods to practice use, you have to take these cost to consideration, it is unwise for Johny to save so many sparks for Isabella, since you can not make profits from these aisde from her assisting.

Johny has a high libido so he can gain multiple strength points each day either from sex or from physical punishments (if sex is refused).

This may work, though I do not know punishment can do something good to strengh improvement. But here comes the same problem, if you spent too much energy in trainning assistant, you can not train your slave well at the same time. C+ Strength does not allow you to too many things in one day.

Isabella's mood and put a wedding dress on her

Same problem, wedding dress is too costly and I do not know wedding dress itself can increase devotion overnight.

Above are my feedback to your replies.

Here I will share an another interesting slave. Since I found it not financially beneficial to focus on trainning Isabella alone after several trials, I decided to buy another slave in the market and train them at the same time. Then I brought Forest in the market. Everything looked perfect except for her physique which I found it a disaster later.

After several days' trainning, I found one trait of her: Torpid, at the begining this did not catch my attention.

I am so confident that I have so much sparks and enough time certainly I can train another B+ slave, so I spent 50 days and made her fully obedience. In this course, I borrow 2000 sparks again.


It looked everything went well in that time, then I thought up that to sell her as a B+ slave you have to increase her style and exoticism, meaning it necessary for her to lose some weight. However since her is torpid, only when her mood is ecstatic she will do gymnastics happily and gains some merits, otherwise she will refuse or do poorly in gymnastics and feel guilty. Of course, mood losing is also inevitable. All factors above combined makes it very diffcult to achieve my goal, since I have to give her another job after Sententia Vertias. Then an award is needed to boost her mood. Only after all above steps she will do dynamics happily and thus lose some weight. Restricted to slaver and slave strength, it is impossible to lose much weight at the same time, not mention the trouble caused by too much calories in one day. After all, I found it impossible to sell her as a B+ slave before DDL. In these case I have spent too much time (in real life), you know, I have to pay attention Isabella's taming everyday. I have to admit this slave is a trap and her tortured me a lot of time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fine. Just I guessed, she has weakened Metabolism. Torpid, Corpulent, Weakened Metabolism, 3 IN 1! It is a tortue to help her lose some weight. I sold my B+ Isabella for 4460 in this course.

 

[Max&Chloe]

Emergency BUG!
Vegetable 25 in day 132, 10 in day 133.

 

[BliniKot]

Honestly yeah, we should flesh out existing npcs more. One of the thing I suggested recently was selling slaves to shops should increase your reputation with said shop and open up new options/items/commisions from them
just like how selling to a house increases your reputation with that house to allow you to rent/be a patrician of that house

 

[Max&Chloe]

And I have to say, the price of slave is unbalanced at all. In version 2.2.0, M'Lord starts the game with 2500 sparks, the standard price of C+ slave is 1000, B+ 2000. In version 2.2.6.10 and later, M'Lord starts with 8000 sparks, the price of slave is C+ 850, B+ 3500 accordingly. How can we percive this changes ? The increase in M'Lord's origin money show us this city is in inflation, everything in this city needs more money. It really happened. The cost of house rental did increase. If this is right, how can we understand the decrease of slave price in C+ and lower level ?
As it shows below, the obedience comes harder in latest version (2.2.6.16). A slave with 2 fear, 3 awareness, 2 taming, 4 habbits, 0 devotion only has 2 obedience. This means whatever other skills are, she can only get D- level or less. If you want to get her level up to D+ or higher, her must have at least 1 devotion. As you know, the form of devotion is time-cost. The followed day, Kate got 1 devotion and her obedience became 7 accordingly. Her level reached D+ at the same time. This kind of JUMP in slave's level happened many times in latest versions (2.2.6.10, 2.2.6.13, 2.2.6.16), and I do not think this design is reasonable, since it makes many middle levels meaningless. Slaves will not stand in those levels too long or ignore them completely. In Kate's case I spent 40 days to get her level D- and once she got 1 devotion in day 41 she became D+ in version 2.2.6.16. In a earlier case, I spent 19 days to get Beata's level to D- and once she got 1 devotion in day 20 she became C-, She compleletly ignored D+ level. What's more, it just need 1 more day to get Beate to C+ level, which I have mentioned in one of before replies. I trainned Beata in version 2.2.6.10 and due to the changes of taming clothes, I am not sure whether I can a slave so fast in lastest version. These cases above show that you greatly increased the difficulty of trainning a low level slave and at the same time, what did you do ? You reduced the price of low level slave! That is ridiculous, how can you decrease the reward while increasing the cost ? As I account these days the cost of a D+ level is about 600 sparks and her price is only 750, if you sell her to resident. The cost of a B+ slave is about 2000 sparks and her price is 3500 in same condtion. This is another unreasonable point, the hard part of trainning slave is to get her obedient. Once obedient, the left things are just a matter of time. In conclusions, my opinion about slave price is opposite of yours. I think you should increase the price of low level slave instead of decreasing. The price of high level slave can remain current situation due to the inflation in this city. In this version, I found the only profitable way to train slave is to just train B+ level slave. Trainning low level slave is only a waste of time both in game and in reality. I trainned a D+ witch doctor kate and my profit is -700 sparks.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

However, when taking those methods to practice use, you have to take these cost to consideration, it is unwise for Johny to save so many sparks for Isabella, since you can not make profits from these aisde from her assisting.

Although her rating dropped to F- and she refused sex with a Repulsive slaver, she was still useful as an assistant. If not intending to sell her, agree it’s a waste to invest in her.

This may work, though I do not know punishment can do something good to strengh improvement.

If you click the slaver’s strength characteristic it tells you this.

But here comes the same problem, if you spent too much energy in trainning assistant, you can not train your slave well at the same time. C+ Strength does not allow you to too many things in one day.

Isabella can spend her energy on the slave while Johny works on his strength.

Same problem, wedding dress is too costly and I do not know wedding dress itself can increase devotion overnight.

Taking Isabella on dates / giving erotic rewards works too. Point here was to say that if you are training her for sale you can improve her obedience even without raising taming. Admittedly not as quickly, which is why it would be better to use her as an assistant.

it necessary for her to lose some weight. However since her is torpid, only when her mood is ecstatic she will do gymnastics happily and gains some merits, otherwise she will refuse or do poorly in gymnastics and feel guilty. Of course, mood losing is also inevitable.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fine. Just I guessed, she has weakened Metabolism. Torpid, Corpulent, Weakened Metabolism, 3 IN 1! It is a tortue to help her lose some weight. I sold my B+ Isabella for 4460 in this course.

That is an unlucky combination of traits, but losing weight in JONT does not require doing gymnastics. Just ending the day with low enough calories. In this case -500 because she has low metabolism. The “nutritionist” diet would automate lowering her weight. A restricted diet would limit her calories, making it easy to achieve -500 each day.

Clicking on her physique or the calculator next to her calories display tells you how to lower physique:

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Emergency BUG!
Vegetable 25 in day 132, 10 in day 133.

Thanks. This happened because cryostorage was full. Latest dev build moves threshold for ingredient discard to over 100% instead of exactly 100%.

And I have to say, the price of slave is unbalanced at all. In version 2.2.0, M'Lord starts the game with 2500 sparks, the standard price of C+ slave is 1000, B+ 2000. In version 2.2.6.10 and later, M'Lord starts with 8000 sparks, the price of slave is C+ 850, B+ 3500 accordingly. How can we percive this changes ? The increase in M'Lord's origin money show us this city is in inflation, everything in this city needs more money. It really happened. The cost of house rental did increase. If this is right, how can we understand the decrease of slave price in C+ and lower level ?

We increased starting sparks not only to compensate for increased rental costs but also to provide more room for error for new players learning the game.

The adjustments to slave prices were made to reflect the small gap in training time between the lower ratings. Producing slaves of D rating can be very quick, even quicker with the aid of a dungeon to accelerate fear development.

As it shows below, the obedience comes harder in latest version (2.2.6.16). A slave with 2 fear, 3 awareness, 2 taming, 4 habbits, 0 devotion only has 2 obedience. This means whatever other skills are, she can only get D- level or less. If you want to get her level up to D+ or higher, her must have at least 1 devotion.

You can achieve up to C- rating without devotion:


With your example, adding 1 fear or 1 taming would reach D+ without devotion:


Notice her mood here is Optimistic, whereas in your screenshots she was Pessimistic. There are a couple of points of obedience tied to mood.

As you know, the form of devotion is time-cost. The followed day, Kate got 1 devotion and her obedience became 7 accordingly. Her level reached D+ at the same time. This kind of JUMP in slave's level happened many times in latest versions (2.2.6.10, 2.2.6.13, 2.2.6.16), and I do not think this design is reasonable, since it makes many middle levels meaningless. Slaves will not stand in those levels too long or ignore them completely. In Kate's case I spent 40 days to get her level D- and once she got 1 devotion in day 41 she became D+ in version 2.2.6.16. In an earlier case, I spent 19 days to get Beata's level to D- and once she got 1 devotion in day 20 she became C-, She compleletly ignored D+ level. What's more, it just need 1 more day to get Beate to C+ level

A slave that is Haughty or Arrogant takes longer to build devotion. In this case fear can substitute up to C- as shown above. The requirements for the ratings are legacy. C- adds only a little bit of sexual training, common skill training and slightly higher obedience.

I trainned Beata in version 2.2.6.10 and due to the changes of taming clothes, I am not sure whether I can a slave so fast in lastest version. These cases above show that you greatly increased the difficulty of trainning a low level slave and at the same time, what did you do ? You reduced the price of low level slave! That is ridiculous, how can you decrease the reward while increasing the cost ? As I account these days the cost of a D+ level is about 600 sparks and her price is only 750, if you sell her to resident. The cost of a B+ slave is about 2000 sparks and her price is 3500 in same condtion. This is another unreasonable point, the hard part of trainning slave is to get her obedient. Once obedient, the left things are just a matter of time. In conclusions, my opinion about slave price is opposite of yours. I think you should increase the price of low level slave instead of decreasing. The price of high level slave can remain current situation due to the inflation in this city. In this version, I found the only profitable way to train slave is to just train B+ level slave. Trainning low level slave is only a waste of time both in game and in reality. I trainned a D+ witch doctor kate and my profit is -700 sparks.

What were your biggest costs for kate?

Since D slaves can be produced so quickly, their value is lower. Supply/demand.

They can also be sold for more if you improve their charm.

Why is it taking 40 days to reach D-? That seems to be the crux of your profitability problem. To achieve 1 devotion the day after achieving D- implies that you are focusing on raising her devotion before she has achieved positive obedience. Which is a valid strategy if your goal is a higher rating, but unnecessary if D+ is your target.

Look at that example I posted above, D+ in 25 days playing inefficiently and disregarding tutorial advice: https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...tsman-community-development.390/post-13847552

Admittedly this was with a better slaver than Johny, but if you choose a start labeled high difficulty is it unreasonable to expect that you know what you are doing?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Day 5 with Johny on normal (oral rape on day 1, used gag/pear to enforce silence and deny toileting, then eased off as her despair kept rising, started using alcohol to raise mood to lower despair, and spanked her with a slipper a few times to raise her fear, and have not maintained aura supremacy):


Day 12:


Day 14 (recovered sanity via arena battle):


Day 18 (D- because physique dropped):


Day 20 (D+ because refused sex, was punished, gained fear):


Day 22 (gained 1 star of devotion, now limited by beauty):


One possible outcome: Day 31, dressed to increase charm, sold at guild auction for 575$, resulting in 215$ profit after debt repayment.

Another possible outcome: Day 31, dressed to increase charm, sold with bargaining to Don Castilo for 907$, resulting in 458$ profit after debt.

During this experiment, noticed that taming items were not providing any benefit whatsoever (unintentionally). Fixed on latest dev build.

 

[Flying Geaser]

instead of restrictions just achievements: ex: sell your first rank B slave.. etc

 

[Flying Geaser]

What affects guild rank? Does a higher quality or speed award make a difference or is it just a fixed number of points per rank of slave trained?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

What affects guild rank? Does a higher quality or speed award make a difference or is it just a fixed number of points per rank of slave trained?

Quality yes, speed no. Quality is judged by slave rating compared to slaver guild rank.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

instead of restrictions just achievements: ex: sell your first rank B slave.. etc

We already have this in a way with objectives (raising reputation with factions requires progressively higher ratings).

 

[qwertyu12359]

We already have this in a way with objectives (raising reputation with factions requires progressively higher ratings).

I get what he's saying though, and it's different.

Achievements are more of an "instant gratification" thing that talks to your reptilian brain's sense of reward, and desire for completion.

A non-intrusive notification when completing a first contract can feel like a little reward to keep a new player going. They can also be used to make people realize the game is not really finished after Patrician ("Get all trophies from the fog", "Sell a slave to the Pope"). And in the end, platinum trophies for achievements and challenges: "Raise a perfect slave with S+ rating on every stats", "complete a 0 start playthrough with Johnny".

However, a game ideally doesn't need that, as it cheapens emergent gameplay and ruins easter eggs. There's no place for "oh I discovered some unique way of playing" as its own reward, if developers thought about every way of playing and gave you an intimidating list of what to do. I feel that JONT is a "retro game" in spirit, achievements are an anachronic trend to force into it. Besides, it already pleases beginners with sexual content and completionists with difficulty and a clear social ladder to climb.

 

[Max&Chloe]

Thanks. This happened because cryostorage was full. Latest dev build moves threshold for ingredient discard to over 100% instead of exactly 100%.

Another BUG ?
Wielding Whip and Lash in the same time, six (2+1+3) attack selections appear instead of four (2+2).

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

A non-intrusive notification when completing a first contract can feel like a little reward to keep a new player going.

I’d like to see more conversation with NPCs in the game that is informed by the history of what the player has done. Like how in Skyrim there are comments made in passing that you overhear or addressed to you.

“Isn’t that the new slaver Angelika recruited? I saw on the guild board that he finished his first contract already.

Gaudete, [slaver name]! Good luck with your training!”

or

“That new slaver is rising fast. Did you hear he won the arena championship? Everyone wants to buy from him now.”

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

So the note in the slaver skills says A+ outcome, but the results of the lesson dont specify the outcome.

Even if not all of them state an explicit letter grade, there's always an indication of how diligent the slave was.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Another BUG ?
Wielding Whip and Lash in the same time, six (2+1+3) attack selections appear instead of four (2+2).

That's working as intended. You get the two attacks of the primary (first chosen) weapon and one attack from the secondary weapon, plus kick/push/sweep.

 

[Max&Chloe]

That's working as intended. You get the two attacks of the primary (first chosen) weapon and one attack from the secondary weapon, plus kick/push/sweep.

So strange.
And my Johny's fight skill derease as time goes. Is this intended?
If Yes, Why?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

So strange.
And my Johny's fight skill derease as time goes. Is this intended?
If Yes, Why?

Yes, in 2.2.6.2 we added soft caps and slaver skill decay for story mode, and optionally for custom starts. Depending which slaver you pick, you’ll encounter different soft caps. To distinguish the gameplay experience when choosing different normal starts, aligned to the back-story. Master of some, not all, or at least not easily.

We also added a few unique perks for flavor: Maestro gets free theater tickets; Doc gets free medical exams; Silk Daddy gets a bargaining bonus.

For example, try playing Butler: S+ meals from day 1 (with an apartment) for extra energy and passive strength gain, and he doesn’t mind cooking for himself in the early game.