4.10 star(s) 186 Votes

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,518
12,062
I'm late to the party!

This type of creative work is not as methodical as stitching boots or something. There are days when I make 10 renders, there are days when I make 1. And there are days when I make 5 and then scrap them all, because I don't like how a scene feels.
I see that I have one scene left, and I'm like "OK, two weeks should be enough and it's all ready." But then I start working, things aren't clicking and I make little progress.
I can accept that not every day is super productive, I think anyone that has a hobby that they love can attest to the fact that some days you kick ass and then other days you can't complete even the smallest step.

But the rest of this paragraph is a major red flag to me Stoper, and I don't think it's really been acknowledged. If entire day(s) of work are being tossed out because "things aren't clicking", that's a problem. And considering that this development cycle is going on six months, I have to imagine that it wasn't just once or twice that "things didn't click." If these days resulting in negative returns are compounded by days of low production, you have a real project management problem on your hands. If multiple days of low production are then tossed out because "things aren't clicking", the problem has compounded on itself.

Then I see that the scene needs a branching to better account for previous choices, and decide that I should do it. And that can double, even triple the work needed. So it's a week later, and instead of needing two more to finish the scene, I need 6.
But this? This is a five alarm fire. I can understand some days you're feeling more productive than others. I think it's a problem, but I can also wrap my head around entire scenes/groups of renders being tossed out because they aren't clicking. But reworking the very nature of a scene only when you're deep into production is really, really, poor project management. I've said this before, so I'm in danger of sounding like a broken clock, but whether it's a hobby or work, you can't be blindly stumbling through your efforts and changing horses in midstream. This is costing precious time and is totally avoidable. It's one thing to tweak a scene, but you're talking about completely rebuilding them and doubling or tripling the work. That's madness. Details such as branching paths and story elements should be worked out long in advance during the planning process, not during production.

And you know what? Sometimes "good enough" is really good. Sometimes it's better to push through on something that isn't perfect instead of tweaking it to death. As someone who suffers from paralysis by analysis, I have to consciously make the effort to pull the trigger and keep moving forward. Otherwise I get stuck in a constant loop of evaluation and research. The end result is sometimes better, but often only marginally than my original plan; and it came at the expense of my time and effort. Did all that time and effort really net me a result that was proportionally better? Almost never.

That's why I try not to give any release dates or projections. But I keep failing when people keep asking.
I think this is also the wrong approach. It's one thing not give a release date because you're afraid that you'll miss it by a few days. If we were talking about an update that was almost six days late, and you were getting shit for it, I could understand the frustration. But we're talking six months. And endless, undefined, open-ended development cycle invites the problems mentioned earlier because there is no sense of urgency. Sometimes the structured environment provided by a release date can be a good thing, and I think you could benefit from it.

Paraphrasing a quote- "This update will have as much content as previous updates."
I have a hard time accepting this. If we're measuring content by the number of renders, then ok maybe I can see it. But this update is barely going to advance the story, we only have the one major scene. To me, this meets the definition of the Law of Negative Returns. You're pouring all of this effort into a single scene, spending months of your life doing it, and we're barely advancing the story more than a couple of hours. This is negative returns because "more is less." We'll have to wait and see how the scene turns out, but I'm having a hard time accepting the idea that one scene with three routes is the same as a normal update with multiple scenes with varying routes. It feels a little disingenuous to me at this point, but we'll see how it works out.


I don't mean any of this as a "fuck you, I need my p0rn!", but as someone that has supported your Patreon in the past but can't do that again strictly because of the production problems. The game itself is really solid, and I would happily provide financial support, but these update cycles are a real problem.
 

stoper

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
May 4, 2017
1,104
6,898
But the rest of this paragraph is a major red flag to me Stoper, and I don't think it's really been acknowledged.
...
It is how I work. I don't plan every scene in detail beforehand, I start making a scene and go with the flow. So far I'm happy with the quality results, the quantity is lacking. It's the creative choice I've made. Just as you've made your choice on supporting me or not.
 

dobzzz

Active Member
Feb 7, 2018
618
1,388
You're assuming that if people stop supporting me I'll suddenly start working faster. And that's not the case. I do work as fast as I can. Pretty much the only way to speed up the development speed is to cut down on the technical quality of the graphics.
And I've said this before, I'll say it again - I'm not after the money. If I was in for the money, why would I pick one of the less popular types of games? I'd be making a half-assed harem or incest game, with default DAZ assets and generic posing. And I'd be making more money than I make now.
So even if all my patrons leave tomorrow, I'd still be doing what I do today. I understand people's frustration, and I hope I can improve the situation, but I won't do it by lowering the quality of my work.
I hope what you are saying is true cuz boii I love your work it's just people are frustrated cuz when u started out you where pretty fast 1 update bimonthly and plus you were criticizing LnP for being fing slow but now you are even slower than him I really hope it can change cuz your game deserves a lot more support than its already getting
 

AlfredBundy4

Member
Feb 12, 2021
419
1,183
More or less.


This type of creative work is not as methodical as stitching boots or something. There are days when I make 10 renders, there are days when I make 1. And there are days when I make 5 and then scrap them all, because I don't like how a scene feels.
I see that I have one scene left, and I'm like "OK, two weeks should be enough and it's all ready." But then I start working, things aren't clicking and I make little progress. Then I see that the scene needs a branching to better account for previous choices, and decide that I should do it. And that can double, even triple the work needed. So it's a week later, and instead of needing two more to finish the scene, I need 6.
That's why I try not to give any release dates or projections. But I keep failing when people keep asking.


People want to support me, they do. It's completely optional. I appreciate the financial support, and I need it to put food on my table, pay for assets, software and hardware. But I don't change my creative decisions based on the amount of money I make.


I used to visit the topic more often to get feedback, but at some point I got tired of reading the same posts and arguments about milking, and being lazy, and stupid patrons, and all that. I barely get any actual game feedback here, unless it's next to an update release, so there's little reason to visit.

You wrongly assume that game developers need these piracy forums to advertise their games. You'll be doing the "advertisement" for me, with or without my presence here.
Sincerely, this is all I want to hear from a dev. Their general work flow/pace and that money helps but it changes nothing about their desire or vision.

Too many devs outright bullshit people. I can take a slow pace if they are just honest about it. Just say that some days I work on it, some I don't. Some days things go well, some days they don't.

Finally, I respect the fuck out of saying that your vision for a story is your vision. Too many times I've seen devs get a bit of financial support and then change their obvious vision to what the supporters want.
No, make YOUR vision. Betray your audience if you must. Anything but pander to the masses if it goes against what you want to make.

Frankly, I respect everything you wrote here and more devs need to follow suit. It's the exact mentality I have and will have once I have the equipment to start making my own VNs. I'm a GPU away as I already know Python and have a bit of experience with 3D software. When I get started, I'm making what I want to make and at the pace I can make it. Support me if you want, if not I hope you still enjoy. We share that mentality and any other is just wrong, IMO.

As said, if the pace bothers people they'll stop supporting you.
There is only one project that I outright tell people to stop supporting because the dev is an obvious, blatant liar. He's lazy, gets too much money and lies to his supporters.
This isn't that situation at all. I may wish that you worked at a faster pace but the fact that you're honest instead of making up bullshit makes me respect ya.

Keep up the good work and you're about to add another supporter soon!
 

Fzk

Newbie
Jun 18, 2019
75
66
Pretty much the only way to speed up the development speed is to cut down on the technical quality of the graphics.
You do really quality work, I can't criticize you on this subject, but I think growing the team can accelerate you even more. And to proceed with a plan, of course, this is just a suggestion, I don't know if your budget is enough for this economically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stoper

Alea iacta est

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2019
1,855
4,578
More or less.


This type of creative work is not as methodical as stitching boots or something. There are days when I make 10 renders, there are days when I make 1. And there are days when I make 5 and then scrap them all, because I don't like how a scene feels.
I see that I have one scene left, and I'm like "OK, two weeks should be enough and it's all ready." But then I start working, things aren't clicking and I make little progress. Then I see that the scene needs a branching to better account for previous choices, and decide that I should do it. And that can double, even triple the work needed. So it's a week later, and instead of needing two more to finish the scene, I need 6.
That's why I try not to give any release dates or projections. But I keep failing when people keep asking.


People want to support me, they do. It's completely optional. I appreciate the financial support, and I need it to put food on my table, pay for assets, software and hardware. But I don't change my creative decisions based on the amount of money I make.


I used to visit the topic more often to get feedback, but at some point I got tired of reading the same posts and arguments about milking, and being lazy, and stupid patrons, and all that. I barely get any actual game feedback here, unless it's next to an update release, so there's little reason to visit.

You wrongly assume that game developers need these piracy forums to advertise their games. You'll be doing the "advertisement" for me, with or without my presence here.
If you make accessible your GitHub or whatever source control you use, dashboard, everybody will be more than happy, they can see progress and effort put in it.
 

McZoy

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
591
1,080
Dear Stoper

I am great fan of your work but I can accept your excuses, only if you consider your self as an amateur adult game dev. Unfortunately with around 2 updates per year we can not expect your project to finish in the visuable future.

Kind regards
 

mma456

Member
Dec 2, 2018
332
1,313
I don't plan every scene in detail beforehand, I start making a scene and go with the flow.
That sounds wrong on so many levels, no matter the field of work some sort of groundwork or blueprint is required to begin working on any project unless you want to be stuck in development hell forever.
Even in the art field you will never see any kind of artist make any illustration or comic without laying down any sort of basic sketch or paneling draft, if artists thought of directly making a full fledged illustration or comic without any thought or process behind it then they would keep on scratching anything that they don't like as they are stuck repeating the same mundane tasks with minimal final results and huge waste of time.
I sincerely hope that you are able to see such a big error and hopefully correct it for your own betterment.
 

armion82

Devoted Member
Mar 28, 2017
11,999
16,160
That sounds wrong on so many levels, no matter the field of work some sort of groundwork or blueprint is required to begin working on any project unless you want to be stuck in development hell forever.
Even in the art field you will never see any kind of artist make any illustration or comic without laying down any sort of basic sketch or paneling draft, if artists thought of directly making a full fledged illustration or comic without any thought or process behind it then they would keep on scratching anything that they don't like as they are stuck repeating the same mundane tasks with minimal final results and huge waste of time.
I sincerely hope that you are able to see such a big error and hopefully correct it for your own betterment.
You missed some key words in that sentence- "every" and "in detail".
 

homejorz

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2020
1,021
1,196
It is how I work. I don't plan every scene in detail beforehand, I start making a scene and go with the flow. So far I'm happy with the quality results, the quantity is lacking. It's the creative choice I've made. Just as you've made your choice on supporting me or not.
Much respect bro. Haters gonna hate. Really enjoy the quality of the game. Hope to see some Tommy stuff soon :D
 

Sorrow85

Engaged Member
Feb 17, 2020
2,518
18,431
Gabriela Mattress Wall 1b.jpg

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.




Hi, everyone.

I hope the new year is treating you well. Looking at the news it doesn't really seem like the world has gotten the news that it's 2022 and it's supposed to be better. But I'm sure that's just a little lag and the better will start happening any day now :)

Work is going well. I still have one branch on the last scene that irks me and doesn't feel good. But I'm pushing on and if I don't come up with something that I love, I'll just leave it as it is. I lost way too much time on it. There's still some rendering to do before the update is ready, but we're getting there.

Stay safe, and thanks for the support.

--------
 

Golden Trump

Member
Jul 8, 2021
432
1,506
View attachment 1589716

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.




Hi, everyone.

I hope the new year is treating you well. Looking at the news it doesn't really seem like the world has gotten the news that it's 2022 and it's supposed to be better. But I'm sure that's just a little lag and the better will start happening any day now :)

Work is going well. I still have one branch on the last scene that irks me and doesn't feel good. But I'm pushing on and if I don't come up with something that I love, I'll just leave it as it is. I lost way too much time on it. There's still some rendering to do before the update is ready, but we're getting there.

Stay safe, and thanks for the support.

--------
Subtle way of saying that update isn't coming even in January
 

PietruccioTheHilander

Forum Fanatic
Jul 17, 2019
5,441
13,028
View attachment 1589716

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.




Hi, everyone.

I hope the new year is treating you well. Looking at the news it doesn't really seem like the world has gotten the news that it's 2022 and it's supposed to be better. But I'm sure that's just a little lag and the better will start happening any day now :)

Work is going well. I still have one branch on the last scene that irks me and doesn't feel good. But I'm pushing on and if I don't come up with something that I love, I'll just leave it as it is. I lost way too much time on it. There's still some rendering to do before the update is ready, but we're getting there.

Stay safe, and thanks for the support.

--------
there is something wrong with this job
 
  • Like
Reactions: the3m_dude

Candy Suxx

Active Member
Oct 11, 2019
585
3,041
Subtle way of saying that update isn't coming even in January
Yep, many devs nowadays do this, whenever they can't get an update on time in order to make sure that their supporters don't get pissed off they keep on giving them these small lollipops to keep them happy and divert their attention from the main thing , its either this or comes a bullshit excuse , like it isn't their fault but of the translator or suddenly their pc got blown up at the end moment or sometimes its the fault of the game's engine bla bla bla.
 
Last edited:

Candy Suxx

Active Member
Oct 11, 2019
585
3,041
Yep, many devs nowadays do this, whenever they can't get an update on time in order to make sure that their supporters don't get pissed off they keep on giving them these small lollipops to keep them happy and divert their attention from the main thing , its either this or comes a bullshit excuse , like it isn't their fault but of the translator or suddenly their pc got blown up at the end moment or sometimesit the fault of the game's engine bla bla bla.
To be frank I am not much of a supporter, till now I have supported only 4 devs two of them were a huge mistake (ICSTOR and Irpheaus) glad I realised it soon enough and stopped it but the other two have never disappointed me . Never has it happened till now that an update has been delayed or a bullshit excuse is given and one of them is DPC which of course everyone knows who he is and the other is Dream Now who provides the updates every month with zero delays. These are people I would gladly spend my money on.
 

PietruccioTheHilander

Forum Fanatic
Jul 17, 2019
5,441
13,028
To be frank I am not much of a supporter, till now I have supported only 4 devs two of them were a huge mistake (ICSTOR and Irpheaus) glad I realised it soon enough and stopped it but the other two have never disappointed me . Never has it happened till now that an update has been delayed or a bullshit excuse is given and one of them is DPC which of course everyone knows who he is and the other is Dream Now who provides the updates every month with zero delays. These are people I would gladly spend my money on.
I'm certainly not on the same level as graphics, but I don't want to start another war
 
4.10 star(s) 186 Votes