VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Stan5851]

"As a dom player", as if playing a game should classify the player on one side or the other. I really don't understand this way of thinking.

I try and play everything in this game because it's fucking great, the amount of roleplaying possibilities is amazing. The success comes from this, not one kink or the other.

Everyone's criteria for a game's success are different. For me, the success of KG is (first of all) a deep and very well-developed plot, in fact, a full-fledged Book that hooks you and doesn't let you forget about it, charismatic characters, each of whom is a separate universe with their own skeletons in the wardrobe, interesting dialogues, often hiding a lot of secrets and meanings, as well as a tangle of unsolved intrigues and mysteries, with Kane at the centre of them. And yes, there's some great stuff in here too, such as domination and other fetishes/kinks.

As for femdom, as I've written before, it's just not my cup of tea. I don't mind when those kinds of interactions happen with NPС (which is what we see in KG), but not with my MC. So in a way I envy switch players who go through the game for both sides and enjoy it, but I'm not going to step on my own throat just to see all of the game's content. So to each their own.

 

[YuNobi1]

"As a dom player", as if playing a game should classify the player on one side or the other. I really don't understand this way of thinking.

I try and play everything in this game because it's fucking great, the amount of roleplaying possibilities is amazing. The success comes from this, not one kink or the other.

Most people aren't wired to "have a foot in both ponds", and while some decisions in a choice-based game can be changed over replays (or go counter in an early decision because they know it's necessary to get the content that they really want), players will still be moored to their general preferences. Even Tess has compared this game to Mass Effect, and the fan base sticks to either a mainly Paragon or mainly Renegade style of play, even on replays, few players will replay just to see the opposite choices, and even fewer will actually enjoy playing both sides. If playing alternate style bores/disgusts you out of your mind, then you're only hurting yourself, and thus your enjoyment of the game, and thereby the devs success in making a successful product, by continuing to play that which you loathe. I explored alternate routes in this game and while I can't critique Tess' breadth of imagination, I can't call any of it "good" because I did not like/enjoy any of it, so I'm not doing it again.

 

[Bulletproof 2301]

Will Android version releases in the upcoming update??

 

[Mwanted]

Everyone's criteria for a game's success are different. For me, the success of KG is (first of all) a deep and very well-developed plot, in fact, a full-fledged Book that hooks you and doesn't let you forget about it, charismatic characters, each of whom is a separate universe with their own skeletons in the wardrobe, interesting dialogues, often hiding a lot of secrets and meanings, as well as a tangle of unsolved intrigues and mysteries, with Kane at the centre of them. And yes, there's some great stuff in here too, such as domination and other fetishes/kinks.

As for femdom, as I've written before, it's just not my cup of tea. I don't mind when those kinds of interactions happen with NPС (which is what we see in KG), but not with my MC. So in a way I envy switch players who go through the game for both sides and enjoy it, but I'm not going to step on my own throat just to see all of the game's content. So to each their own.

Then I misunderstood you, sorry. I thought you were like some people here saying that if you like x kink that you are like that IRL. Which is stupid, oc. You are talking about personal preference, which is absolutely correct. I also share what you think about the reasons about this game success.

As for my personal preference, I like to experiment and I always loved ropleplaying (not to mention the naughty one ), so usually I can switch\have fun in many different playthroughs. That said, there are of course the bits I don't like, like some the extremes in femdom for example. Now that I think about it, one of the reasons I especially like to play every path Tess developed is because I didn't find those extremes (that I would find disgusting or similar).

 

[Maviarab]

Perhaps someone can refer me to a previous post regarding my concern.

WTF doesn't the MC refer to the sisters with the Mistress title? Everyone excluding the MC's sister does so, except high ranking clients. Everytime the MC refers to one of the Board by name without the honorific, it's off putting. I'm not directing this solely towards the submissive route. I'm saying the MC starts out no better than a slave and is working his way up, HOWEVER he's still FAR from having his freedom and being on their level.

This has been a WF rant. Please continue with your regularly scheduled posting. Thank you.

I completely agree. It actually annoys me that at times he seems to be incredibly flippant with certain people and the only one time it is brought up is on first evaluation where Chanel (dom path) corrects him when he tells Olivia...'sure thing'....he addresses the sisters by their name (which is fine in private)...but it does surprise me he is never shot down for his 'insolence'...it actually makes me cringe at times how he is and when he is not corrected for it (given the story setting). Pissed me off even more when Olivia meets Katsumi to see a game show room and twice she calls her Olivia instead of Mistress. Olivia should really have shot her down in flames there given what has happened before, especially with Seth.

"As a dom player", as if playing a game should classify the player on one side or the other. I really don't understand this way of thinking.

I try and play everything in this game because it's fucking great, the amount of roleplaying possibilities is amazing. The success comes from this, not one kink or the other.

Very few people are switches, very few. Personally, I don't understand how anyone can be...sure, it's wise to be able to identify with both to have a greater understadning of your dominant or submissive role. but I don't really understand the mindset..but that's a side debate.

At the end of the day, I have zero interest in the submissive path. At all. I'm playing it for two reasons, one to just see the content the developer has worked hard on and two (and the most important) to ensure I have all the information and context within the story as you can miss a lot of context only playing one path.

I despise the sub path though, I am a dominant of close to 30 years now...I am not submissive, I will never be submissive and I will never switch and the vast majority never switch, because being dominant or submissive is a state of being...existing...it's not something you just turn on or off like a 'switch'. It's just something within you. People are, naturally either dominant or submissive, especially sexually.

So no, the success does not come from all the possibilities (though that helps), but I think you will find the vast majority of KG players do not play both paths, or if they do, they do so begrudgingly (like myself) purely for extra content of the overreaching story and plot.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Yea, Tess was sneaky enough to put secret information in both paths so if you want the full story, you gonna have to play the full game. If not, rely on other players to fill in the gaps.

As for tess removing demon/demoness, I imagine the only thing that really changes is that Kane and Olivia don't go around killing red shirts. Doubt it affects the overall picture

 

[Maviarab]

Yea, Tess was sneaky enough to put secret information in both paths so if you want the full story, you gonna have to play the full game. If not, rely on other players to fill in the gaps

Yup...and that is why I am taking one for the dom team hehehe...you all owe me copious amounts of coffee afterwards

 

[Mwanted]

Very few people are switches, very few. Personally, I don't understand how anyone can be...sure, it's wise to be able to identify with both to have a greater understadning of your dominant or submissive role. but I don't really understand the mindset..but that's a side debate.

You don't *have to* identify in anything, it's a game.. you are outside of the freaking game.
That's exacly what I meant when I said I don't understand when people don't get that
You can have preferences of course, but there's no other obligations required
So no, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people that can play a game without identifying themselves in the MC.

 

[Maviarab]

You don't *have to* identify in anything, it's a game.. you are outside of the freaking game.
That's exacly what I meant when I said I don't understand when people don't get that
You can have preferences of course, but there's no other obligations required
So no, there's plenty of people that can play a game without identifying themselves in the MC.

Identifying with the MC is completely irelevent,...and that is what you are missing (and I sure as hell don't identify with our MC in KG because at times he's an utter fucking clueless moron). Do you watch femdom porn? No different to a VN if you are not self-inserting.

So yes, content is paramount and the only thing that matters, if you can't 'identify' with the protaganist/setting/content of any type of media, be it a VN, Film, TV show, book...you're just not going to get enjoyment out of it. I don't watch period drama's because they just literally do nothing for me at all. Likewise, I will never watch femdom porn...which leads us back to certain paths in KG because people who are diametrically opposite something themselves will never enjoy content of the opposite.

So yes, it really is everything.

 

[Mwanted]

Identifying with the MC is completely irelevent,...and that is what you are missing (and I sure as hell don't identify with our MC in KG because at times he's an utter fucking clueless moron). Do you watch femdom porn? No different to a VN if you are not self-inserting.

So yes, content is paramount and the only thing that matters, if you can't 'identify' with the protaganist/setting/content of any type of media, be it a VN, Film, TV show, book...you're just not going to get enjoyment out of it. I don't watch period drama's because they just literally do nothing for me at all. Likewise, I will never watch femdom porn...which leads us back to certain paths in KG because people who are diametrically opposite something themselves will never enjoy content of the opposite.

So yes, it really is everything.

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying (video)games it's like I said.

 

[Maviarab]

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying games it's like I said.

We shall have to very much agree to disagree then..

 

[lemonfreak]

We shall have to very much agree to disagree then..

You could do that but that's really just a way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong but we're going to stop talking about it"

Instead you could try accepting that the way you experience the work is not the only way to do so, that those of us who can play through a story from a god's eye perspective, get just as much from it as those who need to inhabit the character (which you don't) or identify with a route (which you seem to) and that these differences are equally valid

 

[Maviarab]

You could do that but that's really just a way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong but we're going to stop talking about it"

Instead you could try accepting that the way you experience the work is not the only way to do so, that those of us who can play through a story from a god's eye perspective, get just as much from it as those who need to inhabit the character (which you don't) or identify with a route (which you seem to) and that these differences are equally valid

Profiling me are we?

No, it's me saying we will have to disgree, nothing more, nothing less and continuing the back and forth will get neither of us anywhere, so better to just leave it. I could add that if he was an actual dominant or submissive (neither of which are actually in KG anyway) then he he would understood with perfect clarity. But he isn't, so he won't.

So I do accept how he see's things and they differ from how I do. So agreeing to disagree because carrying on is futile. Would you have preferred it if I said we're never going to see each other's perspective so perhaps better to leave this subject? Would that have made you feel any less superior in trying to call me out?

Anything else you would like to try and interject?

 

[Stan5851]

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying (video)games it's like I said.

Let's go in order.
1. AVNs are generally not RPGs, and I believe that role-playing in such games is a matter of personal preference and generally not necessary at all. (imo)

2. However, therein lies the problem. Even if you try to play 3rd person in an AVN game (even with a female protagonist!) and be some sort of invisible observer of the MC's fate, it's still very hard to give up ownership of what happens to your character. You can't cut off empathy, compassion, anger, joy, and other feelings and emotions with a knife and just be the "cool unemotional guy from
Equilibrium" from beginning to end.

And that means that one way or another you will react to what happens to your MC, and that's where your true feelings will come to the surface, which you won't be able to drown out with the soothing mantra - "but I'm just an observer", because even while observing and not getting into the character, the player is still worried about what's going on. Because you control him, you are responsible for what he will choose and how he will act.... and that bond cannot be broken on every emotional and mental level. Yeah, like Maviarab, I don't identify with KaneDom either, because he does act like a chump and even a jerk at times... BUT! He's MY chump and MY jerk!... and I don't want him humiliated by some leather clad bitch who was lucky enough to be born with a golden spoon up her arse.

You can call it "identification" or whatever you want, but I don't see how it's possible (for me) to sit on two chairs at once, and my deeper self invariably started protesting vigorously even when I was just running a couple of sub-scenes with Kane via Sancho Mod Gallery (to find out more about his real sister). So here I tend to agree with Maviarab that without a connection to the character (even if only on a subconscious level) you just don't get any enjoyment.

 

[gregers]

Being dominant or submissive is a state of being...existing...it's not something you just turn on or off like a 'switch'. It's just something within you. People are, naturally either dominant or submissive, especially sexually.

That's just plain wrong. Tastes can and do change over time. I was heavily into femdom (as well as femsub) when I was younger, probably what one'd call a switch, but these days my tastes usually don't run in that direction any longer.

... Mass Effect, and the fan base sticks to either a mainly Paragon or mainly Renegade style of play, even on replays, few players will replay just to see the opposite choices, and even fewer will actually enjoy playing both sides.

Reasonable people can disagree about dom, sub, or vanilla, no accounting for taste.

But anyone playing Mass Effect: The Proper Ones as anything other than Renegade FemShep Vanguard is just obscenely wrong, perverted, and should probably be locked up at minimum, to protect Society and The Children.

 

[Sharpshooter890]

I try to play through all the routes for the sake of story, but most of them don't resonate with me. For example, being cruel to Amy or checking out K1 and subK5 is not something I enjoy or even like, but I can tolerate it just fine, because I don't relate to MC on those routes. He's like a test subject in an experiment, nothing more.
The same holds true for normal games, like Mass Effect or KotoR - my Shepard would never screw Wrex in ME3 or shoot Mordin, but a test Shep might.

 

[actoreg]

yep looks like we're losing the evil path

It would be very bad.
(Mostly playing dom Kane with most evil choices for him and for Olivia)

 

[Mr. Chatty]

It would be very bad.
(Mostly playing dom Kane with most evil choices for him and for Olivia)

On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad would it be?

 

[Bloker997]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad would it be?

like 2,5

 

[SubFork]

Sub fork