VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Zenith_11]

I know that the removal of the extreme evil will primarily affect the extreme scenes with Kane and Olivia(demon & demoness path). So there will still be a good amount of dom/evil content remaining. I don't mind losing the content with Olivia that much tbh since I am doing a Juliette route. How will the Kane's interactions with her change?

Will Juliette scenes be watered down to be more vanilla? Will her scenes rewritten as a result of this change?

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[Maviarab]

I know that the removal of the extreme evil will primarily affect the extreme scenes with Kane and Olivia(demon & demoness path). So there will still be a good amount of dom/evil content remaining. I don't mind losing the content with Olivia that much tbh since I am doing a Juliette route. How will the Kane's interactions with her change?

Will Juliette scenes be watered down to be more vanilla? Will her scenes rewritten as a result of this change?

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Unlikely. IF...if...the extreme gets removed (which is/was/would be flagged by the demon flags) then the rest will not change. The evil path is staying...she has not once mentioned dropping it. Just the stuff connected to the three demon flags which is the extreme extreme shizz. That stuff is the stuff causing her issues with a minority obsessive and overzealous fans.

 

[Zenith_11]

Unlikely. IF...if...the extreme gets removed (which is/was/would be flagged by the demon flags) then the rest will not change. The evil path is staying...she has not once mentioned dropping it. Just the stuff connected to the three demon flags which is the extreme extreme shizz. That stuff is the stuff causing her issues with a minority obsessive and overzealous fans.

That's good to hear! I guess if this change happens my playthrough won't be affected then.

 

[Maviarab]

That's good to hear! I guess if this change happens my playthrough won't be affected then.

Yeah I mean it would be a shame, I have a save just for that...but if it goes it goes...*shrugs*...hardly the end of the world to me. So we'll just have 14 endings instead...woe is us lol.

 

[Jan23489]

It's not a normal save (with position information etc), basically the game takes the values of all relevant variables (good/evil, names, flags from decisions etc) of the currently running game and stores them in one of 8 containers in a file called Karlssons.gambit.s1 in the persistent directory of your (system-dependent) renpy folder.

Thanks! So does the Sancho-modded game also use this file or where else are transfer values stored for that modded game version?

And more interestingly, how to read values from those containers and modify them? I see some strings saying "gameSave" followed by a number so those should mark the end of each containers. Savededitor.com does not recognize the file structure, unfortunately.

 

[Stan5851]

Thanks! So does the Sancho-modded game also use this file or where else are transfer values stored for that modded game version?

And more interestingly, how to read values from those containers and modify them? I see some strings saying "gameSave" followed by a number so those should mark the end of each containers. Savededitor.com does not recognize the file structure, unfortunately.

And what's the point of creating problems for yourself if you can just resave any data container (Ep7->Ep8 pt1 test) and thus get a fully editable save..

 

[Jan23489]

And what's the point of creating problems for yourself if you can just resave any data container (Ep7->Ep8 pt1 test) and thus get a fully editable save..

Well, you are right. I had thought about this, too. The rationale for wanting to modify the actual "transferred values" is that these are likely to be used in Episode 8 whereas the Episode-7-saves contain some 680 - probably mostly irrelevant - values (I just checked that number).

It would be great to have a list of carried-over-values that are in use Episode 8. And this ought to be a subset of the values in that transferred data container.

 

[Sancho1969]

It would be great to have a list of carried-over-values that are in use Episode 8. And this ought to be a subset of the values in that transferred data container.

I can provide that... but you must understand that Ep8 "Test" doesn't use all of them...yet. Nothing is to say that any or all of the transferred vars won't be used at some point in the future "Final" of Ep8.

 

[Jan23489]

I can provide that... but you must understand that Ep8 doesn't use all of them...yet. Nothing is to say that any or all of the transferred vars won't be used at some point in the future. If the VN was finished then obviously this would be easy-peasy for me to sort for you.

Well yeah, a list of that carried over values would be wonderful. My practical problem is that in my Episode-7-saves I lost track which game paths are saved where and I would rather just generate fresh saves, thus not missing anything in the current (episode 8) content.

 

[Sancho1969]

Well yeah, a list of that carried over values would be wonderful. My practical problem is that in my Episode-7-saves I lost track which game paths are saved where and I would rather just generate fresh saves, thus not missing anything in the current (episode 8) content.

Well that's different. Just use my outline from post here. You don't need to know all the hundreds of vars... just which particular paths/forks I outline... much easier to handle that way (and saves me from doing double-work).

 

[fatki_chaddi]

@TessSadist and @Sancho1969

Can something like a questionnaire be added at the beginning of each new release? Asking what choices one made in the past episodes before starting the new content. This will help players with their playthroughs while selecting different choices.

An example that comes to mind is 'Fashion Business' they do it well.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

@TessSadist and @Sancho1969

Can something like a questionnaire be added at the beginning of each new release? Asking what choices one made in the past episodes before starting the new content. This will help players with their playthroughs while selecting different choices.

An example that comes to mind is 'Fashion Business' they do it well.

Not Sancho's game, he does the walkthroughs and tess likely wont do that either, she has enough on her plate without adding that option

 

[Bulletproof 2301]

Can someone send me the discord link please.. The one in the above is broken

 

[fatki_chaddi]

Not Sancho's game, he does the walkthroughs and tess likely wont do that either, she has enough on her plate without adding that option

Yes, that's true, but if either can add that it would be helpful.

I marked Sancho1969 here because I think he can do it via the mod, since he is already aware of the flags and code variables. (But that's me just assuming. )

wishful thinking

 

[Sancho1969]

@TessSadist and @Sancho1969

Can something like a questionnaire be added at the beginning of each new release? Asking what choices one made in the past episodes before starting the new content. This will help players with their playthroughs while selecting different choices.

An example that comes to mind is 'Fashion Business' they do it well.

Your asking for a lot of work from one of us to eliminate you being lazy by not playing a desired path in Season 1... ain't it?

Now, I don't have any problems making SanchoCheats for new vars (as I've always done in the past with this VN and others) that I can insure are coded safely as to not bork you present/future saves... and I even add CriticalChoice screens when major events are about to occur... but many of the hundreds of vars simply change some dialogue here and there to date... most major forks regarding Sponsorships, etc I've already addressed in the mod.

All that said, what specifically are you wanting to change in Season 2 that you feel all this merits so much work to be done by someone else? If it's minor then I'm not interested tbh, if it's major then I might consider it, but you could easily simply export your desired save data from Season 1 and do what you seek so I'm trying to figure out what your true intention is.

Please elaborate a bit for the request you are presenting... otherwise I have no idea whether it's worth spending hours of my time to fulfill or even consider tbh.

Regards.

 

[Maviarab]

Yes, that's true, but if either can add that it would be helpful.

I marked Sancho1969 here because I think he can do it via the mod, since he is already aware of the flags and code variables. (But that's me just assuming. )

wishful thinking

So you're just lazy...or can't even be assed creating a simple notepad of what you chose? Or even playing one save...then using URM yourself to change all the flags and variables you want to create other saves?


Shall we play for it for you too?

Well yeah, a list of that carried over values would be wonderful. My practical problem is that in my Episode-7-saves I lost track which game paths are saved where and I would rather just generate fresh saves, thus not missing anything in the current (episode 8) content.

You realise there are flags set in literally the second episode that have not been used yet right? For the rest, read my post to the guy I quoted above your quote.

And gentlemen, I would perhaps in the future keep a record somewhere if you have so many diff saves you can't remember what they all do. Or when i post my excel sheet, you can keep a handy record yourself (using my time to create it) that exists outside of the game, then should you wish to double check/change anything in a save, you know exactly what flags have been set.

 

[fatki_chaddi]

Your asking for a lot of work from one of us to eliminate you being lazy by not playing a desired path in Season 1... ain't it?

Now, I don't have any problems making SanchoCheats for new vars (as I've always done in the past with this VN and others) that I can insure are coded safely as to not bork you present/future saves... and I even add CriticalChoice screens when major events are about to occur... but many of the hundreds of vars simply change some dialogue here and there to date... most major forks regarding Sponsorships, etc I've already addressed in the mod.

All that said, what specifically are you wanting to change in Season 2 that you feel all this merits so much work to be done by someone else? If it's minor then I'm not interested tbh, if it's major then I might consider it, but you could easily simply export your desired save data from Season 1 and do what you seek so I'm trying to figure out what your true intention is.

Please elaborate a bit for the request you are presenting... otherwise I have no idea whether it's worth spending hours of my time to fulfill or even consider tbh.

Regards.

Thanks for replying.

What I am suggesting is that, a few questions at the beginning of a new release that one can use to replay the game
i.e,

(This is an example)
EPISODE 4:
Three beginnings: Your rank carried over from Episode 3 will determine one of three starts.
$ k4 (Rank K4) → K4 start scenes
$ k5 (Rank K5) → K5 start scenes
$ k6 (Rank K6) → K6 start scenes

The question can be

• "What K rank did the MC achieve in the previous episode?"
  • as a player can then select the desired K rank for the new playthrough.

Next questions can be choice split.

Question Example :

• Who punished the prisoner Patricia or Samantha?
• MC Received sponsorship from Veronica, Juliette or Dominique in chapter 3.
• Did the MC choose Chanel or Junko (In the spa)
• Did Olivia tell Kiyomi to treat Kane the exact same as everyone else in the program?
• Is Olivia on the evilpolice track or neutralpolice track.

etc....

The request was not about being lazy but simply to explore every nook and cranny without having to start from beginning and going through the common stuff repeatedly for each K rank and the different choices within those.

 

[Maviarab]

Thanks for replying.

What I am suggesting is that, a few questions at the beginning of a new release that one can use to replay the game
i.e,

(This is an example)
EPISODE 4:
Three beginnings: Your rank carried over from Episode 3 will determine one of three starts.
$ k4 (Rank K4) → K4 start scenes
$ k5 (Rank K5) → K5 start scenes
$ k6 (Rank K6) → K6 start scenes

The question can be

• "What K rank did the MC achieve in the previous episode?"
  • as a player can then select the desired K rank for the new playthrough.

Next questions can be choice split.

Question Example :

• Who punished the prisoner Patricia or Samantha?
• MC Received sponsorship from Veronica, Juliette or Dominique in chapter 3.
• Did the MC choose Chanel or Junko (In the spa)
• Did Olivia tell Kiyomi to treat Kane the exact same as everyone else in the program?
• Is Olivia on the evilpolice track or neutralpolice track.

etc....

The request was not about being lazy but simply to explore every nook and cranny without having to start from beginning and going through the common stuff repeatedly for each K rank and the different choices within those.

I know what you're asking and you're not going to get it.

By the time it took you to answer all the damn questions that would be actually be required, you could have just skipped through the content (it takes 15 to 20 mins btw by my estimation making my new saves)....

15 fucking minutes of your time. There are far too many variables affecting dialogue, scenes, and a whole boat-load of other stuff (going back to the second release) that have not even been referenced yet in-game, such as GambitPlayer. It would take hours to do what you want...and probably 10 minutes for you to actually answer all the damn questions (if you could even remember, which you can't...so you're point is completely moot isn't it as you won't remember what half of those choices were actually for, why you made them, or what they affect anyway). Points are also incredibly important at times in terms of triggering or missing a scene. And those don't all come from the major decisions.

So load up the VN, spend 15 minutes of your life making a new save and as I said before, I suggest making a note somewhere (we're in twenty twenty fecking four btw), you don't even need a piece of paper, (which is how we used to make notes on shit in games 40 years ago), there are about 5000 different programs around to choose, so you won't forget what choices you made again

In fact, by the time you been wittering on here, you could have already made 2 new saves

And because I'm nice....to just to show how ridiculous what you're asking is, here's some stats for you that would all need taking into account:

Kane: 108 flags, 25 different character (_p) points (some not even referenced yet)
Olivia: 36 flags, 9 different character (_p) points
Seth: 2 flags, 2 different character (_p) points


19 misc point variables between KaneLivia (such as cunning, Gambit Queen, Princess Eyes etc etc that would all have to be calculated), with approximately another 15-20 set of points/variables (some temporary) that decide certain events (like who meet first etc) with many of these not even implemented/referenced yet. (Add in things like Evil points, where literally 1 point can can completely skip a scene and block content/other variables).

And that...is just to the end of episode 6!!! (still working on my sheet for Ep7).

Exactly in your mind...how many questions at the start of Ep8 do you think it would take? Seriously...tell me, really curious as to what you think.

(Attached image of my save sheet. Still a WIP as fully go through Ep7 again. Again, will upload once I have everything in order re my prevous post here: SaveSheet/Timeline/Character List) Hoping to have this done up to the end of Ep7 by weekend for those who may find it useful.

 

[Sancho1969]

Thanks for replying.

What I am suggesting is that, a few questions at the beginning of a new release that one can use to replay the game
i.e,

(This is an example)
EPISODE 4:
Three beginnings: Your rank carried over from Episode 3 will determine one of three starts.
$ k4 (Rank K4) → K4 start scenes
$ k5 (Rank K5) → K5 start scenes
$ k6 (Rank K6) → K6 start scenes

The question can be

• "What K rank did the MC achieve in the previous episode?"
  • as a player can then select the desired K rank for the new playthrough.

Next questions can be choice split.

Question Example :

• Who punished the prisoner Patricia or Samantha?
• MC Received sponsorship from Veronica, Juliette or Dominique in chapter 3.
• Did the MC choose Chanel or Junko (In the spa)
• Did Olivia tell Kiyomi to treat Kane the exact same as everyone else in the program?
• Is Olivia on the evilpolice track or neutralpolice track.

etc....

The request was not about being lazy but simply to explore every nook and cranny without having to start from beginning and going through the common stuff repeatedly for each K rank and the different choices within those.

Well... you're asking for a complete skip of Season 1 basically. This imposes many many issues. There are rookie coders that would think "no problem, ask the questions and simply mark those vars True/False" but that would be a MASSIVE mistake (especially regarding Dom/Sub and some particular K-Levels for example).

Why? To answer completely it's a wall of text so I'm placing it in a spoiler container below out of respect of others would could care less regarding this topic we are discussing.

Spoiler: A few things to consider why this is a bad idea imho

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I know there's something in this that just begs someone quickly quoting or replying to... but I ask that you not only read the post but ponder/think about what I'm actually saying by demonstration.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do anything and everything... and making a generalized questionaire then simply changing a few basics of the major forking path vars will NOT get the result you are seeking, unlike VN's with a basic Relp/Path conditional architecture. Anyone on the planet that tells you otherwise is a either a fool or naive to how these complex VN's actually function imho. As proof of this point think about how many so called "modders" attempt to make a VN "harem" even on simplistic VN's that eventually totally fuck up everyone's save files and/or completely break the game eventually. You've all seen it.

To summarize:
So, can I do it by offering a lengthy S1 questionaire that covers all the bases and code it correctly? Yes, of course. But the effort versus simply speedrunning S1 is all but futile. Hopefully the above fully explains this summary... and I apologize for it being a wall of text but feel it's important to actually explain the issue(s) fully.

Edit: I guess during the time it took me to write this post Maviarab said basically the same thing but differently.

 

[fatki_chaddi]

Well... you're asking for a complete skip of Season 1 basically. This imposes many many issues. There are rookie coders that would think "no problem, ask the questions and simply mark those vars True/False" but that would be a MASSIVE mistake (especially regarding Dom/Sub and some particular K-Levels for example).

Why? To answer completely it's a wall of text so I'm placing it in a spoiler container below out of respect of others would could care less regarding this topic we are discussing.

Spoiler: A few things to consider why this is a bad idea imho

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I know there's something in this that just begs someone quickly quoting or replying to... but I ask that you not only read the post but ponder/think about what I'm actually saying by demonstration.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do anything and everything... and making a generalized questionaire then simply changing a few basics of the major forking path vars will NOT get the result you are seeking, unlike VN's with a basic Relp/Path conditional architecture. Anyone on the planet that tells you otherwise is a either a fool or naive to how these complex VN's actually function imho. As proof of this point think about how many so called "modders" attempt to make a VN "harem" even on simplistic VN's that eventually totally fuck up everyone's save files and/or completely break the game eventually. You've all seen it.

To summarize:
So, can I do it by offering a lengthy S1 questionaire that covers all the bases and code it correctly? Yes, of course. But the effort versus simply speedrunning S1 is all but futile. Hopefully the above fully explains this summary... and I apologize for it being a wall of text but feel it's important to actually explain the issue(s) fully.

Edit: I guess during the time it took me to write this post Maviarab said basically the same thing but differently.

Absolutely it does. Thanks again for taking the time out and replying with reasons. It makes so much sense now.