VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[DoverDad]

Full poll results
I play the dom path, and love the extreme evil dom path and would be greatly upset losing it.
38


I play the dom path, and like the extreme evil path, absolutely would miss it.
67


I play the dom path and don't care too much about the extreme evil path. I won't miss it too much.
44


I play the dom path and prefer the good path.
47


I play the dom path and prefer a more normal/dominant harem/romance gaining power Kane without extreme evil.
97


I play dom path but primarily for secret sub path, but love the extreme evil path.
8


I play dom path but primarily for secret sub, but like the extreme evil path.
13


I play dom path but primarily for secret sub, don't care about extreme evil path.
18


I play dom path but primarily for secret sub, prefer good path.
19


I play dom path but primarily for secret sub, prefer normal assertive/dominant Kane gaining power/females path.
19


I play mostly/all sub path, but love the extreme evil dom path.
15


I play mostly/all sub path, but like the extreme evil dom path.
16


I play mostly/all sub path, but don't care about the extreme evil path.
25


I play mostly/all sub path, but prefer good dom path.
8


I play mostly/all sub path, but prefer normal Kane assertive/dominant harem/romance path.
13


I play mostly all/sub path, completely ignore the dom path except secret sub
37


I play mostly all/sub path, completely ignore dom path entirely.
23


Side ask from here o n down for research: I like the sub path, prefer more extreme content
59


I like the sub path, prefer a mix of extreme and gentle
72


I like the sub path, prefer a more gentle path generally
19

 

[Maviarab]

Are there overall more subs or doms?

If take the full poll..then it seems more doms at first glance.

Which, in all honesty, is not all that surprising. Because, and hear me out, while Tess is a dominatrix herself...this is actually only dressed up as a femdom game, where in reality, it actually isn't at all if you look at all the facts regarding what is probably going to be a logical cannon ending (leading to the next story) in that, a Good/Dom Olivia (and likely Kane also) will be the natural ending.

People may not like that...but there's too many dots connecting it. So while we have powerful and evil woman...and lots of femdom and a recognised sub path, the entire story/plot is really centered on a dom Kane (with Olivia) taking over the company....it's another sleight of hand by Tess, it really isn't a sub/femdom game at all in my opinion. I've made mention before that, a pure femdom game would have probably already been abandoned by now.

 

[Sharpshooter890]

The definition of evil is subjective though. For some, the sex scene with Phoebe is evil, while others have no problem with it. Same goes for torture/murder scenes. It can even feel right, not evil, if we think the victim deserved such harsh treatment. So such polls are very inaccurate by their nature, unless specific examples of what Tess considers 'evil' are presented clearly.

 

[YuNobi1]

Wooahh wait? Really??? I thought was Alessandra! Damn...now that makes my head spin.....

So red tips ninja is also Grym Gudina? Are we still assuming Alessandra is white tips? Why on earth would Patrica be talking to Veronica then....aaahhh....

NO SPOILERS (Ep. 1-7 info only): Why Alessandra CANNOT be Grym
Ep. 2 opens with Grym ordering Patricia to oversee K's training, but to "do things by the book," but Pat disobeys this order by first offering K the option to cheat (deal), and later following through by eliminating/mitigating the punishment, and offering sex. In Ep. 7, Pat says that she did everything A told her to do with K in the prison, but the deal/cheating was AGAINST Grym's orders, so if she did those things under A's orders, while disobeying Grym, then A cannot be Grym. Furthermore, her loyalty to A is actually no secret, as A brags to V about Pat's loyalty to her, and that Pat is "under control".

As for Pat listening to V, she's already doing that: she reports to V (while laying prostrate under V's heels) in Ep. 3, right in front of A, immediately before A confesses that Pat is under control, and following the airplane scene. Like all staff at KG, Pat has multiple (and often conflicting) loyalties: E, A, V, Kiyomi, and Grym. E rescued/raised her, A has "whipped" her, V was her boss in the prisons, and now again at the Joy Facility, with Kiyomi as her supervisor, so Grym is either just an additional loyalty on the pile, or one that's already there (A OR V).

I,m not convinced

Spoiler

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Does she call her grymm or is that an assumption cuz of the mask thing?

Masked lady in the temple and Masked lady near the boat are different ..
Masked lady in the temple is Grym Gudinna !

Spoiler: About Grym (Ep. 8 spoilers)

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[Kagarus]

The definition of evil is subjective though. For some, the sex scene with Phoebe is evil, while others have no problem with it. Same goes for torture/murder scenes. It can even feel right, not evil, if we think the victim deserved such harsh treatment. So such polls are very inaccurate by their nature, unless specific examples of what Tess considers 'evil' are presented clearly.

You mean like by specifying that the evil extreme path she's talking about is the demon+demoness path?

(Also an interesting example to bring up for subjective perception of evil as a communication issue, considering the option to initiate that particular scene is literally "(I think I can fuck her in front of her sick husband. I know it might be a bit cruel...but it might help me too to show how far I can go for clients. *warning evil evil evil be careful...*)", so it's pretty clearly communicated whether the author considers it evil or not. )

 

[Maviarab]

NO SPOILERS (Ep. 1-7 info only): Why Alessandra CANNOT be Grym
Ep. 2 opens with Grym ordering Patricia to oversee K's training, but to "do things by the book," but Pat disobeys this order by first offering K the option to cheat (deal), and later following through by eliminating/mitigating the punishment, and offering sex. In Ep. 7, Pat says that she did everything A told her to do with K in the prison, but the deal/cheating was AGAINST Grym's orders, so if she did those things under A's orders, while disobeying Grym, then A cannot be Grym. Furthermore, her loyalty to A is actually no secret, as A brags to V about Pat's loyalty to her, and that Pat is "under control".

I think you're missing something here, sorry. Pat can tell GG that she did everything she as asked...and still look out for her own interests and leave information out, which is why she makes a deal with Kane in the first place (or offers). We can also be pretty certain (though no idea why she went as well) that Alessa was with Pat when they stitched Rod up.

As for Pat listening to V, she's already doing that: she reports to V (while laying prostrate under V's heels) in Ep. 3, right in front of A, immediately before A confesses that Pat is under control, and following the airplane scene. Like all staff at KG, Pat has multiple (and often conflicting) loyalties: E, A, V, Kiyomi, and Grym. E rescued/raised her, A has "whipped" her, V was her boss in the prisons, and now again at the Joy Facility, with Kiyomi as her supervisor, so Grym is either just an additional loyalty on the pile, or one that's already there (A OR V).

Pat is just submitting to a higher authority...Alessa's sister...and a board member. Pat may not be the sharpest tool..but she is no fool. Even if she is completely loyal to Alessa, she will also do whatever the hell Veronica tells her to, especially if that's in front of Alessa as it's a joint order. Just because she is indirectly her head boss (head of prisons) doesn't mean her loyalty actually lies there. Elena also never rescued Pat. I doi sometimes wonder wtf you are on about and what's floating around in yoru head, because we're playing 2 different VN's.

I think you're reading way too much into that.

As for tips...you do remember there are 2 different mask/women...red tips and white tips. 2 very different people.

As for Alexander, he did not need to be on the board. Also, if he was the seventh, everyone knows (like, literally the entire world) Alexander is dead. So why say that member is away on a special assignment? Alexander was above the board...not on it. Also, if was a board member, he dead...so there would be no reason for Elena to resign from the board for Olivia to join. As for the rest...I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your thoughts. Again, Olivia knows everything...especially that she is a Karlsson before getting to the Joy Facility. Remember, ultimate best actor in the world. Trained and educated by the most brilliant women in the world (who knows all about Alexander's Gambit) and possibly even Alexander too.

Olivia is lying to everyone, bare faced, with consumate ease. She also knows she is being watched, recorded and rooms are bugged. Anything she says to or about Callista is a ruse. I'm also not entirely sure what your deffinition of 'poured over' is, as at the Zoo entry scene, Veronica stops N.O.A.H from saying her last name and Olivia litterally thinks to herself "Does she think I don't know I'm a Karlsson or does she not want Kane to know he's not my brother?" I don't know man, maybe we're reading different scripts

As a last thing, please start using people's names or at least an abbreviation. You might not want to type them out but it's godamn annoyingly infuritating keeping up with your posts using O, E, A etc etc.

You mean like by specifying that the evil extreme path she's talking about is the demon+demoness path?

(Also an interesting example to bring up for subjective perception of evil as a communication issue, considering the option to initiate that particular scene is literally "(I think I can fuck her in front of her sick husband. I know it might be a bit cruel...but it might help me too to show how far I can go for clients. *warning evil evil evil be careful...*)", so it's pretty clearly communicated whether the author considers it evil or not. )

Evil..not extreme kill people for the shits and giggles of it very painfully and slowly. There's a huge difference between morally evil content (Phoebe's scene)...and demon/demoness/demondompath content...a HUGE difference.

 

[Kagarus]

Evil..not extreme kill people for the shits and giggles of it very painfully and slowly. There's a huge difference between morally evil content (Phoebe's scene)...and demon/demoness/demondompath content...a HUGE difference.

Uh yeah? It was just an aside that using that scene as an example is amusing because the author's view was explicitly signposted

 

[Maviarab]

Uh yeah? It was just an aside that using that scene as an example is amusing because the author's view was explicitly signposted

Yeah I never understood why Tess put that there...the content itself is reletively tame really isn't it....the context however...poor Harry lol...

Still...be cucked and eat your wifes lovers cum...or suffocate in a glass crypt? Tough choices

 

[YuNobi1]

As for tips...you do remember there are 2 different mask/women...red tips and white tips. 2 very different people.

Seriously, where do people keep getting this from? Tess loves making frequent costume and jewelry changes, oftentimes with characters changing multiple times in a single day, so why wouldn't Grym have two of the same mask just different colors and slightly different ninja costumes? After all: Callista wears a pink mask with a white ensemble in Ep. 5, and a red mask with a black cloak and dark outfit in Eps. 6-8.

 

[ddaisy]

Without going into spoilery details, is survivalist sub strategy viable? I mean acting submissive not because you're weak like Zach but because you think it will benefit you in the long run?

Asking because whenever I come back to this game once in a while my playthrough tends to be determined by my Kane's initial ranking. If I get K5 I will continue rising up in the ranks even without acting particularly dominant, but if I get K4 I tend to stay close to that rank unless I intentionally mess up to get lower.

So, my question is, can you rise up as a K4 sub, or do you need to fight a little bit with Chanels and Delilahs to earn a promotion?

 

[Maviarab]

Seriously, where do people keep getting this from? Tess loves making frequent costume and jewelry changes, oftentimes with characters changing multiple times in a single day, so why wouldn't Grym have two of the same mask just different colors and slightly different ninja costumes? After all: Callista wears a pink mask with a white ensemble in Ep. 5, and a red mask with a black cloak and dark outfit in Eps. 6-8.

Everything Tess shows is by design. For me (and the fact nothing you have said so far actually 'proves' anything...just more supposition or we wouldn't be having this conversation right now)...the conversations, way they speak are two different people. To me. Also, masks to hide an identity are not the same as a change of clothes. as for the Queen..well, she the queen...not just someone reporting in.

I can see no logical reason why the same person would switch and change masks. Makes no sense. it does however make sense for the GQ to have them similar (in case ever spotted leaving the facility) but slightly different so Callista knows who is approaching (assuming it's not a pre-arranged 'appointment' and also assuming the two don't disclose to each other they are meeting Callista and swap, but why would they disclose that info to each other) but even in that unlikely eventuality, Callista would know from the way the walk (remember Kiyomi makes mention of this to Otto), the way they talk and if nothing else, their voice alone.

If Veronica is both, why was Kiyomi not at the temple meeting? Why would Veronica give Kane the encrypted bracelet? I have my assumptions why Alessa might, but Veronica? So you see, saying she is both just throws up more inconsistencies that can't really be logically accounted for (in my mind).

Without going into spoilery details, is survivalist sub strategy viable? I mean acting submissive not because you're weak like Zach but because you think it will benefit you in the long run?

Asking because whenever I come back to this game once in a while my playthrough tends to be determined by my Kane's initial ranking. If I get K5 I will continue rising up in the ranks even without acting particularly dominant, but if I get K4 I tend to stay close to that rank unless I intentionally mess up to get lower.

So, my question is, can you rise up as a K4 sub, or do you need to fight a little bit with Chanels and Delilahs to earn a promotion?

There is a very specific way to get to SubK6/7 I believe. Never done it msyelf...it's complicated as hell though. Start at K4, make sure you stay at K4, NEVER drop down....and follow the pdf walkthrough very...very carefully.

 

[Gamer8n8]

I really don't understand where everybody gets off saying that there are two masked figures.

Play again and closely follow scenes with 'Patricia conversation with grym in the vault about kane', scene with patricia veronica and alessa near the pool, temple scene conversation, scene with alessa and patricia in Ep7 !!
Anyway, we don't know anything for sure .. that is what we thinking !

 

[YuNobi1]

Everything Tess shows is by design. For me (and the fact nothing you have said so far actually 'proves' anything...just more supposition or we wouldn't be having this conversation right now)...the conversations, way they speak are two different people. To me. Also, masks to hide an identity are not the same as a change of clothes. as for the Queen..well, she the queen...not just someone reporting in.

I can see no logical reason why the same person would switch and change masks. Makes no sense. it does however make sense for the GQ to have them similar (in case ever spotted leaving the facility) but slightly different so Callista knows who is approaching (assuming it's not a pre-arranged 'appointment' and also assuming the two don't disclose to each other they are meeting Callista and swap, but why would they disclose that info to each other) but even in that unlikely eventuality, Callista would know from the way the walk (remember Kiyomi makes mention of this to Otto), the way they talk and if nothing else, their voice alone.

If Veronica is both, why was Kiyomi not at the temple meeting? Why would Veronica give Kane the encrypted bracelet? I have my assumptions why Alessa might, but Veronica? So you see, saying she is both just throws up more inconsistencies that can't really be logically accounted for (in my mind).


There is a very specific way to get to SubK6/7 I believe. Never done it msyelf...it's complicated as hell though. Start at K4, make sure you stay at K4, NEVER drop down....and follow the pdf walkthrough very...very carefully.

Which is more likely: 1 person buying the same mask/dress/hat/shirt/outfit type but in 2 different colors, because they like both, or 2 different people, unbeknownst to each other, buying near identical masks at completely different times, and the only difference between the 2 is the coloring? Outfit changes are one thing, but a lot of women like a "signature" jewelry set, yet count how often any of the sisters change their jewelry throughout the game, so if we both agree that everything Tess shows/changes is by design, then she's showing us that the Karlsson sisters never wear the same thing twice. If Tess wanted to show that these women are two separate people, and make it obviously so, then she wouldn't have used the exact same mask with shifted coloration (both use red, black, and white), whereas C's masks are also the same with different colors, and she obviously IS the same person.

Black and Red's dialogue styles aren't really different, yet V's vocal style also doesn't match Black, but Tess has revealed V = Black, so that piece of evidence is moot (I tried to use it in my 20-page thesis, but then Ep. 8 was released). At the temple, C belittles Red's costume, so 1) the costume was Red's idea, not C, so she didn't give Red/Black anything to wear and 2) C is NOT a fan of the disguise. C knows exactly who Red/Black is/are, and therefore she/they aren't hiding from her. Even if "the walk" would be different, Kiyomi also points out that there are only 2 people in the Joy Facility who would notice, so C might be like most and not catch the walk discrepancy, but again that point is moot regardless if Red/Black are the same or different people.

At the boat, C's comment about "I wasn't sure if it was you who was coming" was referring to Kiyomi, who does show up to that meeting, and we know is working with Otto/the revolution, and since C is the one who directs Nadia to read the bracelet she gives her, using Otto as her voice, we know that Kiyomi is working with C. Kiyomi isn't an associate of Red/Black, and therefore doesn't follows her around, she's another of C's agents, so she goes where C wants her. C obviously sent out a "general message" to find out about "the leak" that happened that morning, and was waiting for any of her agents to show up with information, but she was not expecting the one who actually did the leaking to come meet her (like the kid who messed up being the one to come and actually confess to mommy, rather than one of the siblings coming to tattle).

We actually don't know that Red/Grym gave K the bracelet. What we do know is that Nadia knows that the bracelet is there, and explains it to K, so whoever planted it is working with Nadia, and considering she is later given one either a) it's DeKock tech, or b) it's Callista tech... who of course she's working for. We have no evidence that anyone at KG (besides Delilah) even knows the bracelet tech even exists. While Red/Grym does seem like the strongest suspect planter, don't forget that Nadia and Delilah are working together, and Nadia is able to thwart the Joy Facility's security, as is constantly aware of where Delilah is in the facility, so the stronger case is actually that Delilah planted it after Nadia unlocked the door, snuck back out, met Chanel, and then the pair greet K a good morning. IF Red/Grym planted the bracelet, then she got it from C, who ordered Red/Grym to plant it, and then C informed Nadia that K had it.

Play again and closely follow scenes with 'Patricia conversation with grym in the vault about kane', scene with patricia veronica and alessa near the pool, temple scene conversation, scene with alessa and patricia in Ep7 !!
Anyway, we don't know anything for sure .. that is what we thinking !

I did, where do you think I got the evidence that Pat DISOBEYS Grym who explicitly orders her to do things "by the book", whereas Pat says TO HERSELF that she followed all of Alessandra's orders. She CANNOT both be disobeying Grym's orders to "be fair" aka "don't cheat" AND say that she did everything Alessandra wanted, UNLESS Grym and Alessandra are SEPARATE people. Therefore, the orders were different, OR Alessandra told her to disobey Grym, and Pat chose to obey Alessandra instead of obeying Grym. Plus, sororicidal Alessandra is thereby cheating, and thus gives not a hoot about playing the Gambit fair (though she claims to not be playing at all) so she is DEFINITELY not taking orders from Callista to "ensure the Gambit is played fairly"... of course neither is Veronica, but considering Callista wants the same thing and doesn't punish Veronica when she meets her, it apparently doesn't matter so long as Callista gets what she wants in the end: Olivia as the Gambit Winner.

 

[BurgRoyce]

Which is more likely...

Better use spoilers... some people here are waiting for final to play.

Spoiler

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[Maviarab]

Which is more likely: 1 person buying the same mask/dress/hat/shirt/outfit type but in 2 different colors, because they like both, or 2 different people, unbeknownst to each other, buying near identical masks at completely different times, and the only difference between the 2 is the coloring?

Why do you assume they bought their own masks? Surely much more likely for Callista to 'leave' them in their possession and/or otherwise send them. That is actually far more likely to me and more in line with how Callista acts than the other. You see, now you're just coming up with baseless theories to fit your narrative with no evidence (much like saying Olivia doesn't know anything when it's stated quite clearly, in dialogue, that she does by her thoughts).

You seem to be getting more excitable (and rather fantastical, so now you think Nadia or Deliliah was wearing Veronica's mask and left the bracelet? Jeesh man, whatever you're smoking, lay off it a while)...so, if true...show proof (screenshot, whatever) behind a spoiler tag. Otherwise, you're assumptions are just that, as are mine and others. Otherwise, please stop stating opinions and assumptions as facts.

 

[YuNobi1]

Better use spoilers... some people here are waiting for final to play.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Why do you assume they bought their own masks? Surely much more likely for Callista to 'leave' them in their possession and/or otherwise send them. That is actually far more likely to me and more in line with how Callista acts than the other. You see, now you're just coming up with baseless theories to fit your narrative with no evidence (much like saying Olivia doesn't know anything when it's stated quite clearly, in dialogue, that she does by her thoughts).

You seem to be getting more excitable (and rather fantastical, so now you think Nadia or Deliliah was wearing Veronica's mask and left the bracelet? Jeesh man, whatever you're smoking, lay off it a while)...so, if true...show proof (screenshot, whatever) behind a spoiler tag. Otherwise, you're assumptions are just that, as are mine and others. Otherwise, please stop stating opinions and assumptions as facts.

Ep. 3: The Temple - Grym created the costume

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Hacker, Viper, and Bracelet Holder

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Analysis of Ep. 3-4 events

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Olivia doesn't know anything when it's stated quite clearly, in dialogue, that she does by her thoughts

Where? Please share the screenshots.

 

[Stan5851]

The definition of evil is subjective though. For some, the sex scene with Phoebe is evil, while others have no problem with it. Same goes for torture/murder scenes. It can even feel right, not evil, if we think the victim deserved such harsh treatment. So such polls are very inaccurate by their nature, unless specific examples of what Tess considers 'evil' are presented clearly.

“Evil is Evil. Lesser, greater, middling… Makes no difference. The degree is arbitary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another… I’d rather not choose at all.”

The Witcher Heralt of Rivia.

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[MilesEdgeworth]

NO SPOILERS (Ep. 1-7 info only): Why Alessandra CANNOT be Grym
Ep. 2 opens with Grym ordering Patricia to oversee K's training, but to "do things by the book," but Pat disobeys this order by first offering K the option to cheat (deal), and later following through by eliminating/mitigating the punishment, and offering sex. In Ep. 7, Pat says that she did everything A told her to do with K in the prison, but the deal/cheating was AGAINST Grym's orders, so if she did those things under A's orders, while disobeying Grym, then A cannot be Grym. Furthermore, her loyalty to A is actually no secret, as A brags to V about Pat's loyalty to her, and that Pat is "under control".

As for Pat listening to V, she's already doing that: she reports to V (while laying prostrate under V's heels) in Ep. 3, right in front of A, immediately before A confesses that Pat is under control, and following the airplane scene. Like all staff at KG, Pat has multiple (and often conflicting) loyalties: E, A, V, Kiyomi, and Grym. E rescued/raised her, A has "whipped" her, V was her boss in the prisons, and now again at the Joy Facility, with Kiyomi as her supervisor, so Grym is either just an additional loyalty on the pile, or one that's already there (A OR V).

Spoiler: About Grym (Ep. 8 spoilers)

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Tess herself, in this thread, said that the two masked figures were two different people, so unless you're saying Tess is wrong, they're not both Veronica. I'll post the quote when I find it.
Ok she didn't say it, but she implied it when asking this when we were debating who the masked figure was a couple years ago

So many smart people on this thread! Wow! Only thing I will add (I did before) is are the ninja outfits different during the game scenes? Do the conversations feel the same in how the Gambit Queen speaks?

Veronica met her twice in the story, with or without the two masked meetings [/Spoiler]
Pat obviously lied because she had a secret deal with Kane. That's not a point for or against anybody

 

[Maviarab]

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Ep. 3: The Temple - Grym created the costume

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Hacker, Viper, and Bracelet Holder

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Analysis of Ep. 3-4 events

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None of which proves anything you're saying...

Where? Please share the screenshots.

As for Olivia, next time I get to it again I'll take one for you (unless someone has it to hand, I don't as don't keep random saves or screenshots but will add it to this post later)..but it is literally outside the lift to the zoo with Kane, Veronica and Dominique. Really not sure how you have missed this...and not the only time she has inner thoughts revealing herself.

Edit: Added the images:

Spoiler: Well well, well...

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[YuNobi1]

Pat obviously lied because she had a secret deal with Kane. That's not a point for or against anybody[/Ispoiler]

That's what I'm saying: Pat lied to Grym, her statement about following Alessandra's orders in the prison was to herself, so is she lying to herself AND Grym, or honest with her own thoughts, and chose to follow Alessandra instead of Grym. Alessandra knows what happened in the prison, and later applauds Pat for carrying out her orders. Outside of the deal, Pat doesn't do anything special with Kane that she doesn't do to Zach and the other prisoners, so the deal was Alessandra's orders.

None of which proves anything you're saying...

As for Olivia, next time I get to it again I'll take one for you (unless someone has it to hand, I don't as don't keep random saves or screenshots but will add it to this post later)..but it is literally outside the lift to the zoo with Kane, Veronica and Dominique. Really not sure how you have missed this...and not the only time she has inner thoughts revealing herself.

Evil Olivia. She doesn't get to see the zoo. The only other time she comments on her training in hindsight is AFTER she self-reflects following her discovery that she is a Karlsson, whereas the flashbacks she is ignorantly frustrated with how much Callista is pushing her.